Dutch Offer Thailand Assistance With Water Management

[webfact]

THAI-DUTCH TIES

Dutch offer assistance with water management

JEERAPONG PRASERTPOLKRANG

THE NATION

The Dutch Ambassador and a team of water management experts from The Netherlands met Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra and the 10-strong Strategic Committee for Water Resources Management at Government House yesterday to discuss possible solutions to Thailand's flood crisis.

Committee member Dr Anond Snidwong na Ayudhaya revealed it was initially con?cluded that a water seminar be hosted early next year and Thai social experts such as Chulalongkorn University (CU) political scientist Surachai Wankaew be invited to join the water resources body.

Dutch Ambassador Johannes Andries Boer led a team of water management experts from the Netherlands to talk with Yingluck and rep?resentatives from the strategic committee such as Anond, Seri Supparathit and Veera Wongsaengnak.

Following the meeting, Anond said the Netherlands offered to organise a seminar for knowledge exchange with Thailand in the format of a "Water Fair" in February 2012. But Yingluck would like to organise it earlier, so she assigned Anond to discuss details further with the ambas?sador.

The Netherlands also offered to sign an MOU with Thailand to expand relations from aca?demic cooperation to possible joint investments. The premier initially accepted the offer but wanted to study the details fur?ther, he said.

Anond noted that things had to be done carefully as water management involved not only physical aspects but also bio-systems and social aspects.

"I believe water manage?ment isn't just bringing water engineers to talk but should consider the social conditions in Thailand, which has its specifics. Hence even the best social expert from the Netherlands may not under?stand [things here]," he said.

"We have to consider these points for society to set the direction together and prevent any conflict," he said.

Therefore Thailand would invite its social experts to work with the strategic committee, such as CU Centre for Peace and Conflict Studies director Surachai Wankaew, he said.

Anond said that as well as the offers discussed, the Netherlands also offered to make a flood analysis to try show the strong and weak points of Thailand's water man?agement system.

As several such studies were being carried out but had not crystallised yet, he said this could lead to the setting of clear terms of reference for a study, so that results would lead to practical guidelines that could be implemented.

He said a master plan being formulated by the strategic committee should be complet?ed in nine months - near the end of the 2012 fiscal year - so it could be implemented straight away in the next fiscal year.

-- The Nation 2011-11-15

[zydeco]

The Netherlands also offered to sign an MOU with Thailand to expand relations from academic cooperation to possible joint investments. The premier initially accepted the offer but wanted to study the details further, he said.

Anond noted that things had to be done carefully as water management involved not only physical aspects but also bio-systems and social aspects.

"I believe water management isn't just bringing water engineers to talk but should consider the social conditions in Thailand, which has its specifics. Hence even the best social expert from the Netherlands may not understand [things here]," he said.

Let's see if I can understand what was said in plain English.

The Dutch: We'll give you help but we want trade benefits in return.

Yingluck: What's my share of the kickback?

The Dutch: Your bribe? Where's ours? We can get some of our unemployed engineers to work here, if you pay them.

Thai side: Get stuffed.

[FOODLOVER]

Do the Thais know Dutch-ness?

[Longbow212]

Social conditions in Thailand ??? <deleted>! (read excuse for bribery or saving face because farang water expert knows more than thai politician)

The Dutch offer to sort out the water problems and these morons come out with this bs. Maybe the Thai government doesn't understand water management which has its specifics that play a far more significant role than "social conditions" such as a rivers and klongs having limited capacities and when these are exceeded lives are lost and industries ruined.

[BuckarooBanzai]

"I believe water management isn't just bringing water engineers to talk but should consider the social conditions in Thailand, which has its specifics. Hence even the best social expert from the Netherlands may not understand [things here]," he said.

"We have to consider these points for society to set the direction together and prevent any conflict," he said.

With people like this in positions of power Thailand will never resolve it's problems. Social experts from the Netherlands? What is this guy going on about?

First you look at the science, develop options, and then select options that are effective and acceptable to the population.

You do not look at the social issues first. It is about floods, not social programs.

[zydeco]

Social conditions in Thailand ??? <deleted>! (read excuse for bribery or saving face because farang water expert knows more than thai politician)

The Dutch offer to sort out the water problems and these morons come out with this bs. Maybe the Thai government doesn't understand water management which has its specifics that play a far more significant role than "social conditions" such as a rivers and klongs having limited capacities and when these are exceeded lives are lost and industries ruined.

Both sides are being greedy here. You think the Dutch are are being altruistic in shoving that MOU in from the Thais at this time and positioning themselves for contracts and other special privileges? And of course the Thai government wants bribes for doing for Thailand what they're already paid to do. Sick all the way around.

[Cloggie]

I already see ministers from France and Belgium visiting Holland and tell us how to handle coffee shops (this is where you buy soft drugs in Holland which is legal)

Do you think we - The Dutch - would follow up their recommendation(s)?

We will listen to them, look at their proposal, put in in a drawer and lock it - thank you very much for you opinion!

Same in Thailand, same as anywhere else in the world, don't tell us what to do, we know better.....

Cloggie

[EvilDrSomkid]

Social conditions in Thailand ??? <deleted>! (read excuse for bribery or saving face because farang water expert knows more than thai politician)

The Dutch offer to sort out the water problems and these morons come out with this bs. Maybe the Thai government doesn't understand water management which has its specifics that play a far more significant role than "social conditions" such as a rivers and klongs having limited capacities and when these are exceeded lives are lost and industries ruined.

Spot on. After reading just the first paragraph of the article, it was clear that people here are not interested unless there are big kickbacks to be made. The Dutch are one of the least corrupt in the world, they don't know how to deal with that here.

"FY, we are Thai, we do not listen to foreigners, especially if you know what you are talking about."

[jaltsc]

Maybe the Dutch can also help with the beer shortage. Well, maybe they can introduce real beer. Not the stuff that tries to pass for beer and when sent to a laboratory for analysis comes back with the statement: "Your horse has diabetes".

[robblok]

Social conditions in Thailand ??? <deleted>! (read excuse for bribery or saving face because farang water expert knows more than thai politician)

The Dutch offer to sort out the water problems and these morons come out with this bs. Maybe the Thai government doesn't understand water management which has its specifics that play a far more significant role than "social conditions" such as a rivers and klongs having limited capacities and when these are exceeded lives are lost and industries ruined.

Spot on. After reading just the first paragraph of the article, it was clear that people here are not interested unless there are big kickbacks to be made. The Dutch are one of the least corrupt in the world, they don't know how to deal with that here.

"FY, we are Thai, we do not listen to foreigners, especially if you know what you are talking about."

Correct together with Switzerland we are on the top on non corrupt countries. But i am sure the Dutch help will also mean that Dutch companies help and that would mean income for our country.

Similar as Americans helping with oil, means work for the US too.

The social part i don't understand and i am Dutch.

[Soutpeel]

The social part i don't understand and i am Dutch.

I think it means Thai's dont like cheese and frown upon "coffeeshops".....

[yantzen]

Does Thai knowing were the name 'Nederland' comes from? Without the knowledge of watermanagement there wasn't a 'Nederland'.

Edited November 15, 2011 by metisdead
Large bold font removed.

[hgma]

Bangkokpost comment

watermanagement "IF IT AINT DUTCH IT AINT MUCH"

lets do a survey.......

how many non speaking thaivisa members do have a clue about the word NEDER(land)

The point is this.....we Dutch don't brag......we make an assessment and get it with it TO FINISH.

action speak louder then words.

Does Thai knowing were the name 'Nederland' comes from? Without the knowledge of watermanagement there wasn't a 'Nederland'.

[timewilltell]

There must be some water experts here but it is doubtful they are the most expert in the world in that particular field. However they will be sure to have 'local knowledge' which would be necessary and useful to interlace with any solution. it is doubtful that any Thai can set aside his ego to work alongside the, (to their mind), inferior foreigner and actually give any value to the knowledge the more savvy foreigner might be willing to share. Xenophobia in this country holds it back dramatically. Unfortunately Thais do not appreciate how scant their real understanding and knowledge is in so many areas. (How can they understand properly until they experience and learn deeply rather than just learn and copy solutions without sufficient deep and real understanding of the underlying principles). Unfortunately Thais, on the whole, learn rather shallowly and since this is all they experience, cannot begin to understand the whole picture. Hence the whole way business and the country is run is rather immature, concentrating more on personal gain (financial and egocentric) rather than benefit to the whole.

Any water management plan has to be comprehensive and must of course consider all aspects including the effect on local bio-systems and the full ramifications of any solution. Social implications might include the effect on local farmers or communities which might lose a water supply or get in the way of the proposed route of some new watercourse. Obviously any plan has to consider those issues but in any advanced society there is an understanding of the greater good and it is certain any competent expert will be well aware of most of those issues and if not local would be open to learn the intricacies of the problems here in order to integrate them with the solution..

Will anything concrete be done about this problem? Thailand should expect a thorough and competent examination of the issues and a well thought out effective solution dealing with the expected worst case scenario together with a solid disaster plan should the actual worst case exceed the expected. I don't think the mentality of the people in power will provide that. It involves planning and a long term view - neither of which seem to be particular strong points of the average Thai psyche - come to that even the above average have difficulty. Worse than that would be using the flooding as a mask or excuse for usurping the national funds by kickbacks from the contracts that will inevitably be borne of the solutions that will be picked on the basis of graft rather than effectiveness.

The Dutch obviously want to get in to get the contracts before other countries but will it be the best solution for the country or the solution that provides the most kickbacks that become adopted?

I feel so sad for Thailand struggling with out of control corruption everywhere and scant effort to even bring it under control let alone reduce it. So sad.

[timewilltell]

Bangkokpost comment

watermanagement "IF IT AINT DUTCH IT AINT MUCH"

lets do a survey.......

how many non speaking thaivisa members do have a clue about the word NEDER(land)

The point is this.....we Dutch don't brag......we make an assessment and get it with it TO FINISH.

action speak louder then words.

Does Thai knowing were the name 'Nederland' comes from? Without the knowledge of watermanagement there wasn't a 'Nederland'.

Neder = nether or low / below - hence the Low Countries. The Netherlands seem to be quite a good comparison to the Bangkok and central plains area of Thailand. My guess is that the Dutch have their share of world class experts in the field of water management and protection. The other trait of the Dutch, many people would say, is that they can be rather egotistical and sometimes lack compassion. Since those traits are similar to the traits of many Thais especially in positions of perceived importance, there may be a clash of like traits that do not suit a harmonious atmosphere in collaboration. :-)

[SICHONSTEVE]

The Netherlands also offered to sign an MOU with Thailand to expand relations from academic cooperation to possible joint investments. The premier initially accepted the offer but wanted to study the details further, he said.

Anond noted that things had to be done carefully as water management involved not only physical aspects but also bio-systems and social aspects.

"I believe water management isn't just bringing water engineers to talk but should consider the social conditions in Thailand, which has its specifics. Hence even the best social expert from the Netherlands may not understand [things here]," he said.

Let's see if I can understand what was said in plain English.

The Dutch: We'll give you help but we want trade benefits in return.

Yingluck: What's my share of the kickback?

The Dutch: Your bribe? Where's ours? We can get some of our unemployed engineers to work here, if you pay them.

Thai side: Get stuffed.

"The Netherlands also offered to sign an MOU with Thailand to expand relations from aca?demic cooperation to possible joint investments. The premier initially accepted the offer but wanted to study the details fur?ther, he said".

This cannot be right as it kicks Thaksin into touch in what is an easy money making opportunity for him!!!!! Just who do these Dutch think they are???:jap:. The cheek of it - claiming that they want to assist in the flood problems when all they want to do is steal Thaksin's corruption money!!!.

[spidermike007]

There must be some water experts here but it is doubtful they are the most expert in the world in that particular field. However they will be sure to have 'local knowledge' which would be necessary and useful to interlace with any solution. it is doubtful that any Thai can set aside his ego to work alongside the, (to their mind), inferior foreigner and actually give any value to the knowledge the more savvy foreigner might be willing to share. Xenophobia in this country holds it back dramatically. Unfortunately Thais do not appreciate how scant their real understanding and knowledge is in so many areas. (How can they understand properly until they experience and learn deeply rather than just learn and copy solutions without sufficient deep and real understanding of the underlying principles). Unfortunately Thais, on the whole, learn rather shallowly and since this is all they experience, cannot begin to understand the whole picture. Hence the whole way business and the country is run is rather immature, concentrating more on personal gain (financial and egocentric) rather than benefit to the whole.

Any water management plan has to be comprehensive and must of course consider all aspects including the effect on local bio-systems and the full ramifications of any solution. Social implications might include the effect on local farmers or communities which might lose a water supply or get in the way of the proposed route of some new watercourse. Obviously any plan has to consider those issues but in any advanced society there is an understanding of the greater good and it is certain any competent expert will be well aware of most of those issues and if not local would be open to learn the intricacies of the problems here in order to integrate them with the solution..

Will anything concrete be done about this problem? Thailand should expect a thorough and competent examination of the issues and a well thought out effective solution dealing with the expected worst case scenario together with a solid disaster plan should the actual worst case exceed the expected. I don't think the mentality of the people in power will provide that. It involves planning and a long term view - neither of which seem to be particular strong points of the average Thai psyche - come to that even the above average have difficulty. Worse than that would be using the flooding as a mask or excuse for usurping the national funds by kickbacks from the contracts that will inevitably be borne of the solutions that will be picked on the basis of graft rather than effectiveness.

The Dutch obviously want to get in to get the contracts before other countries but will it be the best solution for the country or the solution that provides the most kickbacks that become adopted?

I feel so sad for Thailand struggling with out of control corruption everywhere and scant effort to even bring it under control let alone reduce it. So sad.

Your point is well taken. Thailand needs to get serious about fighting corruption, or it's glory days are behind it. Most other countries in the region are making a serious effort to fight corruption (good examples being the chinese developer who was sentenced to death last week) with real anti corruption committees in Malaysia arresting officials weekly, and bringing them to justice, anti-corruption activists like Anna Haraze in India, major battles against corruption in Indonesia, and other efforts being made throughout the region. Thailand is left way behind in all of this, as they do not even have an anti-corruption committee, to any real degree. The fight never started. Zero effort is being made. The Thai government has not even had the courage to admit how much of a problem all the corruption causes. So, the battle against the flooding is going to have to wait. Perhaps many, many years of this kind of tragedy, before they push aside the robber barons, and greedmeisters, who helped all this to happen.

[EvilDrSomkid]

Social conditions in Thailand ??? <deleted>! (read excuse for bribery or saving face because farang water expert knows more than thai politician)

The Dutch offer to sort out the water problems and these morons come out with this bs. Maybe the Thai government doesn't understand water management which has its specifics that play a far more significant role than "social conditions" such as a rivers and klongs having limited capacities and when these are exceeded lives are lost and industries ruined.

Spot on. After reading just the first paragraph of the article, it was clear that people here are not interested unless there are big kickbacks to be made. The Dutch are one of the least corrupt in the world, they don't know how to deal with that here.

"FY, we are Thai, we do not listen to foreigners, especially if you know what you are talking about."

Correct together with Switzerland we are on the top on non corrupt countries. But i am sure the Dutch help will also mean that Dutch companies help and that would mean income for our country.

Similar as Americans helping with oil, means work for the US too.

The social part i don't understand and i am Dutch.

Well, I grew up in Holland, speak Dutch as a native, but I can understand the "social" aspect.

Dutch people usually speak very direct, can be confrontational and do not put up with BS in a professional situation.

I know of several situations where there has been serious antagonism between Dutch and Thai workers.

I also firmly believe that IF the Thai government sincerely ask for help from the Dutch, they will help.

This service costs money, of course.

However, I am cynical in this regard. I do not think that anything meaningful will come out of this.

That is why the house we are going to build will be on 3 meters columns. Already planned that months before the floods.

[Joop50]

Already during the flooding in the south the Dutch Ambassador offered Dutch help and knowledge to the former Thai government, as specially to mister Abhisit Vejjajiva.

Never heard anything about it anymore. I really hope this time the Government is more willing to except this offer.

But the reaction of mister Anond Snidwong gives me little hope.

I like to remind some members here the Dutch also have helped the US after the terrible hurricane flood in New Orleans.

[puntmeister]

a rivers and klongs having limited capacities and when these are exceeded lives are lost and industries ruined.

"no, Tirak, you don't understand. This is Thailand. It is different here. Not same same falang land".

[puntmeister]

I already see ministers from France and Belgium visiting Holland and tell us how to handle coffee shops (this is where you buy soft drugs in Holland which is legal)

Do you think we - The Dutch - would follow up their recommendation(s)?

We will listen to them, look at their proposal, put in in a drawer and lock it - thank you very much for you opinion!

Same in Thailand, same as anywhere else in the world, don't tell us what to do, we know better.....

Cloggie

Not very analagous. The French and Belgians give 'recommendations' as to how deal with coffee shops, not as a means of improving health or safety in the Netherlands, but because they want to stop the flow of drugs into France and Belgium.

More analagous is the 'aid' the US gives to Colombia to stamp out cocaine production.

[puntmeister]

There must be some water experts here but it is doubtful they are the most expert in the world in that particular field. However they will be sure to have 'local knowledge' which would be necessary and useful to interlace with any solution. it is doubtful that any Thai can set aside his ego to work alongside the, (to their mind), inferior foreigner and actually give any value to the knowledge the more savvy foreigner might be willing to share. Xenophobia in this country holds it back dramatically. Unfortunately Thais do not appreciate how scant their real understanding and knowledge is in so many areas. (How can they understand properly until they experience and learn deeply rather than just learn and copy solutions without sufficient deep and real understanding of the underlying principles). Unfortunately Thais, on the whole, learn rather shallowly and since this is all they experience, cannot begin to understand the whole picture. Hence the whole way business and the country is run is rather immature, concentrating more on personal gain (financial and egocentric) rather than benefit to the whole.

Any water management plan has to be comprehensive and must of course consider all aspects including the effect on local bio-systems and the full ramifications of any solution. Social implications might include the effect on local farmers or communities which might lose a water supply or get in the way of the proposed route of some new watercourse. Obviously any plan has to consider those issues but in any advanced society there is an understanding of the greater good and it is certain any competent expert will be well aware of most of those issues and if not local would be open to learn the intricacies of the problems here in order to integrate them with the solution..

Will anything concrete be done about this problem? Thailand should expect a thorough and competent examination of the issues and a well thought out effective solution dealing with the expected worst case scenario together with a solid disaster plan should the actual worst case exceed the expected. I don't think the mentality of the people in power will provide that. It involves planning and a long term view - neither of which seem to be particular strong points of the average Thai psyche - come to that even the above average have difficulty. Worse than that would be using the flooding as a mask or excuse for usurping the national funds by kickbacks from the contracts that will inevitably be borne of the solutions that will be picked on the basis of graft rather than effectiveness.

The Dutch obviously want to get in to get the contracts before other countries but will it be the best solution for the country or the solution that provides the most kickbacks that become adopted?

I feel so sad for Thailand struggling with out of control corruption everywhere and scant effort to even bring it under control let alone reduce it. So sad.

Your point is well taken. Thailand needs to get serious about fighting corruption, or it's glory days are behind it. Most other countries in the region are making a serious effort to fight corruption (good examples being the chinese developer who was sentenced to death last week) with real anti corruption committees in Malaysia arresting officials weekly, and bringing them to justice, anti-corruption activists like Anna Haraze in India, major battles against corruption in Indonesia, and other efforts being made throughout the region. Thailand is left way behind in all of this, as they do not even have an anti-corruption committee, to any real degree. The fight never started. Zero effort is being made. The Thai government has not even had the courage to admit how much of a problem all the corruption causes. So, the battle against the flooding is going to have to wait. Perhaps many, many years of this kind of tragedy, before they push aside the robber barons, and greedmeisters, who helped all this to happen.

Seemingly off topic, corruption is a central element to the challenge ahead.

In that light, I offer a past conversation I once had with a Russian (back in my more naive days). Russia, of course, also suffers from intense corruption. Key to the 'success' of corruption in any country is for the police force itself to be corrupt - indeed, the Russian police force is fiercely corrupt. The conversation:

Me: "Why don't they just fire all the police, and start over?"

Russian: "And hire who in their place? All Russians are corrupt."

[JoeLeTaxi]

We are living along the river. We get flooded year after year.

There is no time for much talking. If the waters remain high, we are in for a new drama next year.

The yearly use of sandbags as an anti-flooding policy in the north and in central Thailand; and the permanent disposal of garbage into the river, have been silting the waterways, next to the natural silt run-off from the north.

If rivers cannot run deep, they run wide.

The First Aid is to dredge the clogged rivers and canals. Get dredging companies, make contracts and start immediately. Next year could be worse.

All other plans will come too late.

[wxyz]

"Anond noted that things had to be done carefully as water management involved not only physical aspects but also bio-systems and social aspects."

meaning POLITICAL aspects

they need a seawall dyke and a lot of pumps

Edited November 15, 2011 by wxyz

[happysanook]

I already see ministers from France and Belgium visiting Holland and tell us how to handle coffee shops (this is where you buy soft drugs in Holland which is legal)

Do you think we - The Dutch - would follow up their recommendation(s)?

We will listen to them, look at their proposal, put in in a drawer and lock it - thank you very much for you opinion!

Same in Thailand, same as anywhere else in the world, don't tell us what to do, we know better.....

Cloggie

no doubt you were stoned when you wrote this. comparing catastrophic floods where hundreds of thousands were uprooted, billions lost and still more damage to be done to how to run a coffee shop.

[lungpeter]

Social conditions in Thailand ??? <deleted>! (read excuse for bribery or saving face because farang water expert knows more than thai politician)

The Dutch offer to sort out the water problems and these morons come out with this bs. Maybe the Thai government doesn't understand water management which has its specifics that play a far more significant role than "social conditions" such as a rivers and klongs having limited capacities and when these are exceeded lives are lost and industries ruined.

Spot on. After reading just the first paragraph of the article, it was clear that people here are not interested unless there are big kickbacks to be made. The Dutch are one of the least corrupt in the world, they don't know how to deal with that here.

"FY, we are Thai, we do not listen to foreigners, especially if you know what you are talking about."

Correct together with Switzerland we are on the top on non corrupt countries. But i am sure the Dutch help will also mean that Dutch companies help and that would mean income for our country.

Similar as Americans helping with oil, means work for the US too.

The social part i don't understand and i am Dutch.

for me it sounds like the Dutch walking on egg shells.there must be someone who knows thainess.

[swerver]

Social conditions in Thailand ??? <deleted>! (read excuse for bribery or saving face because farang water expert knows more than thai politician)

The Dutch offer to sort out the water problems and these morons come out with this bs. Maybe the Thai government doesn't understand water management which has its specifics that play a far more significant role than "social conditions" such as a rivers and klongs having limited capacities and when these are exceeded lives are lost and industries ruined.

Both sides are being greedy here. You think the Dutch are are being altruistic in shoving that MOU in from the Thais at this time and positioning themselves for contracts and other special privileges? And of course the Thai government wants bribes for doing for Thailand what they're already paid to do. Sick all the way around.

Why a MOU???

Knowing the Thais since the fifteen hundreds the Dutch have been taken a few times by the Thais. It all can be found when studying Thai History, not Thai History written by Thais because that is Thai slanted. For a starter, Homan van der Heide left his experience with the top Thais regarding water control / management in a book called King of the Waters. Not easy to find in Thailand, quicker to get somebody bring it from Singapore.

The Thais in this present situation like to be supplied with all the information compiled by the Dutch Hydraulic Engineers regarding the water management. (flooding). Then when the Thais have all the documentation, they will not even say Thank You and are on their way shopping for the biggest kickback(s), the contract price is not the first on their list. Greed, graft, kickbacks is the order of the Thai day. Of course they are not the Lone Ranger in this; the world is starting to get drowned in it.

The Dutch (talking from own international experience) do not mind doing the legwork but in return for the legwork they also like to get the contract to do the work. Get the idea? The Germans, English, French, and even the Chinese are all standing and waiting on the sideline. Remember the Dutch have hundreds of years experience in water management plus they have all the necessary equipment on hand to do the job. One of the many reasons Dubai had the Dutch do all that offshore development. Also remember the Dutch build an OUTER DIKE around their country after the North Sea went over the top of, what is now the INNER DIKE with the loss of one thousand seven hundred lives in addition to all the cattle.

]Based on personal experience, I do not understand why the Dutch are bothering with this Thai flooding problem. It is not of recent, it has been around for more than a century while all the Thais do is heehaw around when the flood forces them out off their whatever they live in. LOL in LOS

Edited November 15, 2011 by metisdead
Font reset, use default forum font when posting.

[ETatBKK]

can take advise from water management from Holland, disaster relief management from Japan . . . then process and do it in Thai way !

meaning . . .

[whiteelephant]

Bangkokpost comment

watermanagement "IF IT AINT DUTCH IT AINT MUCH"

lets do a survey.......

how many non speaking thaivisa members do have a clue about the word NEDER(land)

The point is this.....we Dutch don't brag......we make an assessment and get it with it TO FINISH.

action speak louder then words.

Did People Who Read theses post, that the Dutch have the best knowledge of water management, the country is as flat as a pancke and Schipool Airport is 18 meters below sea level.

Check for yourselfs next time you enter Holland.

Does Thai knowing were the name 'Nederland' comes from? Without the knowledge of watermanagement there wasn't a 'Nederland'.

Neder = nether or low / below - hence the Low Countries. The Netherlands seem to be quite a good comparison to the Bangkok and central plains area of Thailand. My guess is that the Dutch have their share of world class experts in the field of water management and protection. The other trait of the Dutch, many people would say, is that they can be rather egotistical and sometimes lack compassion. Since those traits are similar to the traits of many Thais especially in positions of perceived importance, there may be a clash of like traits that do not suit a harmonious atmosphere in collaboration. :-)

[atyclb]

There must be some water experts here but it is doubtful they are the most expert in the world in that particular field. However they will be sure to have 'local knowledge' which would be necessary and useful to interlace with any solution. it is doubtful that any Thai can set aside his ego to work alongside the, (to their mind), inferior foreigner and actually give any value to the knowledge the more savvy foreigner might be willing to share. Xenophobia in this country holds it back dramatically. Unfortunately Thais do not appreciate how scant their real understanding and knowledge is in so many areas. (How can they understand properly until they experience and learn deeply rather than just learn and copy solutions without sufficient deep and real understanding of the underlying principles). Unfortunately Thais, on the whole, learn rather shallowly and since this is all they experience, cannot begin to understand the whole picture. Hence the whole way business and the country is run is rather immature, concentrating more on personal gain (financial and egocentric) rather than benefit to the whole.

Any water management plan has to be comprehensive and must of course consider all aspects including the effect on local bio-systems and the full ramifications of any solution. Social implications might include the effect on local farmers or communities which might lose a water supply or get in the way of the proposed route of some new watercourse. Obviously any plan has to consider those issues but in any advanced society there is an understanding of the greater good and it is certain any competent expert will be well aware of most of those issues and if not local would be open to learn the intricacies of the problems here in order to integrate them with the solution..

Will anything concrete be done about this problem? Thailand should expect a thorough and competent examination of the issues and a well thought out effective solution dealing with the expected worst case scenario together with a solid disaster plan should the actual worst case exceed the expected. I don't think the mentality of the people in power will provide that. It involves planning and a long term view - neither of which seem to be particular strong points of the average Thai psyche - come to that even the above average have difficulty. Worse than that would be using the flooding as a mask or excuse for usurping the national funds by kickbacks from the contracts that will inevitably be borne of the solutions that will be picked on the basis of graft rather than effectiveness.

The Dutch obviously want to get in to get the contracts before other countries but will it be the best solution for the country or the solution that provides the most kickbacks that become adopted?

I feel so sad for Thailand struggling with out of control corruption everywhere and scant effort to even bring it under control let alone reduce it. So sad.

Your point is well taken. Thailand needs to get serious about fighting corruption, or it's glory days are behind it. Most other countries in the region are making a serious effort to fight corruption (good examples being the chinese developer who was sentenced to death last week) with real anti corruption committees in Malaysia arresting officials weekly, and bringing them to justice, anti-corruption activists like Anna Haraze in India, major battles against corruption in Indonesia, and other efforts being made throughout the region. Thailand is left way behind in all of this, as they do not even have an anti-corruption committee, to any real degree. The fight never started. Zero effort is being made. The Thai government has not even had the courage to admit how much of a problem all the corruption causes. So, the battle against the flooding is going to have to wait. Perhaps many, many years of this kind of tragedy, before they push aside the robber barons, and greedmeisters, who helped all this to happen.

It would not be right to damage Thai culture/ Thai-ness / National Heritage by fighting/eliminating corruption.