Is There Really A Plot To Get Rid Of Thaksin?

[Jai Dee]

DATELINE BANGKOK

Is there really a plot to get rid of Thaksin?

Thai Rath Editorial _ Is there a real campaign to topple the government of Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra? Members of the ruling Thai Rak Thai party (TRT) seem to think so. They felt something fishy was going on when key opposition figures showed up at last Friday's talk show by Sondhi Limthongkul, who has accused Mr Thaksin of misuse of power.

If the TRT members truly believe that there is a movement to topple the government, they must give supporting evidence to the police so that legal action is taken against the alleged conspirators. The accusation is serious because acts of treason carry the death penalty.

Opposition parties may seek to unseat the government through a censure motion. But this is impossible because the opposition parties have only 125 votes in the 500-strong House of Representatives. They can't even form a government by themselves.

The TRT members apparently base their accusation on a meeting between Prime Minister Thaksin and a religious leader who allegedly claimed that the perpetrators of violence in the deep South want to remove Mr Thaksin from power. At a secret meeting across the border from southern Thailand, they allegedly plotted a smear campaign against Thaksin.

The southern terrorists may want Thaksin to go, but it is hard to mobilise mass public support based solely on an anti-Thaksin campaign.

According to Prince of Songkhla University researchers, there are three main causes for the ongoing violence in the deep South _ the belief among a group of southern Thai Muslims that the three provinces of Yala, Pattani and Narathiwat must be separated from Thailand, the spread of Muslim fundamentalism, and the Thaksin government's failed policies.

Of greater concern is the myopic views of some politicians who tend to blame every problem on "people who hate the government''.

If these views are taken up by the public, they may overlook the real causes of the southern crisis.

Recently, a government figure suggested that narcotics trafficking gangs are also taking part in the violence in Yala, Pattani and Narathiwat.

We don't need such detractors to undermine the ongoing efforts for peace in the deep South.

Source: Bangkok Post - Thursday 24 November 2005

[Jai Dee]

And in the red corner, it's the challenger

By SANITSUDA EKACHAI

It is a clash of the titans. On one side is the country's richest and most powerful politician. On the other is a gutsy media mogul who has become the focal point of the ever-growing anti-Thaksin movement.

Both command their own media channels to expose the other side. Thaksin Shinawatra enjoys full control of television news stations and other state-controlled media.

But Sondhi Limthongkul doesn't have only the publications in his Manager Group on his side _ many newspapers are also rallying behind him because of Mr Thaksin's blatant disrespect for press freedom and civil liberties.

Apart from the power of word-of-mouth, Mr Sondhi also has the country's most popular news website which is read around the world by Thailand-watchers. The implications are evident. While Mr Thaksin can continue to discount Mr Sondhi with his majority rural voters, Mr Sondhi's media-savviness and headline-grabbing exposes will most certainly make urban voters think twice before they cast their votes in the next general election.

With ''Sondhi fever'' quickly gaining speed and intensity, some even wonder aloud if Mr Thaksin will last that long.

Apart from comparable media back-up, both Mr Thaksin and Mr Sondhi also have their own support from key political players to match.

To start with, Mr Thaksin has his men in top military posts who do not hesitate to threaten their boss's enemy _ which is reminiscent of our darker political days.

The big businessmen who matter no longer support the ruling government from the sidelines as used to be the case during the early stages of ''money politics''.

They are now inside Mr Thaksin's government to protect their interests more effectively. But if Mr Thaksin is backed by money and might, Mr Sondhi can boast support from a wide spectrum of moral forces represented by civil society groups. They might have frowned upon Mr Sondhi before _ what with his fervent support for economic globalisation which destroys small people's livelihoods, and his history of being a staunch cheerleader for Mr Thaksin.

But Mr Thaksin and his men have effectively turned the media mogul into a symbol of state persecution. And instead of caving in as other media often do, Mr Sondhi's fearlessness and wealth of inside information about the abuses of power and corruption have turned him into a crushing political bulldozer _ exactly what civic groups need to stop the government from turning the country entirely over to big business.

Interestingly, while the country urgently needs a wider definition of nationalism to restore peace in a more pluralistic society, both Mr Thaksin and Mr Sondhi are employing the same narrow nationalism recipe to build support.

Mr Thaksin's trick is to sell dreams of grandure, that Thailand will fast become a power house if everyone just listens to him. When the southern strife shakes his credibility, he doesn't hesitate to appeal to the Buddhist majority with ethno-centric nationalism to maintain his popularity. But Mr Sondhi also knows what makes people tick. No, not high-minded goals such as justice and accountability that should be the hallmarks of democracy, but the plain, simple anger people feel when their sacred institutions, particularly the monarchy, are violated.

As the mass momentum builds up to challenge civilian authoritarianism, the reason why these two giants broke ranks seems to be irrelevant. The split came at the right moment. For many, that is more than enough. Despite being bombarded by court cases to silence him, Mr Sondhi is on the offensive. While the government is only starting to explain away the alleged violation of royal prerogatives, Mr Sondhi is already moving on to other corruption scandals that spur a public sense of injustice. But will all this screech to a halt now that Luangta Maha Bua, a revered monk with his own brand of nationalism, wants to intervene?

We must watch this battle without batting an eyelid.

Sanitsuda Ekachai is Assistant Editor, Bangkok Post.

Published on Thursday 24 November 2005

[GuestHouse]

Is there a plot to get rid of him?

No, but there is a democracy, something he seems not to understand.

[awarrumbungle]

Where does democracy stop and the plot start?

[thaibebop]

Sounds like Hitler sized paranoia.

[TAWP]

Where does democracy stop and the plot start?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

When you take up arms.

[Jai Dee]

I originally posted this subject in the General Forum, thinking that these articles were only editorial opinion and commentary, and may be of interest to those of us who show some interest in the Thai political arena.

However, it now appears that the PM's office is taking the situation very seriously.

This is the latest bulletin from the Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department.....

PM'S OFFICE MINISTER DOES NOT BELIEVE THAT THE REVOLUTION WILL HAPPEN

The Minister attached to the Prime Minister’s Office, Mr. SURANAND VEJJAJIVA (สุรนันทน์ เวชชาชีวะ), does not believe that the revolution will happen, and he has requested the public not to panic over such rumour.

Mr. SURANAND believes that the people, the military and the government do not want to start a revolution. He commented that if they want to revolutionize, the change should be beneficial for the national economy. However, he conceded that there may be a few ill-intentioned in Thailand, and therefore, he has called on the majority of the people to help maintain the democratic regime. Meanwhile, the public can criticize the government, but those criticisms should be under the legal framework.

He also views that the accusation of defamation made by Prime Minister THAKSIN SHINAWATRA is normal, as he is entitled to protect his rights.

[thaibebop]

OKay does this mean that the revolution will not be on the television or that they will just leave out the bloody parts?

[cdnvic]

I think the more likely scenerio is the PM's own party ousting him.

cv

[thaibebop]

I think that is a very real possibility. They would never get voted back in if he gives them a bad name.

[cdnvic]

Happened here in Canada about a year ago.

cv

[thaibebop]

Happened here in Canada about a year ago.

cv

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What, Thaksin got kicked out of Canada?!

[baht&sold]

Apparently this all stems from a 'mercury retrograde' thing... a peculiar event which strikes influential leaders around this time of year and prevents them from replying to reporters and such (until it passes in Jan) Meantime, mum's the word ...

[Khutan]

Happened here in Canada about a year ago.

cv

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What, Thaksin got kicked out of Canada?!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No wonder he was so busy about a year ago.

[h90]

if they start saying nothing will happen, than they are already pretty nervous. And that all only because the stupid stars are telling it is a bad time for corrupt thai leaders....

[Butterfly]

Rumor is that things are getting out of hand and turning ugly. A lot of "behind the scene" dramas as we speak. TRT members threatening to leave over some "money" issues, fake lawsuits to make Thaksin looks bad, etc... who knows. Rumor among Hi So Thais is that the government is about to collapse with or without a coup (pretty difficult with all Toxin cousins in the loop). It seems that this government has no credibility left and is running on Media Blitz to survive.

[DJ Pat]

Is there really a plot to get rid of Thaksin?

Bloody hope so!

[opothai]

Is there really a plot to get rid of Thaksin?

Bloody hope so!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

seconded

[h90]

Is there really a plot to get rid of Thaksin?

Bloody hope so!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

my opinion, too....

[strawberry]

I might be reading the wrong paper but it seems to me that the only people talking revolution are Thaksin supporters. Perhaps to scare the Sondhi folks.

More than 1000 cops at his big show this week.

going back to the resent election, I asked folks here in the village why they didn't vote for Thaksin and they said he didn't keep his word that he lied about releasing land to the poor farmers. Seems to me the winners didn't get it on their own Thaksin gave it to them.

I've always had the impression that Thaksin was above himself and needs to come down to our level.

back in the days that I had horses if a horse was above itself I'd have to pull it down and perhaps this is what is happening to Mr. T

Did you know that if a horse is above itself and it can't be brought down one of two things can happen 1. it goes to the abbators and ends up in cans or 2. it goes to the rodeo but for that to happen needs to have a big heart.

Joe

[John K]

Well lets see,

everyday he manages to piss someone else off by being so argent and talking down to everyone.

He has managed to reduce the income of the average working Thai.

He has become so involved in trying to keep things covered up he seems to have become for the moment impotent (a good thing).

He has forgot or never knew that he serves the people and not the other way around.

He aggressively removes anything or anyone in his way.

He tells everyone how and what to think (media control).

He denies the obvious.

No way is there a plot.

Does anyone know where Ken Star is working?

[Jai Dee]

Here is another viewpoint from another (Thai) forum:

There seems to be some china connection here. Chinese jew and neo hitler thaksin desperately trying to be the 2nd chairmain maeow and look how he is closely following the model.

Money is everything- spend all the people's (not his) money in mega and giga and maybe tera projects so all his family members can eat the cake. (China communist party members showed him this model)

Take absolute control of everything- Making this lovely charming homeland a complete nightmare. The next steps on his agenda are abolishing our constitutional monarchy and making Thailand a bullshit regime. He cares least about us and about our beloved and righetous monarchy.

(While their majesties and the members of revered royal family travel in scheduled THAI flights, this neo hitler/bush Dr. 'Toxin' bought airbus jetliner 'thaksin1' for his own pleasure.

Gag everyone- control everyone and everything- speech, thought, opinions- are discouraged. Put guards to all newspapers, internet, forums, control and ban them- communist china shows again.

Ignoring that thailand is also a multi ethnic country- we have chinese thais, malay thais, laotian thais, cambodian thais. Give everything to those who resembles his race and treat others like third class citizens. So that when they are deprived of rights, they will think of 'seperation' and 'autonomy' and then send the army and guns after them to kill them and shout out loud 'we have terrorism' then he can get close to his godfather george dubiya bush in the 'war on terror'.

Remember how fair Khun Chau Leek Pai was to all Thais? In this regard, one may try to look at malaysian or singaporean model of multi ethnic society. How many races will you find working at Changi or KL airport at all levels? That's just the first impression of any country.

Here in thailand, he has rotten the whole society. If you have lot of money, u are corrupt, have a fair skin like thaksin, then you are fine.

Well, it is getting a bit off topic. But the bottomline is: Thaksin has completely ruined Thailand of all her virtues, destroyed Thai people's lives and values and their charm (still some left, kudos to land of smile). Before we found ourselves nowhere, we must take actions. It is the land of the THAIs. It is THAILAND and not THAKSINLAND

Ignoring the spelling and grammatical errors, it does make one wonder about what the majority of Thais think...

[h90]

Here is another viewpoint from another (Thai) forum:

There seems to be some china connection here. Chinese jew and neo hitler thaksin desperately trying to be the 2nd chairmain maeow and look how he is closely following the model.

Money is everything- spend all the people's (not his) money in mega and giga and maybe tera projects so all his family members can eat the cake. (China communist party members showed him this model)

Take absolute control of everything- Making this lovely charming homeland a complete nightmare. The next steps on his agenda are abolishing our constitutional monarchy and making Thailand a bullshit regime. He cares least about us and about our beloved and righetous monarchy.

(While their majesties and the members of revered royal family travel in scheduled THAI flights, this neo hitler/bush Dr. 'Toxin' bought airbus jetliner 'thaksin1' for his own pleasure.

Gag everyone- control everyone and everything- speech, thought, opinions- are discouraged. Put guards to all newspapers, internet, forums, control and ban them- communist china shows again.

Ignoring that thailand is also a multi ethnic country- we have chinese thais, malay thais, laotian thais, cambodian thais. Give everything to those who resembles his race and treat others like third class citizens. So that when they are deprived of rights, they will think of 'seperation' and 'autonomy' and then send the army and guns after them to kill them and shout out loud 'we have terrorism' then he can get close to his godfather george dubiya bush in the 'war on terror'.

Remember how fair Khun Chau Leek Pai was to all Thais? In this regard, one may try to look at malaysian or singaporean model of multi ethnic society. How many races will you find working at Changi or KL airport at all levels? That's just the first impression of any country.

Here in thailand, he has rotten the whole society. If you have lot of money, u are corrupt, have a fair skin like thaksin, then you are fine.

Well, it is getting a bit off topic. But the bottomline is: Thaksin has completely ruined Thailand of all her virtues, destroyed Thai people's lives and values and their charm (still some left, kudos to land of smile). Before we found ourselves nowhere, we must take actions. It is the land of the THAIs. It is THAILAND and not THAKSINLAND

Ignoring the spelling and grammatical errors, it does make one wonder about what the majority of Thais think...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

it is approx. the same as my wife is telling me every time 10 times while kicking the picture of toxin (half chinese/half thai, coming from NakhonSiThamarat in the south).

I guess in Isaan they may think different.

[OldAsiaHand]

There was an interesting piece in the Wall Street Journal Asia today that gives some support to a number of the comments above.

In essence it suggested that the reason the southern provinces were such a mess is that the military is trying to undermine Thaksin's transfer of primary responsibility to the police for, you will excuse the expression, pacification. The military had a cozy deal going, goes the theory, profiting hugely from traditional smuggling activity, and now the police have taken that over and the military is hugely resentful. Therefore the military is actually trying to stir things up and make the police look bad until Thaksin turns everything back over to them. The piece even suggested that the military had effectively opened the border and was failing to make any effort to supervise trans-border traffic.

And this is the Wall Street Journal, folks.

[snoophound]

I suspect perhaps Mr T has overstepped even the wealthy persons mark.

Time will tell.

There was an interesting piece in the Wall Street Journal Asia today that gives some support to a number of the comments above.

In essence it suggested that the reason the southern provinces were such a mess is that the military is trying to undermine Thaksin's transfer of primary responsibility to the police for, you will excuse the expression, pacification. The military had a cozy deal going, goes the theory, profiting hugely from traditional smuggling activity, and now the police have taken that over and the military is hugely resentful. Therefore the military is actually trying to stir things up and make the police look bad until Thaksin turns everything back over to them. The piece even suggested that the military had effectively opened the border and was failing to make any effort to supervise trans-border traffic.

And this is the Wall Street Journal, folks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[John K]

With all this bashing of the PM, I get the feeling we somehow have influence on the situation. In reality the only influence we have is educating the Thais that truly don’t have a clue. However that will take some time.

In some instances the poor shape of the Thai education system is actually feeding the corruption. Perhaps the only way the “I don’t care because I know I will pass anyway” Thais that are now in society now support themself is by wheeling and dealing. No reputable company would hire them, and certainly they would never pass the “Does your resume match what between your ears” employment exam. The Thais that did study and not copy and cheat will get the good jobs. You can be your own judge as to what percentage of the population falls in what description. I truly feel sorry for the Thais that were let down by the system, they did not realize what was going on until it was too late.

At for the topic of this thread, any plot would have been stared by the PM himself. Consider that every action causes a reaction, or if you prefer cause and effect. Whatever was the seed that stared this weed growing was planed by him and him alone. By continuing to alienate everyone and the belief he has that he is above everyone has started his fall. If he has not done so already, he has stepped on one to many people.

What we are witnessing is what you would see with a cornered animal. The flight option is gone leaving only the fight option. Expect the PM to do and use whatever it takes to stay in power. Other actions don’t seem to match his style, he seems to prefer the stick to the carrot. However the problem will still remain even when and if he is gone.

The corruption in Thailand is like a vine entwined around a old wooden lattice. It’s difficult to know where to start cutting and if the vine is helping to support the lattice.

There is a double edge to this sword. Part of what makes Thailand so charming is the corruption as how it has lead the Thais to where they are today. In better terms ying and yang. If there was no corruption Thailand would resemble countries that have little or no corruption. Many of us have abandoned living there for the charm here. In the states is has become unbearable with the thought of smiling and complementing someone can get you in a sexual harassment issue. In Thailand that simply does not exist. I can’t speak for other countries, but each person living in Thailand has their reason(s) for living in The land of smiles.

At the moment ying and yang are out of balance, and the correction process is underway. How long before the pendulum swings back is anyone’s guess.

Too many little thing have added up to set ying and yang out of balance. For one, Thailand may be now viewed as “Asia’s part time tourist destination.” Closing venues too early has given that distinction. That alone has hurt more Thais than you can imagine, and I am sure is fueling what we are seeing. Apparently the people in government see tourist losses as small money, but is actually huge money for many Thais.

Some in the government apparently have not noticed that many tourist come from less tempered climates and can’t deal with the heat. That leaves them the late afternoon and night to explore and enjoy. Take that option away and you take away a big percent of the tourists.

The list can go on and on, and I know I don’t need to repeat what has been said time and time again. All we can do is watch the continuing saga unfold. However I feel we need not wait long.

[Guest endure]

In some instances the poor shape of the Thai education system is actually feeding the corruption. Perhaps the only way the “I don’t care because I know I will pass anyway” Thais that are now in society now support themself is by wheeling and dealing. No reputable company would hire them, and certainly they would never pass the “Does your resume match what between your ears” employment exam. The Thais that did study and not copy and cheat will get the good jobs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What you consider to be copying and cheating is viewed by many Thais as helping and assisting a member of their group.

[John K]

In some instances the poor shape of the Thai education system is actually feeding the corruption. Perhaps the only way the “I don’t care because I know I will pass anyway” Thais that are now in society now support themself is by wheeling and dealing. No reputable company would hire them, and certainly they would never pass the “Does your resume match what between your ears” employment exam. The Thais that did study and not copy and cheat will get the good jobs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What you consider to be copying and cheating is viewed by many Thais as helping and assisting a member of their group.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes but both you and I know the eventual outcome of that thinking.

[Guest endure]

In some instances the poor shape of the Thai education system is actually feeding the corruption. Perhaps the only way the “I don’t care because I know I will pass anyway” Thais that are now in society now support themself is by wheeling and dealing. No reputable company would hire them, and certainly they would never pass the “Does your resume match what between your ears” employment exam. The Thais that did study and not copy and cheat will get the good jobs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What you consider to be copying and cheating is viewed by many Thais as helping and assisting a member of their group.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes but both you and I know the eventual outcome of that thinking.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, a society that's unlike the one that that your views were formed in. Nonetheless it's a society that you choose to live in presumably because you think that the benefits outweigh the disadvantages. If you try and alter part of that society you have no idea what repercussions it will have elsewhere in that society. Apart from that it's not the job of outsiders to attempt to make major alterations to the society of a country - that's a job for the indigenous population. Iraq springs to mind as a prime example.

[John K]

I agree, all I am saying is provide the education, they still have the choice to use it or not. It provides some contrast and allows them to better understand the eventual outcome of their choices before the outcome arrives IE: trial and error verses predictable outcomes.

Edited November 29, 2005 by john Krukowski