Foreign Press Criticizes Thai Govt Flood Management

[tlansford]

What business is it of the foreign press to criticize? Isn't this just typical of interference, something that their governments like to do? They should just learn to mind their own business.

Bakseedaa, on 7 minutes ago, said:

Its VERY easy to explain, Although this new government knew well in advance about the looming potental of a huge flood this year, there was something much more important to them... that was finding a way to bring back their Golden Idol, Mr Thaksin... They care about 2 things... bringing the Daddy Mafia home and lining their pockets with tax payers moneys... Water, what water...? And really, which person in government gives a Dam.......

There we go again. Nothing to contribute other than to just criticize the government endlessly, like a broken record. Have you no other thoughts in that head of yours other than to post one criticism after another? It's one thing to state your opinion, as you probably live here (though that opinion is worth less than zero) but quite another to just post one poisonous post after another.

Agree with you on that one, and to add a note about the accuracy as well.

There were some experts who stated that the flooding had been aggravated (not caused, but aggravated) by not releasing enough water from the dams earlier in the season.

But as my memory serves me, the flooding was well underway when the current govt actually took office...

So perhaps his criticism should be reserved for the previous govt which was preoccupied with not losing yet another election???

BTW, for this conversation, I was in the flooding in Surat Thani last March, and the flooding I experienced was a direct result of poor land-management. This is a long-term issue that needs to be seriously addressed in Thailand. (IMO)

[Nisa]

I agree with "drdoom6996" back in August when we were flooded in Chiang Mai they said that there was so much water Bangkok will flood in a month or so, did anyone listen?. Of course not that would have required someone to do some PLANNING and we all know that word does not exist in Thailand.

What planning other then placing sandbags can be done in 3 weeks to prevent flooding?

Did Bangkok flood in August when the water came down from Chaing Mai?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Just speaking as one, I don't blame the current government chiefly for causing the flooding. But I do blame them for a haphazard, late and befuddled response to the flooding as it developed and spread from the north down toward Bangkok. Not to mention elements of simple stupidity as reflected in ridiculous measures like the boats on the river plan.

Likewise, there's valid points made above about the lack of competent urban planning and environmental impact considerations in development being a long-term pervasive failing going back many years....

Of course, it's equally true that a lot of the same people currently running the country have been in previous versions of Thai governments going back many years. Not Yingluck personally, but certainly many among her senior aides/ministers, and then a certain relative who had a fair amount of influence over prior Thai governments for quite a few years.

There's plenty of blame to go around for what led to the current debacle, and it's not limited to any one political party or faction. It's a systemic failure. Thinking ahead and considering the future consequences of official actions doesn't seem to be a particularly strong suit here.

[ParadiseLost]

I would hardly think the international press has any interest outside each of their own government's current disaster - a flood of debt.

Looking at their own bunglings and mismanagement in the face of many warning signs over the past few decades, they have succeeded in losing their own battle.

Every week a new expert opinion arises but in the end nobody actually knows what to do.

Same same but different?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Actually, the current Thai government's response to this current flooding reminds me a lot of the U.S. federal government's unfortunate and failed response to Hurricane Katrina and the flooding of New Orleans and that broader region.

In both cases, the governments had plenty of advance notice that a big problem was heading their way. They each had time to mobilize and prepare to respond. And in both cases, they utterly failed to respond in either a timely or effective manner.

One notable different, though, might be that Katrina was really the exception to what otherwise has been a pretty decent U.S. track record of responding to major natural disasters. I don't have enough length of history here to judge whether the Thai government's response this time around has been the exception or in keeping with past performance.

[Bkkorupcountry]

I would hardly think the international press has any interest outside each of their own government's current disaster - a flood of debt.

Looking at their own bunglings and mismanagement in the face of many warning signs over the past few decades, they have succeeded in losing their own battle.

Every week a new expert opinion arises but in the end nobody actually knows what to do.

Same same but different?

+1

[djlest]

What planning>? Are you Thai by any chance?

1.Contacting every single dam and reservoir and getting exact measurements on how much water is stored and what capacity all damns are now at.

2.Contacting the MET to get past present and next 3 weeks predicted rain fall

3.Release over flow waters from the central and southern regions of Bangkok and isarn first (2 weeks prior)

before releasing northern dams to compensate and level out the rest.

4. Rinse and repeat ensuring all Dams are NEVER at full capacity and always 70% below FULL Capacity

If all dams are never over 70% capacity at any time, with a little brains and the ability to communicate... Many lives would not have been cost!

p.s. Government education system to ensure EVERYONE has the chance to learn how to SWIM in schools...

Fact 95% of thais cannot swim, or are too lazy to bother learning..

[OzMick]

Funny, I always thought that PR management was the PTP's forte but given the absence of a true leader you'll always end up like this during a crisis. I can imagine the Thai FM and Commerce Ministers having their hands full in the months to come explaining to Japanese investors what went wrong.

I presume that the Japanese investers carefully looked into their chosen firms decision on where to build their manufacturing bases - I think it's called risk management isn't it? Hopefully they didn't use the same judgement as those investing in their home grown nuclear industry.

Do you really think drawing a comparison between Thai flooding, which recurs like a metronome, and an 8.9 earthquake and subsequent tsunami, is reasonable, or adds to the discussion?

Well, it might be a distraction to the discussion, but, in this case, it is a reasonable comparison.

In the last 500 years, Japan has had 16 (now 17) tsunami's greater than 10 meters in height. That's an average of every 30 years. The disaster in the nuclear plant was almost guaranteed to take place as they had a 5m protection wall and all of the back-up / redundant power generators were underground and were, of course, flooded and non-operational when the mainline power went out. No power, no cooling, melt-down.

Japan was a terrible disaster that was completely avoidable if there had been the proper planning for the site.

Edited to add, the comparison to Thailand is pretty clear - years of poor land/water management are going to have consequences, too.

The earthquake in Japan was the largest ever to strike that country, with an energy release about 12 times as large as the next largest, which was in 1707. That energy release was close offshore and caused a tsunami of huge proportions, with a wave height of up to 40.5 m. Your 10m tsunami every 30 years turns into crap when you consider the plant is 10m above sea level with a 5.7 m flood wall - how often do 16m tsunamis hit Japan?

Yet you see that as a reasonable comparison to a flood caused by 3 TD, when 2 is not unusual, water that has been running downhill for months, and preventative measures like cleaning canals that don't even start until inundation is inevitable.

You, sir, have a very strange mind. Goodbye.

[wpcoe]

..the foreign press has reported that most of the flood water has already flown into the Gulf of Thailand.

I guess I missed a press release or two. I expected it to flow to the Gulf, not fly.

The U.S Embassy in Thailand has advised its citizens to evacuate within a 12 kilometer radius around the capital and prepare at least 3 days supply of food and drinking water until the situation improves.

What the 15-Oct-2011 e-mail from the Bangkok Embassy ACS to US citizens registered with them actually said was:

"As a purely precautionary measure, U.S. citizens assigned to the Embassy

who live approximately 12 kilometers north of central Bangkok in Nichida

Thani have the option of relocating for a few days to central Bangkok

until the anticipated peak flood period subsides, should they wish to do

so."

In other words, Embassy staff who live in Nichida, had an option to relocate. The quote from the OP sounds like the US Embassy advised all American citizens within 12 km of Bangkok to evacuate. And, no mention about boiling water. I wonder if I missed an alarming e-mail from ACS?

(ACS = American Citizen Services)

[NanLaew]

BTW, for this conversation, I was in the flooding in Surat Thani last March, and the flooding I experienced was a direct result of poor land-management. This is a long-term issue that needs to be seriously addressed in Thailand. (IMO)

The Surat Thani flooding in March was a direct result of prolonged heavy and unseasonable downpours.

The northern and central Thailand flooding was a direct result of three consecutive regional tropical storm developments.

The Bangkok flooding is... som nam naa.

[osiboy]

SO.........does anyone here think thailand should build a nuclear power plant as they plan to do ?

[houseinbkk]

I agree with "drdoom6996" back in August when we were flooded in Chiang Mai they said that there was so much water Bangkok will flood in a month or so, did anyone listen?. Of course not that would have required someone to do some PLANNING and we all know that word does not exist in Thailand.

What planning other then placing sandbags can be done in 3 weeks to prevent flooding?

Did Bangkok flood in August when the water came down from Chaing Mai?

Are you not aware that you are not meant to answer a question with a question?

[zydeco]

Actually, the current Thai government's response to this current flooding reminds me a lot of the U.S. federal government's unfortunate and failed response to Hurricane Katrina and the flooding of New Orleans and that broader region.

In both cases, the governments had plenty of advance notice that a big problem was heading their way. They each had time to mobilize and prepare to respond. And in both cases, they utterly failed to respond in either a timely or effective manner.

One notable different, though, might be that Katrina was really the exception to what otherwise has been a pretty decent U.S. track record of responding to major natural disasters. I don't have enough length of history here to judge whether the Thai government's response this time around has been the exception or in keeping with past performance.

Disagree. Katrina boiled up in a few days and NO had less than 5 days to prepare. These floods in Thailand have been like a slow moving tsunami that began months ago. That's plenty of time to make contingency plans. And the authorities failed--utterly and completely. BTW, NO not only faces the Gulf of Mexico on the west. It has a massive lake on its north, Lake Pontchartrain, a couple of smaller lakes to its south, and a few more yet smaller lakes to the east, all with the Mississippi running through it. Comparatively speaking, Bangkok is high and dry.

[philw]

What business is it of the foreign press to criticize? Isn't this just typical of interference, something that their governments like to do? They should just learn to mind their own business.

Bakseedaa, on 7 minutes ago, said:

Its VERY easy to explain, Although this new government knew well in advance about the looming potental of a huge flood this year, there was something much more important to them... that was finding a way to bring back their Golden Idol, Mr Thaksin... They care about 2 things... bringing the Daddy Mafia home and lining their pockets with tax payers moneys... Water, what water...? And really, which person in government gives a Dam.......

There we go again. Nothing to contribute other than to just criticize the government endlessly, like a broken record. Have you no other thoughts in that head of yours other than to post one criticism after another? It's one thing to state your opinion, as you probably live here (though that opinion is worth less than zero) but quite another to just post one poisonous post after another.

Agree with you on that one, and to add a note about the accuracy as well.

There were some experts who stated that the flooding had been aggravated (not caused, but aggravated) by not releasing enough water from the dams earlier in the season.

But as my memory serves me, the flooding was well underway when the current govt actually took office...

So perhaps his criticism should be reserved for the previous govt which was preoccupied with not losing yet another election???

BTW, for this conversation, I was in the flooding in Surat Thani last March, and the flooding I experienced was a direct result of poor land-management. This is a long-term issue that needs to be seriously addressed in Thailand. (IMO)

Thanks for calm and sensible comments.

[tlansford]

- snip cayanne -

I presume that the Japanese investers carefully looked into their chosen firms decision on where to build their manufacturing bases - I think it's called risk management isn't it? Hopefully they didn't use the same judgement as those investing in their home grown nuclear industry.

Do you really think drawing a comparison between Thai flooding, which recurs like a metronome, and an 8.9 earthquake and subsequent tsunami, is reasonable, or adds to the discussion?

Well, it might be a distraction to the discussion, but, in this case, it is a reasonable comparison.

In the last 500 years, Japan has had 16 (now 17) tsunami's greater than 10 meters in height. That's an average of every 30 years. The disaster in the nuclear plant was almost guaranteed to take place as they had a 5m protection wall and all of the back-up / redundant power generators were underground and were, of course, flooded and non-operational when the mainline power went out. No power, no cooling, melt-down.

Japan was a terrible disaster that was completely avoidable if there had been the proper planning for the site.

Edited to add, the comparison to Thailand is pretty clear - years of poor land/water management are going to have consequences, too.

The earthquake in Japan was the largest ever to strike that country, with an energy release about 12 times as large as the next largest, which was in 1707. That energy release was close offshore and caused a tsunami of huge proportions, with a wave height of up to 40.5 m. Your 10m tsunami every 30 years turns into crap when you consider the plant is 10m above sea level with a 5.7 m flood wall - how often do 16m tsunamis hit Japan?

Yet you see that as a reasonable comparison to a flood caused by 3 TD, when 2 is not unusual, water that has been running downhill for months, and preventative measures like cleaning canals that don't even start until inundation is inevitable.

You, sir, have a very strange mind. Goodbye.

Re: the comparison - Phiphidon thought it was reasonable and you thought it was not. But a tsunami in Japan is not - as you imply - not a one-off event. When considering a nuclear power installation which will likely be operational for >50 years and need to be secure for much longer than that. A tsunami historically every 30 years is something to prepare for - like floods in Thailand. Phiphidon has a point (IMO) since tsunami's in Japan happen regularly. Yes the wall was 5.7 m and the plant at 10 meters. Do you know how high the tsunami was that hit the plant? Do you recognize the difference between what you said - 10 meter tsunami - and what I actually said - greater than 10 m tsunami means? Do you know how much water flooded the plant?

And do you at least recognize that the point of the comparison is poor human planning and preparation? In the case of Japan, it consists of inadequate protection and placing all the redundant power systems below the plant and not at a higher location to secure operation in the case of a natural disaster. In the case of Thai flooding, you have decades of bad land/water management and urban development as well as some of the planning/preparation items you mentioned. Like the flooding in Thailand, the result of the tsunami was foreseeable. That was the parallel. If you want to say that is not applicable, that's up to you.

BTW, the tsunami that hit the nuclear plant was at 14 meters and the site was inundated with 3-5 m of water. The backup diesel generators were all out of function. The backup seawater cooling system was swept away by the tsunami, and the emergency battery power for the cooling had about an 8 hour supply.

You could be a little more careful throwing around figures like 40.5 meters, etc, since such numbers are certainly impressive, but not accurate nor applicable to the situation presented.

Ozmick, relax a little bit, your consistent stream of derogatory personal comments is tiresome.

Edited October 17, 2011 by tlansford

[tlansford]

SO.........does anyone here think thailand should build a nuclear power plant as they plan to do ?

I think that would be a bad idea.

[h90]

SO.........does anyone here think thailand should build a nuclear power plant as they plan to do ?

I think that would be a bad idea.

very bad

[Deez]

Im in foreign press land, and i can confirm none of the mass media i read or listen to has criticised the Thai govt. over the floods. Almost all foreigners couldnt care less what happens in Thailand.

You can confirm this how? Have you read every foreign newspaper and listened to every broadcast all across the world? Must have alot of free time

[ResX]

If all dams are never over 70% capacity at any time, with a little brains and the ability to communicate... Many lives would not have been cost!

Fact 95% of thais cannot swim, or are too lazy to bother learning..

That was the least you can expect. 70% of full storage capacity is the the maximum storage that shall be allowed for any reservoir just before it is going through the expected flood season. This requirement has to be followed religiously every year since you don't know for sure when the biggest flood that you are waiting for will strike.

[KKvampire]

My home in Ayutthaya under four feet of water for 10 days , along with thousands of others,Its a rented property and now time to leave Ayutthya completely, By which I mean I left 10 days ago with possesions and now no plan to return, and the reason?

There is no plan whatsever from government .local or national to drain any water. It's a stagnant water area with all the water born diseases that come with it, The Ancient Capital will die because of the incompetence of the country's leaders( and I use the noun loosely)

Edited October 17, 2011 by KKvampire

[serenitynow]

???? What an idiotic thing to say in terms of major storms. It is not just Thailand that has seen one of the worst monsoon seasons but also places such as Pakistan, Bangladesh, Cambodia and Philippines.

I guess if it was just 1 big storm they would say it was only one storm, which Thailand faces often, and not abnormally heavy rain falls for the past months.

Edit: I can't even find the NYTIMES article that states this claim ,,, and many articles carry different claims.

http://www.nytimes.c...human-hand.html

http://www.nytimes.c...-next-week.html

http://www.nytimes.c...sia/22thai.html

http://www.nytimes.c...d-over-200.html

Please consider the source (TAN). Its a news source with an agenda.

Like you, I found no such reference either, I suspect they are referring to the first article you linked to. The title and the first 2 paragraphs are contradictory, however, ...

As Thailand Floods Spread, Experts Blame Officials, Not Rains

By SETH MYDANS

Published: October 13, 2011

BANGKOK — As some of Thailand's worst flooding in half a century bears down on Bangkok — submerging cities, industrial parks and ancient temples as it comes — experts in water management are blaming human activity for turning an unusually heavy monsoon season into a disaster.

The main factors, they say, are deforestation, overbuilding in catchment areas, the damming and diversion of natural waterways, urban sprawl, and the filling-in of canals, combined with bad planning. Warnings to the authorities, they say, have been in vain.

So whereas TAN clearly states that the NYTimes is criticizing this govt, the experts in this NYTimes article are criticizing years of Thai land/water management practices.

Like you, I don't find any substance behind TANs claim here.

However, the NYT article's brief critique of Thailand's land/water management issues rings true. BTW, this part of the NYT article is also a self-critique as they quoted Thai officials, among other experts.

Agree with you - looks like this TAN article is - to put it nicely - inaccurate.

Well if this government gets even one thing right I'll be the first to give them credit. How many people have they already killed through their incompetence? How many hundreds more will die from diseases that no news reporter will be on hand to document? How many livliihoods lost? Tell me ONE positive thing this government has accomplished with regard to flood mitigation or relief. Just one.

I see picture after picture like this one:

It's every man, woman child and granny for themselves out there. It's <snip> heart wrenching. You ever see a picture with government agencies helping these people? Anyone seen a policeman in the past 2 weeks?

Edited October 17, 2011 by metisdead
Expletive removed.

[KKvampire]

http://www.thamai.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/wpid-DSC0650.jpg

Bangkok to become Venice of Asia

[tlansford]

???? What an idiotic thing to say in terms of major storms. It is not just Thailand that has seen one of the worst monsoon seasons but also places such as Pakistan, Bangladesh, Cambodia and Philippines.

I guess if it was just 1 big storm they would say it was only one storm, which Thailand faces often, and not abnormally heavy rain falls for the past months.

Edit: I can't even find the NYTIMES article that states this claim ,,, and many articles carry different claims.

http://www.nytimes.c...human-hand.html

http://www.nytimes.c...-next-week.html

http://www.nytimes.c...sia/22thai.html

http://www.nytimes.c...d-over-200.html

Please consider the source (TAN). Its a news source with an agenda.

Like you, I found no such reference either, I suspect they are referring to the first article you linked to. The title and the first 2 paragraphs are contradictory, however, ...

As Thailand Floods Spread, Experts Blame Officials, Not Rains

By SETH MYDANS

Published: October 13, 2011

BANGKOK — As some of Thailand's worst flooding in half a century bears down on Bangkok — submerging cities, industrial parks and ancient temples as it comes — experts in water management are blaming human activity for turning an unusually heavy monsoon season into a disaster.

The main factors, they say, are deforestation, overbuilding in catchment areas, the damming and diversion of natural waterways, urban sprawl, and the filling-in of canals, combined with bad planning. Warnings to the authorities, they say, have been in vain.

So whereas TAN clearly states that the NYTimes is criticizing this govt, the experts in this NYTimes article are criticizing years of Thai land/water management practices.

Like you, I don't find any substance behind TANs claim here.

However, the NYT article's brief critique of Thailand's land/water management issues rings true. BTW, this part of the NYT article is also a self-critique as they quoted Thai officials, among other experts.

Agree with you - looks like this TAN article is - to put it nicely - inaccurate.

Well if this government gets even one thing right I'll be the first to give them credit. How many people have they already killed through their incompetence? How many hundreds more will die from diseases that no news reporter will be on hand to document? How many livliihoods lost? Tell me ONE positive thing this government has accomplished with regard to flood mitigation or relief. Just one.

I see picture after picture like this one:

It's every man, woman child and granny for themselves out there. It's <snip> heart wrenching. You ever see a picture with government agencies helping these people? Anyone seen a policeman in the past 2 weeks?

SerenityNow, Are you in a flood area, btw? Where I've been (this time, I'm not counting last March) there's been flooding but not the disaster that is Ayuttaya and similar areas.

Re: this thread - Saying that TAN is incorrectly reporting what the foreign press is reporting is (of course) NOT the same thing as saying that the gov't is doing a good job on the flood efforts.

Re: victims - I've seen that some posters are in affected areas. For them and for all of those flooded, I hope that they recover as well as possible. Where I was in March, we were flooded and need to clean up, but it was over pretty fast and we were lucky to have minimal damage. The idea that there are nearly 300 deaths due to the flooding is terrible and incredible... and that is after the flooding in the south earlier (I don't recall how many deaths there were this spring).

Re: volunteering - BTW, does anyone have information on where people (esp. Thai) from outside the flooded areas can call in order to learn how/where to volunteer, for example in Ayuttaya?

[bertus]

I would tend to agree with the NY Times article although in general I despise their biased news. Look at the Chao Praya river in Bangkok. It has a tiny little cement wall about 1 foot high where I stay. It is preposterous. It almost floods due to high tide alone! The city is only 2m above sea level and sinking a cm or something every year.

They obviously need a several meter embankment on each side of the river. And not to mention there is no bike path or walking path on either side of the river?! Just whatever business happens to border the river built to the cement wall. It is a preposterous level of No Planning. They need a several meter embankment, 50 meters or so of trees and grass and a bike path. Even Laos can do that. The planning here is worse than mismanagement it is #@ complete as appropriate.

[andrewdrummond]

Im in foreign press land, and i can confirm none of the mass media i read or listen to has criticised the Thai govt. over the floods. Almost all foreigners couldnt care less what happens in Thailand.

Agreed - I'm in the UK right now and BBC has only just started mentioning the Thai floods for the first time, due no doubt to the tabloid headline opportunity of "evacuation orders" involving Bangkok.

It's a shame one of their junket-loving SE Asia correspondents didn't start covering the story from when Chiang Mai got drowned ... after all, CM only has 26,000 westerners living and working in the province - almost a third of them are Brits, which should have concerned the BRITISH Broadcasting Corp's "news hounds".

Actually its has been on BBC World quite a bit. This sort of stuff only hits the domestic news when there has been a crocodile scare and there were moving pictures of crocodiles. There were yesterday put out by APTV. Dont think BBC give their Bangkok correpondent many junkets. more's the pity.

[IsaanUSA]

What planning>? Are you Thai by any chance?

1.Contacting every single dam and reservoir and getting exact measurements on how much water is stored and what capacity all damns are now at.

2.Contacting the MET to get past present and next 3 weeks predicted rain fall

3.Release over flow waters from the central and southern regions of Bangkok and isarn first (2 weeks prior)

before releasing northern dams to compensate and level out the rest.

4. Rinse and repeat ensuring all Dams are NEVER at full capacity and always 70% below FULL Capacity

If all dams are never over 70% capacity at any time, with a little brains and the ability to communicate... Many lives would not have been cost!

p.s. Government education system to ensure EVERYONE has the chance to learn how to SWIM in schools...

Fact 95% of thais cannot swim, or are too lazy to bother learning..

This would take longer than 3 weeks to happen. The flooding in the United States this year along the major rivers is a prime example of dam mis-management, heavy rains, and subsequent flooding.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=missouri+river+flooding

There was just too much rain and runoff in a short period of time.

[serenitynow]

Please consider the source (TAN). Its a news source with an agenda.

Like you, I found no such reference either, I suspect they are referring to the first article you linked to. The title and the first 2 paragraphs are contradictory, however, ...

As Thailand Floods Spread, Experts Blame Officials, Not Rains

By SETH MYDANS

Published: October 13, 2011

BANGKOK As some of Thailand's worst flooding in half a century bears down on Bangkok submerging cities, industrial parks and ancient temples as it comes experts in water management are blaming human activity for turning an unusually heavy monsoon season into a disaster.

The main factors, they say, are deforestation, overbuilding in catchment areas, the damming and diversion of natural waterways, urban sprawl, and the filling-in of canals, combined with bad planning. Warnings to the authorities, they say, have been in vain.

So whereas TAN clearly states that the NYTimes is criticizing this govt, the experts in this NYTimes article are criticizing years of Thai land/water management practices.

Like you, I don't find any substance behind TANs claim here.

However, the NYT article's brief critique of Thailand's land/water management issues rings true. BTW, this part of the NYT article is also a self-critique as they quoted Thai officials, among other experts.

Agree with you - looks like this TAN article is - to put it nicely - inaccurate.

Well if this government gets even one thing right I'll be the first to give them credit. How many people have they already killed through their incompetence? How many hundreds more will die from diseases that no news reporter will be on hand to document? How many livliihoods lost? Tell me ONE positive thing this government has accomplished with regard to flood mitigation or relief. Just one.

I see picture after picture like this one:

It's every man, woman child and granny for themselves out there. It's <snip> heart wrenching. You ever see a picture with government agencies helping these people? Anyone seen a policeman in the past 2 weeks?

SerenityNow, Are you in a flood area, btw? Where I've been (this time, I'm not counting last March) there's been flooding but not the disaster that isand similar areas.

Re: this thread - Saying that TAN is incorrectly reporting what the foreign press is reporting is (of course) NOT the same thing as saying that the gov't is doing a good job on the flood efforts.

Re: victims - I've seen that some posters are in affected areas. For them and for all of those flooded, I hope that they recover as well as possible. Where I was in March, we were flooded and need to clean up, but it was over pretty fast and we were lucky to have minimal damage. The idea that there are nearly 300 deaths due to the flooding is terrible and incredible... and that is after the flooding in the south earlier (I don't recall how many deaths there were this spring).

Re: volunteering - BTW, does anyone have information on where people (esp. Thai) from outside the flooded areas can call in order to learn how/where to volunteer, for example in Ayuttaya?

I am not in the area that is currently flooded, though my wife is from Ayutthaya and her former family home has about a meter of water in it now. I was flooded somewhat by the Chiang Mai floods of a couple of weeks ago, but that was due to the incompetence of the local Khamnan who dredged the river next to my property and then dumped the earth in a manner to channel future floods directly onto my property. I've remedied that situation already and I count ourselves lucky we suffered no crop damage. Again, this was due totally to human ignorance/ error/indifference and nothing to do with the rains that come every year. We've got the third string in there running things now and people are dying because of it. It is unforgivable.

Edited October 17, 2011 by serenitynow

[tlansford]

<sssssnip>

Well if this government gets even one thing right I'll be the first to give them credit. How many people have they already killed through their incompetence? How many hundreds more will die from diseases that no news reporter will be on hand to document? How many livliihoods lost? Tell me ONE positive thing this government has accomplished with regard to flood mitigation or relief. Just one.

I see picture after picture like this one:

It's every man, woman child and granny for themselves out there. It's <snip> heart wrenching. You ever see a picture with government agencies helping these people? Anyone seen a policeman in the past 2 weeks?

SerenityNow, Are you in a flood area, btw? Where I've been (this time, I'm not counting last March) there's been flooding but not the disaster that isand similar areas.

Re: this thread - Saying that TAN is incorrectly reporting what the foreign press is reporting is (of course) NOT the same thing as saying that the gov't is doing a good job on the flood efforts.

Re: victims - I've seen that some posters are in affected areas. For them and for all of those flooded, I hope that they recover as well as possible. Where I was in March, we were flooded and need to clean up, but it was over pretty fast and we were lucky to have minimal damage. The idea that there are nearly 300 deaths due to the flooding is terrible and incredible... and that is after the flooding in the south earlier (I don't recall how many deaths there were this spring).

Re: volunteering - BTW, does anyone have information on where people (esp. Thai) from outside the flooded areas can call in order to learn how/where to volunteer, for example in Ayuttaya?

I am not in the area that is currently flooded, though my wife is from Ayutthaya and her former family home has about a meter of water in it now. I was flooded somewhat by the Chiang Mai floods of a couple of weeks ago, but that was due to the incompetence of the local Khamnan who dredged the river next to my property and then dumped the earth in a manner to channel future floods directly onto my property. I've remedied that situation already and I count ourselves lucky we suffered no crop damage. Again, this was due totally to human ignorance/ error/indifference and nothing to do with the rains that come every year. We've got the third string in there running things now and people are dying because of it. It is unforgivable.

Good (as far as one can say that) for you and your family. My GF and her sister have friends in Ayuttaya and they were flooded but OK.

There has been a very small adjustment by some of the land owners on Koh Tao after the flooding in March, but what little that is being done appears to be independent and uncoordinated actions. I'm not very optimistic.

[houseinbkk]

Im in foreign press land, and i can confirm none of the mass media i read or listen to has criticised the Thai govt. over the floods. Almost all foreigners couldnt care less what happens in Thailand.

Agreed - I'm in the UK right now and BBC has only just started mentioning the Thai floods for the first time, due no doubt to the tabloid headline opportunity of "evacuation orders" involving Bangkok.

It's a shame one of their junket-loving SE Asia correspondents didn't start covering the story from when Chiang Mai got drowned ... after all, CM only has 26,000 westerners living and working in the province - almost a third of them are Brits, which should have concerned the BRITISH Broadcasting Corp's "news hounds".

Actually its has been on BBC World quite a bit. This sort of stuff only hits the domestic news when there has been a crocodile scare and there were moving pictures of crocodiles. There were yesterday put out by APTV. Dont think BBC give their Bangkok correpondent many junkets. more's the pity.

I saw it on BBC world last week when i was away but there was no criticism of the govt, more just informing people that parts of Thailand are flooded.

[scotbeve]

As serenitynow states in his above reply

<<<< snip/copy/paste " I was flooded somewhat by the Chiang Mai floods of a couple of weeks ago, but that was due to the incompetence of the local Khamnan who dredged the river next to my property and then dumped the earth in a manner to channel future floods directly onto my property." snip/copy/paste>>>>>

it seems that the usual (and I've seen it for years and years/countless times - doesn't matter WHICH government admin is in place), typical panic/everyman for himself attitude prevails. The government, provincial government, amphur government, the TAO, and right down to the village headman level will give orders, demands, instructions, suggestions, help, assistance - any mixture of the aforementioned or all of the aforementioned, and guess what folks??? You will find that there is a high percentage of people (not in the aforementioned leader group) that will override the measures, etc. and do whatever the **ck THEY want to do. To blame JUST THIS PARTICULAR government is absurd. One can read about ALL the big floods recorded throughout the years. But to blame this particular government singularly, is irresponsible and counter-productive. I hope this can strike a cord with all the anti-government-rabid flame throwers out there!!!

Edited October 18, 2011 by scotbeve