Proof Of Income Question, Regarding Marriage

[Lite Beer]

I think you will find you can use a joint bank account to support a marriage visa extension,

provided, of course, that the account is in the names of you and your thai wife.

Nope. It has to be in the Husbands name only.

[Just1Voice]

Ok, a few things that may have some bearing.

1) Sometime a few months back an article in that "other paper" stated Thai Immigration said they were changing things a bit, as they found out too many people were lying about their income and getting their respective Embassy/Consulate to issue an "Income Verification" based simply on the word of the person applying, and that those people would now not only have to have the Income Verification from their Embassy/Consulate, but also provide proof of the income as well. I know a few people who have been doing exactly that and went into "panic mode". Now, whether or not they have actually done this is a different story, as I haven't heard of anyone yet having to do that. Maybe another of their laws which are applied on a whim, or the kind of day the Immigration Officer is having.

2) When I went for my 90 day in July, I talked to them about changing my visa from Non-O w/Marriage Extension to Retirement. The woman I was directed to was very nice and asked what my "approximate" yearly or monthly income was. When I told her she laughed and said: "Ok! No problem!" Then asked me where the money was from. I explained that I have full Military Disability, as well as Social Security. She said I should go to the Consulate and get a "PENSION VERIFICATION", which is not the same as an Income Verification, then bring that, along with something, anything from VA & SS, and that was all they needed. I contacted the Consulate here in Chiang Mai by email about a Pension Verification. They don't have a form for that, so I "modified" and Income Verification form and emailed that to them, and took a copy to Immigration to see if that would be okay. Consulate said: "Hey, nice form! Okay, that works for us." and Immigration just smiled and said it works for them as well.

3) She explained that, to them (Thai), income can stop or be cut off at any time, while a Government Pension is something they understand as being permanent and lifelong.

As a little side note, when I first asked about changing to a Retirement, the very first thing out of the guy's mouth was: "Oh, you get divorce?" He didn't notice, at first, my Thai wife standing beside me at the time, but the very icy "No, he did not ", in perfect English, quickly directed his attention to her. I just stood there and chuckled softly as the man made "most humble apologies" to my puyai appearing wife.

:jap:

[Jayman]

Ok, a few things that may have some bearing.

1) Sometime a few months back an article in that "other paper" stated Thai Immigration said they were changing things a bit, as they found out too many people were lying about their income and getting their respective Embassy/Consulate to issue an "Income Verification" based simply on the word of the person applying, and that those people would now not only have to have the Income Verification from their Embassy/Consulate, but also provide proof of the income as well. I know a few people who have been doing exactly that and went into "panic mode". Now, whether or not they have actually done this is a different story, as I haven't heard of anyone yet having to do that. Maybe another of their laws which are applied on a whim, or the kind of day the Immigration Officer is having.

It might have been that very article that even put this whole idea in my mind that further proof might be required for my next extension. I do have the legal required income but it might not be so easy to show proof of that other than maybe showing regular incoming wires into my thai bank account.

On your 2nd point, I'm just wondering why you would want to change to a retirement visa vs the support of thai family visa since the retirement one has much higher requirements. That could be why the agent even asked as it seems very odd if you're still married that you'd want to change to a more difficult to maintain extension. Maybe you have some info I don't know that is making you want to change. Would you mind sharing that with us to enlighten us.

[lopburi3]

She said I should go to the Consulate and get a "PENSION VERIFICATION", which is not the same as an Income Verification

Actually the geriatric form from US Embassy can cover any type of pension/income. I have been using it for a decade without any questions.

I also affirm that I receive US$ _________________ every month from the

United States Government and/or other sources. I am applying for a Thai visa/

an extension of a current Thai visa and any assistance you can provide in this

request will be greatly appreciated.

[wayned]

The reservation system at the US Embassy has been available for a long time and they would always process those that had reservations before walk-ins. They recently put notice on their website that everybody had to have a reservation and updated their on line reservation system. They have removed the queing number machine from the office and replaced it with a sign "report to window 3". They were still processing walk-ins when I was there and I suspect that they will continue to. My reservation was for 0730 and was pleased to see that the usual mob was not there, just three walk-ins.

Ths British Embassy, on Wireless Rd same as the US Embassy, has recently stated that they are only seeing people by appointment. This is due to the floods, lack of staff etc, and should revert to normal when the flood crisis is over. Perhaps this is the reason the US Embassy has changed to an appointment only system?

I did mine on the 19th of October, nothing's changed. They do say that you have to now have an appointment and have removed the queing number machine. I had an appointment, but they were processing walk-ins as usual. The rumor about proof is still there but the lady behind the window didn;t know anything about it when I asked her.

For the US embassy it used to be you walk in and fill out the affidavit form stating your monthly income and pay the fee for notarization and then swear it's true and they stamp/sign it. I did that a year ago for my extension to stay based on marriage. I plan on doing the same again in 4 months for my next extension to stay. The US embassy did not require any evidence on my part other than my sworn statement.

I have heard rumors that this procedure might have changed. Does anyone have any current experience on this that can confirm or deny that anything has changed in the way they process the affidavit of income?

Much appreciated.

Edited November 27, 2011 by wayned

[TerryLH]

"Maybe another of their laws which are applied on a whim, or the kind of day the Immigration Officer is having."

Or maybe some people just have something about them, or their paperwork, that arouses suspicion.

"I'm just wondering why you would want to change to a retirement visa vs the support of thai family visa since the retirement one has much higher requirements."

The financials are higher, but if you have them it's a much easier extension to get. Fewer documents, and you get the extension right away (almost every imm office) insread of having to come back in 30 days.

Plus, the immigration officers like it better because it's less work for them to process.

[wayned]

When I stopped teaching a couple of years ago, I went in to get a marriage exrension. The officer looked at my paperwork and asked, "why marriage not retirement" I said that I thought that I might look for work and she said "get a retirement you're too old to work and there's too much work to get a marriage" so I get a retirement right there and then since I didn't have all of the documents to get a marriage extension., the updated marriage registration form from the Amphur that was 400 kilometers away..

"Maybe another of their laws which are applied on a whim, or the kind of day the Immigration Officer is having."

Or maybe some people just have something about them, or their paperwork, that arouses suspicion.

"I'm just wondering why you would want to change to a retirement visa vs the support of thai family visa since the retirement one has much higher requirements."

The financials are higher, but if you have them it's a much easier extension to get. Fewer documents, and you get the extension right away (almost every imm office) insread of having to come back in 30 days.

Plus, the immigration officers like it better because it's less work for them to process.

Edited November 27, 2011 by wayned

[Jayman]

When I stopped teaching a couple of years ago, I went in to get a marriage exrension. The officer looked at my paperwork and asked, "why marriage not retirement" I said that I thought that I might look for work and she said "get a retirement you're too old to work and there's too much work to get a marriage" so I get a retirement right there and then since I didn't have all of the documents to get a marriage extension., the updated marriage registration form from the Amphur that was 400 kilometers away..

"Maybe another of their laws which are applied on a whim, or the kind of day the Immigration Officer is having."

Or maybe some people just have something about them, or their paperwork, that arouses suspicion.

"I'm just wondering why you would want to change to a retirement visa vs the support of thai family visa since the retirement one has much higher requirements."

The financials are higher, but if you have them it's a much easier extension to get. Fewer documents, and you get the extension right away (almost every imm office) insread of having to come back in 30 days.

Plus, the immigration officers like it better because it's less work for them to process.

I'm well under the retirement visa age so that's not even an option for me. But when I did my first extension for marriage I don't remember any special documents I had to have other than my marriage certificate. I think they also asked for some pictures of my wife, child, and I in front of the house and also on the bed (that one seemed a little odd). None of it seemed as complicated as you guys are making it sound. I also needed the affidavit of income from the embassy which was the most time consuming part but you would need that for the retirement visa extension as well right? The fact is the money requirements are MUCH lower so I'm not sure why you guys keep saying it's easier to get the retirement over the marriage one. For me, it couldn't have been any simpler. I will add that I got mine done at the Jomtien office and they are always very kind and helpful.

[lopburi3]

The reason we say it is because it is easier for all concerned. It is a local decision so officer feels much more comfortable than when approving something that is going to be reviewed, by higher officials, in Bangkok later. Only one person, two items (over 50 and financials) and immediate stamp. No requirement to visit home, obtain photos of family, interview spouse, obtain her documents, return visit a month or so later.

Thai wife or spouse is not that hard - but retirement is less paperwork for all and one visit.

[Jayman]

The reason we say it is because it is easier for all concerned. It is a local decision so officer feels much more comfortable than when approving something that is going to be reviewed, by higher officials, in Bangkok later. Only one person, two items (over 50 and financials) and immediate stamp. No requirement to visit home, obtain photos of family, interview spouse, obtain her documents, return visit a month or so later.

Thai wife or spouse is not that hard - but retirement is less paperwork for all and one visit.

I see your point. It's more for the convenience of the immigration officials than anything else. For me, no one came to visit my house as the pictures sufficed. My wife was with me during the application process so there was no special interview she had to go through. The having to come back in 30 days to pick up the completed stamped documents was not such a big deal as it meant that the 90 days reporting started from that date. All in all maybe I feel it was so easy as getting my wife a green card for the US took years of processing, many interviews, a ton of paperwork, an entire family album of pictures, huge fees along the way and much grief over worrying if it would ever get approved. Compared to that, this was a total walk in the park.

Of course I realize I'm comparing her 10 year permanent residence to my 1 year extension but even getting her a visa to enter the US was a major PITA.

Edited November 27, 2011 by Jayman

[Just1Voice]

"Maybe another of their laws which are applied on a whim, or the kind of day the Immigration Officer is having."

Or maybe some people just have something about them, or their paperwork, that arouses suspicion.

"I'm just wondering why you would want to change to a retirement visa vs the support of thai family visa since the retirement one has much higher requirements."

The financials are higher, but if you have them it's a much easier extension to get. Fewer documents, and you get the extension right away (almost every imm office) insread of having to come back in 30 days.

Plus, the immigration officers like it better because it's less work for them to process.

Thanks, Terry, you saved me the time. lol

[TomTao]

If your income is from outside Thailand you will need to prove it, I had to take original pay statements to the Department of Foreign Affairs and have them translated and certified, I also needed a letter from the bank where I have my account in Thailand written in Thai along with a printed bank statement.

I did my extension based on marriage in the Jomtien office about 10 months ago and all I needed was the affidavit from the US embassy as far as income was concerned. No bank statements or pay stubs. To be clear, all my income comes from outside of Thailand and it's not any sort of government pension or anything like that.

When I did my application in August last year Immigration said they were no longer accepting stat decs, the new requirement was for original income statements translated into Thai and verified at the Department of Foreign Affairs.

[TomTao]

Ok Thank you. Ill take the bank statements and see what happens

I will bet money they will say NO

Money in Thai bank with statements + letter from bank manager

or

Bank statements from foreign bank + letter from Embassy confirming income

can the former be in a joint account with my wife?

When I asked about a joint account with my Thai wife Immigration said that if I had a joint account then the same income and deposit requirements apply to both account holders with proof of income for both, so if you need ฿40,000 per month income or ฿400,000 deposited in you Thai bank account or a combination of both, then the same applies to your wife. After hearing this we decided it is better to have an individual account.

[Jayman]

If your income is from outside Thailand you will need to prove it, I had to take original pay statements to the Department of Foreign Affairs and have them translated and certified, I also needed a letter from the bank where I have my account in Thailand written in Thai along with a printed bank statement.

I did my extension based on marriage in the Jomtien office about 10 months ago and all I needed was the affidavit from the US embassy as far as income was concerned. No bank statements or pay stubs. To be clear, all my income comes from outside of Thailand and it's not any sort of government pension or anything like that.

When I did my application in August last year Immigration said they were no longer accepting stat decs, the new requirement was for original income statements translated into Thai and verified at the Department of Foreign Affairs.

Which immigration office did you do your paperwork at?

[TomTao]

If your income is from outside Thailand you will need to prove it, I had to take original pay statements to the Department of Foreign Affairs and have them translated and certified, I also needed a letter from the bank where I have my account in Thailand written in Thai along with a printed bank statement.

I did my extension based on marriage in the Jomtien office about 10 months ago and all I needed was the affidavit from the US embassy as far as income was concerned. No bank statements or pay stubs. To be clear, all my income comes from outside of Thailand and it's not any sort of government pension or anything like that.

When I did my application in August last year Immigration said they were no longer accepting stat decs, the new requirement was for original income statements translated into Thai and verified at the Department of Foreign Affairs.

Which immigration office did you do your paperwork at?

Ranong, I should also add that my income is an Australian goverment pension, it is a veteran's pension combined with a disability pension, that may have some bearing on the different requirements. We have also had problems with the 90 day mail in reporting, I have not got any reply from the office, so I had to go to the mobile team that comes to the local Tesco, I was five days late, but when I showed them the receipt from the post office proving I had posted in ahead of time there was no problem. When my wife called the office to find out why the delay in returning the paperwork, the officer said to her "why don't you come here? Someone misses you here." when she passed the phone to me the officer said something in Thai and hung up.

Edited January 3, 2012 by TomTao

[ludditeman]

The reason we say it is because it is easier for all concerned. It is a local decision so officer feels much more comfortable than when approving something that is going to be reviewed, by higher officials, in Bangkok later. Only one person, two items (over 50 and financials) and immediate stamp. No requirement to visit home, obtain photos of family, interview spouse, obtain her documents, return visit a month or so later.

Thai wife or spouse is not that hard - but retirement is less paperwork for all and one visit.

I see your point. It's more for the convenience of the immigration officials than anything else. For me, no one came to visit my house as the pictures sufficed. My wife was with me during the application process so there was no special interview she had to go through. The having to come back in 30 days to pick up the completed stamped documents was not such a big deal as it meant that the 90 days reporting started from that date. All in all maybe I feel it was so easy as getting my wife a green card for the US took years of processing, many interviews, a ton of paperwork, an entire family album of pictures, huge fees along the way and much grief over worrying if it would ever get approved. Compared to that, this was a total walk in the park.

Of course I realize I'm comparing her 10 year permanent residence to my 1 year extension but even getting her a visa to enter the US was a major PITA.

But by changing to a retirement Visa, you lose the ability to apply for Citizenship or Permanent Residency, and you can't work in Thailand.

[Jayman]

Just wanted to say that I did my 1 year extension to support Thai family today at Jomtien immigration and they accepted my affidavit from US embassy as proof of income without requiring any other supporting documents.

[billd766]

Should be no probs with British Embassy for income letter if you receive British Military pension. I do it every year for combined income for annual retirement extension. Used to go down in person but now through the mail. If you pay income tax on your pension you will receive your P60 form from Xafinity Paymaster,show that. I recently met up with an ex Matelot up here and he told me he did not pay tax on his pension as his annual pension was less than his personal tax allowance, he still had mail every year from Paymaster telling him what annual/monthly pension amount due.

I get an RAF pension from the UK and they write to me every year stating the annual rates. They also send me a P60 showing tax paid or not paid every year.

The UK consulate in Chiang Mai do accept that as proof especially as I ask the Pension people to quote me a gross figure.

My RAF pension is shown as an INTERNATIONAL TRADE DEPARTMENT entry on my KBank book.

It does not specify who or where it is from.

You need the actual leeter from the Pension Department.

The consulate will issue with an embossed letter saying that you have shown them the letter and you will need to take both letters (plus copies) to Immigration.

Immigration will check on the currency exchange rate of the day and use that information.

Edited February 11, 2012 by billd766

[lopburi3]

Immigration should only require the Consulate letter. Anything else can be requested to support but normally is not.

[Markaew]

(6) In case of marriage with a Thai lady, the husband who is an alien must have an average annual income of not less than 40,000 baht per month or a money deposit in a local Thai bank of not less than 400,000 baht for the past 2 months for expenses within a year.

Are you referring to a non-o? It is my understanding that the first time you apply for a non-o you need to show 3 months account balance of 400K and then renewals only require 2 months show of account balance of 400K. Am I correct here?

[lopburi3]

All extensions for Thai wife require funds in account for two months prior to application.

[Jayman]

I have never had to show any bank account info either when getting my cat-o in the US or when applying for the 1-year extension here in thailand (2x now). In Thailand I have just had to show I meet the min 40k a month income which is easily done by getting the affidavit at the US embassy.

just to clarify.. this is all done based on support of a thai family.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Jayman

[Mario2008]

I have never had to show any bank account info either when getting my cat-o in the US or when applying for the 1-year extension here in thailand (2x now). In Thailand I have just had to show I meet the min 40k a month income which is easily done by getting the affidavit at the US embassy.

just to clarify.. this is all done based on support of a thai family.

You either show 400,000 in the bank for 2 month OR you show an income of 40,000 a month.

[zippydedodah]

I did my extension based on marriage about 2 months ago and for the first time (in 3 years) i was asked to provide copies of the statements from my pension fund... previously i used letter from the consulate here in CM, but the officer told me that i did not need that letter (there went 50 bucks!) and to come back next day with some copies of the payment vouchers in my name. I did, no problem. Officer told me to save my money and next year only bring in copies of some of the statements. Again - all this in CM immigraion

[lopburi3]

Very interesting. Has anyone else had such an offer to not require embassy letter?

[Jayman]

For me I have no pension receipts or pay check stubs to show them. For me my only proof of income is the Embassy letter. I never thought that the Embassy letter was a requirement but rather another choice to show proof of income. I always thought that you could prove your income via other means if you wanted to. Maybe I made the wrong assumptions here as for me the letter was the only proof I have (other than just showing my thai bank book with regular incoming wires)

[Billmont]

Sorry i forgot to say that i dont have any proof of my salary here in Thailand.. Just bank statements showing my Army pension that goes into my bank.. Will this be accepted at the british Embassy.?

I am certainly no expert of this but in my experience the British Embassy is reasonable if you can show sufficient evidence of income. I would have thought that Bank Statements showing regular income, especially if it is referenced Army, Gov or similar would be sufficient. I just have a letter from my Solicitor stating my rental income. The Embassy's letter states that Mr........... has produced a letter from his solicitor showing his rental income is GBP........... On the two occasions I have done this I have had neither a problem with the Embassy or the Immigration.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Billmont