One Year Visa With Child

[chooka]

Chiangmai Immigration inform me that I can get a one year visa in the same category of that as a spouse visa if I have a Thai child and that I do. I was informed that I simply need to go along to the local government office and fill out a few forms. I am already registered as the father on his Thai Birth Cert. When I contacted the local office I was informed that since the child is to young to sign his name veritying that I am his father and we reside together then we need to go along to court and have a judge certify that we are actually father and son and the birth cert is not proof.

Anyone shed a little light on this? I am getting conflicting stories from immigration and the local government office and now my brain is numb.

I had been using a 12 month multiple entry visa prior but no longer need to travel in and out as often.

The mother and I have been in a defacto relationship for 7 yrs but aren't legally married so I can't get a spouse visa. The 3 of us reside together as a normal happy family you will find anywhere in the world.

[beano2274]

if you are not married you are not legally the father, you need to go to the Courts to address this, then you can be issued with an extension based on a child.

[lopburi3]

You must indeed obtain court judgement to obtain such extensions of stay. Takes a bit of time but not hard (especially with ongoing relationship with mother) so that would appear to be your best path. During this time you can obtain 60 day extensions of stay from any entry so just a border crossing/return can get you almost 3 months stay.

[chris5346]

how old is your child ?

i think if child is older than 5 or 7 (i can't remember which) then you can just goto an amphur office and they can see that your the father by asking a few questions etc, if younger then you have to get a solicitor and goto court .

i was quoted 30,000 baht from one solicitor.

[chooka]

Extending a Non Immigrant 'Visa O" family

To extend your familly Visa O up to one year you must of course have been granted a Visa O by a Thai embassy and have entered Thailand on this visa, then you will need to file an application with the Immigration Officer and provide documents as follows:

- Copy of passport or travel document with validity of not less than 18 months;

- Completed visa application form.

- Recent passport-sized photograph (4 x 6 cm) of the applicant taken within the past 6 months.

- Copy of documents proving the family relationship (birth certificate, marriage certificate, child legitimization and so on)

- Copy of household certificate

- Copy of Id Card of the person having Thai nationality

Thanks for the information. My problem is that my son dosn't have an I.D card only a thai passport and as he is only 5 yrs old can't sign documentation. I made inquiries about the court and it can take up to 5 months to be heard and the costs excluding the visa is 65,000 baht. I think it is easier and cheaper just to fly back to Australia and get a one year multiple entry family visa.

[Maestro]

...I made inquiries about the court and it can take up to 5 months to be heard and the costs excluding the visa is 65,000 baht...

Where did you get that information? If it was from a law firm, forget about them, go with the child's mother to the court office and get it done directly.

[cockneyrebel]

got mine done in surin a couple of years back my lawyer at that time was under 10k took 2 months to get to court no big deal in court but my lawyer was not allowed to talk to me everything had to be spoken to me by my G/f couple of other things you must be over 50 years old 400k in the bank no time limit and does not need to come from outside i had to show 4 pictures of us around the house and for some strange reason had to draw a basic map from my home to the immigration office, one other thing once the court decided it was ok took another few weeks to get the paperwork from them

[ludditeman]

Or you could just marry the mother, which costs almost nothing, and legitimizes the child at the same time.

[lopburi3]

You do not have to be 50 years old - that was an old requirement to live with family without financials. Using 400k, same as wife, there is no age requirement except for child be under 20 and living with.

[chooka]

Or you could just marry the mother, which costs almost nothing, and legitimizes the child at the same time.

My son is already ligit. Marrying the mum is even more of a hassle. I obtained a letter from the registry of births, deaths and marriages in Australia saying that I wasn't married and had never been married. I had it translated into thai and certified. I completed the statutory declaration at the Aust Embassy in Thailand and gave them copies of all paperwork. When we attended at the Thai office in our area to complete the marriage papers I was informed that I needed a divorce certificate. After trying to explain that I had never previously been married and showed them the translated document to the fact they would not accept it nor believe that I had never been married. They issisted that I provide a divorce certificate. We came to the conclusion that to marry a Thai you have to be previously married to another and divorced so we gave up, that was 5 yrs ago hence the reason we live in a defacto relationship.

[ludditeman]

Or you could just marry the mother, which costs almost nothing, and legitimizes the child at the same time.

My son is already ligit. Marrying the mum is even more of a hassle. I obtained a letter from the registry of births, deaths and marriages in Australia saying that I wasn't married and had never been married. I had it translated into thai and certified. I completed the statutory declaration at the Aust Embassy in Thailand and gave them copies of all paperwork. When we attended at the Thai office in our area to complete the marriage papers I was informed that I needed a divorce certificate. After trying to explain that I had never previously been married and showed them the translated document to the fact they would not accept it nor believe that I had never been married. They issisted that I provide a divorce certificate. We came to the conclusion that to marry a Thai you have to be previously married to another and divorced so we gave up, that was 5 yrs ago hence the reason we live in a defacto relationship.

There is no such requirement, the Amphur office you went to just didn't want to do it. Even if you were married and divorced, it is nothing to do with the Amphur office.

All you need show them is an "affirmation of freedom to marry" translated and counter stamped by the MFA.

[lopburi3]

It appears you did not have the translation of stat paper from Embassy registered with MFA as is required. That is your proof for district office and you can do at any office if one is not happy. Should take less than an hour once you have that translation registered.

[PoorSucker]

My son is already ligit. Marrying the mum is even more of a hassle. I obtained a letter from the registry of births, deaths and marriages in Australia saying that I wasn't married and had never been married. I had it translated into thai and certified. I completed the statutory declaration at the Aust Embassy in Thailand and gave them copies of all paperwork. When we attended at the Thai office in our area to complete the marriage papers I was informed that I needed a divorce certificate. After trying to explain that I had never previously been married and showed them the translated document to the fact they would not accept it nor believe that I had never been married. They issisted that I provide a divorce certificate. We came to the conclusion that to marry a Thai you have to be previously married to another and divorced so we gave up, that was 5 yrs ago hence the reason we live in a defacto relationship.

Go to another Amphur to get married, if they hassle you.

You are free to get married at any Amphur in Thailand.

[ludditeman]

Unlikely but

If you don't speak Thai, and were relying on the gf to translate, there may be other reasons the Amphur office wouldn't marry you.

If she were already married but not divorced (fairly common), for example, then the child would be considered the offspring of her legal husband. But I think his name would be on the birth certificate and not yours, so a silly thought on my part.

Is your name on the birth certificate?

If so how did you get your name translated into Thai, as they will only write Thai on a Thai birth certificate.

Edited November 5, 2011 by ludditeman

[chooka]

Unlikely but

If you don't speak Thai, and were relying on the gf to translate, there may be other reasons the Amphur office wouldn't marry you.

If she were already married but not divorced (fairly common), for example, then the child would be considered the offspring of her legal husband. But I think his name would be on the birth certificate and not yours, so a silly thought on my part.

Is your name on the birth certificate?

If so how did you get your name translated into Thai, as they will only write Thai on a Thai birth certificate.

My defacto has never been previously married and my son carries my family name and his Christian name is also farang. Yes my name is on the birth certificate along with my nationality and passport number but no address for me. Yes my defacto di most of the talking but the guy at the office also spoke reasonably good english as well and I fully understood what he was saying.

[chooka]

It appears you did not have the translation of stat paper from Embassy registered with MFA as is required. That is your proof for district office and you can do at any office if one is not happy. Should take less than an hour once you have that translation registered.

Yes everything was translated into either thai or english and all certified as true copies of original documents. The people at the Australian Embassy were extreemly helpful and ensured everthing was in order.

[terryq]

Yes but was your certified translation of the affirmation to marry stamped by the MFA if so then as previously suggested go to another Amphur.<br /><br />For the visa supporting a child route an id is not required for someone under 15, the requirements are for all family support eg spouse, children over 15 or even wifes parents who would have id. <br /><br />However, it would appear you are not the childs father UNDER THAI LAW, for this you will need to apply to the court for legitimisation unless the child is old enough to fully understand, age varies, then you and your defacto can just attend the Amphur otherwise as Maestro suggests attend the family court with wife and talk to the officials, early in the morning is usually better, in my experience they are helpful.

Sorry posted at same time

Edited November 5, 2011 by terryq

[ludditeman]

My defacto has never been previously married and my son carries my family name and his Christian name is also farang. Yes my name is on the birth certificate along with my nationality and passport number but no address for me. Yes my defacto di most of the talking but the guy at the office also spoke reasonably good english as well and I fully understood what he was saying.

Yes my address is also listed as "England" on the Thai birth cert..

The British consular birth registration is more detailed, listing me as 'father' and my Thai postal address and both our occupations.

I believe you can also get a British passport for the baby without legitimization.

[lopburi3]

The requirement is that this Embassy document be translated into Thai and then registered as a legal document with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MFA) and that is what any District Office will require for marriage - they could care less about paperwork from Oz. They want that paper from Embassy with the MFA registration number on it so they can verify it. Without that paper you will not get married. With it the process is simple. The problem is most district offices will have different ways to explain. "Good person" "Not Married" "embassy paper" "proof from Embassy" and likely a hundred other terms may be used.

[chooka]

Yes but was your certified translation of the affirmation to marry stamped by the MFA if so then as previously suggested go to another Amphur.<br /><br />For the visa supporting a child route an id is not required for someone under 15, the requirements are for all family support eg spouse, children over 15 or even wifes parents who would have id. <br /><br />However, it would appear you are not the childs father UNDER THAI LAW, for this you will need to apply to the court for legitimisation unless the child is old enough to fully understand, age varies, then you and your defacto can just attend the Amphur otherwise as Maestro suggests attend the family court with wife and talk to the officials, early in the morning is usually better, in my experience they are helpful.

Sorry posted at same time

So what you are saying is that even tho I am registered on the birth certificate as the father (we both attended at the local office when applying for the cert shortly after birth and signed docs) I am not the child's father under law until we apply to the court and they make a ruling? Thanks for that.

Does seem strange that the Australian Government recognised him as my son on the basis of the birth certificate alone when granting citizenship which enabled him to obtain a passport and Medicare card. They didn't make me jump through hoops, roll over and play dead unlike Thailand. Not sure if I should tell the wife he is not my son or not

Edited November 5, 2011 by chooka

[ludditeman]

You are not the father under Thai law

You are the father under Australian law

[chooka]

The requirement is that this Embassy document be translated into Thai and then registered as a legal document with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MFA) and that is what any District Office will require for marriage - they could care less about paperwork from Oz. They want that paper from Embassy with the MFA registration number on it so they can verify it. Without that paper you will not get married. With it the process is simple. The problem is most district offices will have different ways to explain. "Good person" "Not Married" "embassy paper" "proof from Embassy" and likely a hundred other terms may be used.

Yes that was all done and all boxes ticked except they wanted a Decree Absolute and the document stating that I was not married nor had ever been married which was translated into thai and registered was not suffice. The only way I could provide it was to get a quick marriage and divorce back in Aust and that all seem to hard so we both decided not to marry and just live as defacto's

[ludditeman]

The requirement is that this Embassy document be translated into Thai and then registered as a legal document with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MFA) and that is what any District Office will require for marriage - they could care less about paperwork from Oz. They want that paper from Embassy with the MFA registration number on it so they can verify it. Without that paper you will not get married. With it the process is simple. The problem is most district offices will have different ways to explain. "Good person" "Not Married" "embassy paper" "proof from Embassy" and likely a hundred other terms may be used.

Yes that was all done and all boxes ticked except they wanted a Decree Absolute and the document stating that I was not married nor had ever been married which was translated into thai and registered was not suffice. The only way I could provide it was to get a quick marriage and divorce back in Aust and that all seem to hard so we both decided not to marry and just live as defacto's

The rules are

Foreigner provides passport and translated/counter-stamped Affirmation of freedom to marry

Thai provides ID card and Tabian Baan book

The foreigner must have enough understanding of Thai to know what is happening (or bring a translator)

Two witnesses

That's it, there is no wiggle room for the Amphur office to ask for any other documentation, if you had those documents you should have been married.

They could have argued that you needed a translator, they could have insisted you provided two witnesses, they could not ask for extra documents.

[lopburi3]

In that case they probably did not have a clue (or last foreigner was divorced so had it on mind) and all you need to do is visit another office.

[chooka]

You are not the father under Thai law

You are the father under Australian law

Thanks now I understand. Doe's give you kind of a sick feeling when after all these years you actually always thought you were the child's father only to find out you are not until a complete stranger tells you that you are. Maybe this is the reason why they have problems with fathers in Thailand not paying support for thier kids as they haven't been proven to be the dads even tho registered on the cert as the father.

[ludditeman]

You are not the father under Thai law

You are the father under Australian law

Thanks now I understand. Doe's give you kind of a sick feeling when after all these years you actually always thought you were the child's father only to find out you are not until a complete stranger tells you that you are. Maybe this is the reason why they have problems with fathers in Thailand not paying support for thier kids as they haven't been proven to be the dads even tho registered on the cert as the father.

I think the Thai point of view is that a lady can't trap a man into fatherhood and maintenance payments by 'accidentally' becoming pregnant.

He must either marry her first, marry her after or confirm to a court that he is the father.

A little bit fairer than the western world IMHO, as the man must clearly give his consent to becoming a father.

It's not just up to her. Additionally, once he is officially the father, she can't steal his child as he automatically gets 50% custody.

At the moment, in Thailand, your gf could just move out, and never allow you to see her child again.

Edited November 5, 2011 by ludditeman

[terryq]

In the matter of paternity the Thai family court acts on behalf of a minor too young to understand the proceedings, you and your defacto both state via paperwork that you are the parents of the child and the judge will make a ruling in formal court.

In my experience the officials at the court are very helpful, visit with your wife. If you think about it you did the same at the Australian Embassy, you showed the Thai birth cert. with your name as father and you agreed that you were the father.

A mother can basically put any name as father on a birth certificate in Thailand which is why that person is not automatically assumed to be the legal father. Of course if married any offspring automatically has the husband as legal father.

Hope it all gets sorted soon.

[chooka]

You are not the father under Thai law

You are the father under Australian law

Thanks now I understand. Doe's give you kind of a sick feeling when after all these years you actually always thought you were the child's father only to find out you are not until a complete stranger tells you that you are. Maybe this is the reason why they have problems with fathers in Thailand not paying support for thier kids as they haven't been proven to be the dads even tho registered on the cert as the father.

I think the Thai point of view is that a lady can't trap a man into fatherhood and maintenance payments by 'accidentally' becoming pregnant.

He must either marry her first, marry her after or confirm to a court that he is the father.

A little bit fairer than the western world IMHO, as the man must clearly give his consent to becoming a father.

It's not just up to her. Additionally, once he is officially the father, she can't steal his child as he automatically gets 50% custody.

At the moment, in Thailand, your gf could just move out, and never allow you to see her child again.

There is probably a fair percentage of fathers out there that are not aware of this and are just like I was. Sign the birth registration papers and there you have it you are a father ut in reality myself and all the others oblivious to this are not infact fathers at all. Guess all those farangs that have been accused of being deadbeat dads for buggering off are not really as such.

[chooka]

I have another question on this. If I am not legally recognised as the father of my son, why would the Thai Consulate in Melbourne, Australia grant me a 1 yr multiple entry visa on family grounds. To prove I was the father of a child in Thailand all I had to do was show a copy of the Thai birth certificate as evidence. These were Thai people and not aussies working there. They recognised me as the legal father.

[PoorSucker]

Immigration in Thailand are much more stricter than MFA.