Cost Of Living In Chiangmai

[jjczap]

8 million baht invested in a term deposit in australia for 5 years @ 5% (until you get your pension) will yield 400,000 baht per annum. Plenty to live on in chiang mai and you will still have your 8 million baht at the end. No sleepless nights worrying about generating income or security of your money.

All my funds in China. What is the rule for opening an account for USA citizen in Australia? Sounds like it's an option I should look into..

Hopefully I can help you with some real numbers on SS and help you with your IRA. First if you were born in 1957 you have to wait till you are 66.5 to collect 100% of your SS. They changed all the rules of collecting SS based on the year you were born. You can collect sooner but you will take a certain % discount. I just applied for early SS at age 62 and my discount is 25% but if you did the numbers it would take me till I was 76 before it would have been better to wait till 66 which is my 100% year. Give me the money now , who know if I will make 76. The following site from SS will show your discounts based on 1957.

http://ssa.gov/retirement/1957.html

Concerning your IRA you can take out money without paying the 10% penalty anytime if you follow a certain process and do it for a minimum of 5 years. It is basically setting up your IRA as an annuity where you have to take out an MRD minimum required distribution based upon your age like you would have to do at age 70.5. I did this from age 54 and stopped at 59.5 and now take out what I want when I want. Here is one site that talks about options - the IRS site has all the details

http://www.smartmoney.com/retirement/planning/tapping-your-ira-penalty-free-7958/

My attitude is who knows what tomorrow is - give me the money now don't make me wait!!

Hope this helps you some

[expatdreamer]

@op

Don't worry about chasing girls, they will chase you.

Assuming you collect a wife + step kid fairly quickly (almost unavoidable), expect to pay around 40k a month + golf.

You can't make money here, only spend it.

Buying big things (like a condo) in the expectation of making money, only spends your money faster.

Indeed ludditeman, not a day passed on my holiday in Thailand where someone, be it the taxi driver, hotel door man, shop keeper, massage (normal not special) girl or the like would ask me "you have Thai lady?" and that to answer in the negative almost felt like you were being disrespectful of Thai culture by not availing yourself of that wonderful thing being a Thai lady. But then again, I am a hansum man, so should have known what to expect

To the OP, I trust, given you dont want to chase the ladies, that you have given thought to how you will deal will this line of questioning on a daily basis, assuming you too are a hansum man.

[Jingthing]

That is correct that if you follow certain arcane rules to the letter, you CAN withdraw from the IRA before age 59 1/2 penalty free. However, it is my opinion that most people doing that get (expensive) expert tax advise for that, because if you mess up even one time with following the rules, you are liable for ALL penalties retroactively. I thought about trying that but market conditions in my IRA made me decide not to. It may be a real option for the OP and he should consider it based on his own specific situation.

Relevant link but not updated since 2007 --

http://www.retireearlyhomepage.com/wdraw59.html

Also, as the OP is age 54, I feel he should start the early withdrawal thing VERY SOON, or totally forget about it. If you read the rules, I think you'll understand why.

Again, I totally agree, for most people, it is smartest to start collecting social security at the earliest possible age.

Edited October 31, 2011 by Jingthing

[expatdreamer]

8 million baht invested in a term deposit in australia for 5 years @ 5% (until you get your pension) will yield 400,000 baht per annum. Plenty to live on in chiang mai and you will still have your 8 million baht at the end. No sleepless nights worrying about generating income or security of your money.

We can do better than 5% here in Oz

U-bank 6.51% - backed by the NAB which is one of the big four here in Oz http://www.ubank.com.au/ub/web/home

However with all the turmoil those Greeks have got the Europeans into, there is a prediction this uncertainty and loss of confidence might bring interest rates down here, so dont expect this to last for too long

[jjczap]

That is correct that if you follow certain arcane rules to the letter, you CAN withdraw from the IRA before age 59 1/2 penalty free. However, it is my opinion that most people doing that get (expensive) expert tax advise for that, because if you mess up even one time with following the rules, you are liable for ALL penalties retroactively. I thought about trying that but market conditions in my IRA made me decide not to. It may be a real option for the OP and he should consider it based on his own specific situation.

Relevant link but not updated since 2007 --

http://www.retireearlyhomepage.com/wdraw59.html

Again, I totally agree, for most people, it is smartest to start collecting social security at the earliest possible age.

Thanks for the confirmation -- but not expensive - I have all my IRA money with Fidelity investments in the US - when I did this I took 1/3 of my IRA money and set up this type of

account and took my yearly distribution and as long as you don't add to this acct or take out more , you just sit back and wait for 5 years - didn't cost me a penny

[elektrified]

I sold the shares and withdrew the funds out of my IRA in 2006 before the markets fell. I believe mine was also in Fidelity, but I'm not sure of that. I never heard a word from Fidelity or the IRS so I would not worry about it.

[neilrob]

Well said, Chiang Mai. People who make such blanket statements are just showing their ignorance. Of course it is possible to invest well in Thailand---there are plenty of examples of this. That said, just like investing anywhere, it is important to know what you are doing and it is certainly not right for everyone. So the advice on this thread not to rush into anything is very good advice. That is why you should not count on generating investment income in Thailand as part of planning for retirement, because it may well not work out that way.

For example?

Didn't Naam point out that almost all Thai stocks haven't recovered from their all time high or 10 years ago?

Yes there are people that have had a bit of luck, but for every lucky person I suspect there are 20 unlucky.

Property bubble at the top, I think.

The only way is down.

You asked for examples---let me give you just a few. At the very top end, I would cite William Heinecke of Minor Group, who has made a very large fortune from investing in Thailand. Further down, I know a number of people who are doing well by running successful restaurants or restaurant chains in Thailand. There are a number of people who advertise on Thaivisa (and who many posters, maybe you included, will know) who run successful businesses. I even know people who have invested in condos and make a nice income stream from renting them out. It is certainly possible to invest successfully in Thailand. As I said however, just like anywhere else in the world, you need to know what you are doing, If you invest without thought or knowledge, of course you are likely to fail, but that goes for anywhere in the world.

[ludditeman]

You asked for examples---let me give you just a few. At the very top end, I would cite William Heinecke of Minor Group, who has made a very large fortune from investing in Thailand. Further down, I know a number of people who are doing well by running successful restaurants or restaurant chains in Thailand. There are a number of people who advertise on Thaivisa (and who many posters, maybe you included, will know) who run successful businesses. I even know people who have invested in condos and make a nice income stream from renting them out. It is certainly possible to invest successfully in Thailand. As I said however, just like anywhere else in the world, you need to know what you are doing, If you invest without thought or knowledge, of course you are likely to fail, but that goes for anywhere in the world.

All in the past, or using profits from a weak Baht.

I think it would be almost impossible for a newcomer to do now.

Besides that the OP appears to have no skills or past experience in making money from a business, so a disaster in the offing IMHO.

[neilrob]

You asked for examples---let me give you just a few. At the very top end, I would cite William Heinecke of Minor Group, who has made a very large fortune from investing in Thailand. Further down, I know a number of people who are doing well by running successful restaurants or restaurant chains in Thailand. There are a number of people who advertise on Thaivisa (and who many posters, maybe you included, will know) who run successful businesses. I even know people who have invested in condos and make a nice income stream from renting them out. It is certainly possible to invest successfully in Thailand. As I said however, just like anywhere else in the world, you need to know what you are doing, If you invest without thought or knowledge, of course you are likely to fail, but that goes for anywhere in the world.

All in the past, or using profits from a weak Baht.

I think it would be almost impossible for a newcomer to do now.

Besides that the OP appears to have no skills or past experience in making money from a business, so a disaster in the offing IMHO.

These are all current examples. If the past and present will not suffice, apparently you want examples from the future! My, my, aren't you difficult to please. And how do you know the OP has no skills? With no skills I wonder that the OP has got through his 54 years...

[moe666]

There are many stocks on the Thai stock market that pay 7 to 10 per cent dividend.

[ludditeman]

With no skills I wonder that the OP has got through his 54 years...

Did what everyone else does, work for an employer.

You are being deliberately obtuse.

[hellodolly]

Make it easy on yourself... Apply for a retirement visa in your home country. They will give you a O Visa good for 3 months... Find a nice hotel on Agoda and book for 2 weeks... Come here and go to a bank of your choosing and open up a Thai account... Transfer 1,000,000 Baht into it... (800,000 is what you will need to have in the account when you go to extand your visa - do not spend this until your visa has been extended) The other 200,000 is for to live on for 3 months and pay a deposit on a furnished condo/house which you should be able to find in the first 2 weeks (You can do a web search on a number of websites - but don't commit until you get here and see the place...

Once your visa has been extended you can spend down the 800,000 - Start with a budget of 65K/month - see if at works for you... Also realize that in the first few months thing may cost more as you will not know all the deals and non farrang prices available...

Live here a year and rent DO NOT BUY in the first year...

Find your niche and learn for yourself what it takes to live here...

Good advice Not sure if he can apply for the retirement visa at 54 might have to wait for 55. No difference in the mean time he can spend some real time here and get a first hand idea of the cost for his standards.

He can save 10,000 Baht a month buy just walking around town no need to go out of his way for a walk that is all cut up by hitting a innocent little white ball.

[hellodolly]

I would suggest subscribing to that Christian based listserve that sends out weekly notices on housing, electronics and other items for sale/rent... plus, of course, check thaivisa classifieds.

And I would advise exactly the opposite.

Anything aimed at foreigners will cost you 50% to 100% more than something aimed at Thais.

Be it Christian or whatever, if the advert is in English, or anyone involved is speaking in English, it will be far more expensive.

Look for a house with a Thai sign outside, hire someone to translate.

Hard to do as the person translating will also be negotiating themselves a commission.

Everyone wants to make a bit of extra money off foreigners.

Maybe he dosen't want a Thai life style. Chances are he wants a combination. That being said you should maybe read it before you condemn it.

In addition to housing there are many other departments there help wanted, help available, cars for sale, Motor Bikes for sale, electronics for sale, public announcements, where yard sales are, volunteers wanted , volunteers available. In short it is a lot of information for some one new to the city.

[Ulysses G.]

Live here a year and rent DO NOT BUY in the first year...

I agree. Many newbies LOVE Thailand when they find out how handsome and sexy they really are, but after a year or so - when they realize that they really aren't - start to hate the place.

I enjoy it here, but if you read Thai Visa much, you soon realize that some expats consider it a living hell - even though they never seem to leave.

Edited November 1, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[hellodolly]

@op

Don't worry about chasing girls, they will chase you.

Assuming you collect a wife + step kid fairly quickly (almost unavoidable), expect to pay around 40k a month + golf.

You can't make money here, only spend it.

Buying big things (like a condo) in the expectation of making money, only spends your money faster.

Indeed ludditeman, not a day passed on my holiday in Thailand where someone, be it the taxi driver, hotel door man, shop keeper, massage (normal not special) girl or the like would ask me "you have Thai lady?" and that to answer in the negative almost felt like you were being disrespectful of Thai culture by not availing yourself of that wonderful thing being a Thai lady. But then again, I am a hansum man, so should have known what to expect

To the OP, I trust, given you dont want to chase the ladies, that you have given thought to how you will deal will this line of questioning on a daily basis, assuming you too are a hansum man.

The OP indicated he was not interested in the bar scene. Doubt there will be a lot of Thai's chasing around after him on the golf course offering the services of a Thai lady.

You should really get out more.

[sfokevin]

The OP indicated he was not interested in the bar scene. Doubt there will be a lot of Thai's chasing around after him on the golf course offering the services of a Thai lady.

You should really get out more.

That having been said he should be prepared to revise his budget a bit if he happens to find love...

Edited November 1, 2011 by sfokevin

[Flatouthruthefog]

Make it easy on yourself... Apply for a retirement visa in your home country. They will give you a O Visa good for 3 months... Find a nice hotel on Agoda and book for 2 weeks... Come here and go to a bank of your choosing and open up a Thai account... Transfer 1,000,000 Baht into it... (800,000 is what you will need to have in the account when you go to extand your visa - do not spend this until your visa has been extended) The other 200,000 is for to live on for 3 months and pay a deposit on a furnished condo/house which you should be able to find in the first 2 weeks (You can do a web search on a number of websites - but don't commit until you get here and see the place...

Once your visa has been extended you can spend down the 800,000 - Start with a budget of 65K/month - see if at works for you... Also realize that in the first few months thing may cost more as you will not know all the deals and non farrang prices available...

Live here a year and rent DO NOT BUY in the first year...

Find your niche and learn for yourself what it takes to live here...

Seldom have I seen such a plethora of advice, most of it darned good like this.

Let me weigh in with one aspect of your future planning which I don't think has been mentioned so far. And someone who mentioned a motorcycle overlooked your passion: golf. (I HAVE seen people carrying golf bags on small bikes but would NOT recommend that in the west, never mind here in the wild east).

If you are likely to be confident driving a small car here, to carry a golf bag and occasional fellow player, budget around 200,000b for something used but reliable. There's masses of choice, especially small diesel pick ups.

If you don't fancy driving on the left and doing all the thinking for every other road user, you could make an informal contract deal with a red seelor/songtaow/pick-up or tuk-tuk. Some of those drivers have workable English, know the golf courses and are not greedy.

You might even choose to live close to one of the central courses, like Gymkhana or the Air Force place at the airport, which would also help control costs.

[ProThaiExpat]

I opened an account at Westpac Bank in Australia a few years ago while living in Thailand when the AUD was 65 cents to the USD. I moved all my US holdings to Australia, many Skype calls to them, and have enjoyed the increase in my reserves with the AUD at record levels. My interest rate on 5 year CDs is 6.7% per annum and I encountered no problem with any authorities in doing this.

You do pay a flat 10% tax on your interest income, taken out by the bank at the time they pay you. I opted for a monthly payment of interest earned, although could have picked up a couple more decimal points in interest if I had opted for annual payments of interest.

If I were to do it again, I would open a dollar denominated account at Westpac there so that I could pick the exchange rate most favorable to me in the time frame chosen to convert my USD to AUD.

Interest rates have been climbing in the last couple of years and logging onto Westpac's website will give you current interest rates, above 5% I believe. I do my banking with ANZ who pays interest on both savings and checking accounts. Westpac charges AUD 20 on wire transfers while ANZ charges AUD 24.

Online transfers between the two banks occurs on a daily basis and both banks have excellent web sites.

PM me with any questions.

Good Luck.

[elektrified]

Make it easy on yourself... Apply for a retirement visa in your home country. They will give you a O Visa good for 3 months... Find a nice hotel on Agoda and book for 2 weeks... Come here and go to a bank of your choosing and open up a Thai account... Transfer 1,000,000 Baht into it... (800,000 is what you will need to have in the account when you go to extand your visa - do not spend this until your visa has been extended) The other 200,000 is for to live on for 3 months and pay a deposit on a furnished condo/house which you should be able to find in the first 2 weeks (You can do a web search on a number of websites - but don't commit until you get here and see the place...

Once your visa has been extended you can spend down the 800,000 - Start with a budget of 65K/month - see if at works for you... Also realize that in the first few months thing may cost more as you will not know all the deals and non farrang prices available...

Live here a year and rent DO NOT BUY in the first year...

Find your niche and learn for yourself what it takes to live here...

Good advice Not sure if he can apply for the retirement visa at 54 might have to wait for 55. No difference in the mean time he can spend some real time here and get a first hand idea of the cost for his standards.

He can save 10,000 Baht a month buy just walking around town no need to go out of his way for a walk that is all cut up by hitting a innocent little white ball.

Retirement Visa is age 50 not 55. FYI.

[Jingthing]

Make it easy on yourself... Apply for a retirement visa in your home country. They will give you a O Visa good for 3 months...

That's not really correct.

A retirement visa is an O-A visa obtained only from your home country. It is a ONE YEAR visa, not a 3 month visa, and with it if multiple entry you can make it last two years by exiting and reentering Thailand before it's expiration.

A single entry O visa good for 90 days only is not a retirement visa. Typically many people come to Thailand with the a single entry O visa as suggested and then apply for annual extension based on retirement IN Thailand. Chiang Mai applicants can also enter on tourist visas or 30 day stamps and do a change of visa status to O as the first step with the retirement extension being the second step.

What visa strategy you use should be based on your personal needs/timing/banking mechanics factors. One size does not fit all.

Edited November 1, 2011 by Jingthing

[mikekim1219]

Make it easy on yourself... Apply for a retirement visa in your home country. They will give you a O Visa good for 3 months...

That's not really correct.

A retirement visa is an O-A visa obtained only from your home country. It is a ONE YEAR visa, not a 3 month visa, and with it if multiple entry you can make it last two years by exiting and reentering Thailand before it's expiration.

A single entry O visa good for 90 days only is not a retirement visa. Typically many people come to Thailand with the a single entry O visa as suggested and then apply for annual extension based on retirement IN Thailand. Chiang Mai applicants can also enter on tourist visas or 30 day stamps and do a change of visa status to O as the first step with the retirement extension being the second step.

What visa strategy you use should be based on your personal needs/timing/banking mechanics factors. One size does not fit all.

When I went to Bangkok last month, I tried to open a bank account. They wouldn't let me open stating that is Bank of Thailand regulation. They asked me to get 3 month retirement visa which will allow me to open the bank. However since my original post, I have learned that bank account outside of the country is also acceptable. Does this mean that I can enter on entry visa (30 day) and apply for retirement visa with proof of bank account over 800k?

[Jingthing]

When I went to Bangkok last month, I tried to open a bank account. They wouldn't let me open stating that is Bank of Thailand regulation. They asked me to get 3 month retirement visa which will allow me to open the bank. However since my original post, I have learned that bank account outside of the country is also acceptable. Does this mean that I can enter on entry visa (30 day) and apply for retirement visa with proof of bank account over 800k?

Each bank branch has their own policy, which is ever changeable, about opening bank accounts for foreigners.

Sometimes they do require an O visa.

The way to solve this problem is to check more branches! Try different banks. You can do it .

Kasikorn Bank has the rep as being the easiest to open.

It is VERY ADVISABLE that you open your home branch bank account in the same city as your immigration office though!

Why, you ask? Because every year you must obtain a letter from your home branch bank to show to immigration for annual extensions if using a bank method, and the letter must be VERY recent, and often these letters are only granted from your specific HOME branch.

If you plan to live in CM, open the account in CM.

The banks don't know about the details of Thai retirement visas! A 3 month O visa is not a retirement visa, like I said. You don't need a retirement visa. That is one option. A retirement visa is ONLY an O-A visa obtained in your home country. For THAT visa, you typically show money in your home country is using a money qualifying method. For the first and annual extensions based on retirement done IN Thailand, the money MUST be in Thailand if using banked money to qualify (as opposed to income letter). People starting with O-A visas eventually enter the same retirement extension system as every other retiree here, if they stay. People with multi entry O-As can stretch that visa for two years though by playing it right, before needing to apply for an annual extension in Thailand. Again, an option, but ONLY from your home country.

Yes you CAN enter on a single entry O visa (not O-A) and then apply for an annual extension based on retirement in Thailand. To qualify if using the bank method, you need 800K in a THAI bank account that has not gone one baht under 800K for TWO MONTHS before the application date (three months for later years applications). Of course if you enter on a single entry O, bank branches that DO require foreigners to hold an O visa should open the account for you. Even more so if you tell them you will be transfering in over 800K baht very soon.

Edited November 1, 2011 by Jingthing

[ludditeman]

When I went to Bangkok last month, I tried to open a bank account. They wouldn't let me open stating that is Bank of Thailand regulation. They asked me to get 3 month retirement visa which will allow me to open the bank. However since my original post, I have learned that bank account outside of the country is also acceptable. Does this mean that I can enter on entry visa (30 day) and apply for retirement visa with proof of bank account over 800k?

Some Thai bank tellers don't speak English.

Easier for them to tell you you can't open an account.

Lying to foreigners is a way of life for many Thais.

Try another bank, you can open a bank account as a tourist. But maybe the teller you ask will tell you different.

[Jingthing]

This is a little going native, but for people who are having a serious problem opening a Thai bank account (it really shouldn't be a problem) here is a plan. Visit a real estate agent and express interest in shopping for a condo. Ask for their help in opening a Thai bank account as you will need that to complete a purchase. They will usually have contacts with at least one bank and may assist you personally in opening the account. To assuage guilt, actually be shopping for a condo and/or leave a big tip.

[dave2]

jingthing.

re .. (it really shouldn't be a problem)

your right .. it wasnt !

once you have one .. others are easy to get : )

dave2

[Jingthing]

I've got three. There are reports that people in the sticks where there are very few banks sometimes have a big problem opening an account due to lack of options.

[mikekim1219]

When I went to Bangkok last month, I tried to open a bank account. They wouldn't let me open stating that is Bank of Thailand regulation. They asked me to get 3 month retirement visa which will allow me to open the bank. However since my original post, I have learned that bank account outside of the country is also acceptable. Does this mean that I can enter on entry visa (30 day) and apply for retirement visa with proof of bank account over 800k?

Some Thai bank tellers don't speak English.

Easier for them to tell you you can't open an account.

Lying to foreigners is a way of life for many Thais.

Try another bank, you can open a bank account as a tourist. But maybe the teller you ask will tell you different.

I tried to open one at Bank of Siam and Bank of Bangkok. Spoke to the managers and both spoke excellent English. They stated that it is not individual bank policy but Bank of Thailand ruling policy.

[mikekim1219]

This is a little going native, but for people who are having a serious problem opening a Thai bank account (it really shouldn't be a problem) here is a plan. Visit a real estate agent and express interest in shopping for a condo. Ask for their help in opening a Thai bank account as you will need that to complete a purchase. They will usually have contacts with at least one bank and may assist you personally in opening the account. To assuage guilt, actually be shopping for a condo and/or leave a big tip.

This is the kind of inside information I need. Thanks

[Jingthing]

When I went to Bangkok last month, I tried to open a bank account. They wouldn't let me open stating that is Bank of Thailand regulation. They asked me to get 3 month retirement visa which will allow me to open the bank. However since my original post, I have learned that bank account outside of the country is also acceptable. Does this mean that I can enter on entry visa (30 day) and apply for retirement visa with proof of bank account over 800k?

Some Thai bank tellers don't speak English.

Easier for them to tell you you can't open an account.

Lying to foreigners is a way of life for many Thais.

Try another bank, you can open a bank account as a tourist. But maybe the teller you ask will tell you different.

I tried to open one at Bank of Siam and Bank of Bangkok. Spoke to the managers and both spoke excellent English. They stated that it is not individual bank policy but Bank of Thailand ruling policy.

It is a Bank of BS Policy. Don't believe everything you are told by Thais in suits. Try more banks/branches. Try KASIKORN. At some branches it's easier for a forienger to open a new Thai bank account than find a beer bar in Pattaya.

Also, if you're entering on an O visa, you'll have a non-immigrant visa anyway for those branches that may require it. This is not going to be a big problem for you.

Edited November 1, 2011 by Jingthing

[hml367]

This is a little going native, but for people who are having a serious problem opening a Thai bank account (it really shouldn't be a problem) here is a plan. Visit a real estate agent and express interest in shopping for a condo. Ask for their help in opening a Thai bank account as you will need that to complete a purchase. They will usually have contacts with at least one bank and may assist you personally in opening the account. To assuage guilt, actually be shopping for a condo and/or leave a big tip.

This is the kind of inside information I need. Thanks

Go to the Bangkok Bank web site. Open the Personal Accounts link. Then go to the menu item Foreign Customers. The first item on that meny is Opening an Account. That should give you the information you need to open an account with them.

MSPain