Setback For East Bangkok: Flood

[webfact]

Setback for east Bangkok

The Nation

New deluge as floodhit residents of Pathum Thani district damage sandbag barrier before talks with BMA Wider opening of canal sluice gate following demand by angry victims expected to inundate more areas in city

Eastern Bangkok, where flood waters had just started to recede, may face another bout of high flooding after a dispute over the barrier along the lower Khlong Hok Wa caused partial damage to the sandbag embankment while protests led to the opening of the Khlong Phraya Suren sluice gate to a metre wide yesterday.

Fed up with the polluted flood water in their area, about 200 residents from Tambon Lad Sawai of Pathum Thani's Lam Luk Ka district yesterday tore up a 50metrewide section of the sandbag barrier along the lower Khlong Hok Wa. They also demanded that the Khlong Phraya Suren sluice gate, at the time open 20cm wide, be opened by one metre. The residents also sought more monetary compensation, clarity in water management and urged that the whole floodwall be turned into a weir instead.

BMA Drainage Office director Sanya Chinimit joined negotiations in the afternoon and initially agreed to open the sluice gate a metre wide.

The negotiations between the BMA and two groups of affected residents later led to an agreement to discuss the opening of the sluice gate again tomorrow, besides also discussing more flood aid.

Yesterday's developments sent flood water towards Wongsakorn Market and Sai Mai Hospital in Bangkok's Sai Mai district and caused the water level in the Sai Mai area, which was about 20cm deep, to rise by 40-50cm. Downstream Sai Mai residents panicked and moved their belongings to higher ground.

The flood water will also pour into Khlong Sam Wa, Bangchan, Ramkhamhaeng, RamIndra, Bang Kapi before flowing into the Saen Saeb Canal.

Disaster expert Dr Arnon Sanidwong na Ayudhaya said the Bangchan Industrial Estate would be affected by the onemetrewide opening of the Khlong Phraya Suren sluice gate, and that Min Buri's Suan Siam area, Bang Kapi and Wang Thong Lang would face more flooding.

Environment consultants Team Group issued a warning calling on residents in the following areas and districts to move up their belongings: Or Ngern, Khu Bon, Khan Na Yao Bangchan, Khlong Sam Wa, Min Buri - especially those living in lowlying areas and near waterways - and those living near Phraya Suren Canal.

Meanwhile, BMA Governor MR Sukhumbhand Paribatra said that he had heard about Lam Luk Ka residents destroying the sandbag embankment at the lower Khlong Hok Wa and would wait for the BMA Sewage Office to assess the impact. He said he had contacted national Flood Relief Operations Centre (FROC) directorgeneral Pracha Promnok to find solutions. Pracha promised to send police and soldiers to negotiate with the residents. The governor expressed concern that the demolition of floodwalls by the residents could lead to copycat behaviour, hence the BMA would keep an eye on it. He said a solution to the conflict lay in rational discussions, hence all sides must talk. He said Phaholyothin and Vibhavadi roads would be on close watch.

Meanwhile, negotiations between FROC spokesman Pol General Pongsapat Pongcharoen and residents upstream over the "big bag" embankment on Phaholyothin Road resulted in the authority opening some parts of the embankment in the form of a weir.

Pongsapat yesterday met 200 protesters from Sai Mai district and Tambon Khukhot, who had since Wednesday torn up small sandbags on top of the "bigbag" embankment and threatened to tear up the giant sandbags.

Later, Bangkok Metropolitan Administration (BMA) deputy clerk Somphop Rangabthuk said the negotiations led to an agreement that other than removal of the fourmetrewide top section of the sandbags, two more fivemetrewide sections of the top of the "big bag" floodwall would be opened in the form of a weir. The BMA would monitor the flood situation on Phaholyothin Road, Bang Khen and Khlong Bang Sue, he said. The water level inside and outside the barrier varied by 30cm.

Sukhumbhand commented to FM 102.75MHz that the partial opening of the "bigbag" barrier would not affect Bangkok as only the top sandbags were removed. Sukhumbhand said the Lat Phrao intersection, Phaholyothin and Ratchadaphisek had seen a drop in the flood level, while several spots on Thon Buri's Rama II Road had started to dry, but Kanchanapisek Road remained critical. He said he was still focused on ending the flood in Bangkok as a New Year gift for Bangkokians and he was confident of achieving that provided there were no more runoffs.

The permanent secretary for Defence, General Sathien Permthongin, commented that the flood waters had receded and FROC was working hard to assist problematic areas. He urged all parties involved in the conflict over the "bigbag" embankments to meet each other half way. Visiting the medical team in front of Wat Dusitaram on the Thon Buri side and handing out relief bags to floodaffected people yesterday, Sathien said that the prime minister had already appointed a sevenmember committee for postflood rehabilitation. He said the Defence Ministry would keep the tools ready and the Army Engineer Department would be mainly in charge of repairing roads and water sources. The Armed Forces were inspecting vehicles and tools used in assisting flood victims, to see what sort of budget they will need from the government to repair and maintain them. Urging people in the "bigbag" barrier conflict to compromise, he said everyone must sympathise with one another as they were all affected and were all Thais.

-- The Nation 2011-11-18

[trompelemonde]

I had sympathy for people above the barrier in Pathum Thani before this, but not now.

The area below that sluice gate has been badly flooded prior to this incident. This is heaping misery upon misery.

[h90]

4050 cm that is a lot, I would also panic....

[metisdead]

4050 cm that is a lot, I would also panic....

I have corrected the mistake, I think it should have read "40-50 cm".

[lovetotravel]

Amazing the government can't even safeguard things like this. Unreal.

[gregb]

Amazing the government can't even safeguard things like this. Unreal.

They can safeguard it. They don't want to. It would simply require them announcing they will give proper compensation to those they have injured by their decision to erect the BBB. At the top end they need to pay out something on the order of 200k baht or more. The problem comes from the government not willing to accept responsibility for their actions, and the residents are tired of abuse. Compensate them, and they'll stop rebelling. Continue to oppress them, and you can expect this to continue.

It is not unlike any rebellion actually. Those oppressed and abused eventually get mad. Injustice is the root of this problem, and the government just doesn't give a rats ass about that.

[edgarfriendly]

he said everyone must sympathise with one another as they were all affected and were all Thai.

Phew!!

And there i was thinking that there were a multitude of nationalities affected by this....

Silly Me!!

Obviously the rest us are still irrelevant unless we're ploughing our resources into this pyramid scheme and keeping our 'ignorant - loo mak' mouths shut.

Don't want all the affected Thais to start thinking analytically eh!!

No one deserves the ill treatment the thais dump on the rest of their society every day!!

Burmese - Slave workers

Phillipinos - Slave maids

Cambodians - Slave workers

Laoitians - Slave workers

Malaysians - Evil, think too much, loo mak, dam dam, mai choep, oho, etc.

And THAT'S Just Their Neighbours!!! (who REALLY keep this place running)

And now they're offering their airports to US military interests!!

Reapin' what ur sowin!!! GET SOME!!!

:jap:

Edited November 18, 2011 by edgarfriendly

[jimbeam1]

If the photo in the op is in Pathum-Thani and it was taken yesterday. Surely you must sympathies with them. They have suffered enough. We live in Prawet district and are still dry. If getting our share of the water would help, I think we should get it.

jb1

[IsaanUSA]

So whatever group protests the loudest, they will get their area cleared faster? Is that what I've been noticing in the news over the past few weeks?

[robblok]

If the photo in the op is in Pathum-Thani and it was taken yesterday. Surely you must sympathies with them. They have suffered enough. We live in Prawet district and are still dry. If getting our share of the water would help, I think we should get it.

jb1

They are indeed letting people suffer longer to safe others. I understand the sense of it, but they should really be compensated fairly for doing this.

If it was clear they would receive good compensation im sure many of these protests would not be there. But the government does not communicate and give clear information.

[Netfan]

If the photo in the op is in Pathum-Thani and it was taken yesterday. Surely you must sympathies with them. They have suffered enough. We live in Prawet district and are still dry. If getting our share of the water would help, I think we should get it.

jb1

Let Prawet remain dry and undamged. What good is going to come of innundating another neighborhood? Then the people of Prawet will start protesting and the water will be released into On Nut. And so on. The situation in Pathum Thani is not good and obviously the people are suffering. But do not sacrifice more neighborhoods, causing more destruction and monetary loss - this is turning into mob rule, and that is never good.

[MaxYakov]

TVF Link Posted on the 'Daily Flood Locations Nov 18th & 19th' thread regarding Dr. Seree's presentation on the 17 Nov 2011 (last night) Thai PBS English-language segment of 'Thailand's Worst Flood' which covered the three Big Bag Barrier Breaches (B-cubed).

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

The couple of prominent Thai scientist guys regularly interviewed on TV have repeatedly said that tearing down the flood barriers won't do much to relieve the currently flooded areas...but would markedly expand the flooding to areas that currently are dry...

I'm not a scientist nor a flood expert. But if that advice is correct, what's the point of expanding the misery to others needlessly.

[gregb]

The couple of prominent Thai scientist guys regularly interviewed on TV have repeatedly said that tearing down the flood barriers won't do much to relieve the currently flooded areas...but would markedly expand the flooding to areas that currently are dry...

I'm not a scientist nor a flood expert. But if that advice is correct, what's the point of expanding the misery to others needlessly.

Comes down to the definition of "much". Half the water depth for half the time is a whole bunch to someone whose house in under 1+ meters of water and has been for a month. But to somebody high and dry in Bangkok, he'd still be flooded, so why make me suffer too? Mostly because the pundits bandying about the word "much" are not the ones flooded. There are many ways to define much, and watching water levels rise by 20+ cm inside the BBB when even a small portion is knocked down should tell you that "not much" is a huge amount to those currently being abused. If it doesn't drop by 20 cm on the outside of the barrier, that should tell you how much water is still sitting out there waiting to get through, and how much misery you are subjecting these people to.

That isn't to say there isn't some validity to what the "experts" are saying. The aggregate misery would be certainly be increased by knocking down the barrier. The only rational solution is to leave the barrier but compensate the people who are behind it. Unfortunately, the government is refusing to accept any responsibility for their actions. In the end analysis that is the crux of the problem. If you aren't willing to compensate people behind the barrier, expect them to continue to try and destroy it.

[gregb]

If the photo in the op is in Pathum-Thani and it was taken yesterday. Surely you must sympathies with them. They have suffered enough. We live in Prawet district and are still dry. If getting our share of the water would help, I think we should get it.

jb1

Let Prawet remain dry and undamged. What good is going to come of innundating another neighborhood? Then the people of Prawet will start protesting and the water will be released into On Nut. And so on. The situation in Pathum Thani is not good and obviously the people are suffering. But do not sacrifice more neighborhoods, causing more destruction and monetary loss - this is turning into mob rule, and that is never good.

Right. Just agree to give them adequate compensation for the sacrifice. If you stop abusing them, they will stop trying to break the barriers.

[robblok]

The couple of prominent Thai scientist guys regularly interviewed on TV have repeatedly said that tearing down the flood barriers won't do much to relieve the currently flooded areas...but would markedly expand the flooding to areas that currently are dry...

I'm not a scientist nor a flood expert. But if that advice is correct, what's the point of expanding the misery to others needlessly.

I can tell you only 30cm difference in water level can make a big difference. Seen it here when it was at its full hight life was hard but 30cm lower and life went on. So yes they would be helped by breaking down the barrier.

Its not logical to do, its more logical to give them fair compensation so they will hold on. So they know their extended suffering is rewarded. Else why suffer for nothing if you can make it better by breaking down dams.

The greater good should come from two sides. That huge loss everyone is talking about when it floods more for a fraction of that you could compensate the people suffering.

[sparebox2]

As long as my Sukhunvit condo is not flooded, I don't care if they open up the BBB or not.

[elcent]

Khlong Hok Wa barrier violence today

6 injured, explosives were used

[BusyBee123]

I had sympathy for people above the barrier in Pathum Thani before this, but not now.

The area below that sluice gate has been badly flooded prior to this incident. This is heaping misery upon misery.

Well rest assured the people of Patum Thani wont miss your fickle sympathy. My pregnant girlfriend has been stuck for 4 weeks on khlong 2 pathum thani surrounded by leach infested stinking water, granted aid parcels(which were little more than noodles and sanitary pads) were delivered after 12 days by boat but no water, just the nutrition a pregnant girl needs. People in bangkok can offer shallow sympathy whilst keeping their feet dry but action not sympathy is what was always needed, The residents of Pathum Thani have waited long enough so good for them they are taking action to get their lives back. If that means another area gets some flooding for a few 'days' then so be it it's hardly the same situation they have been through.

[Netfan]

If the photo in the op is in Pathum-Thani and it was taken yesterday. Surely you must sympathies with them. They have suffered enough. We live in Prawet district and are still dry. If getting our share of the water would help, I think we should get it.

jb1

Let Prawet remain dry and undamged. What good is going to come of innundating another neighborhood? Then the people of Prawet will start protesting and the water will be released into On Nut. And so on. The situation in Pathum Thani is not good and obviously the people are suffering. But do not sacrifice more neighborhoods, causing more destruction and monetary loss - this is turning into mob rule, and that is never good.

Right. Just agree to give them adequate compensation for the sacrifice. If you stop abusing them, they will stop trying to break the barriers.

Agree 100%.

[jimbeam1]

If the photo in the op is in Pathum-Thani and it was taken yesterday. Surely you must sympathies with them. They have suffered enough. We live in Prawet district and are still dry. If getting our share of the water would help, I think we should get it.

jb1

Let Prawet remain dry and undamged. What good is going to come of innundating another neighborhood? Then the people of Prawet will start protesting and the water will be released into On Nut. And so on. The situation in Pathum Thani is not good and obviously the people are suffering. But do not sacrifice more neighborhoods, causing more destruction and monetary loss - this is turning into mob rule, and that is never good.

Yes also a problem shared is a problem halved. In the o/p photo the water is up to their wastes?

jb1

Edited November 18, 2011 by jimbeam1

[trompelemonde]

I had sympathy for people above the barrier in Pathum Thani before this, but not now.

The area below that sluice gate has been badly flooded prior to this incident. This is heaping misery upon misery.

Well rest assured the people of Patum Thani wont miss your fickle sympathy. My pregnant girlfriend has been stuck for 4 weeks on khlong 2 pathum thani surrounded by leach infested stinking water, granted aid parcels(which were little more than noodles and sanitary pads) were delivered after 12 days by boat but no water, just the nutrition a pregnant girl needs. People in bangkok can offer shallow sympathy whilst keeping their feet dry but action not sympathy is what was always needed, The residents of Pathum Thani have waited long enough so good for them they are taking action to get their lives back. If that means another area gets some flooding for a few 'days' then so be it it's hardly the same situation they have been through.

As stated the areas 'downstream' are already flooded.

First of all the good folk of Pathum Thani were kind enough to break down the Sam Wa sluice gate and flood Minburi, Nong Jok etc because they were 'dry' (they were flooded badly already in some districts), the reasons given were that we should 'share the pain'. Well we have been 'sharing the pain', sure not as bad as Pathum Thani but bad enough. Now please tell me what's the excuse for more flooding??

I am sorry for your gf (though you may disagree) - I am victim of flooding as well. My first post was written in anger and frustration that a bad situation has now become worse.

[Farang0tang]

Easily solved.

PTP should agree any compensation demand by those affected.

Once everything is back on track, and the floods are gone - PTP can simply not make the payouts.

Such a successful strategy for them.

Edited November 18, 2011 by Farang0tang

[robblok]

Easily solved.

PTP should agree any compensation demand by those affected.

Once everything is back on track, and the floods are gone - PTP can simply not make the payouts.

Such a successful strategy for them.

They used it in the election and everyone fell for it. so it might work. On the bright side it might do damage to their credibility.

[ragandboneman]

As long as my Sukhunvit condo is not flooded, I don't care if they open up the BBB or not.

Such a humanitarian soul ???

[DeepInTheForest]

As long as my Sukhunvit condo is not flooded, I don't care if they open up the BBB or not.

Such a humanitarian soul ???

There is the crux of our dilemma, in two succinct comments. They are almost koan-like in their simplicity.

Some posters have previously said, 'So, the district that protests gets what it wants?'

Consider: There are learned scholars (e.g., Henri Lefebvre) who say that all urban space is socially constructed and is the product of contention. A lot of arguing and squabbling that never seems to cease. In Lefebvre's view, this dynamic is a good thing and we may as well celebrate it-- it accounts for the dynamism, health, and adaptability of the urban system.

This is not to discount the importance of teamwork or to downplay the suffering of citizens. We should not expect things to be always smooth, or to expect people to agree on a common course of action, in difficult situations.

It may be that a certain degree of pushback and jostling against the dominant power may be necessary for the longer health of things. Local people seem to grasp this intuitively, and know how to go about it, perhaps better than those of us who view things from a certain remove, even though physically we are up to our knees in water.

Edited November 18, 2011 by DeepInTheForest

[merlen10002]

As long as my Sukhunvit condo is not flooded, I don't care if they open up the BBB or not.

Great attitude,, stuff everyone if I am OK,,,, well stuff you and up yours to.

[DocN]

As long as my Sukhunvit condo is not flooded, I don't care if they open up the BBB or not.

No,no...you got it wrong! "Asylum" is not the same as "condo"!

[rubl]

As long as my Sukhunvit condo is not flooded, I don't care if they open up the BBB or not.

No,no...you got it wrong! "Asylum" is not the same as "condo"!

+1

BTW I'm not convinced this troll actually lives or has a condo along Sukhumvit (or even Sukhunvit)

[robblok]

As long as my Sukhunvit condo is not flooded, I don't care if they open up the BBB or not.

No,no...you got it wrong! "Asylum" is not the same as "condo"!

+1

BTW I'm not convinced this troll actually lives or has a condo along Sukhumvit (or even Sukhunvit)

His post constantly contradict himself so i take no notice of him anymore. He says things to stir up trouble.

Im guilty of that at times too.. or at least putting my opinion down a bit more strong then i really mean it. But i think many do that.

Here things are slowly drying up wish those people on the wrong side of the BBB had that luxury. In a week or 2 we could even walk on the road again. House dry, part of the garden dry. Improvement. Once you see that you calm down, but if you dont see improvement and you know the cause of it i can understand them being pretty pissed off.