Lawyers Submit 'Unchanged' Preah Vihear Case To ICJ

[webfact]

BORDER CONFLICTS

Lawyers submit 'unchanged' Preah Vihear case to ICJ

The Nation

Thailand's legal team yesterday submitted a letter of observation to the International Court of Justice (ICJ) in The Hague to support its argument in the court's interpretation of its 1962 judgement on the Preah Vihear Temple border dispute with Cambodia, Foreign Minister Surapong Tovichakchaikul said.

"The 600-page document…has been submitted to the court and I am confident it is logical and convincing enough [to win] the legal battle," Surapong told reporters.

Thailand and Cambodia's conflict over disputed land near the temple has led to military clashes in recent years, the most serious of them in February this year.

The ICJ ruled in 1962 that the Hindu temple is situated in Cambodian territory, but Thailand argues that a stretch of land adjacent to the temple belongs to it.

Cambodia brought the case to the court in April, asking for an interpretation of the original ruling to clarify that the territory adjacent to the temple is Cambodian territory.

Phnom Penh backed up its argument with French maps from the colonial era that indicate the temple is on the Cambodian side of the border.

Surapong did not disclose details of the documents the Thai team submitted to the court, but said they were in line with arguments made under the previous government. The Kingdom's legal team is unchanged, and there has been no shift in the legal case, he said.

Asked if the government would try to convince Cambodia to withdraw the case, Surapong said it was better to allow the court to make a decision, given the difficulty the two countries have experienced in finding a proper solution to the matter.

-- The Nation 2011-11-22

[Kvwielink]

Anyone who believes that Thailand would accept the verdict of the ICJ and give the land to Cambodia if the ruling is not in Thailand's favor raise your hand....

[maidu]

I read somewhere else, the Thai report was 900 pages. Whether 600 or 900, that's waaaaay too many pages. Probably written in Thai.

It's a reflection of how Thai bureaucracy is sooooooo overwrought. Even the simplest item (relating to gov't) can get buried in paper and pomp. I have some property here in n.Thailand with no title. The paperwork on it is an inch thick! .....just one piece of property.

The best thing for the disputed temple to be be jointly administered. Impossible in SE Asia. Yet, there are 18 World Heritage sites around the world which are jointly administered by their bordering countries. Not surprisingly, none are in Asia. Spratly Islands could also be designated a 'world site' or 'international marine park' if Asian countries could think outside their archaic Balkanized ways, ......but couldn't happen in Asia. Too archaic-minded. .....so they try to cover-up their small mindedness by burying it in tons of bureaucratic page writing.

[Bagwan]

I read somewhere else, the Thai report was 900 pages. Whether 600 or 900, that's waaaaay too many pages. Probably written in Thai.

It's a reflection of how Thai bureaucracy is sooooooo overwrought. Even the simplest item (relating to gov't) can get buried in paper and pomp. I have some property here in n.Thailand with no title. The paperwork on it is an inch thick! .....just one piece of property.

The best thing for the disputed temple to be be jointly administered. Impossible in SE Asia. Yet, there are 18 World Heritage sites around the world which are jointly administered by their bordering countries. Not surprisingly, none are in Asia. Spratly Islands could also be designated a 'world site' or 'international marine park' if Asian countries could think outside their archaic Balkanized ways, ......but couldn't happen in Asia. Too archaic-minded. .....so they try to cover-up their small mindedness by burying it in tons of bureaucratic page writing.

Pythagorean theorem: 24 words.

Lord's prayer: 66 words.

Archimedes' Principle: 67 words.

10 Commandments: 179 words.

Gettysburg address: 286 words.

US Declaration of Independence : 1,300 words.

US Constitution with all 27 Amendments: 7,818 words.

EU regulations on the sale of cabbage: 26,911 words.

Need I Say More?

[whybother]

I read somewhere else, the Thai report was 900 pages. Whether 600 or 900, that's waaaaay too many pages. Probably written in Thai.

It's a reflection of how Thai bureaucracy is sooooooo overwrought. Even the simplest item (relating to gov't) can get buried in paper and pomp. I have some property here in n.Thailand with no title. The paperwork on it is an inch thick! .....just one piece of property.

The best thing for the disputed temple to be be jointly administered. Impossible in SE Asia. Yet, there are 18 World Heritage sites around the world which are jointly administered by their bordering countries. Not surprisingly, none are in Asia. Spratly Islands could also be designated a 'world site' or 'international marine park' if Asian countries could think outside their archaic Balkanized ways, ......but couldn't happen in Asia. Too archaic-minded. .....so they try to cover-up their small mindedness by burying it in tons of bureaucratic page writing.

Given that the courts have ruled, and Thailand has accepted, that the temple is on Cambodian soil, I don't think the Cambodians would be in favour of it being jointly administered.

[Thaddeus]

Madness is repeating the same action and expecting different results.

[webfact]

Thailand submits 'Written Observations' on Preah Vihear

BANGKOK, Nov 22 -- Thailand on Monday presented its 'Written Observations' regarding Cambodia’s petition to the International Court of Justice (ICJ) requesting interpretation of the 1962 verdict on the historic Preah Vihear temple and was confident regarding its evidence, according to Thai Minister of Foreign Affairs Surapong Tovichakchaikul.

Mr Surapong said that his Cambodian counterpart Hor Namhong, who is also deputy prime minister, wanted the issue to be concluded peacefully as soon as possible.

The foreign minister said the legal team led by Thailand’s ambassador to the Hague Virachai Plasai, as agent of the Thai government and Treaties Affairs Department Director-General Ittiporn Boonprakong, assistant to the agent, submitted the written observations to the International Court of Justice (ICJ) at 5pm (Thailand time) within its requested timeframe.

The report contains 300 pages of detailed narrative and 600 pages of annexes which cannot be disclosed unless permitted by the ICJ, Mr Surapong said.

The Thai legal team, set up by the Abhisit Vejjajiva government on May 3, is led by Virachai Plasai and includes three foreign lawyers, one each from France, Canada and Australia.

Mr Surapong said that all members of all three legal teams were the same who worked on the case from the beginning. Only the minister of foreign affairs has changed.

He said the case needed continuity as it was an important issue and the foreign lawyers were all well qualified and have experience in international cases.

The minister said he was confident regarding the evidence. The relations between Thailand and Cambodia have been improving since the Pheu Thai-led government took office. He said he believed this could be a factor to finding a solution to the dispute easily.

Mr Surapong said that he has had an informal conversation with Cambodian Foreign Minister Hor Namhong in which expressed his desire to see a peaceful solution and wanted the committees representing the two nations to move on.

The Cambodian government in April asked the court to interpret its 1962 verdict on the ownership of Preah Vihear and the disputed surrounding area.

Cambodia also asked the court to issue an injunction ordering Thailand to withdraw its troops from the disputed area around the Preah Vihear after relations between the two countries soured in the wake of Cambodia's bid to have the temple listed as a World Heritage Site.

The court ruled in 1962 that the historic temple was on Cambodian soil, but its ruling was not clear about ownership of the surrounding 4.6 square kilometre area. Thai and Cambodian troops have clashed repeatedly as each side attempted to assert sovereignty of the disputed adjacent areas.

As for the injunction, the ICJ ruled on July 18 that both Cambodia and Thailand with their troops to temporarily develop the disputed areas as a demilitarised zone and that Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) observers should be present in the zone. (MCOT online news)

-- TNA 2011-11-22

[KKK]

I read somewhere else, the Thai report was 900 pages. Whether 600 or 900, that's waaaaay too many pages. Probably written in Thai.

It's a reflection of how Thai bureaucracy is sooooooo overwrought. Even the simplest item (relating to gov't) can get buried in paper and pomp. I have some property here in n.Thailand with no title. The paperwork on it is an inch thick! .....just one piece of property.

The best thing for the disputed temple to be be jointly administered. Impossible in SE Asia. Yet, there are 18 World Heritage sites around the world which are jointly administered by their bordering countries. Not surprisingly, none are in Asia. Spratly Islands could also be designated a 'world site' or 'international marine park' if Asian countries could think outside their archaic Balkanized ways, ......but couldn't happen in Asia. Too archaic-minded. .....so they try to cover-up their small mindedness by burying it in tons of bureaucratic page writing.

Pythagorean theorem: 24 words.

Lord's prayer: 66 words.

Archimedes' Principle: 67 words.

10 Commandments: 179 words.

Gettysburg address: 286 words.

US Declaration of Independence : 1,300 words.

US Constitution with all 27 Amendments: 7,818 words.

EU regulations on the sale of cabbage: 26,911 words.

Need I Say More?

Absolutley brilliant......I googled "how many word on an a4 page" and got varying figures 300 to 1000. Taking this Thai report at 600 pages x 350 words (the most conservative) = 210,000 words. That's about 8 cabbage regulations and probably worth about as much.

[maidu]

I read somewhere else, the Thai report was 900 pages. Whether 600 or 900, that's waaaaay too many pages. Probably written in Thai.

It's a reflection of how Thai bureaucracy is sooooooo overwrought. Even the simplest item (relating to gov't) can get buried in paper and pomp. I have some property here in n.Thailand with no title. The paperwork on it is an inch thick! .....just one piece of property.

The best thing for the disputed temple to be be jointly administered. Impossible in SE Asia. Yet, there are 18 World Heritage sites around the world which are jointly administered by their bordering countries. Not surprisingly, none are in Asia. Spratly Islands could also be designated a 'world site' or 'international marine park' if Asian countries could think outside their archaic Balkanized ways, ......but couldn't happen in Asia. Too archaic-minded. .....so they try to cover-up their small mindedness by burying it in tons of bureaucratic page writing.

Pythagorean theorem: 24 words.

Lord's prayer: 66 words.

Archimedes' Principle: 67 words.

10 Commandments: 179 words.

Gettysburg address: 286 words.

US Declaration of Independence : 1,300 words.

US Constitution with all 27 Amendments: 7,818 words.

EU regulations on the sale of cabbage: 26,911 words.

Need I Say More?

Absolutley brilliant......I googled "how many word on an a4 page" and got varying figures 300 to 1000. Taking this Thai report at 600 pages x 350 words (the most conservative) = 210,000 words. That's about 8 cabbage regulations and probably worth about as much.

Imagine the poor translator who has to crunch it in to English, and also in to Cambodian. Asians have trouble translating a item on a restaurant menu. Plus their sentences are run-on with no spaces between words, and no capital letters for proper names and places. I doubt they do much with abbreviations either, so each time the temple name is mentioned (could be 125 digits), it's probably written in full. I pity the poor sucker who has to try to translate that quarter million word muddle.

I once saw a special on Thai TV of a royal Thai entourage visiting Denmark. The translation of the narration (supposedly in to English) was so ridiculous - it defied belief. I think they ran the translator from Thai, to Bulgarian, to Finnish, to Latin (yes, a lot of Latin words), to Samoan, and then to English.

[Buchholz]

Cambodia also asked the court to issue an injunction ordering Thailand to withdraw its troops from the disputed area around the Preah Vihear after relations between the two countries soured in the wake of Cambodia's bid to have the temple listed as a World Heritage Site.

Yingluck announced this afternoon that Thai troops would not withdraw from the temple area.

.

[whybother]

Cambodia also asked the court to issue an injunction ordering Thailand to withdraw its troops from the disputed area around the Preah Vihear after relations between the two countries soured in the wake of Cambodia's bid to have the temple listed as a World Heritage Site.

Yingluck announced this afternoon that Thai troops would not withdraw from the temple area.

She's trying to keep the PAD happy.

[Scott]

One conspiracy theory has been removed and a reply to it.

[Thai at Heart]

I read somewhere else, the Thai report was 900 pages. Whether 600 or 900, that's waaaaay too many pages. Probably written in Thai.

It's a reflection of how Thai bureaucracy is sooooooo overwrought. Even the simplest item (relating to gov't) can get buried in paper and pomp. I have some property here in n.Thailand with no title. The paperwork on it is an inch thick! .....just one piece of property.

The best thing for the disputed temple to be be jointly administered. Impossible in SE Asia. Yet, there are 18 World Heritage sites around the world which are jointly administered by their bordering countries. Not surprisingly, none are in Asia. Spratly Islands could also be designated a 'world site' or 'international marine park' if Asian countries could think outside their archaic Balkanized ways, ......but couldn't happen in Asia. Too archaic-minded. .....so they try to cover-up their small mindedness by burying it in tons of bureaucratic page writing.

Pythagorean theorem: 24 words.

Lord's prayer: 66 words.

Archimedes' Principle: 67 words.

10 Commandments: 179 words.

Gettysburg address: 286 words.

US Declaration of Independence : 1,300 words.

US Constitution with all 27 Amendments: 7,818 words.

EU regulations on the sale of cabbage: 26,911 words.

Need I Say More?

Absolutley brilliant......I googled "how many word on an a4 page" and got varying figures 300 to 1000. Taking this Thai report at 600 pages x 350 words (the most conservative) = 210,000 words. That's about 8 cabbage regulations and probably worth about as much.

Imagine the poor translator who has to crunch it in to English, and also in to Cambodian. Asians have trouble translating a item on a restaurant menu. Plus their sentences are run-on with no spaces between words, and no capital letters for proper names and places. I doubt they do much with abbreviations either, so each time the temple name is mentioned (could be 125 digits), it's probably written in full. I pity the poor sucker who has to try to translate that quarter million word muddle.

I once saw a special on Thai TV of a royal Thai entourage visiting Denmark. The translation of the narration (supposedly in to English) was so ridiculous - it defied belief. I think they ran the translator from Thai, to Bulgarian, to Finnish, to Latin (yes, a lot of Latin words), to Samoan, and then to English.

It probably has the full name for Bangkok on every page in the letter head.

[Buchholz]

Cambodia also asked the court to issue an injunction ordering Thailand to withdraw its troops from the disputed area around the Preah Vihear after relations between the two countries soured in the wake of Cambodia's bid to have the temple listed as a World Heritage Site.

Yingluck announced this afternoon that Thai troops would not withdraw from the temple area.

Thailand, Cambodia to discuss troop redeployment in December

BANGKOK -- Thai-Cambodian General Border Committee (GBC) meeting will be held in December in Cambodia to discuss in further detail the redeployment of military along both countries'border, Thailand's state-run media MCOT quoted Defence Minister Gen Yutthasak Sasiprapa as saying on Monday.

Related Thai authorities are waiting for Phnom Penh to confirm details of the talks, Gen Yutthasak said. The content that Thai delegations will bring up for the discussion has been already approved by the Parliament as required by Article 190 of the 2007 Constitution, he added.

In March following deadly clashes along the two countries' border, Cambodia asked the International Court of Justice (ICJ) in The Hague to reconsider its 1962 verdict and to issue provisional measures during the reinterpretation. The court on July 18 ordered Thailand and Cambodia to withdraw their troops from the newly-defined demilitarized zone in a disputed area around the ancient Preah Vihear Temple.

Continues:

http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/90777/7658895.html

Xinhua - Nov. 28, 2011

[bigbamboo]

I read somewhere else, the Thai report was 900 pages. Whether 600 or 900, that's waaaaay too many pages. Probably written in Thai.

It's a reflection of how Thai bureaucracy is sooooooo overwrought. Even the simplest item (relating to gov't) can get buried in paper and pomp. I have some property here in n.Thailand with no title. The paperwork on it is an inch thick! .....just one piece of property.

The best thing for the disputed temple to be be jointly administered. Impossible in SE Asia. Yet, there are 18 World Heritage sites around the world which are jointly administered by their bordering countries. Not surprisingly, none are in Asia. Spratly Islands could also be designated a 'world site' or 'international marine park' if Asian countries could think outside their archaic Balkanized ways, ......but couldn't happen in Asia. Too archaic-minded. .....so they try to cover-up their small mindedness by burying it in tons of bureaucratic page writing.

Given that the courts have ruled, and Thailand has accepted, that the temple is on Cambodian soil, I don't think the Cambodians would be in favour of it being jointly administered.

Surely the best thing would be for things to go back as they were before it became a UN world heritage site when the locals got on with each other just fine and the politicians weren't interested because there was no profit (political or financial) in it.

Edited November 29, 2011 by bigbamboo

[Thaddeus]

I read somewhere else, the Thai report was 900 pages. Whether 600 or 900, that's waaaaay too many pages. Probably written in Thai.

It's a reflection of how Thai bureaucracy is sooooooo overwrought. Even the simplest item (relating to gov't) can get buried in paper and pomp. I have some property here in n.Thailand with no title. The paperwork on it is an inch thick! .....just one piece of property.

The best thing for the disputed temple to be be jointly administered. Impossible in SE Asia. Yet, there are 18 World Heritage sites around the world which are jointly administered by their bordering countries. Not surprisingly, none are in Asia. Spratly Islands could also be designated a 'world site' or 'international marine park' if Asian countries could think outside their archaic Balkanized ways, ......but couldn't happen in Asia. Too archaic-minded. .....so they try to cover-up their small mindedness by burying it in tons of bureaucratic page writing.

Given that the courts have ruled, and Thailand has accepted, that the temple is on Cambodian soil, I don't think the Cambodians would be in favour of it being jointly administered.

Surely the best thing would be for things to go back as they were before it became a UN world heritage site when the locals got on with each other just fine and the politicians weren't interested because there was no profit (political or financial) in it.

Wouldn't make the slightest bit of difference now, when one side or the other needs to wave the nationalistic flag for political reasons, it will still be there right on the front line.