Red Shirts Mimic Village Tactics Used By Rebels: Thai Opinion

[webfact]

EDITORIAL

Red shirts mimic village tactics used by rebels

The Nation

The establishment of 'red villages' in the rural North and Northeast could benefit ordinary people, but only if the sinister undercurrent is checked

It is nothing unusual to see politicians mobilising the mass of their supporters to help them realise their political goals, especially during the political campaign seasons. In the past, politicians might have seen their mass support as the base for providing them with votes only. But the idea of establishing a mass of supporters has been adapted to changing circumstances. Now, political supporters are not only being used to provide votes. On certain occasions we are now seeing these people being adapted into a force for fighting against or resisting opposition groups or even troops and police.

Thailand has seen movements of people from different political factions over the past few years, starting with the rise of the yellow shirts, formed to protest against former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra. Later, the red shirts were formed to support Thaksin and oppose the yellow shirts. The red shirts say their movement was formed to protest against the 2006 coup, which ousted Thaksin and sent him into exile.

Now the red-shirt movement has evolved further. Red-shirt leaders have set up red-shirt villages. So far, over 4,000 villages around the country have declared themselves "red".

Red-shirt leaders claim that the red-shirt villages were set up to promote the democratic system. This village strategy has reminded us of the communist strategy of besieging cities from without, a tactic that was used by the communists 30 or 40 years ago in Indochina. The red-shirt leaders have apparently wanted to use these villages to bolster their mass support and prepare their people to be ready to support their political causes.

The formation of these red villages may reflect an increasing political awareness among rural people over which side they prefer to identify themselves with. But it is unclear what is the ultimate goal of the leaders, especially from the perspective of those with opposing views from them.

The red-shirt leaders claim the formation of these villages is to support democracy. Nonetheless, this "army" of red-shirt villages can be seen as a threat once their forces have been mobilised. At times, these people have resorted to violence and used the excuse of upholding democracy, as a series of recent confrontations between people with opposing political views in Thailand has shown.

In the meantime, the red-shirt leaders keep on expanding the base of their mass support. Red-shirt villages have now been grouped into red-shirt districts. Earlier this month, red-shirt leader Jatuporn Promphan chaired the opening of the first red-shirt district in Udon Thani's Prachak Silpakhom district. Red-shirt villages have been established long before the establishment of red-shirt districts.

Phetchasak Kittidussadeekul, president of Red-Shirt Villages of Thailand, said: "Red-shirt villages are the heart of the campaign to fight for the return of democracy for the people. We will increase the number of red-shirt villages from dozens to hundreds and to thousands, and eventually to hundreds of thousands. Each red-shirt village will have a sign with picture of [former prime minister] Thaksin Shinawatra. Each sign will be painted red."

Jatuporn said: "Now, the red-shirt villages for democracy are the main base of the people who fight to defend democracy." He boasted that the establishment of red-shirt bases and the ambitious plan was blessed by leaders in Bangkok, while the government, which is on the same side as them, signalled the go-ahead.

This red-shirt mass support could be a valuable force for the country but only if these villages manage to turn their power into constructive energy. There could be positive benefits for the country if these villagers receive honest support from their leaders to enhance their capacity and improve their wellbeing through knowledge and skills, and if they can maximise the use of their farmland and their traditional wisdom. In addition, it would be a positive development if these villages are instilled with the desire to strengthen their communities in a sustainable, self-reliant manner.

But this could also be very dangerous for the country if the red-shirt leaders set up these villages simply to prepare their army of supporters to help them fulfil their political objectives. If they feed their supporters with misleading information in order to create division in society, without preparing to deal with the longer-term psychological impact on the masses, this could be perilous indeed.

-- The Nation 2011-10-15

[dominique355]

As long as the Red Shirts cannot accept a different opinion in their own villages, there will never be true democracy.

[schuimpje]

1318642709[/url]' post='4766050']

As long as the Red Shirts cannot accept a different opinion in their own villages, there will never be true democracy.

And if that is not the whole point in one sentence, I don't know what is...

[OzMick]

"Red-shirt villages are the heart of the campaign to fight for the return of democracy for the people............. Each red-shirt village will have a sign with picture of .... Thaksin."

The scary part is that this idiot doesn't understand the contradiction in these 2 statements. Someone should tell him that there was an election 3 months ago - but maybe that's not what he means when he talks of "democracy".

[wintermute]

The headline should read "Bangkokian fears rural political advocacy because it threatens his political base."

That's all this is. This talk of subverting democracy is ridiculous when both sides do exactly the same thing. One does it through buy voting the other does it through military force.

[rixalex]

The headline should read "Bangkokian fears rural political advocacy because it threatens his political base."

What a bizarre concept of political advocacy you have.

[OzMick]

The headline should read "Bangkokian fears rural political advocacy because it threatens his political base."

That's all this is. This talk of subverting democracy is ridiculous when both sides do exactly the same thing. One does it through buy voting the other does it through military force.

PTP is free to campaign in any part of Thailand without harassment by the military. Would you claim the same freedom to campaign by other parties in red villages?

[Jawnie]

Another "Fear and Loathing" editorial from The Nation regarding Red Shirts, Taksin, et al.

In a democracy, citizens have a right to assembly and to associate with whomever they wish. If Thailand now has a democracy, or at least espousing democratic ideals, then all citizens have these rights. It's just too bad for those who don't like it. Elections, democracy, etc., have consequences. But, I say IF Thailand has a democracy, because it is not clear that enoughThais understand this.

This editorial is just one more self-serving, 'the people be damned," poor sport, bad loser, cry baby, so-on-and-so-forth diatribes from The Nation.

[GazR]

Greater transparency and accountablity would move things in a positive direction, but instead they talk about loyalty and democracy and Thaksin the Greedy in the same breath.

[xkmasada]

As long as the Red Shirts cannot accept a different opinion in their own villages, there will never be true democracy.

And we'll just have to get by with letting the Army chose who is in charge.

[tlansford]

Another "Fear and Loathing" editorial from The Nation regarding Red Shirts, Taksin, et al.

In a democracy, citizens have a right to assembly and to associate with whomever they wish. If Thailand now has a democracy, or at least espousing democratic ideals, then all citizens have these rights. It's just too bad for those who don't like it. Elections, democracy, etc., have consequences. But, I say IF Thailand has a democracy, because it is not clear that enoughThais understand this.

This editorial is just one more self-serving, 'the people be damned," poor sport, bad loser, cry baby, so-on-and-so-forth diatribes from The Nation.

Hi Jawnie, I find The Nation is well versed in spreading FUD. But actually I am surprised by this editorial, because the editor at least tries to put forth one positive suggestion in the paragraph

This red-shirt mass support could be a valuable force for the country but only if these villages manage to turn their power into constructive energy. There could be positive benefits for the country if these villagers receive honest support from their leaders to enhance their capacity and improve their wellbeing through knowledge and skills, and if they can maximise the use of their farmland and their traditional wisdom. In addition, it would be a positive development if these villages are instilled with the desire to strengthen their communities in a sustainable, self-reliant manner.

The Nation usually limits itself to tearing-down, criticizing, and fear-mongering (all of which are well-represented in this editorial) but to actually propose a positive action as they did here regarding the "valuable force" comment is rare for them...

[whybother]

Another "Fear and Loathing" editorial from The Nation regarding Red Shirts, Taksin, et al.

In a democracy, citizens have a right to assembly and to associate with whomever they wish. If Thailand now has a democracy, or at least espousing democratic ideals, then all citizens have these rights. It's just too bad for those who don't like it. Elections, democracy, etc., have consequences. But, I say IF Thailand has a democracy, because it is not clear that enoughThais understand this.

This editorial is just one more self-serving, 'the people be damned," poor sport, bad loser, cry baby, so-on-and-so-forth diatribes from The Nation.

No one is stopping the people in these villages from assembly or association. The villages don't need to be labelled to allow them to do that.

[inquisitive]

It is possible to be intolerant and right, but it is not possible to be intolerant and a democracy.

Red shirt villages are a living oxymoron the same as "jumbo shrimp" and "military intelligence" are verbal oxymorons. This government sactioned and increasing polarization is scary. I fear for the country and I fear for the very people whose niavete is being used to enslave themselves.

This can only happen because there's a huge difference between what is being said and what is being done. If I could rely on the words alone, I, too would be a staunch Red Shirt. But I have been here long enough to see the actions. I was there when things happened, and I am now listening to the reports of those events and I can see that there is very little connection. The Red Shirt leaders talk a good story, but they live a different one.

I have a relative who joined the red shirt Bangkok rallies. He was politically disinterested, but temporarily unemployed due to the season. He planned on taking the free bus to Bangkok, spending a few days having a good time, and making some money. What could be wrong with that? Weeks later when he asked for his identity card back so he could go home to his family, he was told that if he failed to show up for his daily pay in the evening, his family would all be killed. The red leaders were convincing enough that my relative continued with them and was still there when the army arrived. The leaders, however, were not.

Talk is cheap, and the political leaders evidently feel the gullible are worth about the same. Organizing into permanent polarized settlements is a dangerous escalation.

[tlansford]

The headline should read "Bangkokian fears rural political advocacy because it threatens his political base."

That's all this is. This talk of subverting democracy is ridiculous when both sides do exactly the same thing. One does it through buy voting the other does it through military force.

PTP is free to campaign in any part of Thailand without harassment by the military. Would you claim the same freedom to campaign by other parties in red villages?

without harassement ?

General Prayut Chan-O-Cha, a fervent royalist, made a surprise appearance on army-run TV channels a few weeks before the polls to call on voters to choose "good people" and "make our country and our monarchy safe"."If you allow a repeat of the same election pattern, then we will always get the same result," he added.

Just one tame example from many pre-election veiled threats.

from the AFP before the election

[inquisitive]

As long as the Red Shirts cannot accept a different opinion in their own villages, there will never be true democracy.

And we'll just have to get by with letting the Army chose who is in charge.

xkmasada, you just don't get it, do you? NOBODY except yourself should be in charge of your opinion. If you believe that the Army should not pressure you into a poitical preference, then you must also reject that a red shirt leader, or even Santa Claus should do so. NOBODY. And what's more, you should be able to change your opinion without having to also change your residence. Or do you disagree?

[whybother]

without harassement ?

General Prayut Chan-O-Cha, a fervent royalist, made a surprise appearance on army-run TV channels a few weeks before the polls to call on voters to choose "good people" and "make our country and our monarchy safe"."If you allow a repeat of the same election pattern, then we will always get the same result," he added.

Just one tame example from many pre-election veiled threats.

from the AFP before the election

Were PTP campaigners harassed by the army?

[inquisitive]

The headline should read "Bangkokian fears rural political advocacy because it threatens his political base."

That's all this is. This talk of subverting democracy is ridiculous when both sides do exactly the same thing. One does it through buy voting the other does it through military force.

PTP is free to campaign in any part of Thailand without harassment by the military. Would you claim the same freedom to campaign by other parties in red villages?

without harassement ?

General Prayut Chan-O-Cha, a fervent royalist, made a surprise appearance on army-run TV channels a few weeks before the polls to call on voters to choose "good people" and "make our country and our monarchy safe"."If you allow a repeat of the same election pattern, then we will always get the same result," he added.

Just one tame example from many pre-election veiled threats.

from the AFP before the election

I guess I'm pretty dense. It appears to me that the "veiled threat" was not only NOT veiled, but not a threat. It was a pretty straightforward observation. Look, if you do something the same way twenty times and always get the same result, then it's a pretty good bet that if you do it the same way the next time you'll get the same result. You disagree?

So where's the threat in your quote? And how can you interpret the comment to be anti-democratic? Since you seem to think that things were being dominated at the time by the "bad guys" which in your opinion apparently included the general, then wouldn't you take this as an admonition to vote against the existing system? Isn't this a call for change, and not for maintaining the status-quo that you decry?

Maybe you should read it again. Pay particular attention and look for parts that say to use force or anything but a peaceful, democratic vote to get whatever it is that you are seeking. And if you find such references, maybe you can bring them up to the board, because I for one completely missed them.

[rixalex]

It is possible to be intolerant and right, but it is not possible to be intolerant and a democracy.

Red shirt villages are a living oxymoron the same as "jumbo shrimp" and "military intelligence" are verbal oxymorons. This government sactioned and increasing polarization is scary. I fear for the country and I fear for the very people whose niavete is being used to enslave themselves.

This can only happen because there's a huge difference between what is being said and what is being done. If I could rely on the words alone, I, too would be a staunch Red Shirt. But I have been here long enough to see the actions. I was there when things happened, and I am now listening to the reports of those events and I can see that there is very little connection. The Red Shirt leaders talk a good story, but they live a different one.

I have a relative who joined the red shirt Bangkok rallies. He was politically disinterested, but temporarily unemployed due to the season. He planned on taking the free bus to Bangkok, spending a few days having a good time, and making some money. What could be wrong with that? Weeks later when he asked for his identity card back so he could go home to his family, he was told that if he failed to show up for his daily pay in the evening, his family would all be killed. The red leaders were convincing enough that my relative continued with them and was still there when the army arrived. The leaders, however, were not.

Talk is cheap, and the political leaders evidently feel the gullible are worth about the same. Organizing into permanent polarized settlements is a dangerous escalation.

Thanks for that post. This paragraph really resonates for me:

This can only happen because there's a huge difference between what is being said and what is being done. If I could rely on the words alone, I, too would be a staunch Red Shirt. But I have been here long enough to see the actions. I was there when things happened, and I am now listening to the reports of those events and I can see that there is very little connection. The Red Shirt leaders talk a good story, but they live a different one.

[nong38]

Red Shirt villages dont seem to me to be helping in any way "reconciliation." It is a devisive move. Shores up the Reds districts by virtually saying if you are not Red you are not welcome, thats how I interpret it, you may see it differently and it is true what has also been said that as long as the Reds get their way then democracy is wonderful, if not well its not worth a monkeys w--k and we dont have time to wait for the next election!

Until the Reds understand about elections. winning/losing and what is best for Thailand there will also be divisions. The divisions also need to be addresssed by other parties too.

It was good to see differences put to one side recently with Abhisit and Yinglook working together with the flood situation, lets hope they both learn something.

Edited October 15, 2011 by nong38

[serenitynow]

The headline should read "Bangkokian fears rural political advocacy because it threatens his political base."

That's all this is. This talk of subverting democracy is ridiculous when both sides do exactly the same thing. One does it through buy voting the other does it through military force.

PTP is free to campaign in any part of Thailand without harassment by the military. Would you claim the same freedom to campaign by other parties in red villages?

without harassement ?

General Prayut Chan-O-Cha, a fervent royalist, made a surprise appearance on army-run TV channels a few weeks before the polls to call on voters to choose "good people" and "make our country and our monarchy safe"."If you allow a repeat of the same election pattern, then we will always get the same result," he added.

Just one tame example from many pre-election veiled threats.

from the AFP before the election

You may find a Google of "Abhisit cancels Chiang Mai visit Chiang Mai 51" illuminating. Half of the country is a Democrat "no go" area because of threats of violence. PTP is not hampered in the same way because the opposition party doesn't organize violent demonstrations against them.

[thaikahuna]

Red Shirt Philosophy: You are free to campaign anyplace in Thailand for any candidate in Thailand so long as your opinion does not disagree with my preconceived notion of what is right.

Yellow Shirt Philosophy: You are free to campaign anyplace in Thailand for any candidate in Thailand so long as your opinion does not disagree with my preconceived notion of what is right.

All other Shirt Philosophy: You are free to campaign anyplace in Thailand for any candidate in Thailand so long as your opinion does not disagree with my preconceived notion of what is right.

Seems pretty straight-forward to me....

[h90]

As long as the Red Shirts cannot accept a different opinion in their own villages, there will never be true democracy.

And we'll just have to get by with letting the Army chose who is in charge.

Which is for sure better than what Thaksin chooses

[jayboy]

I have a relative who joined the red shirt Bangkok rallies. He was politically disinterested, but temporarily unemployed due to the season. He planned on taking the free bus to Bangkok, spending a few days having a good time, and making some money. What could be wrong with that? Weeks later when he asked for his identity card back so he could go home to his family, he was told that if he failed to show up for his daily pay in the evening, his family would all be killed.

If what you say is true the situation would have been duplicated with many examples.However this is the first time I have heard of this kind of threat.I am sceptical (to put it politely).

We have heard other examples on this forum of strangely negative stories told to foreigners by their "red relatives".On examination they turned out to be untrue.

[drdoom6996]

Red Shirt Philosophy: You are free to campaign anyplace in Thailand for any candidate in Thailand so long as your opinion does not disagree with my preconceived notion of what is right.

Yellow Shirt Philosophy: You are free to campaign anyplace in Thailand for any candidate in Thailand so long as your opinion does not disagree with my preconceived notion of what is right.

All other Shirt Philosophy: You are free to campaign anyplace in Thailand for any candidate in Thailand so long as your opinion does not disagree with my preconceived notion of what is right.

Seems pretty straight-forward to me....

That says it all in a nutshell.

[rixalex]

I have a relative who joined the red shirt Bangkok rallies. He was politically disinterested, but temporarily unemployed due to the season. He planned on taking the free bus to Bangkok, spending a few days having a good time, and making some money. What could be wrong with that? Weeks later when he asked for his identity card back so he could go home to his family, he was told that if he failed to show up for his daily pay in the evening, his family would all be killed.

If what you say is true the situation would have been duplicated with many examples.However this is the first time I have heard of this kind of threat.I am sceptical (to put it politely).

We have heard other examples on this forum of strangely negative stories told to foreigners by their "red relatives".On examination they turned out to be untrue.

I have heard of the threats before. Not of a whole family being killed, but threats nonetheless, implied or otherwise. It's only ever likely to be anecdotal stuff though, and so it goes that some will believe in it being quite plausible, while others will dismiss is as being fabricated lies all part of some smear attempt.

[EarthAlien]

This is one of the most alarming articles I have read recently.

Whereas we can always assume some error or bias in reporting, it's clear that something is brewing and that there's no smoke without fire.

I have been living here with my Thai wife for 6 years and we have kids. We love the lifestyle, the country and the overall pleasant and easy going nature of the Thai people. I hope for the best for this country but articles such as this and the realization that there's an inner core of negative fusion with potentially very volatile outcomes makes me fear for the worst.

Statements such as this one below echo a similar "nationalistic" psyche of Hitleresque Germany 1936-1939 and we all now what the outcome of that mindset and political engineering was.

"Red-shirt villages are the heart of the campaign to fight for the return of democracy for the people. We will increase the number of red-shirt villages from dozens to hundreds and to thousands, and eventually to hundreds of thousands. Each red-shirt village will have a sign with picture of [former prime minister] Thaksin Shinawatra. Each sign will be painted red."

I find myself being increasingly drawn to the absolute necessity to draw up an evacuation plan for an alternate western home base should this go south and turn nasty as I fear it could.

I'm not a coward but I didn't come here to invite trouble in my life nor to raise a family under fear and the need to be constantly watching over shoulder or to be ostracized or marked if not being seen as a red conformist or compatriot.

I really hope I'm just being over cautious and that things will somehow stabilize but if we're not careful this could end up becoming a Vietnam 1960's or Nazi Germany revisited

[jayboy]

I have heard of the threats before. Not of a whole family being killed, but threats nonetheless, implied or otherwise. It's only ever likely to be anecdotal stuff though, and so it goes that some will believe in it being quite plausible, while others will dismiss is as being fabricated lies all part of some smear attempt.

There's a huge difference between peer pressure (which I can well believe) and the threat to kill a family.

How very useful that it is all "anecdotal stuff" and thus free of any kind of proof requirement.In fact it would be quite straight forward to get to the bottom of this, one way or the other.

Actually I had a Thai friend who participated in the red occupation last year.He was never asked to submit his identity card to the organisers, nor was anyone he knew.So we know that much at least of the original report is suspect.

[animatic]

As long as the Red Shirts cannot accept a different opinion in their own villages, there will never be true democracy.

And if that is not the whole point in one sentence, I don't know what is...

Agreed.

This is the old school 30-60 years past Communist Indoctrination System, being used, yet again, this time undercover of a Democracy façade, and sinister is not the least apt description for it. It's said Thaksin has been talking against it. I suspect he sees his power mechanism is spinning out of his control.

He clearly loves control. Oops T.

Edited October 15, 2011 by animatic

[h90]

As long as the Red Shirts cannot accept a different opinion in their own villages, there will never be true democracy.

And if that is not the whole point in one sentence, I don't know what is...

Agreed. This is the old school old school 30-60 years past Communist indoctrination system,

being used undercover of a Democracy façade, and sinister is not the least apt description for it.

It's said Thaksin has been talking against it. I suspect he sees his power mechanism is spinning out of his control.

He clearly loves control. Oops T.

Even that Democracy facade is old school.

[Lite Beer]

A post bringing the Monarchy into the discussion has been removed.