Thaksin Forced To Enlist Army Help For Novice PM Yingluck

[YellowFeverCAD]

Rubbish article with the intention of denigrating the elected government . The indirect result is that it insults the Thai military. . The military has been involved in the flood relief and prevention activities since the start of the crisis. It's active role was initiated as part of the longstanding government natural disaster protocol that predates the current administration. The reason that the military has been involved is attributable to the fact that the expenditures of the Defence Ministry are among the greatest of any ministry, absorbing a large proportion of the total national budget (source Thailand Ministry of Defense, http://www.mod.go.th/eng_mod/ ) As the ministry that gobbles up a large part of the budget, it is reasonable to expect that it would then shoulder a large part of the response. The large transport trucks that the MOI has been borrowing since the start of the crisis came from the military. The Nation appears to be on a mission to muckrack and try and stir up unrest.

Mr. Hearst would have been proud.

You know if you took off those thick red goggles you are always wearing once in a while you would see the world in a much different light.. so sad to go through life as you do so stuck following someone else's dogma you can't think for yourself. Anything that even hints at a problem with this gov't or the red shirt movement in general you begin to slobber like a rabid dog pouncing on your keyboard to defend your allies... what a sad existence indeed.

[cowslip]

The photo-ops of boat-loads of VIPs looking at flooding illustrates the attitude of the ruling elite to the situation.

Unprepared and incompetent hey are incapable of doing anything so they huddle in great groups as they are bussed fro one photo op to the next. they hope that if they appear at a flooded area it will create the impression that they are doing something.THe previous admin would have been no different.

Having said that in amongst all this posturing are a few "experts" - mostly civil servants - who do actually now what they are doing and despite the efforts of politicians and other dignitaries, VIPs etc., are trying to do their job.

Totally agree cowslip and I think that the "ruling elite" should be ashamed of themselves especially as their supporters the red shirts say they (PTP) represent the "prai" underclass while painting the opposition as representing the "ammart" side and yet now they are acting like this.

I just wished that those experts you spoke of had been put in place to properly do their jobs at the beginning of the crisis instead of waiting for this mess to happen.

I think you've possibly missed the point here.

Both parties or sides are really part of a ruling elite. It's just what power base they choose to use.

Due to the lack of any really democratic institutions in Thailand the electorate is left to be conned by one side or the other. The country is wide open to this form of abuse - and the last government actually likes this situation because in a democracy they would never see the light of day - however in the chaos of litigation and political two-faced-ness that is Thai politics they can always get in by a legal loop hoe or a coup etc etc.....

I presume you are familiar with "Animal Farm"?

The "experts" - civil servants or rather engineers who actually do things like flood prevention have been here all the time - their job is not made any easier though when some politician tries to "prove his worth" by making some ridiculous statement (see recent contradictions) or tries to implement some ill-thought-out policy. This is not a symptom of any one political party but of thai politics in general.

Actually I think the gross partisanship displayed by many expats on this forum is really an indication of how poorly they understand both Thailand at its political machinations.

[cowslip]

I think some rather posters are really not think ing before posting and losing track of the fact that this is the WORST FLOODING for 50 years.

Any government will have problems and it is very easy to level "could do better" accusations. Many of these may be founded on good evidence but to suggest that this government is doing any worse the any other government might have done is just a ridiculously facile argument and reflects more on the paucity of the posters reasoning than any issue surrounding the present crisis.

Edited October 18, 2011 by cowslip

[YellowFeverCAD]

" The last government was crippled by the red mob," I've read some tripe in my time but this has to be up there in the top ten.

It would really be off topic to post at length here so why don't you PM me ? I could do with a laugh

Lord talk about denial... you really are just a mindless troll... or you missed all the "peaceful protests" from the last two years?

[abhaya]

To me the military would be the ideal organization to head up and deal with natural disasters like this, as they have the top down command structure to implement the nuts and bolts logistics as well has the ability to quickly deploy manpower and equipment to affected locations. This should work in tandem with emergency service government departments in place, headed up by engineers and academically qualified experts (not politcal appointees that come and go with administrations) to develop strategies. Finally have a system in place that clearly designates areas of responsibilities based on the nature of emergency and appropriate liaisons to facilitate interdepartmental coordination.

This model could be used to deal with a variety of disasters earthquakes, tsunamis, floods, droughts wildfires etc. Thailand needs a "working army", similar but not "same same" to the PLA in China who are usually the first responders to a natural crisis. I am guessing that the reasons that the military was given the task but not authority in emergency management, is that the current admin did not want it to look too good in the eyes of the people. Politics of the sneaker pimps- same old tote different hongnam.

[Cayenne]

The photo-ops of boat-loads of VIPs looking at flooding illustrates the attitude of the ruling elite to the situation.

Unprepared and incompetent hey are incapable of doing anything so they huddle in great groups as they are bussed fro one photo op to the next. they hope that if they appear at a flooded area it will create the impression that they are doing something.THe previous admin would have been no different.

Having said that in amongst all this posturing are a few "experts" - mostly civil servants - who do actually now what they are doing and despite the efforts of politicians and other dignitaries, VIPs etc., are trying to do their job.

Totally agree cowslip and I think that the "ruling elite" should be ashamed of themselves especially as their supporters the red shirts say they (PTP) represent the "prai" underclass while painting the opposition as representing the "ammart" side and yet now they are acting like this.

I just wished that those experts you spoke of had been put in place to properly do their jobs at the beginning of the crisis instead of waiting for this mess to happen.

I think you've possibly missed the point here.

Both parties or sides are really part of a ruling elite. It's just what power base they choose to use.

Due to the lack of any really democratic institutions in Thailand the electorate is left to be conned by one side or the other. The country is wide open to this form of abuse - and the last government actually likes this situation because in a democracy they would never see the light of day - however in the chaos of litigation and political two-faced-ness that is Thai politics they can always get in by a legal loop hoe or a coup etc etc.....

I presume you are familiar with "Animal Farm"?

The "experts" - civil servants or rather engineers who actually do things like flood prevention have been here all the time - their job is not made any easier though when some politician tries to "prove his worth" by making some ridiculous statement (see recent contradictions) or tries to implement some ill-thought-out policy. This is not a symptom of any one political party but of thai politics in general.

Actually I think the gross partisanship displayed by many expats on this forum is really an indication of how poorly they understand both Thailand at its political machinations.

Hmm? I thought I got your point but found it ironic that one side spent much time and money to portray itself as representing the poor underclass when all it is just two sides of the same coin as you mentioned. Was there something else I missed?

As yes, I have alluded to Animal Farm many times in my previous other postings in this forum as those in power chose to adopt the same things they were campaigning against once they were the government.

[MunterHunter]

I think some rather posters are really not think ing before posting and losing track of the fact that this is the WORST FLOODING for 50 years.

Any government will have problems and it is very easy to level "could do better" accusations. Many of these may be founded on good evidence but to suggest that this government is doing any worse the any other government might have done is just a ridiculously facile argument and reflects more on the paucity of the posters reasoning than any issue surrounding the present crisis.

Worst Flooding in 50 years, that was known about 2 mths ago when it drowned Chiang Mai.

However the government are only now starting to take it seriously and (try to) build defenses... building a sandbag wall when you are stood in 2 foot of water is a bit like Closing the proverbial stable door once the horse has bolted, don't you agree?

[Buchholz]

I think some rather posters are really not think ing before posting and losing track of the fact that this is the WORST FLOODING for 50 years.

According to Yingluck, if we can believe her, it's the WORST FLOODING EVER in history.

.

[sexy man]

I think some rather posters are really not think ing before posting and losing track of the fact that this is the WORST FLOODING for 50 years.

According to Yingluck, if we can believe her, it's the WORST FLOODING EVER in history.

.

what about noah and his ark

[David48]

Well, if the heavens open up and floods devastate the country again next rainy season she could also call upon the help of the Navy and their new fleet of submarines … who said there wasn’t any forward planning!

[jonclark]

Rubbish article with the intention of denigrating the elected government . The indirect result is that it insults the Thai military. . The military has been involved in the flood relief and prevention activities since the start of the crisis. It's active role was initiated as part of the longstanding government natural disaster protocol that predates the current administration. The reason that the military has been involved is attributable to the fact that the expenditures of the Defence Ministry are among the greatest of any ministry, absorbing a large proportion of the total national budget (source Thailand Ministry of Defense, http://www.mod.go.th/eng_mod/ ) As the ministry that gobbles up a large part of the budget, it is reasonable to expect that it would then shoulder a large part of the response. The large transport trucks that the MOI has been borrowing since the start of the crisis came from the military. The Nation appears to be on a mission to muckrack and try and stir up unrest.

Mr. Hearst would have been proud.

Thank you Mr One-eye. Elected governments that prove incompetent should be criticised. Its part of the democratic process. Getting elected does not obligate the population or the media to fawn at your feet. Sorry if it upsets your useless lightweight heroes.

If someone wishes to criticize, then by all means hr/she should do so. However, the criticism should be based upon accurate facts, not subjective interpretations from biased sources that have the objective of spreading negative nonsense. You disagree with what I wrote. Fine. What is inaccurate or false about my statements? The fact of the matter is that the military was involved since the crisis started. Army engineers were deployed immediately. They did some quick work that bought some extra time. the military did the job because they had the resources. The MOI doesn't have the budget that the military has. As such it cannot provide the equipment, nor the manpower.What's the point of distoring facts?

I don't think anyone is disagreeing with the facts of your statement rather with the reasoning behind it. As with most things on TV irrespective of the topic it always degenerates into a mudslinging match between the supporters of either political faction. So when you state " the criticism should be based upon accurate facts, not subjective interpretations from biased sources that have the objective of spreading negative nonsense" The simple reply to that is why? When "the others" were in power the UDD / PTP (whom i belive you are a supporter of) ignored this basic etiquette in their dealings with the last government, (I remember some of the propaganda on Truth Today and other red media outlets, and i'm not sure they fit with your policy of criticism being based on accurate facts) however you expect that it is a courtesy that should be extended to the Yingluck Government and agencies thereof

So unfortunately for you GK you will be and are tarred by the tactics of the reds whenever you post,as what is good for the goose is also good for the gander

[animatic]

Rubbish article with the intention of denigrating the elected government . The indirect result is that it insults the Thai military. . The military has been involved in the flood relief and prevention activities since the start of the crisis. It's active role was initiated as part of the longstanding government natural disaster protocol that predates the current administration. The reason that the military has been involved is attributable to the fact that the expenditures of the Defence Ministry are among the greatest of any ministry, absorbing a large proportion of the total national budget (source Thailand Ministry of Defense, http://www.mod.go.th/eng_mod/ ) As the ministry that gobbles up a large part of the budget, it is reasonable to expect that it would then shoulder a large part of the response. The large transport trucks that the MOI has been borrowing since the start of the crisis came from the military. The Nation appears to be on a mission to muckrack and try and stir up unrest.

Mr. Hearst would have been proud.

Thank you Mr One-eye. Elected governments that prove incompetent should be criticised. Its part of the democratic process. Getting elected does not obligate the population or the media to fawn at your feet. Sorry if it upsets your useless lightweight heroes.

If someone wishes to criticize, then by all means hr/she should do so. However, the criticism should be based upon accurate facts, not subjective interpretations from biased sources that have the objective of spreading negative nonsense. You disagree with what I wrote. Fine. What is inaccurate or false about my statements? The fact of the matter is that the military was involved since the crisis started. Army engineers were deployed immediately. They did some quick work that bought some extra time. the military did the job because they had the resources. The MOI doesn't have the budget that the military has. As such it cannot provide the equipment, nor the manpower.What's the point of distoring facts?

I don't think anyone is disagreeing with the facts of your statement rather with the reasoning behind it. As with most things on TV irrespective of the topic it always degenerates into a mudslinging match between the supporters of either political faction. So when you state " the criticism should be based upon accurate facts, not subjective interpretations from biased sources that have the objective of spreading negative nonsense" The simple reply to that is why? When "the others" were in power the UDD / PTP (whom i belive you are a supporter of) ignored this basic etiquette in their dealings with the last government, (I remember some of the propaganda on Truth Today and other red media outlets, and i'm not sure they fit with your policy of criticism being based on accurate facts) however you expect that it is a courtesy that should be extended to the Yingluck Government and agencies thereof

So unfortunately for you GK you will be and are tarred by the tactics of the reds whenever you post,as what is good for the goose is also good for the gander

Ignored it then and ignore it now.

[avalonmick]

Yes the incoming government got caught short.

If they are not too politically naive they -the PM - should be out there blaming all previous governments for what is happening now.

As everyone here points out, the problem is not new. It happens almost every year. Yet no-one does anything to address it.

Yingluck can swing a wide swathe of political support behind her if in the next few weeks she acts to remedy as much of the problem dykes, klongs and other waterways as she can before next year's monsoon.

That is the only thing she could possibly have done. She had no real time to fix what is decades of neglect.

As for crisis management, the government appears inept because the communication strategy is poor or non-existent. The government and the army are probably doing a very good job in impossible circumtances. It's not the army's job to fix the water run-off issues.

This article shows the situation here for what it is. Thaksins involvement, if any, to me is a side issue. The government at all levels here is based on Thai culture and the need for consensus and it slows reactions. Works for normal government functions but in an emergency there are just too many people involved for anyone to control or co-ordinate. I humbly suggest that the army should have a permanent charter to react in these circumstances. All the departments of all the ministries, provincial and local government departments with overlapping responsibilities are full of competent people I'm sure but there is no mechanism of delegation or co-ordination that can react quickly. I dont see this situation as anyones fault, it is the system itself that needs to be streamlined.

This government is completely useless... they turned this drama into a serious crisis through Very bad management.... not one minister is worthy of his or her job.... the poor Thai peoples are stuck with this and truth be told..... just as they deserve... you reap what you sow...!!!! Question:... How many Red Vilages were washed away.... Answer:... Not Enough...!

Sorry but there are 280 people dead and many thousands if not millions directly affected. None of them deserved this. I live in a Red Village as a matter of fact with most of the people here very local to Thaksin as his actions during his tenure improved their lives immensely. That isn't relevant either. The point being made is there is a fault in the system that needs to be fixed for times of crisis. The fact that this has happened during the first months of a new government just makes it worse. Regardless of political beliefs this should be seen as a chance to establish rapid responses for future ocassions. The knive throwers should wait until the waters have subsided now they should be helping carrying sandbags.

G'Kid,

Thanks for the clarification.

[Babcock]

THe previous admin would have been no different.

Agreed, the previous government would have been helpless, they were in a weak coalition and had to spend vast amounts of energy trying to fend off the red mobs. They didnt get chance to govern. The last government was crippled by the red mob, this government is crippled by ineptitude.

Which is better?

Abhisit went out in a boat once. We saw the pictures. What you didn't see were the waders pushing the boat along taking the pictures. Photo-op. Nothing more. He's not in shot now.

I wonder if they'll take my posts off again!

[Babcock]

This article shows the situation here for what it is. Thaksins involvement, if any, to me is a side issue. The government at all levels here is based on Thai culture and the need for consensus and it slows reactions. Works for normal government functions but in an emergency there are just too many people involved for anyone to control or co-ordinate. I humbly suggest that the army should have a permanent charter to react in these circumstances. All the departments of all the ministries, provincial and local government departments with overlapping responsibilities are full of competent people I'm sure but there is no mechanism of delegation or co-ordination that can react quickly. I dont see this situation as anyones fault, it is the system itself that needs to be streamlined.

This government is completely useless... they turned this drama into a serious crisis through Very bad management.... not one minister is worthy of his or her job.... the poor Thai peoples are stuck with this and truth be told..... just as they deserve... you reap what you sow...!!!! Question:... How many Red Vilages were washed away.... Answer:... Not Enough...!

Only less than 300 dead...all the reds should die from this! They sure dam_n deserve it!

You see you allow this sort of nonsense.

[ableguy]

This article shows the situation here for what it is. Thaksins involvement, if any, to me is a side issue. The government at all levels here is based on Thai culture and the need for consensus and it slows reactions. Works for normal government functions but in an emergency there are just too many people involved for anyone to control or co-ordinate. I humbly suggest that the army should have a permanent charter to react in these circumstances. All the departments of all the ministries, provincial and local government departments with overlapping responsibilities are full of competent people I'm sure but there is no mechanism of delegation or co-ordination that can react quickly. I dont see this situation as anyones fault, it is the system itself that needs to be streamlined.

This government is completely useless... they turned this drama into a serious crisis through Very bad management.... not one minister is worthy of his or her job.... the poor Thai peoples are stuck with this and truth be told..... just as they deserve... you reap what you sow...!!!! Question:... How many Red Vilages were washed away.... Answer:... Not Enough...!

Sorry but there are 280 people dead and many thousands if not millions directly affected. None of them deserved this. I live in a Red Village as a matter of fact with most of the people here very local to Thaksin as his actions during his tenure improved their lives immensely. That isn't relevant either. The point being made is there is a fault in the system that needs to be fixed for times of crisis. The fact that this has happened during the first months of a new government just makes it worse. Regardless of political beliefs this should be seen as a chance to establish rapid responses for future ocassions. The knive throwers should wait until the waters have subsided now they should be helping carrying sandbags.

G'Kid,

Thanks for the clarification.

The knife throwers are not allowed to work in any shape or form, did you forget ?

[jonclark]

THe previous admin would have been no different.

Agreed, the previous government would have been helpless, they were in a weak coalition and had to spend vast amounts of energy trying to fend off the red mobs. They didnt get chance to govern. The last government was crippled by the red mob, this government is crippled by ineptitude.

Which is better?

Abhisit went out in a boat once. We saw the pictures. What you didn't see were the waders pushing the boat along taking the pictures. Photo-op. Nothing more. He's not in shot now.

I wonder if they'll take my posts off again!

Cowslip I think the response and management might have been more co-ordinate d. Many reds supporters are quick to point out that the Dems and the army are bedfellows and here today we see the army playing a pivotal role in assisting the Thai people, whilst the government chases its tail, so given the red argument of the dems and army being close we might have seen a far more structured and proactive approach in the previous administration. Most of the probelms that have occured have been from government officials being unsuitable for the positions of responsibility given to them. In retrospect a better response might have been to sign the whole thing over to the army from day one.

[wlcart]

Weak government, even weaker media.

[tlansford]

Rubbish article with the intention of denigrating the elected government . The indirect result is that it insults the Thai military. . The military has been involved in the flood relief and prevention activities since the start of the crisis. It's active role was initiated as part of the longstanding government natural disaster protocol that predates the current administration. The reason that the military has been involved is attributable to the fact that the expenditures of the Defence Ministry are among the greatest of any ministry, absorbing a large proportion of the total national budget (source Thailand Ministry of Defense, http://www.mod.go.th/eng_mod/ ) As the ministry that gobbles up a large part of the budget, it is reasonable to expect that it would then shoulder a large part of the response. The large transport trucks that the MOI has been borrowing since the start of the crisis came from the military. The Nation appears to be on a mission to muckrack and try and stir up unrest.

Mr. Hearst would have been proud.

+1 - thanks for pointing out the obvious.

And the flooding has killed a lot of people & ruined immense amounts of property. Helping the people is what needs to be done now, and prevention needs to start for the future.

The competency of the gov't will be judged as well. With their editorial track-record, it looks like the The Nation will contribute mostly FUD rather than facts to that debate. But that is, apparently, what they are paid to do.

[Cayenne]

Cowslip I think the response and management might have been more co-ordinate d. Many reds supporters are quick to point out that the Dems and the army are bedfellows and here today we see the army playing a pivotal role in assisting the Thai people, whilst the government chases its tail, so given the red argument of the dems and army being close we might have seen a far more structured and proactive approach in the previous administration. Most of the probelms that have occured have been from government officials being unsuitable for the positions of responsibility given to them. In retrospect a better response might have been to sign the whole thing over to the army from day one.

Spot on. If we take away all the mudslinging and extremist posts, we find that most people are not blaming the government for the floods as we know it is the result of a natural occurrence, years of neglect, etc. But where we have a right to criticize the government is the way they handled the flood, starting from day one when they didn't take it seriously enough, not forming a crisis management team in time, putting the wrong people in charge of things, and worst of all, given conflicting information to a population already in panic mode.

[cowslip]

THe previous admin would have been no different.

Agreed, the previous government would have been helpless, they were in a weak coalition and had to spend vast amounts of energy trying to fend off the red mobs. They didnt get chance to govern. The last government was crippled by the red mob, this government is crippled by ineptitude.

Which is better?

Abhisit went out in a boat once. We saw the pictures. What you didn't see were the waders pushing the boat along taking the pictures. Photo-op. Nothing more. He's not in shot now.

I wonder if they'll take my posts off again!

Cowslip I think the response and management might have been more co-ordinate d. Many reds supporters are quick to point out that the Dems and the army are bedfellows and here today we see the army playing a pivotal role in assisting the Thai people, whilst the government chases its tail, so given the red argument of the dems and army being close we might have seen a far more structured and proactive approach in the previous administration. Most of the probelms that have occured have been from government officials being unsuitable for the positions of responsibility given to them. In retrospect a better response might have been to sign the whole thing over to the army from day one.

bit of a non-sequitur?

are you suggesting that the army is doing its job therefore not aligned with the old democrat party?

Due to decades of corruption the civil service is FULL of people who aren't up to the job. There are however engineers and others who given the opportunity can get things done....whether in the Army or any other institution.

I also thing the expression "redshirt supporter" is pretty childish.

[robertson468]

The issue is the disaster guys. Can we agree on that? The reason I suggested the army is they are trained to react quickly and have the ability to dedicate resources to co-ordinate other specialist resources available to my mind better than anyone else, especially those that have a country to run. G'kids response was from a position of fact, hardly one eyed. The cause of this is that it rained, and it rained and it rained.

QED for me.

I disagree that the issue is the disaster. The issue is the poor response and inability of leaders to effectively and swiftly direct operations. I agree that the Military is the ideal tool to manage the disaster, but this should be on the direction of the Prime Minister and her relevant Ministers. The later does not seem to be happening effectively enough and there appears to be conflicting announcements being made by the Government, which would indicate that the situation is not being gripped and controlled at the top. Thailand should have a Disaster Committee, comprising of the PM, relevant Cabinet Members, Police, Armed Forces and other relevant Agencies. This should be a long established Committee and particularly since the advent of the Tsunami, where the requirement was clearly shown. This Committee should have the ability to meet within hours and should receive reports from subordinate regional Committees of similar composition to be in a position to evaluate the situation and formulate an operational plan. The military is the ideal work force because not only do they have the assets to do the physical work that is needed, but have a ready made chain of command to direct operations on the ground. This is all pretty fundamental stuff that should be long established. It is a disgrace that no previous Government seems to have established this and more so that there appears to be little positive direction. Shedding tears in public only serves to further undermine the public's confidence in the Government's resolve and leadership to respond in times of a National Disaster. I only hope that there will be lessons learned from this awful disaster and dreadful loss of life.

Edited October 18, 2011 by robertson468

[Babcock]

What we're loosing sight off is as follows. Bangkok has had 3 times annual rainfall; 3 meters. The Bhumipol dam was full in June/July. For fear of another drought they didn't release any water until September which has contributed greatly to this disaster.

I don't know how interconnected are all the klongs but looking at a large klong coming off teh Phetchaburi klong and leading down to the river the water is not moving. It's not flowing out to the river and the sea. A decision was taken for good or ill to try and protect Bangkok.

So the water is largely being held up but it's collecting. Is Ayutuyah expected to remain under water for, I read, up to 45 days?

The forces of nature here are huge. It may soon become necessary to let the water go and that will result in flooding in Bangkok. I think this is what they are grappling with and it's not easy. Difficult decisions will have to be taken.

I'm pleased the army are helping because they are performing a socially useful duty alongside the populace in large numbers and the emergency services.

Edited October 18, 2011 by metisdead
Messed up quote removed, as it is difficult to determine who said what.

[cowslip]

for years corrupt governments have failed to address the problem of flood protection - this was a disaster-in-waiting. The present government has acted in the way ANY Thai government would - too little too late - trying to use this to justify some childish partisan beliefs is just that - childish.

major civil engineering projects (like useless barriers) always get a lot of publicity - because then the politicians' eyes light up at the prospect of all those billions of govt. baht floating about just waiting for the taking.

..... but simple methods that require raw materials - (dykes, drainage canals, sandbags) and labour (organisation) are much more resistant to graft and so not nearly so popular

Edited October 18, 2011 by cowslip

[Babcock]

Yes the incoming government got caught short.

If they are not too politically naive they -the PM - should be out there blaming all previous governments for what is happening now.

As everyone here points out, the problem is not new. It happens almost every year. Yet no-one does anything to address it.

Yingluck can swing a wide swathe of political support behind her if in the next few weeks she acts to remedy as much of the problem dykes, klongs and other waterways as she can before next year's monsoon.

That is the only thing she could possibly have done. She had no real time to fix what is decades of neglect.

As for crisis management, the government appears inept because the communication strategy is poor or non-existent. The government and the army are probably doing a very good job in impossible circumtances. It's not the army's job to fix the water run-off issues.

Hear, Hear. Spot on

[gl555]

Rubbish article with the intention of denigrating the elected government . The indirect result is that it insults the Thai military. . The military has been involved in the flood relief and prevention activities since the start of the crisis. It's active role was initiated as part of the longstanding government natural disaster protocol that predates the current administration. The reason that the military has been involved is attributable to the fact that the expenditures of the Defence Ministry are among the greatest of any ministry, absorbing a large proportion of the total national budget (source Thailand Ministry of Defense, http://www.mod.go.th/eng_mod/ ) As the ministry that gobbles up a large part of the budget, it is reasonable to expect that it would then shoulder a large part of the response. The large transport trucks that the MOI has been borrowing since the start of the crisis came from the military. The Nation appears to be on a mission to muckrack and try and stir up unrest.

Mr. Hearst would have been proud.

+1 - thanks for pointing out the obvious.

And the flooding has killed a lot of people & ruined immense amounts of property. Helping the people is what needs to be done now, and prevention needs to start for the future.

The competency of the gov't will be judged as well. With their editorial track-record, it looks like the The Nation will contribute mostly FUD rather than facts to that debate. But that is, apparently, what they are paid to do.

The military had the resources to help alleviate this problem from the start but it took several provinces to sink before Yingluck decided to utilise them when she should have done so from the start. This government is rubbish and it's unfortunate a disaster like this happened on their watch. Things are only worse because of them. I'm not saying the best government in the world could have prevented these floods but I'm pretty sure if the present government was more compentant, we'd have less villages underwater. The sad thing is, if 'educated' Red apologists like you are still stupid enough to defend her and not see what a piece of crap the PTP government is, the simple Red country folk will be doing the same.

This government has never been about helping the 'poor people'. It was just a slogan and lie to get votes, which unfortunately worked. Their first priority has and always will be to get Thaksin back home. Prevention for the future? 6 months after this crisis is over, everything will be forgotten. It will be back to business as usual of enriching themselves until the next crisis arrives.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I'm sure the Thai military has expertise in something... And no doubt they have the broadest and best equipped resource of manpower and logistical resources that Thailand can draw on....

But are people really suggesting that Army generals ought to be in charge of formulating plans for flood control and how to deal with flooding problems? Is that really what Army generals are trained to do?

No, one would think, when it comes to flood control issues, the government would have experts in FLOOD CONTROL and Emergency Preparedness to help direct responses to such situations....

The military would be the working arms and legs of such an operation.... But certainly not the head.

BTW, I asked this question in a different thread here and still haven't seen any answer... In this current crisis, thus far, is there any significant place where the Army and others deployed their resources in an attempt to protect that place from flooding, and actually succeeded in doing so because of their efforts (and not because of pre-existing flood protection measures such as those in Bangkok)?

The long list of flooded industrial estates, where the government said they would take all measures to save them and then couldn't, is the starting point for that answer.

Edited October 18, 2011 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[jonclark]

Cowslip I think the response and management might have been more co-ordinate d. Many reds supporters are quick to point out that the Dems and the army are bedfellows and here today we see the army playing a pivotal role in assisting the Thai people, whilst the government chases its tail, so given the red argument of the dems and army being close we might have seen a far more structured and proactive approach in the previous administration. Most of the probelms that have occured have been from government officials being unsuitable for the positions of responsibility given to them. In retrospect a better response might have been to sign the whole thing over to the army from day one.

bit of a non-sequitur?

are you suggesting that the army is doing its job therefore not aligned with the old democrat party?

Due to decades of corruption the civil service is FULL of people who aren't up to the job. There are however engineers and others who given the opportunity can get things done....whether in the Army or any other institution.

I also thing the expression "redshirt supporter" is pretty childish.

Red supporter not redshirt supporter is what i wrote- if you have a better more universally understood expression to describe that political faction please share?

As for the rest of your comment - Clearly you misunderstood most of my post if you think it implied the army was doing its job and you therefore jumped to the conclusion that it wasn't aligned to the dems? [The undertone here is that the army wasn't doing its job when the dems were in power - how you reach that conclusion suggest wild conspiracy theories in your mind] The army and dems have and always will be thick as theives. The current government has made an almighty balls up of the situation. The previous administration would have been better - impossible to prove but just an opinion.

[MrJohnson]

This article shows the situation here for what it is. Thaksins involvement, if any, to me is a side issue. The government at all levels here is based on Thai culture and the need for consensus and it slows reactions. Works for normal government functions but in an emergency there are just too many people involved for anyone to control or co-ordinate. I humbly suggest that the army should have a permanent charter to react in these circumstances. All the departments of all the ministries, provincial and local government departments with overlapping responsibilities are full of competent people I'm sure but there is no mechanism of delegation or co-ordination that can react quickly. I dont see this situation as anyones fault, it is the system itself that needs to be streamlined.

This government is completely useless... they turned this drama into a serious crisis through Very bad management.... not one minister is worthy of his or her job.... the poor Thai peoples are stuck with this and truth be told..... just as they deserve... you reap what you sow...!!!! Question:... How many Red Vilages were washed away.... Answer:... Not Enough...!

Sorry but there are 280 people dead and many thousands if not millions directly affected. None of them deserved this. I live in a Red Village as a matter of fact with most of the people here very local to Thaksin as his actions during his tenure improved their lives immensely. That isn't relevant either. The point being made is there is a fault in the system that needs to be fixed for times of crisis. The fact that this has happened during the first months of a new government just makes it worse. Regardless of political beliefs this should be seen as a chance to establish rapid responses for future ocassions. The knive throwers should wait until the waters have subsided now they should be helping carrying sandbags.

G'Kid,

Thanks for the clarification.

I agree. Let's play the blame game a little later on. There is a fundamental problem of decision making at the core here. This is not a time for collective, consensus-driven decisions. This is a time for decisive action. Experienced people need to be brought in. BTW - the 'this could only happen in Thailand' brigade should look no further than recent floods in Australia and the U.S. to see that this can happen anywhere. Ask the people of New Orleans how happy they were with the government response. And let's not also lose sight of the fact that many people are being desperately affected by this - to be cynical and frivolous is very callous.

[cowslip]

Cowslip I think the response and management might have been more co-ordinate d. Many reds supporters are quick to point out that the Dems and the army are bedfellows and here today we see the army playing a pivotal role in assisting the Thai people, whilst the government chases its tail, so given the red argument of the dems and army being close we might have seen a far more structured and proactive approach in the previous administration. Most of the probelms that have occured have been from government officials being unsuitable for the positions of responsibility given to them. In retrospect a better response might have been to sign the whole thing over to the army from day one.

bit of a non-sequitur?

are you suggesting that the army is doing its job therefore not aligned with the old democrat party?

Due to decades of corruption the civil service is FULL of people who aren't up to the job. There are however engineers and others who given the opportunity can get things done....whether in the Army or any other institution.

I also thing the expression "redshirt supporter" is pretty childish.

Red supporter not redshirt supporter is what i wrote- if you have a better more universally understood expression to describe that political faction please share?

As for the rest of your comment - Clearly you misunderstood most of my post if you think it implied the army was doing its job and you therefore jumped to the conclusion that it wasn't aligned to the dems? [The undertone here is that the army wasn't doing its job when the dems were in power - how you reach that conclusion suggest wild conspiracy theories in your mind] The army and dems have and always will be thick as theives. The current government has made an almighty balls up of the situation. The previous administration would have been better - impossible to prove but just an opinion.

It just shows a complete lack of understanding of the issue

you also missed that I was questioning you not stating.

I must say that the standard of argument on TV leaves a lot to be desired.