Expats With Yellow Book To Prove Residency

[Soutpeel]

Why... for a man who professes to spend 700-800,000 baht a year in Thailand,... want to use the free system???

Why not? Why shouldn't I get something back from the government for what I spend here, compared to the average Thai? The real reason as to why I use the "free system" is because it was the hospital staff that told me to get it as other farang had it.

If a Thai was to go to the UK I'm sure he too wouldn't pay for his medical costs.

Do you pay income tax in Thailand ?.....if the answer is no...then why should be be entitled to free medical treatment ?, your not contributing...please dont start going on that you you pay VAT....

[Sheryl]

yellow book is simply proof of where you live

Sheryl a 'Yellow Book' isn't simply proof of where you live. It's the 13 digit number that's in the 'Yellow Book' that is important part. Without the 13 digit number you're stumped to getting a 'Thai medical card'.

Even with it, you are not legally eligible, if you are referring to the "gold card". Some hospitals are apparently unaware of this and have issued them, most will not, and even those that do, will have the mistake discovered if/when the patient needs to be referred to a higher level of care.

If you do not believe me, just call the NHSO and ask them. Non-Thia citizens are not eligible. The only area where I am unsure is if those holding Permanent residency are.

Social Security system is different, foreigners have just as much eligibility as Thais, provided they meet the criteria and pay into the system. Many people have gotten the SS card without holding a yellow tabian baan. Your passport number serves as identification and, if proof of place of residence is needed, a letter from either Immigration or your Embassy will suffice in lieu of a tabian baan. (Many Thai beaurocrats don't know this, though).

[sinbin]

Why... for a man who professes to spend 700-800,000 baht a year in Thailand,... want to use the free system???

Why not? Why shouldn't I get something back from the government for what I spend here, compared to the average Thai? The real reason as to why I use the "free system" is because it was the hospital staff that told me to get it as other farang had it.

If a Thai was to go to the UK I'm sure he too wouldn't pay for his medical costs.

Do you pay income tax in Thailand ?.....if the answer is no...then why should be be entitled to free medical treatment ..

The majority of 60+ million Thais also dont pay income tax. Your point is? I never asked for free treatment. It was recommended by my local hospital to apply. I did. I got. I've done nothing illegal as far as I'm aware.

[Firefan]

The confusion on this subject is understandable. There is the 30 Baht(now free) gold card and then the social security health care plan that one can keep after having worked 12 months - against continuing paying for it.

One thing I found often cause the misunderstanding is that foreigners married to a Thai government worker (teacher, medical, police whatever) are covered under the government employee health insurance where spouses and children are included. - So that is a THIRD option from the 2 above. Often the foreigner is unaware as to WHY he/she got the card as all docs in Thai - so they THINK they got the 30Baht/free/gold card - while in reality under the government employee insurance.

Also noticed in this thread, that some posters imply that having "registered" with a hospital must mean they have free health care - most of those cards are just to simplify paper work at future visits by having your details/patient number readily available - so better check the small print before believing that they are covered.

So any single( or not married to government worker) not working (or still under the SS health plan after having worked) foreigner out there receiving free health care here? How did you obtain the cover?

Cheers!

[citizen33]

Sherrill is once again right regarding the discussion about eligibility for the UCS. The only thing I can add is that unfortunately even permanent residents are not covered by the UCS - only Thai citizens.

Firefan also makes sensible points that may help explain the confusion that seems to affect many westerners who think they have healthcare coverage that may prove not to be there in a time of real need.

P.S. Firefan's request for examples could throw up some very interesting stories. One especially pertinent question is whether anybody who thinks they are covered by the UCS has been referred on for treatment at a provincial or tertiary care hospital and still received free treatment.

Edited May 17, 2013 by citizen33

[Soutpeel]

Why... for a man who professes to spend 700-800,000 baht a year in Thailand,... want to use the free system???

Why not? Why shouldn't I get something back from the government for what I spend here, compared to the average Thai? The real reason as to why I use the "free system" is because it was the hospital staff that told me to get it as other farang had it.

If a Thai was to go to the UK I'm sure he too wouldn't pay for his medical costs.

Do you pay income tax in Thailand ?.....if the answer is no...then why should be be entitled to free medical treatment ..

The majority of 60+ million Thais also dont pay income tax. Your point is? I never asked for free treatment. It was recommended by my local hospital to apply. I did. I got. I've done nothing illegal as far as I'm aware.

Oh this old chestnut...Thai's dont pay... but your not Thai..its not your country, you sound like the free loaders in the UK want something for nothing...

[Sheryl]

Can the nascent flamefest guys.

Sherrill is once again right regarding the discussion about eligibility for the UCS. The only thing I can add is that unfortunately even permanent residents are not covered by the UCS - only Thai citizens.

Firefan also makes sensible points that may help explain the confusion that seems to affect many westerners who think they have healthcare coverage that may prove not to be there in a time of real need.

P.S. Firefan's request for examples could throw up some very interesting stories. One especially pertinent question is whether anybody who thinks they are covered by the UCS has been referred on for treatment at a provincial or tertiary care hospital and still received free treatment.

Thanks for the clarification re Permanent Residents, I had wondered about that,

Every case I have heard of incvolving a farang with UC card being transferred to terisry care level ended with the hospital which issued the card being informed of their mistake and the expat having to pay.

[kriswillems]

This document confused me. It's from a Thai government website and it says foreigners married to a Thai can get free healthcare.

audit.obec.go.th/quest/Health.doc

But I guess it's talking about foreigners married to a government worker?

This document says the same (in 2.2)

www.dld.go.th/finance/train.../ques_health_educat.doc‎

A foreigner married to a THai can get the cost for medical care back if he goes to a local hospital in Thailand.

I can not find any reference to government workers.

Again a link. This time it's talking explicitly about government workers:

http://www.library.msu.ac.th/meechaihome/index.php?sect=readqa.php&qid=19459

Edited May 18, 2013 by kriswillems

[bunnaag]

This document confused me. It's from a Thai government website and it says foreigners married to a Thai can get free healthcare.

audit.obec.go.th/quest/Health.doc

But I guess it's talking about foreigners married to a government worker.

you are guessing right.A friend of mine is married to a government employee he gets free health care under her name.

[kriswillems]

I think someday, as Thailand gets richer and more developed, there will be an option to pay more for social security but also include husband/wife and children.

Maybe this option already exist and I am not aware of it.

[thetefldon]

I get free health care. My wife is a retired teacher. I believe it is under Civil Service Scheme. I am registered at the local hospital where no charges are made.

If treated where not registered I pay and the wife claims it back.

I do have a yellow Tabien Baan but this has nothing to do with receiving free treatment. Useful in other ways though.

[Mario2008]

The spouse, under age children and parents of a civil servant are all covered under the healthcare scheme for government workers.

Normally at governments hospitals, but in case of an emergency you can visit the nearest hospital even if it is a private one. If you register with a government hospital for this scheme you can get the care without having to pay it first, if you are not registered you pay it first and get it back later through the employer of your spouse.

I'm registered at several government hospitals, including in other province. The local one, the bigger provincial one and a very big university/government hospital.

[thetefldon]

Thanks for info regarding other hospitals. I take it you need to visit and register like I did at my local hospital?

[Firefan]

Kris, Bunaag, Thetefl thanks for your replies which all fitted with the public servant health insurance that covers (also foreign) spouses and children too - even if the public servant is retired. This is not the 30B/free/gold card a we all know.

Any foreigner out there having free health insurance NOT fitting with the above and NOT actually having the social security health insurance (from working currently or before)?

If so; by method of exclusion, that must be the 30B/free/gold card.

how did you get your cover?

Cheers!

[sinbin]

Kris, Bunaag, Thetefl thanks for your replies which all fitted with the public servant health insurance that covers (also foreign) spouses and children too - even if the public servant is retired. This is not the 30B/free/gold card a we all know.

Any foreigner out there having free health insurance NOT fitting with the above and NOT actually having the social security health insurance (from working currently or before)?

If so; by method of exclusion, that must be the 30B/free/gold card.

how did you get your cover?

Cheers!

Please read previous post for that information.

[sinbin]

For the last time. I'm not married to a government worker. I and other farangs applied for the Thai medical card soley by presenting my/their Yellow Book at their hospitals. One month later the card is issued. Obviously that one month is for the application to go through the system to be approved? I'm told, I don't know about others, that I have to reapply every birthday for a new card. To date I haven't been refused and neither has any farang that I know of been refused. I'm not looking to get something for nothing but if it's offered, as in my case, then why not?

but your not Thai..its not your country

Another chestnut from Southpeal.

[sinbin]

My 3 children carry British passports, as well as Thai. Should they too be denied free medical treatment based on not being 100% Thai?

[sinbin]

Sorry I forgot to mention that on my hospital documents I'm registered as 'Thai Male'.

[Sheryl]

Yes well that would explain how it got through the system. Most hospitals will not agree to lie for you in that respect, though.

As for your children, if they are Thai citizens then regardless of dual nationality, they qualify.

And please let's avoid philosophical debates about what "should" be. As far as this thread and this forum is concerned, we deal only with what factually is, not with opinions. If you want that, take it elsewhere.

What is, is that the UCS system in Thailand (not to be confused with the SS system, which also provides health care cover) is by law/policy limited to Thai nationals. Apparently some farang in some locations have succeeded in getting registered under it either through the hospital not knowing the porcedure (most likely to occur in a place without too many farang) or, as in the last case, choosing to list you as a Thai national and overlook the fact that you are not. If you ever get referred to a tertiary level of care, though, whiel the card will porobably still go through given that it lists you as thai, it is possible that the mistake will be noted and coevrage revoked.

[citizen33]

The interesting thing to me with these mistakes is what will happen with computerisation of records. At present the gold cards are being phased out and replaced by the new multi-purpose smart ID cards, which are linked to various databases. As I understand things, these contain information from the Ministry of the Interior's citizen registration database and the databases of the NHSO, the SSO and the CGD (civil service). There is also provision on the chip to record information on address, date of birth, religion, blood type, allergies and chronic medical conditions, biometric images (fingerprints,face and iris), parents’ names, marital status, driving license details, taxation data, and details of those officially registered as poor. When a local government office issues a yellow book and gives an occupant a 13-digit number, the question is how far this over-rides other information on the relevant data bases. Also how does a 13 digit number for a westerner get changed to a 13 digit number for a Thai? I do not believe that you become a Thai citizen on the Ministry of the Interior's system on the basis of a mistake at a local office or CUP. There are arrangements for data validation and cross checking, but I haven't so far been able to get any sense from my contacts about exactly how this works.I can tell you though that there is no official support for 'grandfathering' of past mistakes or anything like that.

Edited May 19, 2013 by citizen33

[Sophon]

<snipped>

To date I haven't been refused and neither has any farang that I know of been refused. I'm not looking to get something for nothing but if it's offered, as in my case, then why not?

<snipped>

A good reason why not, is because your card was issued against the rules, and as Sheryl have pointed out, if some day you should need expensive medical care they may notice the error and charge you for the treatment. Not only would you then have to pay the bill yourself, but at that point it might also be too late for you to sign up for health care insurance.

Sophon

[sinbin]

<snipped>

To date I haven't been refused and neither has any farang that I know of been refused. I'm not looking to get something for nothing but if it's offered, as in my case, then why not?

<snipped>

A good reason why not, is because your card was issued against the rules, and as Sheryl have pointed out, if some day you should need expensive medical care they may notice the error and charge you for the treatment. Not only would you then have to pay the bill yourself, but at that point it might also be too late for you to sign up for health care insurance.

Sophon

Nobody has ever shown me the rules. My Thai wife has never seen the rules. The hospital staff who suggested I obtain the Thai medical card have never seen the rules. The only people I know that seemingly know the rules are on Thai Visa and possibly the Thais that issued the cards. Why is it that farangs on here know more than the Thais who issued the cards? With regards to using my card for "expensive medical care". Well that just won't happen for me. The use of my Thai medical card is restricted to my local hospital. It does not carry out surgical procedures, other than things like stitching up wounds etc. They have an x-ray facility and dental treatment, but that's as far as my benefits go. Mind you I have read on this forum where farangs are registered at bigger hospitals and get the full package. Good for them if they can do.

[sinbin]

Sorry I forgot to mention that on my hospital documents I'm registered as 'Thai Male'.

Yes well that would explain how it got through the system. Most hospitals will not agree to lie for you in that respect, though.

I resent that remark Sheryl. I have never asked anyone to lie for me. They had no reason to lie for me. I paid no tea money for my medical card. I obtained it by just submitting my Yellow Book. I had/have no inside contacts. I have nothing in status that would sway the hospital to lie for me. My hospital did not agree to lie for me and you should retract that claim. You are assuming my hospital is covering for me and it is a completely wrong to assume that. Why should they lie for me?

[BAYBOY]

Sinbin,

since you have a medical card for use at your local hospital and your doctor there says you need a heart by pass, but his hospital can't do bypasses. he will then refer you to another Govt. hospital that can do it for you. Correct?

Would you then tell him ' Oh by the way I am a white European male , Not a Thai male as the records show in the system." and ' Will you still do my bypass using my current medical card?"

ANSWER?

BAYBOY

[Sophon]

<snipped>

To date I haven't been refused and neither has any farang that I know of been refused. I'm not looking to get something for nothing but if it's offered, as in my case, then why not?

<snipped>

A good reason why not, is because your card was issued against the rules, and as Sheryl have pointed out, if some day you should need expensive medical care they may notice the error and charge you for the treatment. Not only would you then have to pay the bill yourself, but at that point it might also be too late for you to sign up for health care insurance.

Sophon

Nobody has ever shown me the rules. My Thai wife has never seen the rules. The hospital staff who suggested I obtain the Thai medical card have never seen the rules. The only people I know that seemingly know the rules are on Thai Visa and possibly the Thais that issued the cards. Why is it that farangs on here know more than the Thais who issued the cards? With regards to using my card for "expensive medical care". Well that just won't happen for me. The use of my Thai medical card is restricted to my local hospital. It does not carry out surgical procedures, other than things like stitching up wounds etc. They have an x-ray facility and dental treatment, but that's as far as my benefits go. Mind you I have read on this forum where farangs are registered at bigger hospitals and get the full package. Good for them if they can do.

There are plenty of people here on ThaiVisa who have a yellow tabien bahn, but only a few have been able to get the gold card. What does that tell you about whether being registered in a yellow tabien bahn entitle you to free medical treatment?

I have a yellow tabien bahn myself, and when my girlfriend (Thai) registered for treatment at the local hospital in Bangkok, we enquired about my eligibility as well. The answer was a clear and unequivocal NO, the system is only for Thai people and being registered in a tabien bahn makes no difference. It seems that the few people who have reported being able to be registered in the system are all from smaller towns, where they may not be as used to dealing with foreigners.

Sophon

[Sheryl]

<snipped>

To date I haven't been refused and neither has any farang that I know of been refused. I'm not looking to get something for nothing but if it's offered, as in my case, then why not?

<snipped>

A good reason why not, is because your card was issued against the rules, and as Sheryl have pointed out, if some day you should need expensive medical care they may notice the error and charge you for the treatment. Not only would you then have to pay the bill yourself, but at that point it might also be too late for you to sign up for health care insurance.

Sophon

Nobody has ever shown me the rules. My Thai wife has never seen the rules. The hospital staff who suggested I obtain the Thai medical card have never seen the rules. The only people I know that seemingly know the rules are on Thai Visa and possibly the Thais that issued the cards. Why is it that farangs on here know more than the Thais who issued the cards? With regards to using my card for "expensive medical care". Well that just won't happen for me. The use of my Thai medical card is restricted to my local hospital. It does not carry out surgical procedures, other than things like stitching up wounds etc. They have an x-ray facility and dental treatment, but that's as far as my benefits go. Mind you I have read on this forum where farangs are registered at bigger hospitals and get the full package. Good for them if they can do.

The "Thais who issue the cards" are the National Health Security Office (NHSO). Website http://www.nhso.go.th/eng/Site/Default.aspx Call center 1330 (Thai speaking). Tel 02-141-4000. Since you do not believe me, I suggest you call and ask them.

[Sheryl]

Sorry I forgot to mention that on my hospital documents I'm registered as 'Thai Male'.

>Yes well that would explain how it got through the system. Most hospitals will not agree to lie for you in that respect, though.

I resent that remark Sheryl. I have never asked anyone to lie for me. They had no reason to lie for me. I paid no tea money for my medical card. I obtained it by just submitting my Yellow Book. I had/have no inside contacts. I have nothing in status that would sway the hospital to lie for me. My hospital did not agree to lie for me and you should retract that claim. You are assuming my hospital is covering for me and it is a completely wrong to assume that. Why should they lie for me?

Never said you asked them to lie much less bribed them to do so. However, they did lie. They listed you as Thai when they obviously knew you were not.

As to why...perhaps trying to be nice? Who knows.

[Firefan]

Sinbin; do not take this analysis of how yellow book can/can not equal free health care too personal mate!

Sheryl obviously did not state that YOU asked anybody to lie, and I am sorry to keep asking the same question over and over, but as we found out from my last question it turned out that most having received "free" health care on this thread are actually under the government SS health care via their spouse.

That still leaves some cases (as mentioned seems mostly in smaller/less foreigner packed cities) where people somehow got the 30B/free/gold card/cover anyway. We now know how yours slipped through - and congrats with that!

I doubt I will succeed going up to Chula hospital with just yellow book and PP and get that card! (I have private insurance anyway btw, but would have been glad to have the free one as a back up).

Cheers!

[ozzydom]

My yellow book was handed to me free of charge.

Yes they are free of charge, but you have to get your passport translated and authenticated by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Bangkok. This is a requirement to obtaining the 'Yellow book''. That's the expensive part. If not done by the book, I've know of 2,000 Baht being passed under the table. Unfortunately they wouldn't go down that route where I live.

Not in Ubon. They have a form to transfer info from your passport. Done in 20 minutes and cost nothing.

Same same,Sakhon Nakhong

[citizen33]

Firefan's post above meant to say that spouses can gain coverage through the civil servant medical benefits scheme (the SSS does not cover spouses at present).

Sinbin says he has never seen the rules. I cannot show him the internal guidance produced by the NHSO but most of the information is there on the website albeit in Thai. Perhaps his wife can translate for him.

http://www.nhso.go.th/FrontEnd/page-forpeople_nhso.aspx#a

Just to help with the first bit of this page (and with apologies to mods if I am breaking forum rules with the Thai):

ใครคือผู้มีสิทธิ หลักประกันสุขภาพ

ตามพระราชบัญญัติหลักประกันสุขภาพแห่งชาติ พ.ศ.2545 มาตรา 5 กำหนดให้ บุคคลทุกคนมีสิทธิได้รับบริการสาธารณสุข ที่มีมาตรฐาน และมีประสิทธิภาพตามที่กำหนด ในพระราชบัญญัติ ซึ่งบุคคลในที่นี้ หมายถึง บุคคลที่มีสัญชาติไทย

Rough translation:

Who has the right to health insurance?

The National Health Security Act 2545, Section 5, provides that all persons are entitled to standard and efficient health services as set out in the Act. This means persons who are nationals of Thailand.

The interesting thing about Sinbin's account is that he says he has to renew every year. It would be interesting to know.

1. What is the date (year) of his most recent gold card?

2. What is the first digit of the 13 digit number against his name on the tabien baan?

3. Does the same number appear on his gold card?

The other point is that there is only the one standard benefits package (although your entitlement away from the home area is restricted to emergency care unless special arrangements for migrant workers obtain, as in Pattaya). So I am at a loss to explain how Sinbin gets routine treatments only under the UCS.

Edited May 20, 2013 by citizen33