I Ordered A Delay In The Release Of Water From Dam: Agriculture Minister Theera

[SICHONSTEVE]

Doesn't the Nation have any journalists that can write a coherent article? It seems like the two journalists in this case wrote every second paragraph with out knowing what the previous paragraph said.

The key questions that weren't asked (or weren't reported): When did he order it? Did he make the decision on his own? I assume he was the one that said "I will take responsibility".

As far as the the meteorological department only being able to forecast a week in advance, even I had a pretty good idea 2 weeks before hand that the tropical storms were going to cause a lot of rain in the North and North East. There are websites that track and predict tropical storms and it was quite clear that these ones could affect Thailand as soon as they started forming near the Philippines. Even with a weeks notice they could have started releasing some water before the storms actually hit Thailand.

"Even with a weeks notice they could have started releasing some water before the storms actually hit Thailand".

Right!!! But they didn't, did they!!! They were trying to protect the rice crops of those imbeciles that put them into power!!!

What do you get when you have incompetents making key decisions?? - wrong and oft highly costly mistakes!!!

They not only failed to save their crops but they flooded a third of Thailand in the process and in doing so multiplied the problems several fold!!

There is one decision that this moron can take right now and that is to tender his resignation immediately!!.

I am guessing that he won't though as he hasn't obtained his "booty" yet from the donations or flood relief money (I presume he hasn't, that is) as maybe he already has!!!.

[Roachiebkk]

Three crops per year on the same parcel?!?!? Even two crops per year is dicey. Soil need to be replenished, rejuvenated. Thais know nothing about composting and very little about mulching. Each year, many rice farmers burn most parts of the rice plant left over after harvesting. . Just as important, there are a slew of crops that are as well, or better suited to Thailand's climate/soil conditions. I've listed them before, so I'll just make a web page, rather than list them all again.

Maidu,

Bring these opinions over to the Farming Forum. It will cause a long discussion. I compost manures and I grow rice but the two do not necessary work together. The issue is the health of the soil but inundation with water kills most of the microbes and fills the air pockets that compost creates. IMHO it is not quite that easy. Having lived in the central provinces and seen 3 crops consistently produced I believe it is better planned than you give credit. Rice depletes the soil, obviously. Silica being one of the trace elements that is lost. Burning the stubble does put some of that back. The fertiliser used in the central is carefully applied based on both experience and analysis.

No it is not ideal to plant 3 times a year, and there are alternatives such as the Kings 30-30-30-10 plans for land usage. But if you can ever get rural Thai people to move away from rice as the staple for every meal I will be the first to congratulate you.

On the Ag Minister admission, I add my congratualtions as well, accepting responsible is part of his job which on balance I think he is doing well. I have known of others who have made public admissions of guilt on behalf of others, often falling on a golden sword, but this is Thailand!

Isaan Aussie.

Brilliant, well thought out and realistic. Peeps must also realise that Thailand is the largest exporter of rice in the world so aside from the fact rice in its many forms is a staple of Thai diet it also brings in a lot of money from overseas.

[peterdk]

Satit Wongnongtaey, another Democrat MP, also questioned the Bt355.19 billion that the government has earmarked for flood recovery and flood-prevention measures.

"It seems to be a large amount compared to the total budget of Bt2.38 trillion, but details of the project point the other way," he noted.

He pointed out that the actual spending plan for flood recovery was about Bt200 billion, comprising a central fund of Bt120 billion, provincial fund of Bt10 billion and an emergency fund of Bt68.7 billion.

What is the additional Bt155.19 for ?? Is it for prevention measures such as providing linings to protect assets ... such as the pockets of the politicians???

Tried helping you out here, even highlighted and underlined the obvious.

As said flood recovery, nicely accounted for, being Bt200 billion.

So leftovers Bt155.19 billion must be flood prevention.

[AleG]

Brilliant, well thought out and realistic. Peeps must also realise that Thailand is the largest exporter of rice in the world so aside from the fact rice in its many forms is a staple of Thai diet it also brings in a lot of money from overseas.

Does it? Specially with the new pledge scheme?

I don't have the numbers, so I'm willing to be corrected, but if the subsidy paid by the government is more or less twice the international market value for rice, I don't see how this can end in anything but a budget black hole; that is to say, the rice from the pledge scheme is bought high and sold low (or not sold at all) It would seem to me that the Thai economy will lose money on every ton of rice exported.

[Samuian]

He should do the honorable thing and retire himself--permanently.

Yeah he should straight to jail, for criminal negligence!

yeah, hang 'em high! Never ask who's orders or suggestions he/they/the Department of Irrigation followed!

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I don't know whether the Ag Minister here, who finally made this public admission, is really the responsible party here... I'd wager it's just as likely he's being thrown out as a scapegoat to protect other leaders in the government who were likely the moving parties here.

But what's more important about this article and post, it's that it's finally a public admission from the government that their own actions contributed to the extent of the current flooding crisis...and that this whole national tragedy wasn't just a "natural" disaster but also partially a man-made one.

Then add to that the government's thus far miserable response to coping with the floods, and you have a pretty big pile of .... laid by those currently in charge... But will the Thais who vote understand this and remember it... probably not.

[SICHONSTEVE]

He should do the honorable thing and retire himself--permanently.

Yeah he should straight to jail, for criminal negligence!

yeah, hang 'em high! Never ask who's orders or suggestions he/they/the Department of Irrigation followed!

Well they are not going to get Thaksin are they!!!.

[Emptyset]

And what if the water had been released, the rice crop destroyed and the following weeks, the rain had stopped? I know what the sentiment would be. the same ignorant loathesome calls for the minister's suicide and jailing. Grow up.

Its a big mistake and with huge consequence. The whole government should step down, or the guy should be held personal responsible.

They are paid good (or steal good) so if they make mistakes they should pay for it too. The is a reason that people like that earn more money. That is because they have more responsibility. This is like saying sorry but i wont quit or feel responsible.

Must be tough to see your beloved reds the cause of this whole mess. They could no longer deny it. Yingluck with her blaming the previous government

This guy was also the Agriculture Min under the previous govt, you know.

[ginjag]

And what if the water had been released, the rice crop destroyed and the following weeks, the rain had stopped? I know what the sentiment would be. the same ignorant loathesome calls for the minister's suicide and jailing. Grow up.

Would you swap your statement, ??? or you then think this situ is a better outcome, it's you that should get real and grow up. 1 crop against this ???? change your drink !!!

[Soupdragon]

at last they found the scapegote for cooling down the pressure on PM. good move.

Who ordered him to admit he gave the order?

No way he did this out of conscience.

[edwinchester]

Stop the press'....A Thai official actually being accountable and admitting it was his desicion......a few more like him and there is hope for Thailand....very impressed..

Now comes the 'difficult' part. Usually after such a catastrophic decision one either resigns or is dismissed from high government position. Owning up and accountability seem to be two different things here so I await his fate in anticipation.

[Orac]

I don't know whether the Ag Minister here, who finally made this public admission, is really the responsible party here... I'd wager it's just as likely he's being thrown out as a scapegoat to protect other leaders in the government who were likely the moving parties here.

But what's more important about this article and post, it's that it's finally a public admission from the government that their own actions contributed to the extent of the current flooding crisis...and that this whole national tragedy wasn't just a "natural" disaster but also partially a man-made one.

Then add to that the government's thus far miserable response to coping with the floods, and you have a pretty big pile of .... laid by those currently in charge... But will the Thais who vote understand this and remember it... probably not.

The article doesn't say when the decision was made so it needs to be born in mind that he was also the Minister for Agriculture in the previous administration so was apparently seen by the Abhisit as the right man for the job as well - he certainly has all the right qualifications for it.

[robblok]

And what if the water had been released, the rice crop destroyed and the following weeks, the rain had stopped? I know what the sentiment would be. the same ignorant loathesome calls for the minister's suicide and jailing. Grow up.

Its a big mistake and with huge consequence. The whole government should step down, or the guy should be held personal responsible.

They are paid good (or steal good) so if they make mistakes they should pay for it too. The is a reason that people like that earn more money. That is because they have more responsibility. This is like saying sorry but i wont quit or feel responsible.

Must be tough to see your beloved reds the cause of this whole mess. They could no longer deny it. Yingluck with her blaming the previous government

This guy was also the Agriculture Min under the previous govt, you know.

I am not sure about that statement. Could you back it up ? But even if its true Yingluck as head of the government is responsible.

[lannarebirth]

Stop the press'....A Thai official actually being accountable and admitting it was his desicion......a few more like him and there is hope for Thailand....very impressed..

Now comes the 'difficult' part. Usually after such a catastrophic decision one either resigns or is dismissed from high government position. Owning up and accountability seem to be two different things here so I await his fate in anticipation.

Well, the truth is neither ever occur here, which is what makes the whole story suspect. My guess is some facts were about to come to light from another direction and this is some sort of damage control thrown together at the last minute.

[jackdawson]

Furthermore, the Ag. guy has control of the dams?

[animatic]

He should do the honorable thing and retire himself--permanently.

Yeah he should straight to jail, for criminal negligence!

I think zydeco was hinting at public Sepuku in the square at Central World.

530 dead and he gets to simply retire and clip coupons?

Edited November 11, 2011 by animatic

[Orac]

Furthermore, the Ag. guy has control of the dams?

The Ministry of Agriculture is responsible for the Royal Irrigation Department who I assume have considerable sway over what goes on at the dams even if they are actually controlled by EGAT.

[beano2274]

He should do the honorable thing and retire himself--permanently.

Yeah he should straight to jail, for criminal negligence!

I think zydeco was hinting at public Sepuku in the square at Central World.

530 dead and he gets to simply retire and clip coupons?

Retire with a fat pension, and a big payout from the Government as a thank you for his services.

[Crushdepth]

Why be so harsh in judgement. If he had let water release from dams - and it turned out to be a dry latter part of the monsoon, then he would be blamed not storing enough water for the 2nd or 3rd rice crop.

Why let the dams get that full in the first place? Its basic risk management. And why is a politician making decisions about dam water levels at all? This should be done by technical officials who know what the hell they are doing. Political interference is a large part of the problem. This guy should go.

[sparebox2]

So it is all proven now.

Mr. Theera greedy in wanted the 3rd harvest have caused 500+ life, and billion in damage.

Put him on trial, let him be responsible. I think he will to to jail for life, if not excuted immediately.

[animatic]

I commented a long time ago, that some of the rice fields that would have been affected belonged to a certain Mr Thaksin, as I heard it from some Thai friends, seems pressure was put on this Minister to wait so Mr. Thaksin and his friends could get their crops harvested.

Quid pro quo to the upcountry, rice-mafia, barons for delivering the vote to get PTP into office. You don't really think the average Thai voted for them without being directed to do so by their local puyais did you?

Like Bush letting oil prices rise in his last year in office for the backend payback to big oil for keeping him on office. But the Thais want theirs right up front, in the 1st possible chance to do so, unseemly or not; maybe the short term nature of most Thai governments makes this mandatory...

So this is the other shoe dropping, and the first sacraficial politician/lamb of this political cycle. But this is a MUCH bigger cock-up than most face.

Edited November 11, 2011 by animatic

[unanimosity]

I don't know whether the Ag Minister here, who finally made this public admission, is really the responsible party here... I'd wager it's just as likely he's being thrown out as a scapegoat to protect other leaders in the government who were likely the moving parties here.

But what's more important about this article and post, it's that it's finally a public admission from the government that their own actions contributed to the extent of the current flooding crisis...and that this whole national tragedy wasn't just a "natural" disaster but also partially a man-made one.

Then add to that the government's thus far miserable response to coping with the floods, and you have a pretty big pile of .... laid by those currently in charge... But will the Thais who vote understand this and remember it... probably not.

Who are the major insurance players here? Could it have been a way to save insurance claims liabilities paid to victims by classifying it as a man-made disaster rather than an act of God? Otherwise, this could cause a meltdown of insurance companies which can have catastrophic effects on the economy; not to mention face.

[SICHONSTEVE]

And what if the water had been released, the rice crop destroyed and the following weeks, the rain had stopped? I know what the sentiment would be. the same ignorant loathesome calls for the minister's suicide and jailing. Grow up.

Its a big mistake and with huge consequence. The whole government should step down, or the guy should be held personal responsible.

They are paid good (or steal good) so if they make mistakes they should pay for it too. The is a reason that people like that earn more money. That is because they have more responsibility. This is like saying sorry but i wont quit or feel responsible.

Must be tough to see your beloved reds the cause of this whole mess. They could no longer deny it. Yingluck with her blaming the previous government

This guy was also the Agriculture Min under the previous govt, you know.

Completely irrelevant my friend!!!! He IS Thaksin's choice as he thought he could look after his farming business interests in the North - what a costly error this has turned out to be - don't worry though, Thaksin will instruct Yingluck to turf him out as he was negligent ie: he failed..........to save his expensive rice crop. Oh yeh!! nearly forgot, he flooded a third of the country as well which resulted in over 500 people losing their lives and milions their homes and jobs!!!:jap:. This is just of secondary concern though as just look at how much money it has cost Khun T, disgraceful act!!!!

[animatic]

Why be so harsh in judgement. If he had let water release from dams - and it turned out to be a dry latter part of the monsoon, then he would be blamed not storing enough water for the 2nd or 3rd rice crop.

Why let the dams get that full in the first place? Its basic risk management. And why is a politician making decisions about dam water levels at all? This should be done by technical officials who know what the hell they are doing. Political interference is a large part of the problem. This guy should go.

And why is a politician making decisions about dam water levels at all?

E X A C T L Y !!!

[animatic]

And what if the water had been released, the rice crop destroyed and the following weeks, the rain had stopped? I know what the sentiment would be. the same ignorant loathesome calls for the minister's suicide and jailing. Grow up.

Its a big mistake and with huge consequence. The whole government should step down, or the guy should be held personal responsible.

They are paid good (or steal good) so if they make mistakes they should pay for it too. The is a reason that people like that earn more money. That is because they have more responsibility. This is like saying sorry but i wont quit or feel responsible.

Must be tough to see your beloved reds the cause of this whole mess. They could no longer deny it. Yingluck with her blaming the previous government

This guy was also the Agriculture Min under the previous govt, you know.

Completely irrelevant my friend!!!! He IS Thaksin's choice as he thought he could look after his farming business interests in the North - what a costly error this has turned out to be - don't worry though, Thaksin will instruct Yingluck to turf him out as he was negligent ie: he failed..........to save his expensive rice crop. Oh yeh!! nearly forgot, he flooded a third of the country as well which resulted in over 500 people losing their lives and milions their homes and jobs!!!:jap:. This is just of secondary concern though as just look at how much money it has cost Khun T, disgraceful act!!!!

He is a 'hold over minister', but who told him to do this?

Someone is over his head too, besides just the sword of Damocles.

[robblok]

And what if the water had been released, the rice crop destroyed and the following weeks, the rain had stopped? I know what the sentiment would be. the same ignorant loathesome calls for the minister's suicide and jailing. Grow up.

Its a big mistake and with huge consequence. The whole government should step down, or the guy should be held personal responsible.

They are paid good (or steal good) so if they make mistakes they should pay for it too. The is a reason that people like that earn more money. That is because they have more responsibility. This is like saying sorry but i wont quit or feel responsible.

Must be tough to see your beloved reds the cause of this whole mess. They could no longer deny it. Yingluck with her blaming the previous government

This guy was also the Agriculture Min under the previous govt, you know.

Completely irrelevant my friend!!!! He IS Thaksin's choice as he thought he could look after his farming business interests in the North - what a costly error this has turned out to be - don't worry though, Thaksin will instruct Yingluck to turf him out as he was negligent ie: he failed..........to save his expensive rice crop. Oh yeh!! nearly forgot, he flooded a third of the country as well which resulted in over 500 people losing their lives and milions their homes and jobs!!!:jap:. This is just of secondary concern though as just look at how much money it has cost Khun T, disgraceful act!!!!

+1

And it seems i was wrong about my statement did not know he stayed on as minister. Not that it makes a difference because now the reds were his paymasters and ordered him to do what he did.

[lannarebirth]

So it is all proven now.

Mr. Theera greedy in wanted the 3rd harvest have caused 500+ life, and billion in damage.

Put him on trial, let him be responsible. I think he will to to jail for life, if not excuted immediately.

No offence meant, but may I infer that you are a recent arrival to the LOS ?

[volk666]

They were releasing a lot less water than they were taking in since August, that's when the floods started in the North. By September dams were almost full, at over 80% capacity, Disasters dept issued its highest level flood alert and that's when Theera gave this order, it was reported in Thai press, so they were still releasing less than taking in and then the hell broke loose.

I think the mismanagement here was in not spreading the floods evenly over two-three months but releasing it in one go that created this slow moving tsunami.

The conspiracy theory about Thaksin protecting Arab investors who bought land in Suphanburi is too good to pass. When water was about to be diverted to Suphan Banharn easily prevailed over Phua Thai MPs and they backed off and flooded Ayutthaya instead. Banharn has kept an extremely low profile since then, so did Theera, and, more importantly, so did Thaksin.

It's a mighty big ace the elites are holding against them - selling rice land to foreigners and flooding half the country to protect them. They are holding Thaksin, Banharn and Yingluck government practically by the balls and if Thaksin doesn't play nice someone will certainly use this conspiracy to incite the next massive uprising.

It is developing in slow motion, Theera's order alone took two months to go public and since Banharn insisted that there will be no punishment for his minster it's just the beginning.

New round of civil unrest is in nobody's interest but PT can't use this reason to goad the Democrats in accepting responsibility for floods, someone is going to snap and bring this new allegation against Thaksin into the public arena, and I don't mean Manager website no one takes seriously.

They are already asking YL to quit, this smells trouble.

[Orac]

This guy was also the Agriculture Min under the previous govt, you know.

Completely irrelevant my friend!!!! He IS Thaksin's choice as he thought he could look after his farming business interests in the North - what a costly error this has turned out to be - don't worry though, Thaksin will instruct Yingluck to turf him out as he was negligent ie: he failed..........to save his expensive rice crop. Oh yeh!! nearly forgot, he flooded a third of the country as well which resulted in over 500 people losing their lives and milions their homes and jobs!!!:jap:. This is just of secondary concern though as just look at how much money it has cost Khun T, disgraceful act!!!!

There is another disgraced politician who could be in the firing line as well whose fiefdom does not appear to have been effected as much as other neighbouring provinces and who Theera is beholden to for his position. There was an interesting article in The Nation a while back as well:

[DP25]

Why let the dams get that full in the first place? Its basic risk management. And why is a politician making decisions about dam water levels at all? This should be done by technical officials who know what the hell they are doing. Political interference is a large part of the problem. This guy should go.

Politicians are involved, because Thailand this year is initiating a massive subsidy for rice that everyone wants a piece of. But instead of them all making huge profits it backfired and they flooded the country