Thai Ex-PM Abhisit Grilled Over Deadly Rally Crackdown

[webfact]

Thai ex-PM grilled over deadly rally crackdown

by Janesara Fugal

BANGKOK, December 9, 2011 (AFP) - Former Thai prime minister Abhisit Vejjajiva was questioned by police on Friday over a deadly military crackdown on mass opposition protests in Bangkok last year while he was in office.

Abhisit, now opposition leader, smiled but made no comment to reporters as he arrived at the Bangkok Metropolitan Police headquarters, where he was summoned as a witness.

About a dozen protesters gathered outside with signs that read "Murderer" and "Whoever gave the kill order must face karma".

More than 90 people, mostly civilians, were killed and nearly 1,900 were wounded during the April and May 2010 rallies, which drew about 100,000 "Red Shirt" demonstrators at their peak.

On Thursday Abhisit's former deputy Suthep Thaugsuban, who was in charge of national security at the time of the demonstrations, was grilled by police.

It is the first time that top members of the previous government have been summoned for questioning over their handling of the protests, which ended when soldiers firing live rounds stormed the fortified rally site.

Thailand now has a new government allied to the Red Shirts' hero, fugitive former leader Thaksin Shinawatra, whose sister Yingluck is prime minister and has raised the idea of an amnesty for politicians including her brother.

Her deputy Chalerm Yubamrung last month said that Thai authorities had clear evidence that government troops were responsible for the death of a Japanese cameraman, one of two foreign journalists killed during last year's crackdown.

Abhisit's government invoked emergency rule to deal with the unrest, giving broad powers to the military, which deployed thousands of troops in the capital.

A leading human rights watchdog in May accused Thai soldiers of "cold-blooded acts of murder" during the political violence.

New York-based Human Rights Watch said the army used snipers and crushed civil disobedience with disproportionate force during the Red Shirt rallies.

Troops fired "repeatedly and indiscriminately" into the Wat Pathum Wanaram temple, a supposedly safe zone where several people were killed, from a vantage point on the tracks of the capital's elevated train network, it said.

Chalerm has also blamed government security personnel -- acting on official orders -- for those deaths.

On Wednesday Chalerm also told reporters that a "senior police officer", whom he did not identify, was behind the high-profile death of a renegade major-general who became an unofficial military advisor to the Red Shirts.

Khattiya Sawasdipol, known as Seh Daeng, was shot in the head during an interview with a foreign reporter near the protest site -- an area where snipers were deployed at the time -- and later died in hospital.

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2011-12-09

[jonclark]

So what happens when the police find Abhisit and Suthep innocent? Will they be allowed to? Or will political interference prevent it? Will Jutuporn and Co be grilled as witnesses to explain their provocative statements? Ahhh thee mystery deepens.

[webfact]

POLITICAL CHAOS 2010

Abhisit gives statement to police

Photo : Sakol Sandhiratne

Democrat Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva gave his statement on Friday on the last year's political disturbances.

Abhisit is accompanied by his chief lawyer Bundit Siripan. He met 10 investigators at the Metropolitan Police Bureau.

Police have sought Abhisit’s statement on his role as the then prime minister overseeing the Centre for the Resolution of the Emergency Situation tasked to keep peace in the face the red-shirt rallies.

The police interview of Abhisit is part of the forensic checks into the cause of 16 killings suspected to involve security forces. Altogether 91 people died in connection with violent incidents from March to May last year.

On Thursday, Democrat MP Suthep Thuagsuban, accompanied by his lawyer and former attorney general Kanung Luechai, gave his statement as the then deputy prime minister and CRES director.

Emerging from his meeting with investigators, he said he told police that he was responsible for the April 10, 2010 crowd control.

He said he issued the order as CRES director and that Abhisit had no involvement in the operations.

He asserted he acted within his mandate given by the emergency decree and that the security forces had carried out their work within the legal limits.

The violence and bloodshed on Rajdamnoen Avenue was caused by the men in black, he said.

He is scheduled to meet police for a second interview on December 14 to outline incidents leading to the May 19, 2010 crowd dispersal at Ratchaprasong Intersection.

Chief investigator Maj General Anuchai Lekbumrung said he was confident the report on the 16 deaths could be wrapped up by the December 17 deadline.

-- The Nation 2011-12-09

[KRS1]

If people recall the situation correctly, Abhisit refrained from using force as long as he could. He refrained for so long that the military was on the verge of taking matters into their own hands.

The soldiers were very passive and were the one's being attacked by the red shirts, they just stood there taking a beating, getting homemade bombs thrown at them and getting injured.

The reds threw the first punch and kept throwing and kept throwing, while the soldiers just stood still... until eventually there was no way the military was going to allow their men to get harmed any longer.

The men in black are indeed a real group, not made up and not a figment of imagination. Where i use to work by Pratunam there is a restaurant i use to go to for lunch every other day. A couple of times there were indeed a few people sitting there with black shirts and combat fatigues wearing berets, before the rallies they were never there before.

The reds are the scum of thailand all things bad in Thailand are a result of these type of people....sorry to say though that the majority are poverty stricken with no education, easily manipulated and willing to do almost anything to get ahead - except put down the whiskey and pride...because when you are poor that's all you have left, your pride...and that's what all this is about, pride no matter if its red or yellow.

[sparebox2]

the order to fire life in the "Life firing zone" was done for the common good. Else protesters will not disperse.

[hellodolly]

It just struck me what the heck are the police doing interrogating them. When there was a need for action they ran.

Sorry I forgot Thaksins relative is the Police Chief. Silly me.:jap:

[webfact]

Ex-PM Abhisit testifies to police over last year's Red Shirt crackdown

BANGKOK, Dec 9 - Thailand's former prime minister Abhisit Vejjajiva on Friday testified to police on the last year's crackdown on Red Shirt protesters, saying he was unperturbed over police questioning.

Mr Abhisit, now opposition leader, appeared at Metropolitan Police headquarters after the investigator summoned him to give information as a witness on his government’s security operations responding to the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) on April 10 last year at Khok Wua intersection which resulted in the deaths of 16 people, both soldiers and civilians.

Some UDD members gathered outside the Metropolitan Police headquarters amid tight security to protest against Mr Abhisit.

The summoning of Mr Abhisit came after army spokesman Col Sansern Kaewkamnerd had testified to police, saying that the army operations were carried out under the orders of the then prime minister and the director of the Centre for the Resolution of the Emergency Situation (CRES).

Earlier in the day, Mr Abhisit said he was not worried over today's testimony as, finally, the truth will be understood and accepted by the public. He said he has prepared documents concerning the matter.

Mr Abhisit said he did not know how the investigation will be done, but said his government's operations last year in response to the UDD rallies was conducted in accordance with the court ruling that the government was duty-bound to maintain law and order when the demonstrations were unlawful.

The ex-premier reasserted that the security personnel followed international standard practice in crowd control by applying the softest measures before resorting to the tough ones.

On Thursday, former deputy prime minister Suthep Thaugsuban, who had supervised national security in the Abhisit Vejjajiva administration, testified to police on the same case.

Mr Suthep direct CRES, the agency set up to handle the street protests mounted by the anti-Abhisit government UDD during April and May, 2010, after a state of emergency was imposed to maintain law and order as the demonstrations turned violent.

The former security chief said after the investigation that he submitted a 33-page statement, together with copies of CRES orders concerning the case and photos of black-clad armed men who intervened in the security operations.

Mr Suthep confirmed to police that the April 10 operations were at his order as CRES director and under the emergency decree.

He insisted that all CRESS orders had nothing to do with then prime minister Abhisit.

“The deaths of security officials and civilians (on April 10) were caused by the black-clad men," Mr Suthep stated. "The investigators invited me to give more information on the incidents on April 13, May 14 and May16-19, 2010, as well as asking for video clips on the events.

Mr Suthep said he came to see police as a witness, not as an accused. (MCOT online news)

-- TNA 2011-12-09

[Oberkommando]

Why did he lie about using live ammunition?

[jonclark]

So i would guess that Abhisit is responsible for the death of Col Romklow at the intersection on 10th April?

[Riely]

Abhisit is a Hero. His only mistake was not authorizing the use of deadly force sooner. The Army should have been able to neutralize the terrorist red shirts after they attacked and murdered the general with hand grenades.

[PaulBax]

The army should have no role to play in law enforcement or should i say the self preservation of privileges.

it is normal for any country to hold an enquiry into deaths on the scale of what we saw! The problem here is there is a complete lack of any independent view

that can be trusted.

[tukkytuktuk]

So when there were riots in London it was wrong for David Cameron to suggest they might have to call a state of emergency and let the army restore law and order to the streets of London.

[PaulBax]

So when there were riots in London it was wrong for David Cameron to suggest they might have to call a state of emergency and let the army restore law and order to the streets of London.

The difference is that they would not shoot people indiscriminately if at al!

[tukkytuktuk]

Yes any army would use lethal force if it had a group of armed protesters firing machine guns and grenade launchers at them.

[phiphidon]

If people recall the situation correctly, Abhisit refrained from using force as long as he could. He refrained for so long that the military was on the verge of taking matters into their own hands.

The soldiers were very passive and were the one's being attacked by the red shirts, they just stood there taking a beating, getting homemade bombs thrown at them and getting injured.

The reds threw the first punch and kept throwing and kept throwing, while the soldiers just stood still... until eventually there was no way the military was going to allow their men to get harmed any longer.

The men in black are indeed a real group, not made up and not a figment of imagination. Where i use to work by Pratunam there is a restaurant i use to go to for lunch every other day. A couple of times there were indeed a few people sitting there with black shirts and combat fatigues wearing berets, before the rallies they were never there before.

The reds are the scum of thailand all things bad in Thailand are a result of these type of people....sorry to say though that the majority are poverty stricken with no education, easily manipulated and willing to do almost anything to get ahead - except put down the whiskey and pride...because when you are poor that's all you have left, your pride...and that's what all this is about, pride no matter if its red or yellow.

I'd like to take issue with your first sentence. The above is your recollection of events I take it, your opinion. You're entitled to it by all means but please do not project your opinion on what other people should think.

[phiphidon]

It just struck me what the heck are the police doing interrogating them. When there was a need for action they ran.

Sorry I forgot Thaksins relative is the Police Chief. Silly me.:jap:

Did you have a similar thought when these very same police were interrogating the Red Shirts?

[hellodolly]

If people recall the situation correctly, Abhisit refrained from using force as long as he could. He refrained for so long that the military was on the verge of taking matters into their own hands.

The soldiers were very passive and were the one's being attacked by the red shirts, they just stood there taking a beating, getting homemade bombs thrown at them and getting injured.

The reds threw the first punch and kept throwing and kept throwing, while the soldiers just stood still... until eventually there was no way the military was going to allow their men to get harmed any longer.

The men in black are indeed a real group, not made up and not a figment of imagination. Where i use to work by Pratunam there is a restaurant i use to go to for lunch every other day. A couple of times there were indeed a few people sitting there with black shirts and combat fatigues wearing berets, before the rallies they were never there before.

The reds are the scum of thailand all things bad in Thailand are a result of these type of people....sorry to say though that the majority are poverty stricken with no education, easily manipulated and willing to do almost anything to get ahead - except put down the whiskey and pride...because when you are poor that's all you have left, your pride...and that's what all this is about, pride no matter if its red or yellow.

I'd like to take issue with your first sentence. The above is your recollection of events I take it, your opinion. You're entitled to it by all means but please do not project your opinion on what other people should think.

I notice you don't deny the truth of the statement.

Being as you are a red shirt and do not deny it I take that as further proof of the statement.:jap:

[rubl]

It just struck me what the heck are the police doing interrogating them. When there was a need for action they ran.

Sorry I forgot Thaksins relative is the Police Chief. Silly me.:jap:

Did you have a similar thought when these very same police were interrogating the Red Shirts?

Yes of course

Now back to the OP "Thai ex-PM Abhisit grilled over deadly rally crackdown"

Probably one of the questions not asked because the answer might be embarrassing "why didn't you stick to using the police, you already used them for a month or so?"

[hellodolly]

It just struck me what the heck are the police doing interrogating them. When there was a need for action they ran.

Sorry I forgot Thaksins relative is the Police Chief. Silly me.:jap:

Did you have a similar thought when these very same police were interrogating the Red Shirts?

Of course not the red shirts were being interrogated for their crimes. Were you in another country when it happened you seem to be lacking in knowledge of what went down.

The red shirts illegally seized downtown Bangkok and the army moved them out the only way the red shirts would allow.

If you would have been here you would know that the government bargained in good faith. They agreed to terms and the red shirts immediately changed the terms. They were offered a early election the red shirts chose to delay it for another 6 months.

Abhist is being interrogated for doing the legal job he was hired to do.

Doe's that make sense to you? If it does don't bother to reply it would be to ludicrous to deserve a answer.:jap:

Edited December 9, 2011 by hellodolly

[moe666]

The proof in the pudding will be when BIG T returns will he be asked to testify to his support of the Red Shirts and how much money he contributed to trying to over throw the government. Will he also be asked why he encouraged the red shirts to refuse to except the PMs agreement to hold early elections. All parties should have to fess up to their participation in the deaths of 91 people.

[phiphidon]

If people recall the situation correctly, Abhisit refrained from using force as long as he could. He refrained for so long that the military was on the verge of taking matters into their own hands.

The soldiers were very passive and were the one's being attacked by the red shirts, they just stood there taking a beating, getting homemade bombs thrown at them and getting injured.

The reds threw the first punch and kept throwing and kept throwing, while the soldiers just stood still... until eventually there was no way the military was going to allow their men to get harmed any longer.

The men in black are indeed a real group, not made up and not a figment of imagination. Where i use to work by Pratunam there is a restaurant i use to go to for lunch every other day. A couple of times there were indeed a few people sitting there with black shirts and combat fatigues wearing berets, before the rallies they were never there before.

The reds are the scum of thailand all things bad in Thailand are a result of these type of people....sorry to say though that the majority are poverty stricken with no education, easily manipulated and willing to do almost anything to get ahead - except put down the whiskey and pride...because when you are poor that's all you have left, your pride...and that's what all this is about, pride no matter if its red or yellow.

I'd like to take issue with your first sentence. The above is your recollection of events I take it, your opinion. You're entitled to it by all means but please do not project your opinion on what other people should think.

I notice you don't deny the truth of the statement.

Being as you are a red shirt and do not deny it I take that as further proof of the statement.:jap:

1. I'm not aware that I am a red shirt.

2. I do not need to deny his version of events - if that is what he wants to believe so be it. I do disagree that according to him his version should be accepted as gospel as indicated by his opening statement "If people recall the situation correctly". This statement declares that any other version of events than those shown above are incorrect. I disagree.

[phiphidon]

It just struck me what the heck are the police doing interrogating them. When there was a need for action they ran.

Sorry I forgot Thaksins relative is the Police Chief. Silly me.:jap:

Did you have a similar thought when these very same police were interrogating the Red Shirts?

Yes of course

Now back to the OP "Thai ex-PM Abhisit grilled over deadly rally crackdown"

Probably one of the questions not asked because the answer might be embarrassing "why didn't you stick to using the police, you already used them for a month or so?"

Indeed he could. But then people may ask why the Army did not get involved with the PAD disturbances when ordered to do so but that may be embarrassing too which is probably why it hasn't been pursued. Seems like the Army likes to pick its opponents.............though under the control of the Prime Minister in an Emergency Decree of course.

[hellodolly]

It just struck me what the heck are the police doing interrogating them. When there was a need for action they ran.

Sorry I forgot Thaksins relative is the Police Chief. Silly me.:jap:

Did you have a similar thought when these very same police were interrogating the Red Shirts?

Yes of course

Now back to the OP "Thai ex-PM Abhisit grilled over deadly rally crackdown"

Probably one of the questions not asked because the answer might be embarrassing "why didn't you stick to using the police, you already used them for a month or so?"

Indeed he could. But then people may ask why the Army did not get involved with the PAD disturbances when ordered to do so but that may be embarrassing too which is probably why it hasn't been pursued. Seems like the Army likes to pick its opponents.............though under the control of the Prime Minister in an Emergency Decree of course.

How did the the PAD get involved in all this.

Did I miss some thing was Abhist the PM then?

[rubl]

It just struck me what the heck are the police doing interrogating them. When there was a need for action they ran.

Sorry I forgot Thaksins relative is the Police Chief. Silly me.:jap:

Did you have a similar thought when these very same police were interrogating the Red Shirts?

Yes of course

Now back to the OP "Thai ex-PM Abhisit grilled over deadly rally crackdown"

Probably one of the questions not asked because the answer might be embarrassing "why didn't you stick to using the police, you already used them for a month or so?"

Indeed he could. But then people may ask why the Army did not get involved with the PAD disturbances when ordered to do so but that may be embarrassing too which is probably why it hasn't been pursued. Seems like the Army likes to pick its opponents.............though under the control of the Prime Minister in an Emergency Decree of course.

Although the activities of the PAD in 2008 are equally interesting, the OP is on "Thai ex-PM Abhisit grilled over deadly rally crackdown"

Edited December 9, 2011 by rubl

[ozzieman05]

It just struck me what the heck are the police doing interrogating them. When there was a need for action they ran.

Sorry I forgot Thaksins relative is the Police Chief. Silly me.:jap:

Did you have a similar thought when these very same police were interrogating the Red Shirts?

Of course not the red shirts were being interrogated for their crimes. Were you in another country when it happened you seem to be lacking in knowledge of what went down.

The red shirts illegally seized downtown Bangkok and the army moved them out the only way the red shirts would allow.

If you would have been here you would know that the government bargained in good faith. They agreed to terms and the red shirts immediately changed the terms. They were offered a early election the red shirts chose to delay it for another 6 months.

Abhist is being interrogated for doing the legal job he was hired to do.

Doe's that make sense to you? If it does don't bother to reply it would be to ludicrous to deserve a answer.:jap:

The new Government want complete control of Thailand to drain ever last spare baht into their own pockets

The only things that stands in their way is a few opposition MPS

If they can get rid of these people there is nothing left to stop them sending Thailand back into the dark ages

and every one will become rich

Yes it is bad that some red shirts believed they where imortal, and found out they where not

But the amount who dies is so small compared to other eastern countries with their protests the Red shirs got off very lucky

The coup was terrible thing for Thailand the Red shirts say

But they never mention not one person died

But the protest was the right thing to do

and again it was the Red shirts who made it clear they wanted to die for democracy

[PaulBax]

i think you will find over the years the ptp, pp, trt etc have been the more progressive grouping in Thailand which has been why there was a coup and so much effort put into making sure that Thailand should not move into the 21st century

Sure there is still a lot wrong with them but they are defiantly the more progressive party in this country a denial of this is just lies.

[Ricardo]

then i guess the fact that the army admits to shooting 117000 live rounds is irrelevant?

Do you have a source for that admission ?

I recall that the bullets had disappeared, according to the military stock-records, but that's a very-different thing from their having been actually used as intended, and in this particular engagement, rather than sold-off to whomever.

Selling weapons & ammo would be a 'nice little earner'.

[PaulBax]

then i guess the fact that the army admits to shooting 117000 live rounds is irrelevant?

Do you have a source for that admission ?

I recall that the bullets had disappeared, according to the military stock-records, but that's a very-different thing from their having been actually used as intended, and in this particular engagement, rather than sold-off to whomever.

Selling weapons & ammo would be a 'nice little earner'.

search on TV

[metisdead]

Troll posts and responses have been removed.

[patjem]

So when there were riots in London it was wrong for David Cameron to suggest they might have to call a state of emergency and let the army restore law and order to the streets of London.

The difference is that they would not shoot people indiscriminately if at al!

Indiscriminately? 91 deaths was the total over 3 months. The first group of killings, the perpetrators were not the army, but men in black..... When the protest was fully moved downtown, incidents of grenades being thrown by reds/ black continued almost daily. THOSE acts were certainly indiscriminate. When finally "enough was enough", with the protest becoming moe violent and dangerous, a live fire zone was set up. If an offender enters that zone, I would consider that they had been warned of the consequences and were there by choice (including the shot reporter). Therefore, hardly indiscriminately carried out.