Floodwater Spreading Into Inner Bangkok

[ryladie99]

... this is as watching a train wreck, in slow motion ... and billions of m3 of water still to pass ... we evacuated, then returned in the middle of last week.

... now believing only what we see and but half of what we hear, we are preparing to re-evacuate.

... our lives and businesses are suspended in a vacuum of freakish incompetence ... what could possibly sabotage the resources available in this modern age of technology and communication?

... this is all so ... absurd.

I am in the same situation: re-evacuate. The kind of information is freacky, unreliable and made by incompetents! When will we finally know the real situation? Is there anyone at FROC competent enough to tell the truth to the people? It is reaaly absurd...

WOW! so sorry to hear for both of you. Where do you live?

I am so Sorry for you both, Keep your sanity alive at least you have the ability to evacuate Good luck and this is the way every Government and politicians tell you bit by bit...My family and I are preparing for the Earthquake that will happen pretty soon after I heard the news today. The city hall is telling me every time I attend the meeting to be ready for the Big one 8 to 9 points and no helps at least the whole 2 weeks. We are alone..if the building is falling apart...at least my family and I can camp in our backyard but, we are not sure about our safety anything can goes when the disaster happens. My take and opinion..

[scotto]

You want them to tell the truth?

It would panick millions of people,

Governments never ever tell the truth!!

Treat everybody like mushrooms

keep them in the dark and feed them bullsh%t.

[waza]

I been trying to talk my Mia to exit BKK, she has relatives in Samed, she arrived back in BKK last night.

Me:

I think you should go to Samed honey, today

the flood will cut off electricy so you cant work there anyway

Dont argue just do it honey, and take junior

Tawan Srikasee says

my area is ok honey TYfor your concerns

some areas in the critical list but not mine

it's very dry here and also I was looking when the planes flew around BKK terday

watched news last , Sathupradit should be ok

Edited November 7, 2011 by metisdead
Please do not post in all capital letters, bold, unusual fonts, sizes or colors. It can be difficult to read.

[ptrk64]

"Or even moving the entire city."

How about waiting until it actualy happens. More climate change scare-mongering.

Or how about actually understanding the science and accepting the fact that it's not scare mongering but reality. Even some of the more vocal climate change skeptics, UC Berkeley professor Richard Muller, are now accepting that climate change is actually happening. In a report funded by some of the more diehard skeptics, the Koch brothers, he found that the data that proves climate change is correct. For more on this: http://news.discovery.com/earth/skeptic-led-study-ends-up-supporting-global-warming-evidence-111024.html and the study it self here http://www.berkeleyearth.org/resources.php

[rockderk]

Floods show what lies ahead for sinking Bangkok

by Amelie Bottollier-Depois

BANGKOK, November 7, 2011 (AFP) - The Thai capital, built on swampland, is slowly sinking and the floods currently besieging Bangkok could be merely a foretaste of a grim future as climate change makes its impact felt, experts say.

The low-lying metropolis lies just 30 kilometres (18 miles) north of the Gulf of Thailand, where various experts forecast sea level will rise by 19 to 29 centimetres (7 to 11 inches) by 2050 as a result of global warming.

Water levels would also increase in Bangkok's main Chao Phraya river, which already overflows regularly.

If no action is taken to protect the city, "in 50 years... most of Bangkok will be below sea level," said Anond Snidvongs, a climate change expert at the capital's Chulalongkorn University.

But global warming is not the only threat. The capital's gradual sinking has also been blamed on years of aggressive groundwater extraction to meet the growing needs of the city's factories and its 12 million inhabitants.

As a result Bangkok was sinking by 10 centimetres a year in the late 1970s, according to a study published last year by the World Bank, the Asian Development Bank (ADB) and the Japan Bank for International Cooperation.

That rate has since dropped to less than one centimetre annually, they said, thanks to government measures to control groundwater pumping.

If those efforts continued, the report authors said, they hoped the subsidence rate could slow by another 10 percent each year.

But Anond disputed their projections, saying Bangkok was still sinking at "an alarming rate" of one to three centimetres per year.

While scientists may argue over the exact figures, they agree about what lies in store for the sprawling megacity.

"There is no going back. The city is not going to rise again," said the ADB's lead climate change specialist David McCauley.

Faced with the combined threats of land subsidence and rising temperatures and sea levels, the World Bank has predicted that Bangkok's flood risk will increase four-fold from now by 2050.

And the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development has classified the Thai capital among the 10 cities in the world facing the biggest potential impact from coastal flooding by 2070.

For now, Bangkok is relying on a complex system of dykes, canals, locks and pumping stations to keep the rising waters at bay.

The flood protection efforts, however, failed to prevent an onslaught of run-off water from the north from swamping at least one-fifth of the capital.

The murky floodwaters, triggered by three months of heavy monsoon rains, are edging in on Bangkok's glitzy downtown area, threatening luxury hotels, office buildings and shopping malls.

Rapid urbanisation is one reason why the inundations are affecting the sprawling city so badly, according to experts.

As the area that needs flood protection gets larger and more built-up, the water "has fewer places to go", said Francois Molle, a water management expert at France's Institut de Recherche pour le Developpement.

Molle said that in the long term, Bangkok would eventually be under water. "The only question is when."

Experts say Thai authorities must address the capital's land use and planning challenges and consider relocating factories or industrial parks in flood-prone areas.

Or even moving the entire city.

"It may be appropriate for the people who want to be dry 24 hours a day, 365 days a year, to be setting up a new city," said Anond.

"We do have areas where we can develop a new city that would be completely dry. There's a lot of land in this country," he said.

It may sound like a drastic scenario, but there is little doubt that Bangkok will have to act if it wants to avoid the fate of the fabled sunken city of Atlantis.

"To remain where it is, the city will need better protection," said Robert Nicholls, a professor of coastal engineering at Britain's University of Southampton.

He said he expected Bangkok's current flood misery to "trigger massive investment in defences over the next 10 to 20 years".

Dealing with the phenomenon will be expensive elsewhere too. Across the Asia-Pacific region the ADB has estimated it will cost a minimum of $10 billion a year to adapt to climate change.

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2011-11-07

More like trigger massive investment in Pattaya...Get some now while you can

[ptrk64]

Agreed more scare mongering over man made Global Warming/Climate Change, and you keep seeing it mentioned over and over. The Man Made Global Warming threat/scare is a big hoax that made Al Gore of USA and many others rich. The scare saying Global Warming is causing sea level to rise, is just the same. Over the past 1000 years, sea levels have been rising, but over the past 10 years, sea levels have gone down. The people in the press are spreading this hoax because of their own stupidity and lack of true journalistic professionalism.

Global Warming/Climate Change-name changed because there was no Global Warming, was suppose to cause world wide droughts, yet we are seeing world wide record rain and snowfall which has and is resulting in world wide flooding of many countries.

If you believe it a hoax read this first: http://www.berkeleyearth.org/resources.php And no it's not a yet another Al Gore etc. study but rather a study from some of the more vocal climate change critics.

[sfbandung]

"Or even moving the entire city."

How about waiting until it actualy happens. More climate change scare-mongering.

Or how about actually understanding the science and accepting the fact that it's not scare mongering but reality. Even some of the more vocal climate change skeptics, UC Berkeley professor Richard Muller, are now accepting that climate change is actually happening. In a report funded by some of the more diehard skeptics, the Koch brothers, he found that the data that proves climate change is correct. For more on this: http://news.discover...nce-111024.html and the study it self here http://www.berkeleye...g/resources.php

This probably isn't the forum but my main point was that it isn't relevant now and tossing it up is a furphy.

The climate is changing, it always does. It's been doing it for hundreds of thousands of years. Al Gore and his mates propose that it is man-made. That's the debate and it's a long way from over.

[EastSaxCol]

My way of keeping abreast of , and understanding, what is a frighteningly confusing situation for many.

[hammered]

The big question is really about the future of Bangkok and what it will mean for others living nearby. One article argues and probably quite accurately that for Bangkok to survive it needs better protection. However, the more walls etc that get built just guarantee the surrounding areas just outside will suffer worse and longer. Quite how that potential conundrum is addressed remains to be answered.

[Pontare]

"Or even moving the entire city."

How about waiting until it actualy happens. More climate change scare-mongering.

It's a bit late then isn't it? Anyways it's perfectly fine to oppose the idea of man made climate changes, but all scientists expects sea levels to be rising. The argument about who is making it rise doesn't really matter when you're knee deep in sea water in inner Bangkok.

[philliphn]

Go to Florida!

[hammered]

"Or even moving the entire city."

How about waiting until it actualy happens. More climate change scare-mongering.

Like they did with this flood? Splendid idea. You seem to be qualified to lead the Irrigation Department. I suggest you move in right away. It's on Sam Sen, next to the river. Just remember to bring rubber boots and a snorkle, just in case

I was offered the head of FROC, it seems I was over qualified.

I get bored with the old "climate change" chestnut being thrown up all the time.

There is no doubt whatsoever that this catastrophe has been incredibly poorly handled.Just look back at all the announcements saying that Inner Bangkok was safe.

Look back at the unusually low release of water from the dams March to July. It was only before March that it was at normal level and only from August that it was higher than normal release, when it was a little too late and guranteed to cause flooding.

[khaowong1]

... this is as watching a train wreck, in slow motion ... and billions of m3 of water still to pass ... we evacuated, then returned in the middle of last week.

... now believing only what we see and but half of what we hear, we are preparing to re-evacuate.

... our lives and businesses are suspended in a vacuum of freakish incompetence ... what could possibly sabotage the resources available in this modern age of technology and communication?

... this is all so ... absurd.

If i was back in Phoenix Arizona, I would be having a good laugh at all the keystone cop antics here. But, I'm here and even though I still think they are funny to watch, I feel for all the people who have to put up with their crap.

[renaissanc]

The Thai Government better start to pump huge amounts of money into Pattaya for a Sky Train, an underground system, designated areas for government departments, Commecial parks for new Office buildings, etc... etc... because Pattaya will be the capital city when Bangkok goes "waterworld"

Doing this will be far cheaper that trying to save a doomed city. I can see Pattaya becoming more like Rio in Brazil (But not quite as nice).

With the ultra-high corruption in Pattaya being as it is, if Pattaya is developed as you suggest, even lowly traffic police and government officials will soon be driving platinum- and gold-plated cars.

Seriously though, Pattaya will be flooded by the sea eventually too.

[sfbandung]

"Or even moving the entire city."

How about waiting until it actualy happens. More climate change scare-mongering.

Like they did with this flood? Splendid idea. You seem to be qualified to lead the Irrigation Department. I suggest you move in right away. It's on Sam Sen, next to the river. Just remember to bring rubber boots and a snorkle, just in case

I was offered the head of FROC, it seems I was over qualified.

I get bored with the old "climate change" chestnut being thrown up all the time.

There is no doubt whatsoever that this catastrophe has been incredibly poorly handled.Just look back at all the announcements saying that Inner Bangkok was safe.

Look back at the unusually low release of water from the dams March to July. It was only before March that it was at normal level and only from August that it was higher than normal release, when it was a little too late and guranteed to cause flooding.

Without excusing anything that has gone on here, a similar thing happened in Brisbane. They let Wivenhoe dam get higher and higher and decided way too late that they needed to let some water out. And Wivenhoe was built specifically for flood mitigation. The so called experts then let it get so full it actually exacerbated the problem.

[Thai at Heart]

If bangkok has been sinking 10cm per year since the 70's and since then at a somewhat slower rate, then how high exactly are the flood walls above sea level???? Wouldn't they need to be continually raising the flood walls just to keep up? A bit less than the 2.5m that has been bandied around as a number I presume

As a result Bangkok was sinking by 10 centimetres a year in the late 1970s, according to a study published last year by the World Bank, the Asian Development Bank (ADB) and the Japan Bank for International Cooperation.

That rate has since dropped to less than one centimetre annually, they said, thanks to government measures to control groundwater pumping.

If those efforts continued, the report authors said, they hoped the subsidence rate could slow by another 10 percent each year.

Edited November 7, 2011 by Thai at Heart

[RickBradford]

Agreed more scare mongering over man made Global Warming/Climate Change, and you keep seeing it mentioned over and over. The Man Made Global Warming threat/scare is a big hoax that made Al Gore of USA and many others rich. The scare saying Global Warming is causing sea level to rise, is just the same. Over the past 1000 years, sea levels have been rising, but over the past 10 years, sea levels have gone down. The people in the press are spreading this hoax because of their own stupidity and lack of true journalistic professionalism.

Global Warming/Climate Change-name changed because there was no Global Warming, was suppose to cause world wide droughts, yet we are seeing world wide record rain and snowfall which has and is resulting in world wide flooding of many countries.

If you believe it a hoax read this first: http://www.berkeleye...g/resources.php And no it's not a yet another Al Gore etc. study but rather a study from some of the more vocal climate change critics.

Nice try, but Muller specifically said that his group was looking at temperatures, not as to whether human activities are causing it.

They were able to conclude, however: "The human component of global warming may be somewhat overestimated."

They should be commended for their honesty and skepticism.

[Markaew]

... this is as watching a train wreck, in slow motion ... and billions of m3 of water still to pass ... we evacuated, then returned in the middle of last week.

... now believing only what we see and but half of what we hear, we are preparing to re-evacuate.

... our lives and businesses are suspended in a vacuum of freakish incompetence ... what could possibly sabotage the resources available in this modern age of technology and communication?

... this is all so ... absurd.

I am in the same situation: re-evacuate. The kind of information is freacky, unreliable and made by incompetents! When will we finally know the real situation? Is there anyone at FROC competent enough to tell the truth to the people? It is reaaly absurd...

you wherein the army before? take care your family like you did your buddy's don't wine just take care of the situation

I can't figure out if you are drunk or thai.

[Markaew]

The Thai Government better start to pump huge amounts of money into Pattaya for a Sky Train, an underground system, designated areas for government departments, Commecial parks for new Office buildings, etc... etc... because Pattaya will be the capital city when Bangkok goes "waterworld"

Doing this will be far cheaper that trying to save a doomed city. I can see Pattaya becoming more like Rio in Brazil (But not quite as nice).

i have to leave this site now because to many moron here... Jesus or budha what can Leo do pattaya addicts just check with your doctor

Bye

[EastSaxCol]

Without excusing anything that has gone on here, a similar thing happened in Brisbane. They let Wivenhoe dam get higher and higher and decided way too late that they needed to let some water out. And Wivenhoe was built specifically for flood mitigation. The so called experts then let it get so full it actually exacerbated the problem.

Off topic, but I come from Wivenhoe, Nr Colchester. Amazing that I didn' t know before there was a Wivenhoe in Aus.

As for mention Pattaya disappearing into the sea in another post ... well , there are those who wouldn't think that such a bad thing.

Edited November 7, 2011 by EastSaxCol

[bladesama]

global warming will not make bangkok sink, the sea level is not rising that quickly.

bangkok is built on marsh land yes? wouldnt it make more sense that the weight of the city, the concrete, the buildings etc is causing more force on the marshland which makes the ground under it push sideways , like its being flattened, which then hastens the erosion? below sea level etc? much the same as mountains are created.. tectonic plates hit each other, one goes up, one goes down, forcing the land to push upwards and create mountains.. think of it in a horizontal fashion instead of vertical, same effect.... you also got to add to the equation whats being taken out from underneath too, such as water etc which causes more room for land to be pushed down, and weakening the earth around it, making it push sideways even quicker

global warming has little or not effect on the land sinking

thats my take on it

Edited November 7, 2011 by bladesama

[Markaew]

Bangkok Governor Vows to Protect All 50 Districts from Flooding

The Bangkok governor expects officials will be able to drain floodwater off all major roads within two weeks should the Big Bag dike prove effective in slowing down floodwater.

Bangkok Governor Sukhumbhand Paribatra said the flood situation will improve should the Big Bag barrier prove effective in slowing down floodwater, which is currently spreading deeper into the capital.

He added if no additional water flows in during the next two weeks, officials will be able to drain water off of all major roads and will then continue their work in the smaller streets.

Sukhumbhand also pledged to protect all 50 Bangkok districts from flooding and said his office will work closely with the Royal Irrigation Department in expediting floodwater drainage through the Bang Pakong and Tha Chin rivers, and the Mahachai Canal.

Meanwhile, he said drainage through eastern flood ways via the lower Sam Wa Canal has seen more progress after additional pumps were installed.

The Bangkok governor revealed that he will be attending a meeting with the Flood Relief Operations Center today and may request more pumps.

-- Tan Network 2011-11-07

Too late

[soidog52]

"Unfortunately we have to do our own flood modelling/predictions as officials are unable, incapable or unwilling to do it."

Modeling and prediction is what I have been doing to walk on many BKK sidewalks and inside malls. I must model and predict where the person/ people in front of me will turn, stop, or even walk backward into me.

Hate to say it but the incompetence in government is a reflection of much of society with notable exceptions.

First hand account: I just got back from picking up a friend at Viphavadee 62. He had to take a boat to the on ramp for the tollway. The water is getting very close to Din Daeng on Viphavadee road. It is more south than Suttisan and the Thai Airways building. There is also a klong that can be seen from the South bound lane of the tollway, South of Suttisan that is just about to brim over. No idea the name of that klong. I have been making this trip everyday to Don Muang and my personal observation has been 1/2 to 1 Kilometer movement south per day. Do the math and you can make a better guess of when it will hit Sukhumvit. My guess is Victory Monument and Saphan Kwai by tomorrow. Just a guess.

[samuiwonder]

Another issue is looming. What are landlords going to do about enforcing lease contracts on properties in Bangkok. We had a warehouse there that we evacuated due to flood threat and the landlord is still expecting us to pay rent! If I am experiencing this problem, think of the other thousands of lessees that will be facing the same problems. The courts will be clogged up for years!

[bladesama]

still off topic, but i will add to my previous comment

in some areas when you build a house, every 10 to 20 years you need to reblock the stumps the house sits on because it sinks.

this is the same thing happening to bangkok, however there is no stumps, there is nothing they can do about this,

they will come up with ideas, and plans, but nothing man made will have any effect whatsoever on this.

bangkok will eventually stop sinking, but that will be only because of the land underneath it will eventually push down enough so that it is compacted down and will stop the weight.

i predict this will end up with the north end of bangkok dropping a little bit, and the south end dropping a lot so that it is then on a slope, just like when you go to a beach.. you enter the water, and the more you go in, the deeper you get

Edited November 7, 2011 by bladesama

[sprq]

... this is as watching a train wreck, in slow motion ... and billions of m3 of water still to pass ... we evacuated, then returned in the middle of last week.

... now believing only what we see and but half of what we hear, we are preparing to re-evacuate.

... our lives and businesses are suspended in a vacuum of freakish incompetence ... what could possibly sabotage the resources available in this modern age of technology and communication?

... this is all so ... absurd.

Yes, absolutely. Believe only what you see, in this miasma of stunning incompetence. I say the flood is going to slowly creep all the way through downtown: Saphankwai today, Victory Monument two days later, Siam Square within a week, and so on. As to the depth, I've no idea.

Slo-mo tsunami, trickling gradually southwards, day by day.

[parmo1]

you wherein the army before? take care your family like you did your buddy's don't wine just take care of the situation

Was this post made by an automatic translator from Thai ? I haven't the foggiest what it means

Edited November 7, 2011 by parmo1

[bladesama]

... this is as watching a train wreck, in slow motion ... and billions of m3 of water still to pass ... we evacuated, then returned in the middle of last week.

... now believing only what we see and but half of what we hear, we are preparing to re-evacuate.

... our lives and businesses are suspended in a vacuum of freakish incompetence ... what could possibly sabotage the resources available in this modern age of technology and communication?

... this is all so ... absurd.

Yes, absolutely. Believe only what you see, in this miasma of stunning incompetence. I say the flood is going to slowly creep all the way through downtown: Saphankwai today, Victory Monument two days later, Siam Square within a week, and so on. As to the depth, I've no idea.

Slo-mo tsunami, trickling gradually southwards, day by day.

i agree, it will not be long before lat phrao, ramkhamhaeng and bangkapi are underwater too

[bladesama]

you wherein the army before? take care your family like you did your buddy's don't wine just take care of the situation

Was this post made my an automatic translator from Thai ? I haven't a clue what it is saying

i understand it... they saying to take care of their family like they take care of their comrades... dont complain just do what it takes to handle the situation

[lhvdberg]

Give it to the Dutch , they know what to do , their country has big surfaces UNDER sea level , great water managing experts.

Good idea. We are famous for our water management! But that also takes time. And now that is something Bangkok doesnt have. The longer this take the more damage this gives. We see the water as a problem now, but what problems will you see when the water is gone. Houses that are so damaged that they should be rebuild. I feel sorry for all the people who will go back home when the water is gone and they will face all the things they lost.

I think it's now time to put the hands together for Yellow and Red to become Orange, to show they love Thailand and that they are Real Thai persons. Yellow is now already shouting that the New Goverment is doing so much wrong, but face it, all problems are not from the last 3 or 4 months. Problems started because of lack of service or wrong constructions, or no construction at all. The last years the Goverment did nothing to solve this kind of problems. And yes Thaksin is now the leader, but she had this as a goodbye present from the incompetent goverment who has been in power for the last years.

In my area there is a budget for service, milions of baths going through hands. I guess the money runs like water, but only to the wrong places.