A Female Luk Kruengs Viewpoint

[GreenSnapper]

Ludditeman- the topic on this thread is Thais' viewpoint of foreigners, and I'm sticking to it.

No, it's a foreign woman's viewpoint of foreigners. And not surprising the typical misandry which is common in the West and to some degree here in the forum.

[Ijustwannateach]

Some Thais I have spoken with for awhile- and made comfortable with the knowledge that I was well aware of the high number of 'difficult' foreigners who visit or live in Thailand- have agreed with me that there are far too many dysfunctional visitors here. Since we're *mainly* talking about men, I'll generalise here a bit and say that the main problem is denial:

1. denial of one's actual age, body type, fitness, social position, medical health;

2. denial of one's financial condition, relative power and importance, or personal authority over others;

3. denial of one's responsibilities outside Thailand, or to non-Thai friends and family, employment, or especially to one's self;

4. denial of the real nature of one's relationships with Thais

These things are made possible here by the following factors, among others:

1. Politeness/reluctance to confront by Thais who notice or are affected by crazy behaviour

2. A mercenary sector of the tourist industry which is willing to go to certain lengths to provide a fantasy existence for the right price(s)

3. A community full of similar types who can reassure each other that they are not wrong/in denial/misbehaving/out of touch/downright barking mad

4. The delusional sense that one is not in the age/stage in life in which one actually is because of the various denial factors

5. Developmental levels providing enough relative foreign comforts and visa-friendliness which permits long-term exercises in delusion

To put it mildly, the foreign male population in Thailand- moreso even than that of many other countries in this region- have some serious problems- and the fact that denial is so easily fostered and maintained here makes it even easier for persons with those problems to think to themselves, 'Ah, well- it was those idiots back home who were wrong, not me!!!' There is little reward and much frustration in trying to challenge such delusional types, and the best thing is to avoid them. I have been in a mode where my foreign male acquaintance has either been holding at steady numbers (when one drops away, a new one may be considered) or even falling over time, because it is rarely worth the risk of getting to know new foreign males in Thailand- and that's said as someone who's not even considering (generally) relationships with most of them. Not recommended.

On the other hand, is this "denial" so bad?

I work here, and except for monthly VFW meeting, socialize mostly with Thais. I don't have the time nor inclination to go to the bars. (The last time I was in a bar was to take a visiting customer 2 or 3 years ago. ) So what follows is not based on personal predilections nor trying to justify my own lifestyle.

If a western man chooses to live out the remainder of his life playing the bar scene, "denying" his age, health, real relationship with Thais, etc., and if there are "mercenary" Thais, who support that lifestyle, who cares? What is wrong with the "delusion" that one is not at a given "age/stage of life.?" As I get older, I hope I never feel the need to act or conduct myself as others feel is appropriate for an older man.

Back in San Diego, I knew an Italian immigrant in his mid 80's. He lived in a tiny closet of an apartment and ate very frugally. His financial situation was dire. But he had some very sharp suits, and he spent most days sitting in the sun outside of various cafes (where he usually only ordered a coffee.) He would jump up to pull seats out for women, and every woman walking by would get a tip of his hat. His big thing was to go to the opera, which he could only do a few times a year. He had grand delusions that he was a sophisticated man who was loved by the opera crowd. Yet no one ever from that crowd ever visited him. In reality, the guy was desperate for company, and I would sometimes take him out for lunch. I think his delusions about his situation were merely coping measures with reality. And if that helped him so, so what?

So we have a guy in San Diego in denial, as you described, and guys in Pattaya in denial. And if you think about it, they are pretty much the same. One goes to the opera and one brings back a bargirl. Who is to say that this is wrong, that this is a problem?

I am no young buck, but I am fairly fit and active. But the pages of the calendar are flipping, and it won't be long until I fit that demographic. I am not sure how I will react. Will I deny my condition? Will I deny my faltering physical resources?

I hope so.

Hey, Bonobo.

I don't think you are in denial at all, nor do I think you are likely to become that way- mainly because you are too aware of yourself. For example, I don't think it's a big secret that you are heavily into fitness and take care of yourself very well. That's not a sign of denial; it's a sign of awareness. In terms of the example you mention, it isn't the practice of people dating much younger persons or hanging out in beer-bars that means someone is in denial: it's the awareness of what they are doing.

The problem with denial (in a blanket sense) is that it allows those who practice it to ignore their responsibilities towards others as well as themselves. At best, this leads to neglect; at worse, it becomes abusive.

For example: one common bit of denial seen on this very thread (not by you!) is that it is ok to routinely expect a different set of responsibilities and duties for women based on their being women, without consideration of their being equal first-class human beings as men. Clearly, the women who have stated their opinions are not very happy with this- this denial by some men is inconsiderate of their feelings and their rights to equal kinds of responsibilities as human beings.

Self-denial might seem only to affect the individuals in question, but when it becomes extreme it also inconveniences those around an individual. If someone we are friends with has neglected his health, or finances, or other important areas of his life- when problems resulting from this become critical and expensive, it is the group of friends who will have to ante up to cover the responsibility or provide extra support, or else abandon the friend. I'm not saying that this isn't one of the reasons to have friends, but- as an example- denial that one may need insurance, leading to one not having insurance, is very inconsiderate towards one's friends if one presumes that they should pay for one in an emergency.

Denial of the reality of one's state becomes self-deluding in a way that insults the intelligence of others. I do have one or two older friends, for example, whose dating lives are mainly based around bars with, um, 'commercial' women- but they are not in denial. They don't claim that these women are with them for any non-financial reasons, nor do they have any illusions about 'falling in love'. So when they talk about their dating lives, I don't feel tempted to roll my eyes. On the other hand, when I hear long tales of woe from men whose partners have 'let them down' and 'only care about money', only to discover that those partners were picked up somewhere in a gogo place and have been consistently financially rewarded from the beginning, I do not feel welcome to say the obvious: 'They haven't let you down emotionally; you are delusional!!!' I imagine that such persons wind up only feeling comfortable around others who will tell them what they want to hear- a delusional support group... this means it is unlikely they will develop real friendship networks for support.

It isn't the activity itself- in the dating realm you mention- which makes someone delusional- it's their awareness of what they are really doing and why. In that respect, Thailand's tourist scene is particularly accommodating to the delusional and those who remain stuck there are rarely doing themselves or any persons who might become their real friends any favours. I can't see someone with eyes as fully open to his own nature and behaviour as you ever being much in denial in this sense.

I can feel twinges of sympathy myself for the poor old man you describe in your message- and I understand why you feel this way for him. I'm glad you spent time with him, and probably no harm done (to you) by letting him have these beliefs. But what if it was his own denial about how things were that took him (from the past) into this state? What if he had had more realistic beliefs that had prepared him more sufficiently for his old age? The desperate old men of today were the delusional not-so-old men of yesterday, and that is the state in which one finds many disasters-in-the-making among foreigners here today. Just consider the classic tales of 'men-who-lost-everything-to-the-scheming-woman' that are so common here... if those men were not in some serious denial, would they have fallen on such hard times?

[Ijustwannateach]

Ludditeman- the topic on this thread is Thais' viewpoint of foreigners, and I'm sticking to it.

No, it's a foreign woman's viewpoint of foreigners. And not surprising the typical misandry which is common in the West and to some degree here in the forum.

If you want to split hairs, it's a half-Thai woman's viewpoint of foreigners, and the word you are looking for is 'misanthropy'.

[Old Croc]

He got the word right.

[MrHammer]

Ludditeman- the topic on this thread is Thais' viewpoint of foreigners, and I'm sticking to it.

No, it's a foreign woman's viewpoint of foreigners. And not surprising the typical misandry which is common in the West and to some degree here in the forum.

If you want to split hairs, it's a half-Thai woman's viewpoint of foreigners, and the word you are looking for is 'misanthropy'.

It's not misanthropy but a common form of denial among women in the west called 'princess syndrome' or 'I have an opinion, hear me roar'

Also, I vehemently disagree that it's wrong to expect certain things from a woman or a man in a relationship. Some things are hardwired into people and trying to change that is in fact denial in itself.

Other than that, you contributed some excellent posts. Facing reality is always better, best of course if you can do it young!

[GreenSnapper]

and the word you are looking for is 'misanthropy'.

Look it up, Mr. Teacher: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/misandry

[473geo]

The more you try to explain IJWT the more it appears that infact you are not talking about a 'high number' of foreigners, but rather a select group

There will always be huge differential in those that make use of certain freedoms and practices in Thailand, and those who feel they are actually contributing to the country in a non monetary way

Truth is the retirement visa opens the door to a wide range of activities for the over 50s, perhaps you and your friends should lobby to close the visa options to working visa, and family visa, leaving only the tourist visa, thus eradicating the long term overseas residents you appear to think lower the tone of the expat squad by being in denial

Through my life I have experienced many personal changes, usually governed by what is acceptable to myself, my friends, family, and my surroundings. Most of changes brought about by my experiences as I travel through life. I have a lot of 'been there done that' behind me, and was not always the person I have become now. Rather than looking at people as being in denial, try taking the view that they are starting a journey, mostly into the unknown in Thailand where previous experience may count for little, where they will enjoy the ups and learn from the downs, but it is their journey, and part of the fun may involve removing the PC constraints and enjoying a new found freedom, part of that freedom may well involve filing away a forgetable past.

That you and your Thai friends feel you have to label people as being in denial does not in my view support an understanding or forgiving nature.........which I find a little suprising, as I know many Thai people who do possess such admirable qualities in abundance..........but of course I respect your entitlement to explain away the actions of others to your own satisfaction

Edited December 17, 2011 by 473geo

[Ijustwannateach]

and the word you are looking for is 'misanthropy'.

Look it up, Mr. Teacher: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/misandry

Cool! It's not everyday I get to learn a new word, thanks!

[Johnniey]

I have been in a mode where my foreign male acquaintance has either been holding at steady numbers (when one drops away, a new one may be considered) or even falling over time, because it is rarely worth the risk of getting to know new foreign males in Thailand- and that's said as someone who's not even considering (generally) relationships with most of them. Not recommended.

I'm trying hard to figure out if this statement is ignorance or racism.

I have many good male Thai friends.

Usually, when I hear this kind of talk it's by guys with some inferiority issues.

Edited December 17, 2011 by Johnniey

[ludditeman]

Ludditeman- the topic on this thread is Thais' viewpoint of foreigners, and I'm sticking to it.

No, it's a foreign woman's viewpoint of foreigners. And not surprising the typical misandry which is common in the West and to some degree here in the forum.

If you want to split hairs, it's a half-Thai woman's viewpoint of foreigners, and the word you are looking for is 'misanthropy'.

But a half-Thai woman who was educated in America, can't speak Thai and has spent almost no time in Thailand. It appears to me she is just spouting the usual American feminist dogma about men in Thailand.

The word is 'misandry' (hatred of men), as Miss LK comes across as hating western men.

(One could suspect she only really hates her father who bought her bar-girl mother)

Edited December 17, 2011 by ludditeman

[HardenedSoul]

Some Thais I have spoken with for awhile- and made comfortable with the knowledge that I was well aware of the high number of 'difficult' foreigners who visit or live in Thailand- have agreed with me that there are far too many dysfunctional visitors here. Since we're *mainly* talking about men, I'll generalise here a bit and say that the main problem is denial:

1. denial of one's actual age, body type, fitness, social position, medical health;

2. denial of one's financial condition, relative power and importance, or personal authority over others;

3. denial of one's responsibilities outside Thailand, or to non-Thai friends and family, employment, or especially to one's self;

4. denial of the real nature of one's relationships with Thais

These things are made possible here by the following factors, among others:

1. Politeness/reluctance to confront by Thais who notice or are affected by crazy behaviour

2. A mercenary sector of the tourist industry which is willing to go to certain lengths to provide a fantasy existence for the right price(s)

3. A community full of similar types who can reassure each other that they are not wrong/in denial/misbehaving/out of touch/downright barking mad

4. The delusional sense that one is not in the age/stage in life in which one actually is because of the various denial factors

5. Developmental levels providing enough relative foreign comforts and visa-friendliness which permits long-term exercises in delusion

To put it mildly, the foreign male population in Thailand- moreso even than that of many other countries in this region- have some serious problems- and the fact that denial is so easily fostered and maintained here makes it even easier for persons with those problems to think to themselves, 'Ah, well- it was those idiots back home who were wrong, not me!!!' There is little reward and much frustration in trying to challenge such delusional types, and the best thing is to avoid them. I have been in a mode where my foreign male acquaintance has either been holding at steady numbers (when one drops away, a new one may be considered) or even falling over time, because it is rarely worth the risk of getting to know new foreign males in Thailand- and that's said as someone who's not even considering (generally) relationships with most of them. Not recommended.

Absolutely bang on !

[pxlgirl]

Wow... and I thought women are "oversensitive"

[Dararasmi]

I can't vouch for the veracity of the article's authorship, but I gotta say...I've banged loads of "good" Thai girls on the first date. (And without the involvement of alcohol or any other "substances".)

Maybe they weren't as good as you thought.

Well, not afterwards. That's for sure.

[bonobo]

On the other hand, is this "denial" so bad?

I work here, and except for monthly VFW meeting, socialize mostly with Thais. I don't have the time nor inclination to go to the bars. (The last time I was in a bar was to take a visiting customer 2 or 3 years ago. ) So what follows is not based on personal predilections nor trying to justify my own lifestyle.

If a western man chooses to live out the remainder of his life playing the bar scene, "denying" his age, health, real relationship with Thais, etc., and if there are "mercenary" Thais, who support that lifestyle, who cares? What is wrong with the "delusion" that one is not at a given "age/stage of life.?" As I get older, I hope I never feel the need to act or conduct myself as others feel is appropriate for an older man.

Back in San Diego, I knew an Italian immigrant in his mid 80's. He lived in a tiny closet of an apartment and ate very frugally. His financial situation was dire. But he had some very sharp suits, and he spent most days sitting in the sun outside of various cafes (where he usually only ordered a coffee.) He would jump up to pull seats out for women, and every woman walking by would get a tip of his hat. His big thing was to go to the opera, which he could only do a few times a year. He had grand delusions that he was a sophisticated man who was loved by the opera crowd. Yet no one ever from that crowd ever visited him. In reality, the guy was desperate for company, and I would sometimes take him out for lunch. I think his delusions about his situation were merely coping measures with reality. And if that helped him so, so what?

So we have a guy in San Diego in denial, as you described, and guys in Pattaya in denial. And if you think about it, they are pretty much the same. One goes to the opera and one brings back a bargirl. Who is to say that this is wrong, that this is a problem?

I am no young buck, but I am fairly fit and active. But the pages of the calendar are flipping, and it won't be long until I fit that demographic. I am not sure how I will react. Will I deny my condition? Will I deny my faltering physical resources?

I hope so.

Hey, Bonobo.

I don't think you are in denial at all, nor do I think you are likely to become that way- mainly because you are too aware of yourself. For example, I don't think it's a big secret that you are heavily into fitness and take care of yourself very well. That's not a sign of denial; it's a sign of awareness. In terms of the example you mention, it isn't the practice of people dating much younger persons or hanging out in beer-bars that means someone is in denial: it's the awareness of what they are doing.

The problem with denial (in a blanket sense) is that it allows those who practice it to ignore their responsibilities towards others as well as themselves. At best, this leads to neglect; at worse, it becomes abusive.

For example: one common bit of denial seen on this very thread (not by you!) is that it is ok to routinely expect a different set of responsibilities and duties for women based on their being women, without consideration of their being equal first-class human beings as men. Clearly, the women who have stated their opinions are not very happy with this- this denial by some men is inconsiderate of their feelings and their rights to equal kinds of responsibilities as human beings.

Self-denial might seem only to affect the individuals in question, but when it becomes extreme it also inconveniences those around an individual. If someone we are friends with has neglected his health, or finances, or other important areas of his life- when problems resulting from this become critical and expensive, it is the group of friends who will have to ante up to cover the responsibility or provide extra support, or else abandon the friend. I'm not saying that this isn't one of the reasons to have friends, but- as an example- denial that one may need insurance, leading to one not having insurance, is very inconsiderate towards one's friends if one presumes that they should pay for one in an emergency.

Denial of the reality of one's state becomes self-deluding in a way that insults the intelligence of others. I do have one or two older friends, for example, whose dating lives are mainly based around bars with, um, 'commercial' women- but they are not in denial. They don't claim that these women are with them for any non-financial reasons, nor do they have any illusions about 'falling in love'. So when they talk about their dating lives, I don't feel tempted to roll my eyes. On the other hand, when I hear long tales of woe from men whose partners have 'let them down' and 'only care about money', only to discover that those partners were picked up somewhere in a gogo place and have been consistently financially rewarded from the beginning, I do not feel welcome to say the obvious: 'They haven't let you down emotionally; you are delusional!!!' I imagine that such persons wind up only feeling comfortable around others who will tell them what they want to hear- a delusional support group... this means it is unlikely they will develop real friendship networks for support.

It isn't the activity itself- in the dating realm you mention- which makes someone delusional- it's their awareness of what they are really doing and why. In that respect, Thailand's tourist scene is particularly accommodating to the delusional and those who remain stuck there are rarely doing themselves or any persons who might become their real friends any favours. I can't see someone with eyes as fully open to his own nature and behaviour as you ever being much in denial in this sense.

I can feel twinges of sympathy myself for the poor old man you describe in your message- and I understand why you feel this way for him. I'm glad you spent time with him, and probably no harm done (to you) by letting him have these beliefs. But what if it was his own denial about how things were that took him (from the past) into this state? What if he had had more realistic beliefs that had prepared him more sufficiently for his old age? The desperate old men of today were the delusional not-so-old men of yesterday, and that is the state in which one finds many disasters-in-the-making among foreigners here today. Just consider the classic tales of 'men-who-lost-everything-to-the-scheming-woman' that are so common here... if those men were not in some serious denial, would they have fallen on such hard times?

OK, that explains your point better. When denial has deleterious effects on your self and loved ones, then yes, it is a problem.

But then there is Thomas Gray's famous quote "Where ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise." Unless the gents are already moaning about being taken for all their savings by their sweet, loving honey, if they can live in delusion and be happy about it, well, that is better than being miserable and just marking time until their earthly journeys end.

Being ex-military, I am very familiar with the Philippines and Filipina-American marriages. And as retired military often settle down around military bases, I knew many, many older gents with much younger Filipina wives. Being closer to the wives' ages, I often had conversations with the wives at various parties or functions. While one woman was well known for having secret assignations at every opportunity, the rest seemed to be devoted to taking care of their husbands. I don't think love entered into the equation, and two admitted to me that there was no love felt to their hubbies. But they felt both gratitude and a sense of duty to their husbands and would care for them until each passed away.

I am not asserting that their husbands were in denial over whether their wives truly loved them. Frankly, I don't know. But if they did think that they had found love, if they were happy, then so what? Better to be happy even if based on a house of straw than be miserable while fully aware of the truth.

If denial and delusions cause harm, then yes, this is an issue. But if our intrepid ex-pat really does think he is a "hansum man," or that while the bargirls might go with others as part of their job, they really like going with him above and beyond the money, well, what's the harm?

[F1fanatic]

Some Thais I have spoken with for awhile- and made comfortable with the knowledge that I was well aware of the high number of 'difficult' foreigners who visit or live in Thailand- have agreed with me that there are far too many dysfunctional visitors here. Since we're *mainly* talking about men, I'll generalise here a bit and say that the main problem is denial:

1. denial of one's actual age, body type, fitness, social position, medical health;

2. denial of one's financial condition, relative power and importance, or personal authority over others;

3. denial of one's responsibilities outside Thailand, or to non-Thai friends and family, employment, or especially to one's self;

4. denial of the real nature of one's relationships with Thais

These things are made possible here by the following factors, among others:

1. Politeness/reluctance to confront by Thais who notice or are affected by crazy behaviour

2. A mercenary sector of the tourist industry which is willing to go to certain lengths to provide a fantasy existence for the right price(s)

3. A community full of similar types who can reassure each other that they are not wrong/in denial/misbehaving/out of touch/downright barking mad

4. The delusional sense that one is not in the age/stage in life in which one actually is because of the various denial factors

5. Developmental levels providing enough relative foreign comforts and visa-friendliness which permits long-term exercises in delusion

To put it mildly, the foreign male population in Thailand- moreso even than that of many other countries in this region- have some serious problems- and the fact that denial is so easily fostered and maintained here makes it even easier for persons with those problems to think to themselves, 'Ah, well- it was those idiots back home who were wrong, not me!!!' There is little reward and much frustration in trying to challenge such delusional types, and the best thing is to avoid them. I have been in a mode where my foreign male acquaintance has either been holding at steady numbers (when one drops away, a new one may be considered) or even falling over time, because it is rarely worth the risk of getting to know new foreign males in Thailand- and that's said as someone who's not even considering (generally) relationships with most of them. Not recommended.

On the other hand, is this "denial" so bad?

I work here, and except for monthly VFW meeting, socialize mostly with Thais. I don't have the time nor inclination to go to the bars. (The last time I was in a bar was to take a visiting customer 2 or 3 years ago. ) So what follows is not based on personal predilections nor trying to justify my own lifestyle.

If a western man chooses to live out the remainder of his life playing the bar scene, "denying" his age, health, real relationship with Thais, etc., and if there are "mercenary" Thais, who support that lifestyle, who cares? What is wrong with the "delusion" that one is not at a given "age/stage of life.?" As I get older, I hope I never feel the need to act or conduct myself as others feel is appropriate for an older man.

Back in San Diego, I knew an Italian immigrant in his mid 80's. He lived in a tiny closet of an apartment and ate very frugally. His financial situation was dire. But he had some very sharp suits, and he spent most days sitting in the sun outside of various cafes (where he usually only ordered a coffee.) He would jump up to pull seats out for women, and every woman walking by would get a tip of his hat. His big thing was to go to the opera, which he could only do a few times a year. He had grand delusions that he was a sophisticated man who was loved by the opera crowd. Yet no one ever from that crowd ever visited him. In reality, the guy was desperate for company, and I would sometimes take him out for lunch. I think his delusions about his situation were merely coping measures with reality. And if that helped him so, so what?

So we have a guy in San Diego in denial, as you described, and guys in Pattaya in denial. And if you think about it, they are pretty much the same. One goes to the opera and one brings back a bargirl. Who is to say that this is wrong, that this is a problem?

I am no young buck, but I am fairly fit and active. But the pages of the calendar are flipping, and it won't be long until I fit that demographic. I am not sure how I will react. Will I deny my condition? Will I deny my faltering physical resources?

I hope so.

Nothing wrong with denial, as long as they don't try to convince others that their warped view is reality. Then it is just sad.

[bonobo]

Nothing wrong with denial, as long as they don't try to convince others that their warped view is reality. Then it is just sad.

It may be sad, but why is that wrong?

To take the example of some guy believing that his partner is in love with him when she is really there for more commercial interests, when he asserts to you that she really loves him, and he believes it, what harm is there? You may know better, and you may think it is sad, but I don't see how that is wrong.

Ijustwannateach brings up a good point in if that delusion results in neglect or abuse, then it is wrong. But simple delusion which results in no harm is, by that very nature, harmless. And even if a person tries to convince others at to their views on reality, so what?

I will admit that when faced by such a situation, I may roll my eyes and even feel pity, but by what right am I elevated to justify feeling pity for someone whose only fault is that he is happy?

For personal reasons, this has been a horrendously horrible week for me, and to be honest, I kind of wish I had the ability to go into denial as to the consequences of my week, or denial on what could have been.

[Boo]

I don't care if someone lives in delusion or just lives differently to me, I don't care what they want in a wife or husband, what they think a woman or man should or shouldn't do, they just have a different view of life than me, what I do object to is the rantings that we often see on this forum deriding (usually) women who don't fit their ideas. That I object to.

Makes me wonder, if they are so dam_n happy with their choices then why are they so obsessed with the choices of others. They need to learn to live & let live & pull their head out of their asses about other peoples choices.

[mataus101]

she is not against farang at all.

her writing is about sex tourists and the old guys who marry young whores finding trouble, getting what they deserve.

only sex tourists and the like would diagree with her or find to much fault in her writing.

most farang in thailand are really pathetic, and remember i said most not all.

they make a business transaction, get married, and really believe they are a stud, the handsome man comments goes to there wrinkled up old heads.

now it's time for dads army to strike me down and attack my post, here it comes, i could praise mother teresa here and get flamed.

Edited December 17, 2011 by mataus101

[mataus101]

I should point out that if in the marriage between the young lady and her old old man he is aware of the fact he is being used, thats fine.

He is using her, she is using him, great,

however what I think is pathetic is when they cannot see it, and they are clearly being used but walk around with there head held high, thinking everyone is looking at them like some god, when really people are laughing at them and thinking ohhh you poor misguided fool.

Those that are aware that it is often just a business transaction, often but not always, fine, those that are not, take the blinkers off.

[ludditeman]

she is not against farang at all.

her writing is about sex tourists and the old guys who marry young whores finding trouble, getting what they deserve.

only sex tourists and the like would diagree with her or find to much fault in her writing.

most farang in thailand are really pathetic, and remember i said most not all.

they make a business transaction, get married, and really believe they are a stud, the handsome man comments goes to there wrinkled up old heads.

now it's time for dads army to strike me down and attack my post, here it comes, i could praise mother teresa here and get flamed.

Bit judgmental of you!

What exactly do you think is wrong with sex tourists?

And how come you don't consider yourself one?

After all you say you are a foreigner and are presumably having sex with a local, so how are you different from the others?

The only way you wouldn't be a sex tourist, is if you had never slept with a Thai lady (as far as I can understand the definition)

[473geo]

I should point out that if in the marriage between the young lady and her old old man he is aware of the fact he is being used, thats fine.

He is using her, she is using him, great,

however what I think is pathetic is when they cannot see it, and they are clearly being used but walk around with there head held high, thinking everyone is looking at them like some god, when really people are laughing at them and thinking ohhh you poor misguided fool.

Those that are aware that it is often just a business transaction, often but not always, fine, those that are not, take the blinkers off.

Are you sure? at 60+, money in the bank, and with a young attractive attentive lady to take care of him, he too may just be slightly amused by the 60+, with a 55 year old wife, thinking he is a misguided fool?

Edited December 17, 2011 by 473geo

[Ulysses G.]

Bit judgmental of you!

What exactly do you think is wrong with sex tourists?

And how come you don't consider yourself one?

He carries a Lonely Planet Guidebook and everyone knows that if you buy a Lonely Planet, you are a "traveler" , not a tourist.

[cardholder]

Bit judgmental of you!

What exactly do you think is wrong with sex tourists?

And how come you don't consider yourself one?

He carries a Lonely Planet Guidebook and everyone knows that if you buy a Lonely Planet, you are a "traveler" , not a tourist.

So will we now have "sex travelers" ?

[Ulysses G.]

You have to buy a Lonely Planet to achieve the distiction from run-of-the-mill sex tourists.

Edited December 17, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[Wallaby]

I should point out that if in the marriage between the young lady and her old old man he is aware of the fact he is being used, thats fine.

He is using her, she is using him, great,

however what I think is pathetic is when they cannot see it, and they are clearly being used but walk around with there head held high, thinking everyone is looking at them like some god, when really people are laughing at them and thinking ohhh you poor misguided fool.

Those that are aware that it is often just a business transaction, often but not always, fine, those that are not, take the blinkers off.

Why shouldn't he hold his head high, why shouldn't his girl hold her head high. You think he should cower and hide because he shouldn't have a right to be happy?

If he's happy and she is happy then who the hell is anyone else to pass judgment.

To me, he isn't the fool, he is happy and proud to be happy. You are the fool for trying to make yourself feel better at what you mistakenly see as misguided happiness.

You may feel better about yourself if you just take people as they are and enjoy in their happiness.

[vpi78]

Bit judgmental of you!

What exactly do you think is wrong with sex tourists?

And how come you don't consider yourself one?

He carries a Lonely Planet Guidebook and everyone knows that if you buy a Lonely Planet, you are a "traveler" , not a tourist.

So will we now have "sex travelers" ?

Lonely sex travelers

[HardenedSoul]

As far as the article writer's musings on farang men, she's right on several points but I think her lack of experience of one half of her heritage is obvious in some parts. Her generalization that Thai men are lazy, cheating drunks is seriously wide of the mark. It reads like grievances passed down from her mother or, perhaps, stories she's heard from other Thai women with a predilection for foreigners. The facts speak for themselves; if Thai women preferred farangs, there'd be a hell of a lot more "luk kreungs" hopping around.

As I said on another thread where the OP was seeking input with regard to impending nuptials with his Thai girlfriend, the overwhelming majority of Thai women would prefer a THAI man for obvious reasons including sharing same culture and language. Adolescent Thai girls don't fantasize about white or black men or pin posters of them on their walls; they have male idols who are distinctively Thai albeit covered with a couple of coats of Dulux Matt White emulsion.

From what I've seen, it is chiefly Thai women of a certain age who are, perhaps, raising one child or more alone that tend to give farang guys the green light since most financially-solid, respectable Thai men will be loathe to take on an over-ripe Thai woman and her spawn. Many farang guys, however, will.

Not true,

Thais definitely have a preference for white skin, narrower faces, and semi western looks.

(and of course tall people)

Almost all commercials I see here are with man or woman who are not typical Thais.

They are either very white Thais, or half Thai half Western.

The women magazines I saw are the same - very white models (relatively speaking..), and many who are definitely not pure Thais.

What exactly is it that you think is "not true"?

[cardholder]

I should point out that if in the marriage between the young lady and her old old man he is aware of the fact he is being used, thats fine.

He is using her, she is using him, great,

however what I think is pathetic is when they cannot see it, and they are clearly being used but walk around with there head held high, thinking everyone is looking at them like some god, when really people are laughing at them and thinking ohhh you poor misguided fool.

Those that are aware that it is often just a business transaction, often but not always, fine, those that are not, take the blinkers off.

Why shouldn't he hold his head high, why shouldn't his girl hold her head high. You think he should cower and hide because he shouldn't have a right to be happy?

If he's happy and she is happy then who the hell is anyone else to pass judgment.

To me, he isn't the fool, he is happy and proud to be happy. You are the fool for trying to make yourself feel better at what you mistakenly see as misguided happiness.

You may feel better about yourself if you just take people as they are and enjoy in their happiness.

I quite like the 'old fools'.

They are generally less judgemental of others and get on with their own lives.

[mataus101]

Well if you cant see that i clearly pointed out i was talking about the ones that are being used, so be it, I also pointed out those that are fooling themselves are pathetic.

please read it again all.

now ludditeman, be realistic, everyone knows what a sex tourist is, don't make up your own definitions.

clearly it is someone touring for the purpose of mainly sex only, so please talk straight and don't bullS#$t.

I am judging, so what, after all when you have a real relationship it's the relationships mentioned above that make people look at all in a bad light, it's those farang and thai liars that make the visa laws harder for legit people.

no love for liars here, look deeper at the damage they cause, both the men and the woman.

how many western woman date old men, cannot talk true here because many of you may well be doing it.

if my daughter bought home an old man, i would not allow it, perhaps you should all look at it that way, it's filthy

and im entitled to that opinion, and i'm sticking to it, its absolutly disgusting, could you imaging banging a 75 yr old woman, same thing.

[cardholder]

Well if you cant see that i clearly pointed out i was talking about the ones that are being used, so be it, I also pointed out those that are fooling themselves are pathetic.

please read it again all.

now ludditeman, be realistic, everyone knows what a sex tourist is, don't make up your own definitions.

clearly it is someone touring for the purpose of mainly sex only, so please talk straight and don't bullS#$t.

I am judging, so what, after all when you have a real relationship it's the relationships mentioned above that make people look at all in a bad light, it's those farang and thai liars that make the visa laws harder for legit people.

no love for liars here, look deeper at the damage they cause, both the men and the woman.

how many western woman date old men, cannot talk true here because many of you may well be doing it.

if my daughter bought home an old man, i would not allow it, perhaps you should all look at it that way, it's filthy

and im entitled to that opinion, and i'm sticking to it, its absolutly disgusting, could you imaging banging a 75 yr old woman, same thing.

You seem to be carrying quite a bit of baggage.