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Condoleeza's Triumph

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You will no doubt be able to read in your newspapers and web sites, glowing praise for the diplomatic triumph brokered by US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice in the Middle East (see http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4437936.stm ).

But this concord forces concessions on Israel that the US forces in Iraq would not agree to, and the security forces in the US itself would most certainly not allow.

The fact that Sharon has signed this accord can only suggest he has little or no intention of actually holding to it.

What you won't read in your newspapers is the fact there has been serious internal protests against this agreement from the Israeli security forces.

The protests came from the top levels of Israel's armed forces, the Shin Beit and all other intelligence services and the police. Rarely before have so many expressions of alarm been rushed to the head of government by all of top security agencies.

1. Each of the branches submitted separate warnings to prime minister Ariel Sharon and defence minister Shaul Mofaz. They were alerted to the grave hazards in store when the crossings are reopened later this month and the rest of the accord goes into effect, shorn as they have been of appropriate security controls.

2. Each branch placed its reservations in writing to clearly record where responsibility lies for the worst possible contingencies.

Security sources report gloomy forecasts from all the leading officials responsible for Israeli national security and the war on terror. The accord signed Tuesday caught them in the middle of constructing a new security system designed to safeguard the country after Israeli troops were pulled out of the Gaza Strip. The new accord threatens to push this system aside. Israel is divested of the means of keeping terrorists from making free use of the crossings which reopen Nov. 25 and the Palestinian convoys driving from Gaza to the West Bank and back from Dec. 15.

There is no longer any barrier to Palestinian terrorists bringing shoulder-launched anti-air missiles any time to the point from which they can turn Israel's international airport into a disaster zone and paralyse international air traffic to and from the country.

Sources reveal that the prime minister's office made sure the six-page accord left by Rice was not translated into Hebrew. Israeli television and radio audiences were therefore not exposed to its contents.

Israel is denied any veto power over the arrival of terrorists from Sinai to Gaza or from Gaza to the West Bank in both directions. A wanted terrorist can simply board a bus in Gaza and commute to Hebron or Ramallah without restraint. Israel officials may not stop and search it the vehicle, albeit on Israeli soil, let alone make an arrest. They can only gnash their teeth in frustration.

Equally freedom of control is promised the merchandise and container trucks.

The American and European inspectors at the Gaza-Israeli crossings will not allow the Israeli officers free rein to effectively search them for hazardous freights lest the 150-per-day quota be slowed. The Palestinians will thus be quite free to move as many terrorists and as much water material and explosives as they like between the Gaza and the West Bank.

Therefore, when Israeli security leaders saw with dread the collapse of their painfully wrought war on terror - a NATO military mission arrived in Israel as Rice left to study Israel's tactics and techniques - circles close to Palestinian minister Mohammed Dahlan in Ramallah were crowing with delight.

They praised Condoleezza Rice for helping them break down Israel's regime of crossings and barriers. At last, they said, we can enjoy full freedom of movement.

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Some more info.

"The main sticking point was Israel's desire to monitor passage of goods and people, saying it feared cross-border arms smuggling. Palestinians said an Israeli presence at Rafah would impinge on their sovereignty.

A compromise was reached whereby Israeli and Palestinian security officers at an EU-run control room a few kilometers from Rafah will monitor remote-control cameras. If the Israelis want someone stopped or detained, they must ask their Palestinian counterparts to do so. If the Palestinians refuse, an appeal can be made to the EU team of police experts while the person in question is held for up to six hours."

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/646213.html

This will not last long. Next terrosist action and this agreement will dissolve in seconds.

Even before that, in case Israel will have the smallest suspicion there are weapons or terrorists in the convoys, they will be searched in one way or another.

Israel does not care too much to follow agreements that compromise its safety, not even when the US is involved.

Why do you hate Palestinians so much TM ?  :D

Maybe because of the facts? :D:o

  • Author
Why do you hate Palestinians so much TM ?  :D

Maybe because of the facts? :D:o

The butterfly is on my ignore list, particularly because of ignorant assumptions like this one.

But for the benefit of clarity - and hopefully because it might make the insect realise that nothing is ever black or white - I was born in Hadassah Hospital in Jerusalem in 1947 under the British Mandate of Palestine.

So what does that make me?

Why do you hate Palestinians so much TM ?  :D

Maybe because of the facts? :D:o

The butterfly is on my ignore list, particularly because of ignorant assumptions like this one.

But for the benefit of clarity - and hopefully because it might make the insect realise that nothing is ever black or white - I was born in Hadassah Hospital in Jerusalem in 1947 under the British Mandate of Palestine.

So what does that make me?

A good Jew...

Good on you, Thomas. :D

So what does that make me?

Nothing but you knew that already

israelisupportyou.jpg

Why do you hate Palestinians so much TM ?  :D

Maybe because of the facts? :D:o

The butterfly is on my ignore list, particularly because of ignorant assumptions like this one.

But for the benefit of clarity - and hopefully because it might make the insect realise that nothing is ever black or white - I was born in Hadassah Hospital in Jerusalem in 1947 under the British Mandate of Palestine.

So what does that make me?

58

I'm trying to get some perspective on this. Would this move with the Palestinians be like giving Iran their own immigration and customs facility in New Jersey and letting the Iranian gov't make all the decisions about who could enter and who would be searched...independently from the US gov't?

Maybe i'm also on TM's ignore list I don't know but as a fervent supporter of Israel I would like to ask him why he doesn't go live there then?

  • Author
I'm trying to get some perspective on this.  Would this move with the Palestinians be like giving Iran their own immigration and customs facility in New Jersey and letting the Iranian gov't make all the decisions about who could enter and who would be searched...independently from the US gov't?

Looks as though Chowner's perspective is quite clear.

Those who do not understand Israel's position have not the imagination to transpose the State of Israel's security dilemma to their own country.

What conditions would their country demand if they were surrounded by enemies, all of which are potential harbourers of terrorists. One group in particular (who makes no secret of their desire to take over your land) wishes in their thousands to daily commute into your country to seek employment.

Would you agree to similar restrictions on the way you wish to defend your countrymen, either as analogised by Chowner or as contained in the Rice Accord?

I am not claiming any solid knowledge of this issue but it seems to me to be nothing but a see-saw issue. Today Isreal is at a disadvantage, that'll change, and then it will go back again. Everybody knew this would happen when the country was founded, that is being surrounded by enemies, this will never stop until the Jews are gone or the Muslims are. The fighting back and forth is getting old. Maybe an all out war will finally settle this matter?

I dont think a war would settle anything. The likely outcome would be victory for US/Israel, but at a very high cost for all parties involved, and any Arab nations drawn into the war would hardly respect any peace treaties signed in the end...

I'm trying to get some perspective on this.  Would this move with the Palestinians be like giving Iran their own immigration and customs facility in New Jersey and letting the Iranian gov't make all the decisions about who could enter and who would be searched...independently from the US gov't?

Looks as though Chowner's perspective is quite clear.

Those who do not understand Israel's position have not the imagination to transpose the State of Israel's security dilemma to their own country.

What conditions would their country demand if they were surrounded by enemies, all of which are potential harbourers of terrorists. One group in particular (who makes no secret of their desire to take over your land) wishes in their thousands to daily commute into your country to seek employment.

Would you agree to similar restrictions on the way you wish to defend your countrymen, either as analogised by Chowner or as contained in the Rice Accord?

You sound like a real NeoCon. Why don't you move there and not be a coward for once

Actions speak louder than words :o

I'm trying to get some perspective on this.  Would this move with the Palestinians be like giving Iran their own immigration and customs facility in New Jersey and letting the Iranian gov't make all the decisions about who could enter and who would be searched...independently from the US gov't?

Looks as though Chowner's perspective is quite clear.

Those who do not understand Israel's position have not the imagination to transpose the State of Israel's security dilemma to their own country.

What conditions would their country demand if they were surrounded by enemies, all of which are potential harbourers of terrorists. One group in particular (who makes no secret of their desire to take over your land) wishes in their thousands to daily commute into your country to seek employment.

Would you agree to similar restrictions on the way you wish to defend your countrymen, either as analogised by Chowner or as contained in the Rice Accord?

You sound like a real NeoCon. Why don't you move there and not be a coward for once

Actions speak louder than words :o

And why don't you shift your attention over to the 'France' thread and share with us some of your illuminating fantisies on the Socialist State? :D

And why don't you shift your attention over to the 'France' thread and share with us some of your illuminating fantisies on the Socialist State? :o

:D

Not taking the bait. You wouldn't understand anyhow like you have proved us many times in the past :D

I can't help but wonder what the world would be like if the Palestinians started to receive the same amount of money from the USA that Israel has over the years.

Is the USA still lining Israel's pockets ?

I can't help but wonder what the world would be like if the Palestinians started to receive the same amount of money from the USA that Israel has over the years.

What will be left after the corrupt ministers will take their share will probably be bombed by Israel in some point.

Is the USA still lining Israel's pockets ?

About 2.4 Billion dollars in the next year. For Egypt - 2 Billion dollars. Signing a peace agreement was profitable decision for Egypt! :o

This will never stop until the Jews are gone or the Muslims are. The fighting back and forth is getting old. Maybe an all out war will finally settle this matter?

You do have a point - it's only after bloody wars that people really appreciate peace.

I guess we will see at least one more Intifada before we there will be peace with the Palestinians. Israel is just not ready yet to make the full concessions, and the Palestinian Authority is not ready yet to take a strong, uncompromising position against terrorism.

the Palestinian Authority is not ready yet to take a strong, uncompromising position against terrorism.

Why would they ? the Israelis have renegaded against past accords and have failed to deliver on almost every aspect of the Road Map. They can't be trusted. Actually a better solution would be to give Israeli citizenship to all Palestinians with the same right as the Israelis. Problem solved. But the Israelis are racist in majority and will never accept that.

the Palestinian Authority is not ready yet to take a strong, uncompromising position against terrorism.

Why would they ? the Israelis have renegaded against past accords and have failed to deliver on almost every aspect of the Road Map. They can't be trusted. Actually a better solution would be to give Israeli citizenship to all Palestinians with the same right as the Israelis. Problem solved. But the Israelis are racist in majority and will never accept that.

And the Palestinins are perfect? :o

the Palestinian Authority is not ready yet to take a strong, uncompromising position against terrorism.

Why would they ? the Israelis have renegaded against past accords and have failed to deliver on almost every aspect of the Road Map. They can't be trusted.

If they did, they'd get an a strong and unified support for their cause worldwide, plus in large groups of the Israeli public. Since they don't, they just don't have a case. If you are promoting and supporting terrorism, what moral basis will you rely on when speaking of other's evil deeds?

Actually a better solution would be to give Israeli citizenship to all Palestinians with the same right as the Israelis. Problem solved. But the Israelis are racist in majority and will never accept that.

Granting Israeli citizenship is totally irrelevent as niether the Israelies nor the Palestinians are interested in that. Palestinians want to have their own sovereign country, separate from Israel.

Granting Israeli citizenship is totally irrelevent as niether the Israelies nor the Palestinians are interested in that. Palestinians want to have their own sovereign country, separate from Israel.

It's not getting to happen. You know it, I know it. The Israelis will never give the PA an independent state. This is just rethoric for the masses. They are buying time. And even if they did, the current setup is so ill-conceived, it will not stop terrorism because the territories will be parted and controlled by the Israelis. It will just fuel the cause of the Palestinian insurgents.

Actually this idea to give Palestinians Israeli citizensip has been circulating for some time in "Israeli" circles. I think it is feasible and could marginalize Palestinian insurgency.

the Palestinian Authority is not ready yet to take a strong, uncompromising position against terrorism.

Why would they ? the Israelis have renegaded against past accords and have failed to deliver on almost every aspect of the Road Map. They can't be trusted. Actually a better solution would be to give Israeli citizenship to all Palestinians with the same right as the Israelis. Problem solved. But the Israelis are racist in majority and will never accept that.

And the Palestinins are perfect? :o

No they aren't but they don't have the resources and the government structure of the Israelis. The Israeli government has no excuse, the PA has.

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