Thai Police To Question Ex-Pm Over Protest Deaths

[whybother]

I am just a layman but isn't the fact that black uniformed AK47 armed in the crowd have something to do with it ?.

BUT the gov should have stopped the build up of stuff from the beginning, Police useless, don't know why/how they earn a living from the tax payer.

Abhisit is as guilty and corrupt as anyone and yet he tries to project the squeeky clean image. Sickening that many people believe him.

Is there ANY evidence to even suggest he "is as guilty and corrupt as anyone"?

[webfact]

Ex PM to Meet Investigators on Red-Shirt Killings

The city police chief invited former Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva for interrogation over his orders that allegedly led to the deaths of 16 red-shirt protestors during last year's political unrest.

Metropolitan Police Bureau Chief Police Lieutenant General Winai Thongsong has invited former Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva and ex Deputy Prime Minster Suthep Thuagsuban for interrogation about their endorsements of orders issued by the Center for the Resolution of the Emergency Situation during the last year's red-shirt protests.

Winai said upon investigation, there were enough eyewitnesses and evidence to ensure that the murders of 16 red-shirt protestors were linked with the operations of state security officials.

The city police chief said the investigation report is 90 percent complete, but it may not be sent to the Office of Attorney General before the end of this month.

However, he maintained the inquiry will be completed in the legal time limit so there is no need to seek the extension of deadline for investigators.

-- Tan Network 2011-11-29

[dominique355]

Regardless of what happened, when last year, it is for me unconscionable for a gov't (any gov't) to use lethal force against its own citizens.

I hardly expect many people here on TVF to agree with that, but ask yourself how many people would have died if the Army had NOT used lethal force?

And who gave orders to burn down the city?

... and then actually did?

... even other cities throughout the country?

I guess Tlansford would have ordered the police and the military to just watch the BBQ and have fun. Under no circumstances try to stop them. Right? After all, a huge fire is absolutely not dangerous for anybody. Not even with all the gasoline drums in the basement brought in before. It's just exercising their right to protest.

Give me a break!

[YoghurtLX]

I wonder when they start with the investigation about the illegal check points and searches by red shirts which they did on several streets.

It's not funny when some civilians stop your car, search it and question you while and pointing a gun in your direction. It's street mob out of line and there was nothing done.

Same with the M79 attacks. Not really anything done.

Of course, police only likes to investigate and act if it's useful for the red shirts, but really needs to be forced to act if that could work out in the interest of others.

There where clearly civilians out with guns and rifles, but what was done from the police ? Nothing.

[backtonormal]

Is it any surprise that there is now an investigation, since the appointment of the new national police chief who is related to Thaksin?

No, not a surprise.

But, that does not negate the need for a properly formed and constituted enquiry to establish who gave the orders to conduct operations the way they were conducted.

Somebody is accountable.

Somebody gave the instructions, orders and rules of engagement.

Maybe a group of people, it doesn't matter.

What does matter is that they should be known and held accountable.

An enquiry may well establish that it's perfectly Ok for the Government and military to use sharpshooters in crowd control and to target photographers, medics and passersby......

But it also may not.

It may also conclude that they were all shot by " dark forces" or itinerant Welsh rugby fans.

The point is the enquiry and how clear it is.

"engagement" is the key word. They were "engaging" with men that were shooting back at them.

proof of 'firing back'

[lannarebirth]

Regardless of what happened, when last year, it is for me unconscionable for a gov't (any gov't) to use lethal force against its own citizens.

I hardly expect many people here on TVF to agree with that, but ask yourself how many people would have died if the Army had NOT used lethal force?

Honestly, I think many more would have died. In the absence of the Army, vested money interests in Bangkok would have formed their own private militias IMO. Maybe with some of the same goons the Red Shirts bought. With the endless rhetoric to turn Bangkok into a "sea of fire" coming from the stage, it could have turned out much much worse. Sincerely.

[whybother]

"engagement" is the key word. They were "engaging" with men that were shooting back at them.

proof of 'firing back'

You're not serious, are you?

[lannarebirth]

I hardly expect many people here on TVF to agree with that, but ask yourself how many people would have died if the Army had NOT used lethal force?

A lot more. The first time near Khao San when they tried that dozens of soldiers were shot by the protestors and their commander killed, the army repulsed, and their trucks captured. The entire red strategy was to provoke a blood bath, hoping that it would force an immediate collapse of the government. If launching grenades at the sky train and lobbing bombs at crowds of counter protestors didn't do the trick they would have continued to kill larger numbers of people until the army was forced to act.

As it happens their immediate strategy of bloodbath forcing a collapse of the government didn't work. But a year of unrelenting lies and propaganda about what happened did help in the election

I find that to be a very very very unlikely result.

You might recall that the clash at KS road was the fall out of the army's attack - using lethal force. That reinforces my original point.

No, he's right and you're wrong. At the time the Red Shirts were flummoxed because they said no government had failed to fall when civilian blood was spilled. It was their strategy from the first.

You should really examine your comments with an eye towards this:

http://en.wikipedia....nfirmation_bias

Edited November 29, 2011 by lannarebirth

[backtonormal]

Regardless of what happened, when last year, it is for me unconscionable for a gov't (any gov't) to use lethal force against its own citizens.

I hardly expect many people here on TVF to agree with that, but ask yourself how many people would have died if the Army had NOT used lethal force?

I totally agree with you. The lids off the can of worms, the genie is out of the bottle but whatever the guilty ex gov members will not go to prison under an amnesty

[lannarebirth]

No, not a surprise.

But, that does not negate the need for a properly formed and constituted enquiry to establish who gave the orders to conduct operations the way they were conducted.

Somebody is accountable.

Somebody gave the instructions, orders and rules of engagement.

Maybe a group of people, it doesn't matter.

What does matter is that they should be known and held accountable.

An enquiry may well establish that it's perfectly Ok for the Government and military to use sharpshooters in crowd control and to target photographers, medics and passersby......

But it also may not.

It may also conclude that they were all shot by " dark forces" or itinerant Welsh rugby fans.

The point is the enquiry and how clear it is.

"engagement" is the key word. They were "engaging" with men that were shooting back at them.

Who the men in black? the Ninja Turtles? or do you mean people planted in the right areas? Get a grip son this is Thailand nothing ever dodgy goes on here

+1 : whenever there are protests, those opposing the protesters use "plants". Happens all the time. Happens in the US, too.

Nice try. The Red Shirts admitted they were working with these "Black Shirts" and there are many videos of them collaborating with each other. There is also some journalists that implanted themselves with the group who have written stories about it.

[jayboy]

Honestly, I think many more would have died. In the absence of the Army, vested money interests in Bangkok would have formed their own private militias IMO. Maybe with some of the same goons the Red Shirts bought. With the endless rhetoric to turn Bangkok into a "sea of fire" coming from the stage, it could have turned out much much worse. Sincerely.

Vested money interests already use the army's power to retain the status quo.What's new?

The more interesting question is whether this policy will be successful over time.

[backtonormal]

Regardless of what happened, when last year, it is for me unconscionable for a gov't (any gov't) to use lethal force against its own citizens.

I hardly expect many people here on TVF to agree with that, but ask yourself how many people would have died if the Army had NOT used lethal force?

The government of most countries use lethal force against criminals every day. Sometimes those associating with the criminals get caught in the cross fire and sometimes innocents do too.

You cannot be taken seriously. Shooting nurses and medics was not crossfire they were TARGETTED. There is an apartment for Abhisit in Dubai. Current owner vacating shortly

[gemini81]

I am just a layman but isn't the fact that black uniformed AK47 armed in the crowd have something to do with it ?.

BUT the gov should have stopped the build up of stuff from the beginning, Police useless, don't know why/how they earn a living from the tax payer.

I thought the same thing! An attempt by phuea thai to divert attention from the black shirts in the khwai daeng camp carrying illegal heavy arms.

With all of the cctv and footage around this stuff is no mystery, just those trying to wash their hands of responsibility.

Hope Abhisit counters this and the attempted civil war in bangkok that nearly got further out of control.

[lannarebirth]

Honestly, I think many more would have died. In the absence of the Army, vested money interests in Bangkok would have formed their own private militias IMO. Maybe with some of the same goons the Red Shirts bought. With the endless rhetoric to turn Bangkok into a "sea of fire" coming from the stage, it could have turned out much much worse. Sincerely.

Vested money interests already use the army's power to retain the status quo.What's new?

The more interesting question is whether this policy will be successful over time.

That's not what I said but you twist it to ask yourself a question that you don't find interesting?

[backtonormal]

It's good the police asked k. Abhisit and k. Suthep to drop by to answers a few questions. No doubt the two gentlemen will comply. I assume the statements of some other worthy gentlemen, like k. Jatuporn, k. Nattawut, Dr. weng, et at have been taken already?

In this case, which will see a (Pheu Thai) MP travel all the way to The Hague, the Netherlands to inquire about the case filed with the ICC on the 31st of January this year, anyone involved should, will and must tell their side of the story. Two foreign reporters killed, 91 death in total! We, the people, democracy minded, etc., etc., we have a right to know.

BTW those this include those killed by grenade lobbing fanatics, grenades which just by pure chance (of course) seemed to only targeted non-red-shirts?

Totally agree. Well done to this Pheu Thai MP who wants to get the truth. I am mostly keen on the findings of the deaths of the 13 soldiers who were murdered by armed insurgents, and for the ICC to find who was responsible for funding, leading and enciting this act of war against Thailand. Once the ICC rule on this then it will be very easy for the Thai government to be able to file the appropriate charges against those responsible.

Please send link to confirm 13 soldiers were killed at anytime during last years unrest

[phiphidon]

Well the suprise is that an investigation was first put in place by the Abhisit administration which in the spirit of reconciliation first came up with a conclusion on who was responsible for the deaths of the first 13 people to be investigated only for it to be hastily denied after a visit by senior member of the armed forces (who were implicated in the deaths). This then brought forth laughable, if it wasn't so tragic, responses from the Abhisit cabinet and security forces about red shirts shooting each other, walking into bullets, fantasies of 500 men in black running round shooting everybody and anybody (not one of whom that has been caught) and that no security forces were responsible for any deaths whatsoever despite the evidence, before the investigation itself become a tug of war between the DSI and the police.

There is no suprise in the fact that the investigation didn't get anywhere under the Abhisit administration.

Sorry, had to snip the video waza - otherwise couldn't reply due to matching quotes/unquotes

Interesting - the infamous biased dan Rivers reporting there, this time deemed OK to use as evidence. One Man in black with pistol, one guy in camo with a rifle and another guy does not make 500 men in black shooting everybody and anybody. I do not and never have, to the best of my recollection deny that there were armed people mixing with the Red Shirts but certainly not to the extent the Government were alleging at the time to support the response of the security forces. That is also the first time that I have seen Abhisit publicly admit that the vast majority of Red Shirts were peaceful. Maybe a few posters on here will modify their views now?

[tragickingdom]

Suthep, Prayuth and Abhisit should be handed over to the ICC.

[gemini81]

tlansford just can't be taken seriously. Posting selective BS English news posts scattered here and there speak nothing compared to the volume spoken by the videos in which we see. There civilians can no longer be restrained without lethal force. This man is nothing but a troller trying to grind people's gears.

[KKK]

Present government wants to give Thaksin a pardon/amnesty as part of a reconciliation process but get its police to question previous goverments leader over protest deaths. Seems like it's reconciliation for one but not the other......

If they manage to make any charges stick to Abhisit then there maybe a "we'll pardon yours if you pardon ours" deal.....

[sparebox2]

I am just a layman but isn't the fact that black uniformed AK47 armed in the crowd have something to do with it ?.

BUT the gov should have stopped the build up of stuff from the beginning, Police useless, don't know why/how they earn a living from the tax payer.

I thought the same thing! An attempt by phuea thai to divert attention from the black shirts in the khwai daeng camp carrying illegal heavy arms.

With all of the cctv and footage around this stuff is no mystery, just those trying to wash their hands of responsibility.

Hope Abhisit counters this and the attempted civil war in bangkok that nearly got further out of control.

" khwai daeng camp". Due you mean "Red Bull Camp" in English?

[KKK]

Suthep, Prayuth and Abhisit should be handed over to the ICC.

And Thaksin should be brought home and sent to prison

It is all ridiculous tit for tat...when are they going to stop squabbling and get on with running the country.......I've seen kindergarten kids behave better

[backtonormal]

What we should ask is 'Why would so many people face down rifles with fire crackers' what would make people face possible death. When you have had 3 successives governments, who you voted for removed by the army, the judiciary and the invisible hand threatening PT coalition mps with 'an offer they could not refuse' then we are at the route of the problem.

I read so much tosh from supposed Dem supporters on here it makes you cringe, they can defend the indefensible. Systematic beating down on the masses by the few brought us to this flashpoint, forget your Thaksins and Abhisits, people should look beyond these people and look to the real reasons why Thailand is at this point in its history.

[drdoom6996]

I am just a layman but isn't the fact that black uniformed AK47 armed in the crowd have something to do with it ?.

BUT the gov should have stopped the build up of stuff from the beginning, Police useless, don't know why/how they earn a living from the tax payer.

In any other place the mob would have been broken up in 12 hours.

[backtonormal]

I am just a layman but isn't the fact that black uniformed AK47 armed in the crowd have something to do with it ?.

BUT the gov should have stopped the build up of stuff from the beginning, Police useless, don't know why/how they earn a living from the tax payer.

In any other place the mob would have been broken up in 12 hours.

Why not do what they do in other military controlled countries --- Egypt, Syria, Libya

[lannarebirth]

I am just a layman but isn't the fact that black uniformed AK47 armed in the crowd have something to do with it ?.

BUT the gov should have stopped the build up of stuff from the beginning, Police useless, don't know why/how they earn a living from the tax payer.

In any other place the mob would have been broken up in 12 hours.

That is the sad truth. If Abhisit is guilty of anything it is that his misjudgement in allowing this protest to continue and grow only fed the most violent and treacherous inclinations of the movements leaders and sponsors.

[whybother]

Regardless of what happened, when last year, it is for me unconscionable for a gov't (any gov't) to use lethal force against its own citizens.

I hardly expect many people here on TVF to agree with that, but ask yourself how many people would have died if the Army had NOT used lethal force?

The government of most countries use lethal force against criminals every day. Sometimes those associating with the criminals get caught in the cross fire and sometimes innocents do too.

You cannot be taken seriously. Shooting nurses and medics was not crossfire they were TARGETTED. There is an apartment for Abhisit in Dubai. Current owner vacating shortly

There were reports of shooting from both sides that day. I doubt very much that nurses and medics were targeted by the army. What would have been the benefit of that?

[anterian]

Military governments always use lethal force against their civilian opposition, Pinochet did in Argentina, Sadaam in Iraq, Gaddafi in Libya and currently Assad in Syria.

So the killings in Bangkok simply demonstrated that the Abhisit government was a military proxy, which we knew anyway.

[hanuman1]

I am just a layman but isn't the fact that black uniformed AK47 armed in the crowd have something to do with it ?.

BUT the gov should have stopped the build up of stuff from the beginning, Police useless, don't know why/how they earn a living from the tax payer.

In any other place the mob would have been broken up in 12 hours.

That is the sad truth. If Abhisit is guilty of anything it is that his misjudgement in allowing this protest to continue and grow only fed the most violent and treacherous inclinations of the movements leaders and sponsors.

Even if Abhisit told the army to attack earlier, it wouldn't have saved lives, in my opinion.

Form exploding tear gas to untrained, unwilling security forces. Successive Thai governments have shown that they simply don't have the appropriate resources to effectively control a crowd without causing death.

[Insight]

Found it interesting when speaking to my brother the other day how he referred to the lovely, innocent red shirt protesters as "rioters" when asking if Bangkok was now safe to visit. Given he only has a rudimentary understanding of what's happening in Thailand, it seems as if Amsterdam needs to raise his PR game a few notches.

That besides, if the gameplan here is to lay some (baseless) charges against Abhisit for his role in clearing out a militant force conducting an armed siege of the Bangkok downtown business district - a task most military forces would be drafted into a few days after the siege was underway - in the hope that an amnesty can then be used to drop charges against both him and Thaksin, I personally highly doubt Abhisit would accept such an amnesty.

Given the blatantly trumped-up nature of whatever charges that will be thrown against him, it would give Abhisit the opportunity to play a *real* Nelson Mandela/Aung San Suu Kyi role, further highlighting the flaws of the square headed coward that fled to Dubai and sponsored a war within his own country.

The size of the backfire should Chalerm attempt to proceed with this trumped-up-charge followed by amnesty will dwarf the botched pardon attempt. Mark my words.

[backtonormal]

Suthep, Prayuth and Abhisit should be handed over to the ICC.

Not Prayuth he was following orders. Now if a previous coalition mp, of the Abhisit regime claims he was made an offer he could not refuse then we must presume somebody cobbled together the previous administration. If we agree with that then its only a short step to correctly assuming that somebody, at this point not proven, gave orders to Abhisit in dealing with the unrest. So replace Prayuth with ??????