Secure Your Own Nuts!

[BigBikeBKK]

ok, clever people, please tell me of a manufactur who uses loctite on an orignal build, and who uses it on an engine re-build? if for eg they use it on big end bolts & nuts, then the nuts are suspect in the first place, as for using it on a wheel axle, that is stupid, better to use coppa-slip, so the axle doesnt seize in the bearing/hub assembly,

1996 i bought a Kawasaki ZZR1100, had it modified with zxr 750 carb tops, this gave it many extra HPs , then a ex kawasaki race man dyno jetted it and tuned the engine, it made 137bhp on the dyno with no ram-air effect, the ram air would make another 10 bhp, and depending on use, a rear tyre would last between 2000 and 4000 miles, and some heavy 2 up with panniers touring in Europe, i live in Thailand now, and have been here 5 years, my son has my Kawasaki in UK its done 67000miles, same rear axle and nut, no loctite,

In all my years in the commercial auto trade as an engineer, only Cummins suggested using theadlock on bolts, and that was on a torque converter to a flex plate,

So come on, post the links where a modern bike manufacture uses threadlock,

Are you being deliberately obtuse? Who in the world uses thread lock on an axle bolt???

I can't think of a single manufacturer that DOESN'T use locking agents in modern vehicles.

Flip through any car or bike shop manual and you'll see that modern cars and bikes DO indeed have bolts that are thread locked at the time of manufacture.

Need an easy example?

Brake disc mounting bolts.

Next!

Edited December 11, 2011 by BigBikeBKK

[seedy]

Newer engines - last 10 years or so - use torque-to-yield head bolts. These are set with a torque wrench, then a specified extra amount, typically 90 degrees, is applied. These bolts are made to be used once only.

Come with loctite applied to the threads.

For any fastener that is subject to vibration - or that you do not want to come loose - loctite is good insurance. Flywheel / flex plate mounting bolts come to mind, as brake caliper bolts as mentioned above.

Beware of Nylocks - most are at most grade 2, so using with a grade 8 bolt will give you a false sense of security. The bolt will not fail, but the nut will. Grade 8 locking nuts are available - Stover is one brand.

[BigBikeBKK]

Newer engines - last 10 years or so - use torque-to-yield head bolts. These are set with a torque wrench, then a specified extra amount, typically 90 degrees, is applied. These bolts are made to be used once only.

Come with loctite applied to the threads.

For any fastener that is subject to vibration - or that you do not want to come loose - loctite is good insurance. Flywheel / flex plate mounting bolts come to mind, as brake caliper bolts as mentioned above.

Beware of Nylocks - most are at most grade 2, so using with a grade 8 bolt will give you a false sense of security. The bolt will not fail, but the nut will. Grade 8 locking nuts are available - Stover is one brand.

You'd think that a guys who says "In all my years in the commercial auto trade as an engineer" would know better, wouldn't you???

[karlos]

Karlos, i know what you are getting at, but with my zzr i knew when tight was tight enough, without a tourque wrench, and the same with big truck wheels, 10 studs, sometimes taper, most times spigot type, are the owners gonna fit new nuts every time the wheel is removed, i dont think so, from memory its 500ft lbs for a single wheel and 550ft lbs for a double, thats 18 ton upwards,

The nut holding the rear wheel of my Kwacker was not any kind of lock,, and do any haulage firms in the world use loctite when re-fitting wheels ect, i dont think so, its an after market thing, not on an original new build, so im still waiting for links where they use loctite in a new build!!

Yep 500 - 550 was the range i was using on my 4 foot long sykes pickavant torque wrench, then fitting wheel nut indicators. Even when torqued up correctly wheel nuts have been known to come loose, hence the need for these wheel nut indicators to be fitted for roadside inspections and of course for the driver to take note of too

You're right about the owners not fitting new wheel nuts every time the wheel is removed and there really is no need to providing they are torqued up correctly, as the nuts in use are manufactured to be reusable.

Wouldn't a nylock nut also be considered to be using the same method as thread lock, effectively gumming up the threads and providing resistance to stop the nut working loose?

If yes then plenty of manufactures use nylock nuts, indicating that either new nylock bolts would be required or the application of thread lock should new nuts not be available when reassembling.

I'm trying to think back to when i was a Commercial Fitter of where i saw nylock nuts used the most..... I'd probably say i saw plenty of nylock nuts used on prop-shafts and their flanges, all the trucks i used to work on were at least 4 years old so i can't say if they came out the factory like that but on such a highly stressed component and considering the huge rotational forces and speeds, it would make sense to have a fail safe on that component i guess.

Karl

Edited December 11, 2011 by karlos

[karlos]

Sorry i had to add a few more examples, and i know the last photo is just a sponsor but i'm sure that particular JGTC team used it on a few components when building the car.

[Lickey]

ok, clever people, please tell me of a manufactur who uses loctite on an orignal build, and who uses it on an engine re-build? if for eg they use it on big end bolts & nuts, then the nuts are suspect in the first place, as for using it on a wheel axle, that is stupid, better to use coppa-slip, so the axle doesnt seize in the bearing/hub assembly,

1996 i bought a Kawasaki ZZR1100, had it modified with zxr 750 carb tops, this gave it many extra HPs , then a ex kawasaki race man dyno jetted it and tuned the engine, it made 137bhp on the dyno with no ram-air effect, the ram air would make another 10 bhp, and depending on use, a rear tyre would last between 2000 and 4000 miles, and some heavy 2 up with panniers touring in Europe, i live in Thailand now, and have been here 5 years, my son has my Kawasaki in UK its done 67000miles, same rear axle and nut, no loctite,

In all my years in the commercial auto trade as an engineer, only Cummins suggested using theadlock on bolts, and that was on a torque converter to a flex plate,

So come on, post the links where a modern bike manufacture uses threadlock,

Are you being deliberately obtuse? Who in the world uses thread lock on an axle bolt???

I can't think of a single manufacturer that DOESN'T use locking agents in modern vehicles.

Flip through any car or bike shop manual and you'll see that modern cars and bikes DO indeed have bolts that are thread locked at the time of manufacture.

Need an easy example?

Brake disc mounting bolts.

Next!

Again you show after market stuff, when i refit a bike caliper, its with Copaslip on the bolts, the reaction with steel and alloy is enough of a locking device in its self, so no need for any locking glue, if you are not wise enough to realise that, then dont post crap!! and again, show me where a new vehicle maker uses theadlock, not aftermarket,,,,

[Lickey]

Karlos, i know what you are getting at, but with my zzr i knew when tight was tight enough, without a tourque wrench, and the same with big truck wheels, 10 studs, sometimes taper, most times spigot type, are the owners gonna fit new nuts every time the wheel is removed, i dont think so, from memory its 500ft lbs for a single wheel and 550ft lbs for a double, thats 18 ton upwards,

The nut holding the rear wheel of my Kwacker was not any kind of lock,, and do any haulage firms in the world use loctite when re-fitting wheels ect, i dont think so, its an after market thing, not on an original new build, so im still waiting for links where they use loctite in a new build!!

Yep 500 - 550 was the range i was using on my 4 foot long sykes pickavant torque wrench, then fitting wheel nut indicators. Even when torqued up correctly wheel nuts have been known to come loose, hence the need for these wheel nut indicators to be fitted for roadside inspections and of course for the driver to take note of too

You're right about the owners not fitting new wheel nuts every time the wheel is removed and there really is no need to providing they are torqued up correctly, as the nuts in use are manufactured to be reusable.

Wouldn't a nylock nut also be considered to be using the same method as thread lock, effectively gumming up the threads and providing resistance to stop the nut working loose?

If yes then plenty of manufactures use nylock nuts, indicating that either new nylock bolts would be required or the application of thread lock should new nuts not be available when reassembling.

I'm trying to think back to when i was a Commercial Fitter of where i saw nylock nuts used the most..... I'd probably say i saw plenty of nylock nuts used on prop-shafts and their flanges, all the trucks i used to work on were at least 4 years old so i can't say if they came out the factory like that but on such a highly stressed component and considering the huge rotational forces and speeds, it would make sense to have a fail safe on that component i guess.

Karl

Karl, seems we have lived in the same world of Truck engineers, I have worked for Volvo truck and Bus,ERF trucks, Scania Trucks, and went on training courses with them all, on the drive line courses, none recomended re-newing the prop bolts, UNLESS the yokes had come loose and the 11.9 steel bolts had got a shoulder on them,

The pics you put up are of course for rebuild purposes, i see the 6 bolts for the flex plate, quite normal for replacement TQs or auto trans,

I remember well the wheel nut indicators, usually yellow colour, tourque up the nuts and fit the indicators, pointing at each other, they were/are a good idea,

[BigBikeBKK]

ok, clever people, please tell me of a manufactur who uses loctite on an orignal build, and who uses it on an engine re-build? if for eg they use it on big end bolts & nuts, then the nuts are suspect in the first place, as for using it on a wheel axle, that is stupid, better to use coppa-slip, so the axle doesnt seize in the bearing/hub assembly,

1996 i bought a Kawasaki ZZR1100, had it modified with zxr 750 carb tops, this gave it many extra HPs , then a ex kawasaki race man dyno jetted it and tuned the engine, it made 137bhp on the dyno with no ram-air effect, the ram air would make another 10 bhp, and depending on use, a rear tyre would last between 2000 and 4000 miles, and some heavy 2 up with panniers touring in Europe, i live in Thailand now, and have been here 5 years, my son has my Kawasaki in UK its done 67000miles, same rear axle and nut, no loctite,

In all my years in the commercial auto trade as an engineer, only Cummins suggested using theadlock on bolts, and that was on a torque converter to a flex plate,

So come on, post the links where a modern bike manufacture uses threadlock,

Are you being deliberately obtuse? Who in the world uses thread lock on an axle bolt???

I can't think of a single manufacturer that DOESN'T use locking agents in modern vehicles.

Flip through any car or bike shop manual and you'll see that modern cars and bikes DO indeed have bolts that are thread locked at the time of manufacture.

Need an easy example?

Brake disc mounting bolts.

Next!

Again you show after market stuff, when i refit a bike caliper, its with Copaslip on the bolts, the reaction with steel and alloy is enough of a locking device in its self, so no need for any locking glue, if you are not wise enough to realise that, then dont post crap!! and again, show me where a new vehicle maker uses theadlock, not aftermarket,,,,

You just don't want to admit you're wrong, but you are. Oh well, we've already given you plenty of examples of bolts that are threadlocked at the time of manufacture. If you want to live in denial that's your prerogative. I won't waste any more time on this topic. Have a nice day!

[hehehoho]

^ So you can't then?

[Garry]

Sounds like everyone has varying experiences from backyard mechanics, shop mechanics and aircraft mechanics (yours truly). Most cases there is no real right or wrong if you follow manufacturers guidelines. Tony I've used factory prepped caliper bolts with the bonded powder coating. Work like a charm. After market bleed nipple manufacturers also recommend a simliar compound.

At the end of the day, if you don't wish to use a threadlocker whether it be a mechanical or liquid medium, it's entirely up to yourselves and the onus is on you if it all ends in tears. I'm guilty myself on my bikes not using threadlocking compound at times, but I am also a regular maintainer (preventative maintenace) type guy on my bikes and cars.

[kaorop]

<br />

<br />

<br />ok, clever people, please tell me of a manufactur who uses loctite on an orignal build, and who uses it on an engine re-build? if for eg they use it on big end bolts & nuts, then the nuts are suspect in the first place, as for using it on a wheel axle, that is stupid, better to use coppa-slip, so the axle doesnt seize in the bearing/hub assembly, <br />1996 i bought a Kawasaki ZZR1100, had it modified with zxr 750 carb tops, this gave it many extra HPs , then a ex kawasaki race man dyno jetted it and tuned the engine, it made 137bhp on the dyno with no ram-air effect, the ram air would make another 10 bhp, and depending on use, a rear tyre would last between 2000 and 4000 miles, and some heavy 2 up with panniers touring in Europe, i live in Thailand now, and have been here 5 years, my son has my Kawasaki in UK its done 67000miles, same rear axle and nut, no loctite, <br />In all my years in the commercial auto trade as an engineer, only Cummins suggested using theadlock on bolts, and that was on a torque converter to a flex plate, <br /><br />So  come on, post the links where a modern bike manufacture uses threadlock,<br />

<br /><br />Are you being deliberately obtuse? Who in the world uses thread lock on an axle bolt??? <img src='http://static.thaivisa.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/blink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /><br /><br />I can't think of a single manufacturer that DOESN'T use locking agents in modern vehicles.<br /><br />Flip through any car or bike shop manual and you'll see that modern cars and bikes DO indeed have bolts that are thread locked at the time of manufacture.<br /><br />Need an easy example? <br /><br />Brake disc mounting bolts. <br /><br /><br />Next! <img src='http://static.thaivisa.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /><br />

<br /><br />Again you show after market stuff, when i refit a bike caliper, its with Copaslip on the bolts, the reaction with steel and alloy is enough of a locking device in its self, so no need for any locking glue, if you are not wise enough to realise that, then dont post crap!! and again, show me where a new vehicle maker uses theadlock, not aftermarket,,,,<br />

<br /><br /><br

.

Seen many engine case bolts with a funny blue stuff on them, straight from

the factory, if its not a thread locking agent then please in all your infinite wisdom tell me what it is?

Ever looked at a manual? quite often they show a little bottle indicating the use of it on certain bolts /nuts, but I'm not your mothers keeper so educate yourself.

[Rider808]

My fairing screws don't use threadlock but theysure can use it.

[Garry]

My fairing screws don't use threadlock but theysure can use it.

If you have the rubber style 'well nuts', they will clamp firm just by the process of doing them up to your fairing & screen. My bike is a vibration monster and none have come loose yet. I have removed the screen a few times and I'm still using the same hardware.

http://www.sportbikebolts.com//index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=71_151&products_id=206

http://www.desmoparts.com/products/parts-catalog/ktm/m5-wellnuts

http://www.racebolts.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=675_685_690

http://www.boltmotorcyclehardware.com/product_info.php?cPath=45&products_id=175

Edited December 12, 2011 by Garry

[Rider808]

Pretty cool, never seen those before.

[Garry]

Pretty cool, never seen those before.

As you can see by the links, they are as cheap as chips as well. Very good cheap security.