Burglary Hot Potato Could End Up Burning A Lot Of Hands: Thai Opinion

[webfact]

WATCHDOG

Burglary hot potato could end up burning a lot of hands

Nophakhun Limsamarnphun

The mysterious Bt17 million recovered by police following a burglary at the home of Suphoth Sublom, the suspended permanent secretary of the Transport Ministry, has become a hot political potato involving key figures of the previous government.

Former premier Abhisit Vejjajiva, leader of the opposition Democrat Party, welcomed the Yingluck government's move to investigate alleged corruption in this case, while Sophon Sarum, the former transport minister, yesterday held a press conference on the issue.

During a parliamentary session last Thursday, Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung charged that the money stolen from Suphoth's home in Bangkok's Lard Phrao district was a kickback paid in connection with the bidding for several subway mass transit lines, which took place during the previous government's tenure.

In response, Sophon, who was a key figure in Newin Chidchob's Bhum Jai Thai Party, which controlled the Transport Ministry in the previous Abhisit government, told the press that he would file lawsuits against Chalerm for the latter's false accusation.

Sophon urged the government to uncover the truth in this case, as he believes that the whole affair is politically motivated to cover up public discontent with the Yingluck government's failure in managing the country's massive floods and the botched effort to seek a royal pardon for fugitive ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra.

"I will file defamation suits against Chalerm and the Pheu Thai MP who posed the questions for Chalerm during the parliamentary session," Sophon was quoted as saying.

Chalerm told the House of Representatives, citing an account of the police investigation so far, that the robbers were ordered to break into Suphoth's house by some politicians he did not name.

He claimed the politicians wanted their share of the bribe, as the money came from corruption involving the bidding for subway lines, namely, the Red Line, Purple Line and Green Line.

According to Chalerm, the government will ensure that officials involved in this corruption case will face legal action. So far, police have confiscated Bt17.8 million from the robbers, even though Suphoth earlier told police that only Bt5 million was stolen from his house.

Supot rose to the rank of permanent secretary during the tenure of the Abhisit government when the Bhum Jai Thai Party held the transport and other portfolios.

For the ruling Pheu Thai Party, Bhum Jai Thai is a political nemesis because its de-facto leader, Newin, switched camps to join the previous Abhisit government. Now, it's time to take revenge and regain complete control of the Transport Ministry, whose annual budget is one of the highest among all government agencies.

Transport Minister ACM Sukumphol Suwannatat of the Pheu Thai Party needs a strong reason to remove Suphoth from the post of permanent secretary. Therefore, the mysterious millions of baht found by police following the burglary could serve this purpose, while the event also helps discredit the Bhum Jai Thai Party in the court of public opinion.

Both Newin and Sophon are the other two targets in this bizarre burglary, which happened when Bangkok was on high alert for floods.

Suphoth, the embattled permanent secretary who has already been transferred to an inactive post following the episode, reportedly turned off his house's electronic security system for fears of electrical shock on that evening, as he and his family left the house to attend his daughter's wedding reception.

-- The Nation 2011-11-26

[alstaxi]

Curious how the deputy pm would know that the cash was from kick backs???unless......

[Nisa]

I missed the original story. Did they recover the money from his home or if and when the burglars were captured?

[webfact]

I missed the original story. Did they recover the money from his home or if and when the burglars were captured?

[EvilDrSomkid]

Suphoth, the embattled permanent secretary who has already been transferred to an inactive post following the episode, reportedly turned off his house's electronic security system for fears of electrical shock on that evening, as he and his family left the house to attend his daughter's wedding reception.

<deleted>? This is getting stranger all the time.

Lad Phrao 64 was not flooding at that time. He turned OFF the alarm because fear of electric shock?

Why not just say turned off the power?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

According to Chalerm, the government will ensure that officials involved in this corruption case will face legal action.

Ya right... when was the last time that that happened around these parts???

Oh ya... that guy who got convicted of corruption, jumped bail, fled the country, and whom now the current government, led by Chalerm, is trying to pardon on his corruption conviction...depending on what day of the week it is... Great anti-corruption crusaders these guys are...

Re the Transport Minister, if he was taking/receving kickbacks and bribes, he deserves to go to jail..no matter what political party he's affiliated with. But then again, if we were employ that standard across the board, would there be anyone left free to run the government?

PS - Note to self... don't forget to NOT leave my loose 17 million baht in pocket change laying around the house anymore.

Edited November 26, 2011 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[hellodolly]

Suphoth, the embattled permanent secretary who has already been transferred to an inactive post following the episode, reportedly turned off his house's electronic security system for fears of electrical shock on that evening, as he and his family left the house to attend his daughter's wedding reception.

<deleted>? This is getting stranger all the time.

Lad Phrao 64 was not flooding at that time. He turned OFF the alarm because fear of electric shock?

Why not just say turned off the power?

Not sure how he was going to get shocked when he was not home.

How did the burglars figure to profit from the robbery if it was a set up to discredit Suphoth.

To do that they would have to be caught. I realize that there are criminals who are not that smart but to do a job with the intent of being caught and go to jail makes no sense to me.

Particularly when there is up to 17,000,000 baht to be made were they paid 20,000,000 baht to get caught?

[AleG]

According to Chalerm, the government will ensure that officials involved in this corruption case will face legal action.

Ya right... when was the last time that that happened around these parts???

Oh ya... that guy who got convicted of corruption, jumped bail, fled the country, and whom now the current government, led by Chalerm, is trying to pardon on his corruption conviction...depending on what day of the week it is... Great anti-corruption crusaders these guys are...

Re the Transport Minister, if he was taking/receving kickbacks and bribes, he deserves to go to jail..no matter what political party he's affiliated with. But then again, if we were employ that standard across the board, would there be anyone left free to run the government?

PS - Note to self... don't forget to NOT leave my loose 17 million baht in pocket change laying around the house anymore.

Indeed, you shouldn't stash your corruption money under the mattress, it's better to use in something, say, an expensive luxury car, the pinker the better!

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I'm trying to get my head around this story, but it's tough sledding...

The police say here they recovered $17.8 million thus far.

Then another report said the NACC impounded $15 million of seized funds (someone took their commission first???).

Then a prior report quotes the police as saying the accused robbers claim they walked away with up to $100 million baht, and divided it among themselves in various amounts...

And the Transport Minister supposedly told police he lost $5 million...

Sure seems to be a lot of money sloshing around here...

BTW, the Transport Minister is quoted by the media as saying the stolen funds (whatever amount, take your pick) were for his daughter's wedding dowry... Hmm... maybe I ought to plan on meeting that young lady... .

[whybother]

I'm trying to get my head around this story, but it's tough sledding...

The police say here they recovered $17.8 million thus far.

Then another report said the NACC impounded $15 million of seized funds (someone took their commission first???).

Then a prior report quotes the police as saying the accused robbers claim they walked away with up to $100 million baht, and divided it among themselves in various amounts...

And the Transport Minister supposedly told police he lost $5 million...

Sure seems to be a lot of money sloshing around here...

BTW, the Transport Minister is quoted by the media as saying the stolen funds (whatever amount, take your pick) were for his daughter's wedding dowry... Hmm... maybe I ought to plan on meeting that young lady... .

The difference between the police and NACC figure may have been timing. Money has been "dribbling" in as each assailant was caught. There is also talk of one of the ring leaders (not caught yet) having 65 million baht.

BTW ... it's the Transport Permanent Secretary (a bureaucratic position) not the Transport Minister (a political position).

[Orac]

According to Chalerm, the government will ensure that officials involved in this corruption case will face legal action.

Ya right... when was the last time that that happened around these parts???

Oh ya... that guy who got convicted of corruption, jumped bail, fled the country, and whom now the current government, led by Chalerm, is trying to pardon on his corruption conviction...depending on what day of the week it is... Great anti-corruption crusaders these guys are...

Re the Transport Minister, if he was taking/receving kickbacks and bribes, he deserves to go to jail..no matter what political party he's affiliated with. But then again, if we were employ that standard across the board, would there be anyone left free to run the government?

PS - Note to self... don't forget to NOT leave my loose 17 million baht in pocket change laying around the house anymore.

As you imply, the previous governments record on dealing with corruption was terrible with no attempt at all to deal with the issue. As Abhisit admitted, there were a number of high profile cases involving ministers that were brushed under the carpet after the ministers resigned with little in the way of investigation and certainly no legal follow up. Lets hope that this government make a better job of it, though I am not holding my breathe:

Abhisit cited the case of Withoon Nambutr, former social development and human security minister, as an example of a minister who was forced to comply with the rules.

Abhisit said Withoon resigned to take responsibility when it turned out that there were irregularities in the distribution of aid to flood victims.

As another example, Witthaya Kaewparadai had to resign as public health minister due to suspicion of corruption in procurement at the ministry.

Abhisit said the only minister who caused a problem was former deputy public health minister Manit Nopamornbodi of the Bhum Jai Thai Party.

Abhisit said Manit initially refused to resign for fear that his resignation would be tantamount to admitting that he had done something wrong.

But Abhisit explained to Manit that his resignation did not mean he had committed wrongdoing but that the iron rule had to be complied with. Even though Manit was not a Democrat, he eventually resigned.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Thanks WB.. Yes you're correct...

Sorry for my mistake... Should be (now suspended) Transport Perm Sec., not Transport Minister...

And yes, the 65m figure still missing figure you mention corresponds with the earlier reports of 100 million total supposedly involved...

Although, one of the prior articles had a police spokesman saying the robbers already in custody talked about one guy among them getting 35m, another 25 or 20 m, and another 10m or something like that....

But those are the alleged robbers... What about the amounts that supposedly were supposed to go back to the politicians who supposedly ordered the theft in the first place?

[whybother]

According to Chalerm, the government will ensure that officials involved in this corruption case will face legal action.

Ya right... when was the last time that that happened around these parts???

Oh ya... that guy who got convicted of corruption, jumped bail, fled the country, and whom now the current government, led by Chalerm, is trying to pardon on his corruption conviction...depending on what day of the week it is... Great anti-corruption crusaders these guys are...

Re the Transport Minister, if he was taking/receving kickbacks and bribes, he deserves to go to jail..no matter what political party he's affiliated with. But then again, if we were employ that standard across the board, would there be anyone left free to run the government?

PS - Note to self... don't forget to NOT leave my loose 17 million baht in pocket change laying around the house anymore.

As you imply, the previous governments record on dealing with corruption was terrible with no attempt at all to deal with the issue. As Abhisit admitted, there were a number of high profile cases involving ministers that were brushed under the carpet after the ministers resigned with little in the way of investigation and certainly no legal follow up. Lets hope that this government make a better job of it, though I am not holding my breathe:

<snip>

Umm ... where did 'John' imply anything about the previous government?

Abhisit got ministers to resign when they were implicated in any corruption. The current government prefer to pardon politicians involved in corruption.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I don't want to do too much of a diversion, but now seems a good time to reflect:

If Thai people were to learn and understand that they shouldn't be selling their votes to politicians, then maybe they wouldn't get elected politicians who are willing to sell themselves and the public's business for a profit...corrupting the entire system.

There's the old saying that citizens get the governments that they deserve. Living here and reading news like this subject makes me believe that axiom to be true.

BTW, I don't think my prior post did mean to imply anything about the prior government's handling of corruption cases. I didn't intend it to...

There probably are degrees of variation from one group to another, but I'm certainly not in a position to judge on that. Suffice to say, the system at large is infected with corruption, and some individuals and groups are worse about it than others.

Edited November 26, 2011 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[whybother]

Thanks WB.. Yes you're correct...

Sorry for my mistake... Should be (now suspended) Transport Perm Sec., not Transport Minister...

And yes, the 65m figure still missing figure you mention corresponds with the earlier reports of 100 million total supposedly involved...

Although, one of the prior articles had a police spokesman saying the robbers already in custody talked about one guy among them getting 35m, another 25 or 20 m, and another 10m or something like that....

But those are the alleged robbers... What about the amounts that supposedly were supposed to go back to the politicians who supposedly ordered the theft in the first place?

Yes ... there was talk initially of 200m being stolen and up to a billion being there in the first place.

The link to the politicians is purely conjecture at the moment. At first it was disgruntled employees that were reported to have set up the burglary.

[Orac]

According to Chalerm, the government will ensure that officials involved in this corruption case will face legal action.

Ya right... when was the last time that that happened around these parts???

Oh ya... that guy who got convicted of corruption, jumped bail, fled the country, and whom now the current government, led by Chalerm, is trying to pardon on his corruption conviction...depending on what day of the week it is... Great anti-corruption crusaders these guys are...

Re the Transport Minister, if he was taking/receving kickbacks and bribes, he deserves to go to jail..no matter what political party he's affiliated with. But then again, if we were employ that standard across the board, would there be anyone left free to run the government?

PS - Note to self... don't forget to NOT leave my loose 17 million baht in pocket change laying around the house anymore.

As you imply, the previous governments record on dealing with corruption was terrible with no attempt at all to deal with the issue. As Abhisit admitted, there were a number of high profile cases involving ministers that were brushed under the carpet after the ministers resigned with little in the way of investigation and certainly no legal follow up. Lets hope that this government make a better job of it, though I am not holding my breathe:

<snip>

Umm ... where did 'John' imply anything about the previous government?

Abhisit got ministers to resign when they were implicated in any corruption. The current government prefer to pardon politicians involved in corruption.

Erm, he said that last time an official was involved in a legal case involving corruption was Thaksin who was convicted in October 2008. surely the implication from that is that none of the politicians in charge since that point have taken the issue seriously since according to Abhisit there are ample situations where legal action should have been taken.

[Orac]

I don't want to do too much of a diversion, but now seems a good time to reflect:

If Thai people were to learn and understand that they shouldn't be selling their votes to politicians, then maybe they wouldn't get elected politicians who are willing to sell themselves and the public's business for a profit...corrupting the entire system.

There's the old saying that citizens get the governments that they deserve. Living here and reading news like this subject makes me believe that axiom to be true.

Totally agree - the corruption in Thailand is endemic and though the focus is often on politicians it is the bureaucrats behind them that are just as bad. Unfortunately because the ill gotten gains are spread around everyone has everyone else by the balls if something goes wrong. It is very interesting that Chalerm feels he can go after this guy - as the article says, there are a lot of other people that can get burnt in the process as it is unlikely that this he will go down without a fight.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Yes ... there was talk initially of 200m being stolen and up to a billion being there in the first place.

The link to the politicians is purely conjecture at the moment. At first it was disgruntled employees that were reported to have set up the burglary.

YIKES!!!

Unfortunately, anyway you cut it, it smells of corruption.....

Option 1 - Transport Minister with a ton of kickback money and greedy politicians arranging a burglary to get their cut.

Option 2 - Transport Minister with a ton of money that he presumably would be hard-pressed to explain coming from legitimate sources.

I guess there could be an Option 3 - The entire thing is a fabrication and falsified political smear. I wouldn't put that beyond some of the individuals involved...but I wouldn't bet on that one either if and when the dust settles.

[whybother]

Umm ... where did 'John' imply anything about the previous government?

Abhisit got ministers to resign when they were implicated in any corruption. The current government prefer to pardon politicians involved in corruption.

Erm, he said that last time an official was involved in a legal case involving corruption was Thaksin who was convicted in October 2008. surely the implication from that is that none of the politicians in charge since that point have taken the issue seriously since according to Abhisit there are ample situations where legal action should have been taken.

How many politicians have been charged of corruption in the last 10 years?

And the current government are trying to overturn the one case where someone was found guilty.

[Orac]

Umm ... where did 'John' imply anything about the previous government?

Abhisit got ministers to resign when they were implicated in any corruption. The current government prefer to pardon politicians involved in corruption.

Erm, he said that last time an official was involved in a legal case involving corruption was Thaksin who was convicted in October 2008. surely the implication from that is that none of the politicians in charge since that point have taken the issue seriously since according to Abhisit there are ample situations where legal action should have been taken.

How many politicians have been charged of corruption in the last 10 years?

And the current government are trying to overturn the one case where someone was found guilty.

Depends on how you define it but certainly a large number were banned from politics for 5 years - unfortunately their bans are due to run out soon so no doubt they will be wanting to get their noses back into the trough that their siblings and spouses have been taking care of for them while they were on holiday. It PT can do a good job of getting at Newin they might be able to remove them from the table as a potential partner for the Democrats so a surprise election next year might do the trick.

[pitrevie]

Three cheers for Chalerm, now at last we have a government minister pursing these corrupt officials with vigour. Only the other day he was pictured at a table full of drugs and the apprehended miscreant. At this rate Thailand will be free of these corrupt politicians and criminals and he will have time to turn his attention to those turning up at the international airport in flip flops and vests.

[whybother]

Depends on how you define it but certainly a large number were banned from politics for 5 years - unfortunately their bans are due to run out soon so no doubt they will be wanting to get their noses back into the trough that their siblings and spouses have been taking care of for them while they were on holiday. It PT can do a good job of getting at Newin they might be able to remove them from the table as a potential partner for the Democrats so a surprise election next year might do the trick.

Every knows Newin is corrupt, so I don't see this issue having any effect on him, and even the link to the previous BJT transport minister is shaky. It's irrelevant talking about which politicians are corrupt unless they are actually caught out.

As far as the possible election with the banned 111, I don't really think they will make much difference. People will probably vote for PTP or not regardless of the individual that is standing in their electorate. Ofcourse, the PTP could lose out on votes if the current PTP candidates (that aren't sons/daughters of a banned poli) are pushed into other parties spreading the votes across other parties. Also, in some areas, there will be a negative reaction to the handling of the current disaster, and also their backing down on a number of their election promises.

It won't be even close to enough to get the Democrats elected, but could be enough so that PTP doesn't have a direct majority, possibly getting it close enough for the Democrats to form a coalition government, but not likely.

Personally, I don't think they will call an election when the banned TRT politicians are available. They have a good majority now, and have a lot of things to push through to make sure they're well placed in 4 years time. With the global economy as it is they're going to struggle to get much done.

[whybother]

Three cheers for Chalerm, now at last we have a government minister pursing these corrupt officials with vigour. Only the other day he was pictured at a table full of drugs and the apprehended miscreant. At this rate Thailand will be free of these corrupt politicians and criminals and he will have time to turn his attention to those turning up at the international airport in flip flops and vests.

Yes. Unofficial reports have it that he will be going after his criminal sons next.

[phiphidon]

Umm ... where did 'John' imply anything about the previous government?

Abhisit got ministers to resign when they were implicated in any corruption. The current government prefer to pardon politicians involved in corruption.

Erm, he said that last time an official was involved in a legal case involving corruption was Thaksin who was convicted in October 2008. surely the implication from that is that none of the politicians in charge since that point have taken the issue seriously since according to Abhisit there are ample situations where legal action should have been taken.

How many politicians have been charged of corruption in the last 10 years?

And the current government are trying to overturn the one case where someone was found guilty.

It appears that resigning from office was the favoured course of action during Abhisits time, not court cases;

Thai Khem Khaeng economic stimulus program scandal

Public Health Minister and Democrat MP Witthaya Kaewparadai, Deputy Minister from Bhumjaithai Party Manit Nop-amornbodi (who was in charge of the projects) resigned due to the scandal

Corruption in the purchase of 6.6 billion baht in fire-fighting equipment

Apirak Kosayodhin Democrat Party Governor of Bangkok . Apirak resigned from his office.

Poisoned canned fish products supplied to flood victims

Democrat Minister Vitoon Nambutr resigned.

[EyesWideOpen]

After 12 years of reading these stories, I actually deeply believe all Thai politicians are corrupt. First off, because it is easy. Second off, no one is really punished if on the wild chance you get caught. Third off, all these positions are bought, and must be paid back. This particular episode has to be upsetting the other pigs lined up at the trough, because now the spot light is turned upon them.

The scorpion and the frog

One day a scorpion is sitting at the edge of a stream, wanting to cross it. He sees a frog swimming by, and politely asks him for a ride across the stream. The frog says no way, you are going to sting me. Finally after much entreaty and sworn promises to not sting the frog, the frog reluctantly agrees to take the scorpion across the stream. Halfway across, the scorpion stings the frog.... The frog turns in astonishment, and asks why he did that, as they are now both going to die. The scorpion looks at the frog, and says it is in my nature........

Edited November 26, 2011 by EyesWideOpen

[mrtoad]

Three cheers for Chalerm, now at last we have a government minister pursing these corrupt officials with vigour. Only the other day he was pictured at a table full of drugs and the apprehended miscreant. At this rate Thailand will be free of these corrupt politicians and criminals and he will have time to turn his attention to those turning up at the international airport in flip flops and vests.

Yeah, good old Chalerm - The Mr Clean of Thai Politics.

[smedly]

it amazes me, why even bother to pursue this case when the current dept prime minister is currently doing all he can do to get and ex prime minister pardoned for corruption

This country reminds me of a lot of infants running around a kindergarden school playing silly games, will they ever realise that they have all grown up now and need to behave as such. If it wasn't so serious it would be comical

[EyesWideOpen]

Three cheers for Chalerm, now at last we have a government minister pursing these corrupt officials with vigour. Only the other day he was pictured at a table full of drugs and the apprehended miscreant. At this rate Thailand will be free of these corrupt politicians and criminals and he will have time to turn his attention to those turning up at the international airport in flip flops and vests.

Yeah, good old Chalerm - The Mr Clean of Thai Politics.

I whole heartedly agree. Chalerm running an anti - corruption campaign adds a wonderful farcical touch to this episode...... He should be serving jail time for aiding and abetting a murderer, instead of pounding on a podium in front of cameras shouting corruption must be stopped.

[billd766]

According to Chalerm, the government will ensure that officials involved in this corruption case will face legal action.

Ya right... when was the last time that that happened around these parts???

Oh ya... that guy who got convicted of corruption, jumped bail, fled the country, and whom now the current government, led by Chalerm, is trying to pardon on his corruption conviction...depending on what day of the week it is... Great anti-corruption crusaders these guys are...

Re the Transport Minister, if he was taking/receving kickbacks and bribes, he deserves to go to jail..no matter what political party he's affiliated with. But then again, if we were employ that standard across the board, would there be anyone left free to run the government?

PS - Note to self... don't forget to NOT leave my loose 17 million baht in pocket change laying around the house anymore.

I have a very safe place to keep your loose 17 million baht and you can believe that it will be safe with me as I am a retired engineer and have NEVER been a politician, Thai or anywhere else.

[geriatrickid]

Former PM Abhisit has still not made an official statement nor commented. What happened to the man that previously said he would take on this important subject?

The Democrats and their loyal supporters have previously claimed that they are opposed to corruption. And yet, not a word from the Democrats. as this thread demonstrates, none of the foreigners that get a thrill out of bashing the PTP and insulting the legally elected PM are willing to acknowledge the seriousness of the case and the implications.

This has effectively eroded the position that the Democrats had in respect to their claims of honesty and integrity and it will diffuse any legitimate effort to criticize the current administration on the issue.

In a quasi parliamentary democracy such as Thailand, it is an important part of the political process to have a vibrant opposition. It is in the best interests of the PTP administration to have an effective opposition that would keep the potential for abuse in check. The failure of the Democrats to address the matter undermines any chance of the party regaining office through a legitimate election.