I Think I May Have Encountered A High Tech Criminal

[Jingthing]

Something weird happened tonight when I was making a purchase at a retail technology store at Tukcom Mall tonight.

It didn't occur to me what it might be until I got home.

I was in the middle of making a purchase with cash when a man approached me, very friendly and talkative and started blabbing about odd stuff such as the details of taking a television purchase to the airport to ship out of Thailand. Then we naturally got talking about what country he is from, what country I am from. The whole time my wallet was open and he was very interested in my wallet (I was in the process of paying and waiting for change during this time). He had some story about being from Dubai so naturally I asked him why buy a tv in Thailand for Dubai and he said no it is going to India, etc, etc. THREE times during the talk he moved his hand quickly towards my wallet, blabbering about stamps or something like that. Of course I pulled the wallet away, but I didn't really believe he was going to grab my wallet in the middle of store, but why was he going for my wallet. Eventually, he said something about wanting the King's image on stamps (why would I have that in my wallet) and I being Mr. Friendly suggested the post office. Anyway, yes I was caught off guard, but now I think he had something in his hand and was trying to swipe my card data in my wallet with a device?

Sound about right or am I paranoid?

In any case, just a heads up. if this was a scam, be on guard for similar.

Edited November 20, 2011 by sbk
race irrelevant

[phaethon]

I had a couple of credit cards arrive recently with a little 'wireless' logo in the corner and the words "Pay Pass". <deleted>?

A little Googling and I discovered it's a quick-pay method for small amounts: no signature, no PIN, no CVV required.

I didn't request this 'feature and didn't like the idea, so these cards have been relegated to backup/online use and I keep them in my room unless I'm travelling when I made a little wallet for them out of a small CC-sized zip-lock holder (B2S) wrapped in tin foil and covered with duct tape.

I don't think the Pay-Pass system has reached Thailand yet, and I'm being overly paranoid expecting the local crooks to be that far ahead of the game, but I am ready for when they do catch up.

(Just checked: Visa = Pay Wave, MasterCard = Pay Pass)

Edited November 19, 2011 by phaethon

[Jingthing]

He made me for an American and I innocently confirmed that and that made him more interested. (In my wallet.)

Edited November 19, 2011 by Jingthing

[saintofsilence]

I don't think you are being paranoid but you can't do much other than cancel your cards.

But I don't think they would do it inside a shop like Tukom because of being recognized in security cameras .

[Jingthing]

Another creepy thing. When he went for my wallet and I moved it away, he said don't worry. Never a good sign when strangers say don't worry.

Of course, I hadn't developed this scanning theory until I got home. At the time I was just confused, why is this decently dressed stranger going for my wallet in an environment that I couldn't believe he would actually just steal it.

Edited November 19, 2011 by Jingthing

[janverbeem]

I had a couple of credit cards arrive recently with a little 'wireless' logo in the corner and the words "Pay Pass". <deleted>?

A little Googling and I discovered it's a quick-pay method for small amounts: no signature, no PIN, no CVV required.

I didn't request this 'feature and didn't like the idea, so these cards have been relegated to backup/online use and I keep them in my room unless I'm travelling when I made a little wallet for them out of a small CC-sized zip-lock holder (B2S) wrapped in tin foil and covered with duct tape.

I don't think the Pay-Pass system has reached Thailand yet, and I'm being overly paranoid expecting the local crooks to be that far ahead of the game, but I am ready for when they do catch up.

(Just checked: Visa = Pay Wave, MasterCard = Pay Pass)

i think i see that pay wave sign at the foodland check outs,maybe somone can confirm.

[poanoi]

Reminds me when i went to Vientiane on a visa run, a moroccan man went with me to the consulate and he just couldn't keep his hands off me over half an hour, i was massively uncomfortable.

But as far as i can tell i lost nothing from the encounter

[qualtrough]

I can't say what the wallet deal was about, but the TVs to India is real phenomena. Flew to Calcutta a few months back and almost every passenger had a cart with one or more big screen TVs.

[JimmyTheMook]

Prolly reaching in for that XXL condom you keep stashed in there.

[Ijustwannateach]

I'm always amazed when dodgy criminal types assume that I should trust them in any way when we haven't met and when they are behaving completely out of character for a normal person in the situation. I'm also pretty blunt. I think in this case I wouldn't have started the conversation, but if it had continued in the manner related above I would have pretty quickly shifted to, 'My, what a nice talk we've had. Too bad you have to be going.' Then I would have become rude....

[Jingthing]

I'm always amazed when dodgy criminal types assume that I should trust them in any way when we haven't met and when they are behaving completely out of character for a normal person in the situation. I'm also pretty blunt. I think in this case I wouldn't have started the conversation, but if it had continued in the manner related above I would have pretty quickly shifted to, 'My, what a nice talk we've had. Too bad you have to be going.' Then I would have become rude....

Next time. I agree entirely you need to awake for clues. For some reason my guard was down. Obviously, real crims are looking for that. The info about Indians and shipping tvs is now making me less suspect. Another part of it for me is that I have randomly run into some sincerely friendly Indians around town who really just wanted to have an intelligent conversation.

Edited November 19, 2011 by Jingthing

[Lodestone]

Jing, I've had to deal with a variety of similar encounters and this is how I handle them:

I was in the middle of making a purchase with cash when a man approached me, very friendly and talkative...

For me any stranger that approaches me like this is an immediate red flag.

Then we naturally got talking about what country he is from, what country I am from.

It's just one of my rules not to share personal information with strangers like this.

The whole time my wallet was open

I try never to leave my wallet out when making a purchase. And I certainly never leave it open.

He had some story...

Don't they always? I used to get the Indians on lower Sukhumvit come up to me with the "You are a VERY lucky man." line. It took no more than a simple 'fuc_k off' for them to no longer bother me.

[Note, I've apparently run into some kind of retarded limit on quoting so now switching to bold-italics]

so naturally I asked him...

I really make an effort to respond as minimally as possible without being completely rude.

THREE times during the talk he moved his hand quickly towards my wallet...

I usually try to widen my stance and spread my elbows some to try to increase my personal space. Most often I've had to do this with Arabs standing in line behind me, some of whom practically want to rub up against me.

Edited November 20, 2011 by sbk
no need to bring race into this

[Hooters]

Maybe he just wanted a friend and your wallet was distracting? from what I have read there was nothing incriminating this man apart from a wild conspiracy theory .

He probably went home and told his wife about the strange American guy who kept showing him his wallet

Edited November 19, 2011 by Hooters

[hehehoho]

I don't think you are being paranoid but you can't do much other than cancel your cards.

But I don't think they would do it inside a shop like Tukom because of being recognized in security cameras .

Security Cameras.

A friend of my bike dealer had the security in his condo disconnect the cameras and then haul his bike (100k+ thb)onto a pick up before disappearing.

They him got due to the camera from the opposite condo.

[Jingthing]

I think you may need a tin foil hat...

Meaning what? You don't think there are any people skimming cards?

http://www.orient-computer.com/pdf/SkimBlockProductCatalog2009.pdf

[ballpoint]

Maybe he was trying a bit of subliminal trickery, ala Derren Brown.

[waza]

The problem is that now they can scan the details from your cards while it in your wallet and in you pocket, as a result there is a growing business in scan proof wallets.

[Jingthing]

The problem is that now they can scan the details from your cards while it in your wallet and in you pocket, as a result there is a growing business in scan proof wallets.

Yes, that is my understanding. But I wasn't thinking about that at the time as I haven't been exposed to that issue lately.

[RCR]

It does sound like the stranger was going to either scan Jingthing's cards, or just grab the wallet and run.

There are wallets out now that supposedly offer "RFID protection". Amazon has a selection.

I have the RFID protection wallet made by GO Travel. I don't know if it is effective in shielding, but it is a beautiful black leather wallet with slots the correct size for bankcards and a banknote section that will take the largest banknotes. I got it at a travel shop at Heathrow - 20GBP. I needed a new wallet anyway, and I'm very happy with this one.

[MJo]

This is very common in baht buses in Pattaya, i'd avoid them if not carrying protective gear.

[travelmann]

Another creepy thing. When he went for my wallet and I moved it away, he said don't worry. Never a good sign when strangers say don't worry.

Of course, I hadn't developed this scanning theory until I got home. At the time I was just confused, why is this decently dressed stranger going for my wallet in an environment that I couldn't believe he would actually just steal it.

Never speak to strangers.............I dont, taught as a kid still applies today especially when they are friendly.

[bunta71]

Reminds me when i went to Vientiane on a visa run, a moroccan man went with me to the consulate and he just couldn't keep his hands off me over half an hour, i was massively uncomfortable.

But as far as i can tell i lost nothing from the encounter

Hansum man maybe?

[roamer]

I had a couple of credit cards arrive recently with a little 'wireless' logo in the corner and the words "Pay Pass". <deleted>?

A little Googling and I discovered it's a quick-pay method for small amounts: no signature, no PIN, no CVV required.

I didn't request this 'feature and didn't like the idea, so these cards have been relegated to backup/online use and I keep them in my room unless I'm travelling when I made a little wallet for them out of a small CC-sized zip-lock holder (B2S) wrapped in tin foil and covered with duct tape.

I don't think the Pay-Pass system has reached Thailand yet, and I'm being overly paranoid expecting the local crooks to be that far ahead of the game, but I am ready for when they do catch up.

(Just checked: Visa = Pay Wave, MasterCard = Pay Pass)

Cards can be scanned before they reach you.

Bear in mind that the sums that contactless payment can be used for are very low.

The encryption algorithm used on CC's for this has probably not been broken yet so even if you capture the data (easy) you can't rewrite it. Even if you could, the proximity data that is transmitted is not the same as would be required for any non-contactless payment.

The banks are paranoid about this and have every reason to be. Public perceptions of the risk are more crucial to its acceptance than the actual risk.

Every other way in which you use your credit card is far more risky. I use contactless payment with no hesitation. Were I in a restaurant that bought a card reader to my table that required a swipe of the mag stripe rather than a reading of the chip....well someone else is going to have to pay the bill or walk me to an ATM.

The upside of this is that people get to sell RFID protective wallets

Of course if you don't mind unwrapping your own foil Faraday cage you have at least saved on that.

[sbk]

Thread edited, posts deleted. This kind of thing can happen with any nationality so no need to introduce attempts at bigotry by singling out a particular nationality.

[jackdawson]

This is precisely why I speak with/to no one in Thailand unless I start the conversation.

[mahtin]

Thank you for bringing this to our attention, Jingthing.

Can't imagine why anyone derives facile amusement from a serious topic.

[simon43]

why is this decently dressed stranger going for my wallet?

Perhaps he/she/it was actually one of those aggressive ladyboy thieves, cunningly disguised as a decently-dressed stranger?

Simon

[CaptHaddock]

I try to cultivate rudeness to deal with suspicious situations like this one. Rather than try to figure out what is going on, I assume that the script he is following will not be to my advantage. So, as soon as I become suspicious, I disrupt the script and I am not polite. Step back, walk away, start asking him about himself, mention the police, etc. If my wallet is out, at the ATM for example, my policy is to put it immediately in my pocket if anyone speaks to me before even trying to understand what is being said. Whenever anyone approaches me first, I become suspicious. I am normally very polite, but the problem with politeness is that the various psychopaths you will meet in life are quite willing to use your politeness against you. I never answer any questions about myself from strangers. "Why do you ask?" is one of my favorite responses.

Not every adverse outcome in life is avoidable, but you can avoid being suckered into something. Sounds like you handled this one ok, Jing, but I would recommend terminating such an interaction immediately, even if not gracefully.

[MrMuddle]

Sorry , I can't offer any advice on "skimming " of your cards. It does seem though, that criminals always seem to be a step ahead, with plastic card technology.

I would suggest that if you have Debit cards, that you don't keep a large amount in the Bank account that it draws from, better to have a deposit type account which can't be accessed by card. As for Credit cards, keep the amount that you can borrow on it as low as you can. Using both these methods will ensure that if you are a victim, then the amount lost will be relatively small.

I do hope your fears are unfounded, though it's worth remembering, that if you do get in trouble in Pattaya, there's always plenty of ex-SAS and ex-US special forces chaps you can call on for help !!

[tailspin]

maybe the Indian bloke was reaching for all the moths flying out of the OPs wallet