Anger Rises In Flooded Bangkok As Centre Stays Dry

[webfact]

Anger rises in flooded Bangkok as centre stays dry

by Janesara Fugal

BANGKOK, October 31, 2011 (AFP) - Tensions were rising between Thai residents and authorities in flooded parts of Bangkok on Monday, with hundreds protesting that their homes were being sacrificed in attempts to keep the city centre dry.

Police said 200 to 300 people gathered to demand the wider opening of a sluice gate in the northeastern district of Khlong Sam Wa, but the officials held firm and at one point formed a human chain to keep back the villagers.

"The FROC (Flood Relief Operations Centre) has asked the army to send personnel to areas where it has conflicts. The army has sent 200 military police to back up police forces," said defence minister Yuthasak Sasiprapha.

Hopes are growing that central Bangkok will be spared from major inundation after barriers along Bangkok's swollen Chao Phraya River prevented a major overflow during a spring high tide over the weekend.

But the UN's Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA) said the situation remained "critical" in several flooded districts in northern and western city areas, some with water levels rising above one metre (3 feet).

"Meanwhile, tensions are being reported between the authorities and local residents who fear that floodwalls are preventing water from draining out of their districts," the OCHA statement said.

It said a group of residents destroyed a dyke in northern Don Mueang on Saturday, causing a huge volume of floodwater to flow into the Prapa canal, which supplies tap water to Bangkok.

"The military has deployed 50,000 troops across the country to guard and maintain the flood barriers," said the statement.

Villagers in Khlong Sam Wa, who also blocked two roads on their second day of protest Monday, said they were paying the price to keep Thailand's capital and economic heartland free from the kingdom's worst flooding in decades.

"My house has been flooded for two months now and in the last two weeks it's got worse," Samorn Sohwiset, 43, told AFP. "I'll stay here until they open the gate."

Another young male villager, who was digging an irrigation channel to bypass the gate and allow water to pass to the other side, said officials only cared "for the rich people".

The Bangkok Metropolitan Administration (BMA) said that fully opening the gates would threaten key areas of the capital.

"We don't want a group of people to affect our long-term plan," said BMA spokesman Jate Sopitpongstorn. "We take care of the overall situation".

The three-month crisis -- triggered by unusually heavy monsoon rains -- has left at least 381 people dead around the kingdom and damaged millions of homes and livelihoods, mostly in northern and central Thailand.

The crisis has forced the shutdown of thousands of inundated factories, disrupting supply chains and putting more than half a million people temporarily out of work.

Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra said the government had made plans to rehabilitate industrial estates, but that it could take three months to get them up-and-running as normal.

Japanese automaker Honda on Monday held off giving an earnings forecast for the year ending March 2012 as it continued to assess the impact on its operations of the Thai floods, which have forced it to halt production there.

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2011-10-31

[thaibeachlovers]

At the beginning, the people trudging through waist deep water clutching the few possessions they could carry were all smiles. Recently though, the smile is gone in many cases, and there have even been angry words to the tv cameras.

IMO, once the immediate crisis is over, the anger will be spilling over into actions, and it's not going to be pretty, especially if the authorities fail to assist those with ruined homes and destroyed/ looted possessions.

[mdechgan]

Water is definately being diverted away from Bkk.

East of the Chao Phraya river is dry as a bone.

While east and west of bkk is a big lake for crocs to swim!

[ludditeman]

On one side of the barrier the water is 4 foot deep.

On the other side of the barrier it is dry.

I can't help but think it would be fairer and have less economic impact for the water to be 1 foot deep everywhere.

With water 1 foot deep life can go on as usual for everyone,

But the rich like the poor to suffer the most in Thailand.

[Credo]

Why do the news report always refer to people as 'villagers'. I live not too far from this area, and the flood waters creep closer each day. I live in a suburb of Bangkok. I am not a villager, not that I would care, but they always make us sound like uneducated idiots.

The idea of saving the Central Business District is understandable, but there is a limit as to how long you can live in flood waters. There is a point where it's not a flood, it's a lake.

Enough already, let that water get to the sea where it belongs.

[frodo]

Another young male villager, who was digging an irrigation channel to bypass the gate and allow water to pass to the other side, said officials only cared "for the rich people".

All the rioting and massive protests last year only to find those they voted into office are no different than those they detested so much. An amart by any other color is still an amart.

[ludditeman]

Another young male villager, who was digging an irrigation channel to bypass the gate and allow water to pass to the other side, said officials only cared "for the rich people".

All the rioting and massive protests last year only to find those they voted into office are no different than those they detested so much. An amart by any other color is still an amart.

I would imagine there has been little or no change in the admin staff yet.

You should watch "Yes, Minister", the MPs try to change things, the bureaucrats try to keep everything the same.

Edited October 31, 2011 by ludditeman

[MunterHunter]

Another young male villager, who was digging an irrigation channel to bypass the gate and allow water to pass to the other side, said officials only cared "for the rich people".

So there are no poor people living in the inner city, and no rich people living in the northern suburbs?

[TAWP]

Credo>> They are not only trying to minimize the flooding in 'central' Bangkok, unless you count everything inside the outer flood-wall as 'center' - if so many millions live in 'center' of Bangkok. I live not far from Lak Si, that is flooded. Having villagers etc destroying embankments will flood more areas here and it isn't 'rich' people that will be affected worse.

[ballpoint]

"The FROC (Flood Relief Operations Centre) has asked the army to send personnel to areas where it has conflicts. The army has sent 200 military police to back up police forces," said defence minister Yuthasak Sasiprapha.

I guess this shows the lie to all the posts trying to smear the Bangkok governor. A government appointed agency, and a government minister, telling us that it is their decision to keep central Bangkok dry, and their decision to use the military to enforce it.

[jybkk]

On one side of the barrier the water is 4 foot deep.

On the other side of the barrier it is dry.

I can't help but think it would be fairer and have less economic impact for the water to be 1 foot deep everywhere.

With water 1 foot deep life can go on as usual for everyone,

But the rich like the poor to suffer the most in Thailand.

It surely would be more fair.

But realistically, do you think they can take the chance of a "controlled" flooding in the zones of high economical importance?

Central Bangkok is not as flat as it might seem. As a foot of water in one part might mean a whole lot more in other parts.

I'm happy I'm not the one who has to take this kind of decision. I feel it's something like: should we flood heavily 1 million people or lightly 10 million? It's one of these "Would you rather lose an arm or a leg?" questions. There isn't a right and a wrong answer.

[MengWan]

Nobody just thinking of asking for pumps to remove the water ?

It seems that the flood has operated with the neurones of many people too and filled their brains with stupidity !

[ludditeman]

'm happy I'm not the one who has to take this kind of decision. I feel it's something like: should we flood heavily 1 million people or lightly 10 million? It's one of these "Would you rather lose an arm or a leg?" questions. There isn't a right and a wrong answer.

1 million flooded heavily will destroy all they own, including cars

10 million flooded lightly would destroy almost nothing, all cars and m/cs would survive.

[frodo]

I live here in Don Muang and we have had the flood waters for over a week now and the water is waist deep here and rising even as I type, the house downstairs smells due to the dirty rising water, why should we here endure greater and longer flooding just to keep a few places dry? When the waters were about a foot high it was inconvenient but liveable, so if the water has to enter the centre and it goes down here then I am all for. Sadly I have a such a low opinion of the PM and her so called government, that nothing they say can be believed; the people should smash the barriers let the water flow where it will!

I'm agreeing with you, marquess. I'm above you in the Rangsit/Thanyaburi area. There has been zero effort by this government to try and ease any of water out in so many areas for weeks. Trying to find any indication when those of us who lost our homes can return and begin the cleaning process and repairs has been futile. Their sad attempts to make Thaksin and Chalerm as flood victims by giving their flooded homes news coverage is absolutely pathetic. I'm sure both these individuals have more than one home.

I finally moved from my home over a week ago. The water levels were becoming dangerous, not to mention the smell and leeches found in my bathroom among other things floating and moving through the water.

I really don't blame the people at this point. I'm getting fed up, and I'm sure for those who can't relocate or don't want to give up their homes are even more fed up than I am. Very low opinion of Yngluck and her cronies.

[animatic]

Another young male villager, who was digging an irrigation channel to bypass the gate and allow water to pass to the other side, said officials only cared "for the rich people".

All the rioting and massive protests last year only to find those they voted into office are no different than those they detested so much. An amart by any other color is still an amart.

And that's the facts Jack!

[Gippy]

My house in the northern Thung Song Hong area of Laksi, Bangkok has been flooded for 11 days now and the water level has risen considerably the past couple of days. It's now above the level that we were able to raise the bigger and heavier items so the damage and loss is increasing every day. No effort has made been to communicate any kind of plan to drain or pump any water of the area and we are getting pretty annoyed now. I'm going to smash some gates soon myself. 1 metre for everybody is better than 3 metres for some.

[animatic]

On one side of the barrier the water is 4 foot deep.

On the other side of the barrier it is dry.

I can't help but think it would be fairer and have less economic impact for the water to be 1 foot deep everywhere.

With water 1 foot deep life can go on as usual for everyone,

But the rich like the poor to suffer the most in Thailand.

It surely would be more fair.

But realistically, do you think they can take the chance of a "controlled" flooding in the zones of high economical importance?

Central Bangkok is not as flat as it might seem. As a foot of water in one part might mean a whole lot more in other parts.

I'm happy I'm not the one who has to take this kind of decision. I feel it's something like: should we flood heavily 1 million people or lightly 10 million? It's one of these "Would you rather lose an arm or a leg?" questions. There isn't a right and a wrong answer.

Yes how do you balance.

You need to fix your house with a flood 1 foot or 4 feet ,

but if your job is dead with 1 foot

and still there with 4,

you can still pay for fixes.

The 300-400 BILLION baht needed for the repairs in government and loans will need to come from somewhere.

Which engine of commerce will you 'save or lose' to 'be fair'?

I agree I would be angry as a wet hornet if my place were flooded,

but more angry at who caused the flooding to begin with,

than those who have to manage it by the seat of their pants on the fly.

Now if all three things are mis-managed by the same crew in serial FROC-ups,

then I would be in a mood to throw the bums out. No confidence votes are

still how it's done using Democratic means, and legitimate street rage at

government ineptitude is still one of the ways those votes are lost by governments.

2.4 million people displaced by not properly managing this water for 2+ months.

No wonder the spin-miesters are in full backpedal mode.

Edited October 31, 2011 by animatic

[theoldgit]

At the beginning, the people trudging through waist deep water clutching the few possessions they could carry were all smiles. Recently though, the smile is gone in many cases, and there have even been angry words to the tv cameras.

IMO, once the immediate crisis is over, the anger will be spilling over into actions, and it's not going to be pretty, especially if the authorities fail to assist those with ruined homes and destroyed/ looted possessions.

I too was impressed with the smiles of those poor souls who were affected by the floods in the early days, I suspect that it's wearing a bit thin by now though.

I live near the centre of Bangkok, Thonglor, and I haven't seen as much as a large puddle, life here is pretty much as normal, I have to admit for feeling a tad guilty. If I thought that sending me some water would totally alleviate the suffering of others I would say "bring it on", but I suspect it's not that simple.

[zydeco]

I had to evacuate my house in Phutthamonthon yesterday morning after the water inside rose to 10 cm and outside was well over 1 meter and STILL rising (the government back on 23 October promised us it would not go beyond 50 cm to 1 meter, but of course they are lying sacks of sh*t). The only thing the BMA did for me was yell out "evacuate" at the last minute with no updates, no information, no nothing. I hope they all get cancer and die. Nothing and I mean NOTHING was done for Thawi Wattana except for some official jerks saying "timber" as the tree was falling on us.

Edited October 31, 2011 by zydeco

[robblok]

Same here flooded for a week now but liveable. But BKK is protected at all cost. They should open the gates and let the water in 1 ft for everyone is better as a few meter for some. The water needs to get moving not stay stagnant. All those dams just keep the water on one place.

I can understand people wanting to break them down. Maybe then effort would be made to drain parts outside of BKK. Now there is no immediate problem so no effort is being put in it.

I mean if some breached dams would mean that this whole mess would end a few weeks earlier then im all for it. Too bad for BKK. If it does not make a damm difference then let BKK stay dry. But not save it at the cost of others.

[marquess]

My house in the northern Thung Song Hong area of Laksi, Bangkok has been flooded for 11 days now and the water level has risen considerably the past couple of days. It's now above the level that we were able to raise the bigger and heavier items so the damage and loss is increasing every day. No effort has made been to communicate any kind of plan to drain or pump any water of the area and we are getting pretty annoyed now. I'm going to smash some gates soon myself. 1 metre for everybody is better than 3 metres for some.

Totally agree Grippy, fie upon the so called government, the sooner Yingluck goes back to shopping for Louis Vuittons the better!

[TAWP]

Same here flooded for a week now but liveable. But BKK is protected at all cost. They should open the gates and let the water in 1 ft for everyone is better as a few meter for some. The water needs to get moving not stay stagnant. All those dams just keep the water on one place.

I can understand people wanting to break them down. Maybe then effort would be made to drain parts outside of BKK. Now there is no immediate problem so no effort is being put in it.

I mean if some breached dams would mean that this whole mess would end a few weeks earlier then im all for it. Too bad for BKK. If it does not make a damm difference then let BKK stay dry. But not save it at the cost of others.

If you think releasing water to an average of 1ft across Bangkok at all will BE then 1ft on some average is inane - see the topology map and notice that some areas will be under 2-3m while others are still dry. By no fault of their own. Or the government.

[zydeco]

Same here flooded for a week now but liveable. But BKK is protected at all cost. They should open the gates and let the water in 1 ft for everyone is better as a few meter for some. The water needs to get moving not stay stagnant. All those dams just keep the water on one place.

I can understand people wanting to break them down. Maybe then effort would be made to drain parts outside of BKK. Now there is no immediate problem so no effort is being put in it.

I mean if some breached dams would mean that this whole mess would end a few weeks earlier then im all for it. Too bad for BKK. If it does not make a damm difference then let BKK stay dry. But not save it at the cost of others.

Rob, I'm now stayinig with friends in On Nut, around Soi 50, where there was a minor leak in the floodwall yesterday, the second one in three days. You should have seen how the authorities jumped on things and got them repaired. A stream of trucks carrying hundreds of sandbags for hours on end. For me and my house, they did nothing. Some little twerp rode around in a motorboat to inspect things on Saturday and that was it. I was in a boat for 2 hours yesterday and there was water for kilometer after kilometer after kilometer on Phutthamonthon Sai 3 and all the way down Utthayan. The BMA could care less. Over here in On Nut, people are living and laughing it up like nothing has happened.

[animatic]

Yes the water should be moving, no question.

If it's not then someones not doing something right in that area.

Moving very slow is at least moving, but too slow is not safe.

[ludditeman]

If you think releasing water to an average of 1ft across Bangkok at all will BE then 1ft on some average is inane - see the topology map and notice that some areas will be under 2-3m while others are still dry. By no fault of their own. Or the government.

One could be forgiven for thinking that those who bought low lying houses built on a flood plain, should shoulder part of the "fault" themselves.

[TAWP]

If you think releasing water to an average of 1ft across Bangkok at all will BE then 1ft on some average is inane - see the topology map and notice that some areas will be under 2-3m while others are still dry. By no fault of their own. Or the government.

One could be forgiven for thinking that those who bought low lying houses built on a flood plain, should shoulder part of the "fault" themselves.

Using the same logic: And those living outside flood barriers should not?

[rogerdee123]

I don't live in Bangkok and frankly try to avoid going there as much as I can, I dislike the place so much.

But they could justify not flooding it simply based upon the population density, not to mention the impact on economy, etc ... water supplies, hospitals, etc etc etc That community that destroyed the dyke that was protecting the water supply probably wouldn't have done it if someone had of taken the time to explain to them why that dyke was there.

But once again, there should be some leadership shown ...by someone (who can be believed) who should speak to the public about this and explain.

But who is there who has any credibility ?

This is another product of divisiveness.

[Credo]

The amount of time the water stays in some areas is unnatural. They need to get it moving to the sea.

They call us 'villagers', but that doesn't mean we are village idiots.

[zydeco]

If you think releasing water to an average of 1ft across Bangkok at all will BE then 1ft on some average is inane - see the topology map and notice that some areas will be under 2-3m while others are still dry. By no fault of their own. Or the government.

One could be forgiven for thinking that those who bought low lying houses built on a flood plain, should shoulder part of the "fault" themselves.

Using the same logic: And those living outside flood barriers should not?

I don't (didn't) live in a flood plane. My area was turned into one to protect people's right to live it up at the malls on Sukhumvit.

[erobando]

Why do the news report always refer to people as 'villagers'. I live not too far from this area, and the flood waters creep closer each day. I live in a suburb of Bangkok. I am not a villager, not that I would care, but they always make us sound like uneducated idiots.

The idea of saving the Central Business District is understandable, but there is a limit as to how long you can live in flood waters. There is a point where it's not a flood, it's a lake.

Enough already, let that water get to the sea where it belongs.

I think "villagers" is just a semantics issue and not a derogatory term. All communities tend to be referred to as villages, even more upscale housing developments.

The central business district is a pretty small area. Protecting it isn't really preventing water from flowing to the gulf.

As for the Thonburi side, the Lieutenant governor was was on channel 3 about a half hour ago.

It seems like their plan now is to hold up the water in the Bang Khae area and try to divert water from there into outlets to the sea. If I understood correctly, he said Bang Khae will be flooded for an extended period of time and will receive compensation... I'm not sure how the compensation plan will work.

I think they are trying to keep Rama II Road functional at all costs.