Truth, Lies And Reconciliation: Thai Opinion

[webfact]

STOPPAGE TIME

Truth, lies and reconciliation

Tulsathit Taptim

All truths have their price.

What caused Thailand's political conflict, which is still threatening to tear up the country, has been the subject of much debate, and the debate itself has aggravated the divide. The Truth for Reconciliation Commission of Thailand (TCRT) has an unenviable, if not ironic, task, because whatever "truth" it finds out, the first victim could be the already fragile peace. How can "truth" reconcile a country wrecked by different ideas of what went wrong?

The TRCT has achieved the easier part of its job. It has managed to maintain a large degree of neutrality despite the shift in political power after the July election. The panel's latest report includes proposals for both sides of the political divide. It calls for fair treatment of "political prisoners", most of them red-shirt members, and puts the share scandal committed by Thaksin Shinawatra as the root cause of the confrontation. A good balance has been struck although, under the circumstances, that may turn out to be in vain.

The toughest challenge for the TRCT and Thailand is how to make the rival camps accept the latest report in its totality. That's an enormous ask in a political climate where people only see what they want to see. This attitude will prevail in the face of the TRCT report. The awkward reactions from both ends of the polarity confirm that peace is probably as elusive as ever.

To sum up the report, it proposes leniency for criminal suspects or convicts believed to be driven by ideology. At the same time, it suggests that the infamous share concealment case of Thaksin should be reviewed. The share case was mentioned only briefly at the very end of the report, but the panel made very clear that its consequences - either pro- and anti-Thaksin - blended into a mega crisis that all but ruined Thailand.

Set up by the Abhisit government and now having to work under the Yingluck administration, the TRCT has not had an easy time. Its latest report reflects attempts to maintain integrity in difficult circumstances. Against all odds, the panel has put forward a balanced perspective. The bad news is that balanced perspectives have proved to be an endangered species that may need to mutate to survive.

As expected, the Yingluck government has been silent about the suggested revival of the Thaksin share case. The Democrats, meanwhile, have questioned the wisdom of decriminalising people who have allegedly committed serious criminal offences in the name of ideology. And if the TRCT's proposed leniency covers those who ordered and carried out crackdowns on red-shirt protesters, we all know where the opposition will come from.

Then there is one highly contentious issue that the TRCT leaves largely untouched. For good or bad reasons, the existence of the mysterious "men in black" and their role in the political violence last year escaped the panel's scrutiny. Both sides of the political divide have been accusing each other of masterminding the armed element - which many blame for triggering the bloodshed - and they will continue to do so.

Should the truth about the men in black be left untold for reconciliation's sake? The lingering ambiguity seems to serve nobody in particular, but it does help keep the political crisis from exploding anew. Whether or not that is good for political peace in the long run is hard to tell. While the TRCT proposes that protesters who blocked the streets or invaded public places be treated as politically-driven offenders, the men in black did far more than that. They carried assault rifles and were blamed for several deaths.

The commission is clear about its call for "transitional justice", without which reconciliation will be impossible. How the men in black, or their acts at least, will fit into the process will remain one of the biggest questions facing the whole of Thailand. After all, they represent the ugliest side of this crisis, showing everyone how far Thais will go to grab or maintain political power.

This crisis has been feeding on itself. In fact, it has been feeding on everything - words, actions, ideas and proposals. Truths have become lies and vice versa. And not that it matters, because nothing has been used with reconciliation in view, anyway. People believe whatever will galvanise their beliefs, and discard whatever may weaken them. What is worshipped by one side is demonised by the other. The nation may have gone too far down the divisive path to be jolted by truth into making a U-turn.

If truth is always the first casualty of war, peace and lies can be an odd couple. Which leaves the question of whether reconciliation and truth can really coexist.

-- The Nation 2011-12-14

[BigJohnnyBKK]

> puts the share scandal committed by Thaksin Shinawatra as the root cause of the confrontation

I'm afraid I'm not clear on what they're referring to here - and I implore those with strong feelings/preconceptions on these issues to please refrain from their usual flamewars and to try to address this topic with the objectivity it requires, to actually further our knowledge here? Of course true objectivity isn't possible, but could we please at least discuss things rationally rather than engaging in propaganda?

There is the fact that Thaksin avoid the asset declaration rules by distributing shares among his family and servants, but AFAIK all that was thoroughly processed years and years before the coup?

Another possibility is the fact that many Thais would consider simply the fact that such an important company be sold to foreigners, in itself this could be considered "scandalous".

It is fact that he sold his company to the Singapore outfit, and the law did not require individuals to pay any tax on such transactions. As far as I know there wasn't any allegation of anything about this being illegal.

Is it the case that the tax exemption law was in place before he took office, or is there an implication that he put it in place specifically to benefit himself?

Setting aside the legal issues for a moment - I believe these are actually of quite marginal relevance in Thailand's political/economic reality:

My between-the-lines reading of the situation, admittedly based on very little hard knowledge, is that Thaksin's big mistake was that he was perceived as being too greedy. Both regarding power and money, he tried to re-configure the system to solely benefit his own "elite" network, attempting to sideline the more traditional "elite" network from the spoils of power.

Also the fact that his power base was the traditionally disenfranchised upcountry peasant majority, spending government resources on populist schemes which they perceived improved their future opportunities. Both raising their hopes and causing them to realize in a nominal democracy they actually have some influence - a very dangerous trend for any elite not based on merit.

Therefore to me, the root cause of the conflict, is that the "traditional elite" network was actually being challenged, perhaps effectively for the first time in Thailand's history. Being a power-hungry demagogue isn't in itself a problem, but the fact that he didn't emerge from the usual power base - an uppity nouveau riche demagogue who didn't show the proper respect and consideration for the other sectors of the powers-that-be networks that really run the show here.

Is that a fair assessment of "the" root cause? I'm open to any and all rational feedback, even if it is based on subjective "gut feelings". Hard facts are of course preferred.

PS my recollection is that the major charge Thaksin ended up being convicted for in absentia was "abnormal wealth". Any clarifications on what that's all about would also be appreciated - abnormal in the sense of corrupt sources, or is simply being very-very-very-very wealthy here a crime in and of itself?

Edited December 14, 2011 by BigJohnnyBKK

[hanuman2543]

"...showing everyone how far Thais will go to grab or maintain political power." It is not limited to political power only. This behaviour we can see everyday, for example tourist scams, domestic violence, road rage etc. To secure an advantage for themselves, Thais will do whatever it takes.

"Therefore to me, the root cause of the conflict, is that the "traditional elite" network was actually being challenged, perhaps effectively for the first time in Thailand's history. Being a power-hungry demagogue isn't in itself a problem, but the fact that he didn't emerge from the usual power base - an uppity nouveau riche demagogue who didn't show the proper respect and consideration for the other sectors of the powers-that-be networks that really run the show here."

Good and valid point. Completely agree with you on that.

Edited December 14, 2011 by hanuman2543

[Just1Voice]

I just posted this on my FB page, but it might fit here just as well.

AMNESTY BILL – WRONG MOVE AT THE WRONG TIME.

Being an outsider, or non Thai, I have the advantage of looking at things without “color coded politics” playing any part in my thought processes or decisions. Of course it also means the average Thai will say that since I’m not Thai, I don’t understand “Thainess”. Yet, when I question them as to what “Thainess” is, they are unable to give me an answer. Or at least one that makes any rational sense.

My own personal opinion is that the Amnesty Bill, which is being promoted as a way for “national reconciliation”, is the wrong way for Thailand to proceed. This bill would grant amnesty for all political “crimes”, and selected types of others, committed since the coup, including the continued “immunity” of the coup makers. It would reverse court convictions of many politicians, including Thaksin himself, as well as Red Shirt, Yellow Shirts, and others who have been convicted, or who are awaiting trial on political charges. It would also grant “immunity” or “forgiveness” to those involved in the killings of 91 people during the demonstrations last year. All of this is wrong on so many levels.

You want true reconciliation? Bring in an international jurist body, similar to the one being used in Cambodia for the Khmer Rouge trials, and let them handle things. Instead of “reconciliation”, let’s try holding those responsible for their actions to face actual justice.

If this bill is passed it will negate many court decisions which, I agree, should be done in some areas as it’s common knowledge the court system here in Thailand is one of the worst you will find anywhere in regards to truly upholding the “law of the land”. But to give “blanket forgiveness” to those who have blatantly broken the law is wrong. Start with the coup makers themselves, as much of the political divisions in Thailand started with that. Hold them accountable for their actions, and then go from there.

Yellow shirts who took over and occupied Government House, and later the airport, should be tried for their actions, not to mention the damage they caused, both physically and monetarily, and if found guilty, sentenced to the full extent of the law.

Red shirts involved in the riots last year, as well as the burning of Central World, and other things, should be tried for their actions, as well as the damage they caused both physically and monetarily, and if found guilty, sentenced to the full extent of the law.

Political cases since the coup should be carefully reexamined by an outside, independent body to find out if the cases truly have merit, or were politically motivated.

I’m sorry, but in a truly civilized world and society, you simply cannot give “blanket forgiveness” to those who have clearly broken the law and call it a “path for reconciliation”. Doing so is merely the Thai way of saying “mai pen rai” or “som nom na”, and then going on with business as usual. It sends a message to the people saying they can do whatever they want, and not worry about it as eventually they will be forgiven for their actions and free to do them again.

You’re telling the coup makers, “Hey, no big deal, all is forgiven” despite their clear violation of the law that was in place at the time of their actions.

You’re telling politicians they are free to resume their corruption.

But worst of all, in my opinion, you are telling the families of the 91 dead, “Gee, sorry about your loss, but we’re not going look for, or prosecute those who were involved, so go on with your life.”

I feel that this law, if passed, will not bring about “national reconciliation” as is claimed, but will further deepen the divisions in Thai society, making things worse, not better, and that the end result could be more violence and bloodshed, further tearing apart this beautiful country.

****ADDITIONALLY****

If an outside, independent juristic body was ever brought into investigate "unusual wealth" among Thai politicians,government officials, top military and police figures, that the true findings would amount to astronomical billions among these people. Probably more than what is actually needed for repairs and financial support for all those affected by the flood.

But TIT, so we all know that's never gonna happen.

[sparebox2]

Sometime the truth hurts.

Sometime the truth needs to be hidden from the general public, for the best interest of most Thai people.

[whybother]

I just posted this on my FB page, but it might fit here just as well.

AMNESTY BILL – WRONG MOVE AT THE WRONG TIME.

Being an outsider, or non Thai, I have the advantage of looking at things without "color coded politics" playing any part in my thought processes or decisions. Of course it also means the average Thai will say that since I'm not Thai, I don't understand "Thainess". Yet, when I question them as to what "Thainess" is, they are unable to give me an answer. Or at least one that makes any rational sense.

My own personal opinion is that the Amnesty Bill, which is being promoted as a way for "national reconciliation", is the wrong way for Thailand to proceed. This bill would grant amnesty for all political "crimes", and selected types of others, committed since the coup, including the continued "immunity" of the coup makers. It would reverse court convictions of many politicians, including Thaksin himself, as well as Red Shirt, Yellow Shirts, and others who have been convicted, or who are awaiting trial on political charges. It would also grant "immunity" or "forgiveness" to those involved in the killings of 91 people during the demonstrations last year. All of this is wrong on so many levels.

You want true reconciliation? Bring in an international jurist body, similar to the one being used in Cambodia for the Khmer Rouge trials, and let them handle things. Instead of "reconciliation", let's try holding those responsible for their actions to face actual justice.

If this bill is passed it will negate many court decisions which, I agree, should be done in some areas as it's common knowledge the court system here in Thailand is one of the worst you will find anywhere in regards to truly upholding the "law of the land". But to give "blanket forgiveness" to those who have blatantly broken the law is wrong. Start with the coup makers themselves, as much of the political divisions in Thailand started with that. Hold them accountable for their actions, and then go from there.

Yellow shirts who took over and occupied Government House, and later the airport, should be tried for their actions, not to mention the damage they caused, both physically and monetarily, and if found guilty, sentenced to the full extent of the law.

Red shirts involved in the riots last year, as well as the burning of Central World, and other things, should be tried for their actions, as well as the damage they caused both physically and monetarily, and if found guilty, sentenced to the full extent of the law.

Political cases since the coup should be carefully reexamined by an outside, independent body to find out if the cases truly have merit, or were politically motivated.

I'm sorry, but in a truly civilized world and society, you simply cannot give "blanket forgiveness" to those who have clearly broken the law and call it a "path for reconciliation". Doing so is merely the Thai way of saying "mai pen rai" or "som nom na", and then going on with business as usual. It sends a message to the people saying they can do whatever they want, and not worry about it as eventually they will be forgiven for their actions and free to do them again.

You're telling the coup makers, "Hey, no big deal, all is forgiven" despite their clear violation of the law that was in place at the time of their actions.

You're telling politicians they are free to resume their corruption.

But worst of all, in my opinion, you are telling the families of the 91 dead, "Gee, sorry about your loss, but we're not going look for, or prosecute those who were involved, so go on with your life."

I feel that this law, if passed, will not bring about "national reconciliation" as is claimed, but will further deepen the divisions in Thai society, making things worse, not better, and that the end result could be more violence and bloodshed, further tearing apart this beautiful country.

****ADDITIONALLY****

If an outside, independent juristic body was ever brought into investigate "unusual wealth" among Thai politicians,government officials, top military and police figures, that the true findings would amount to astronomical billions among these people. Probably more than what is actually needed for repairs and financial support for all those affected by the flood.

But TIT, so we all know that's never gonna happen.

I generally agree with you, but why "start with the coup makers"? What about going back to some of the issues that started the protests and even brought about the coup?

[animatic]

a ) Truth

b ) Lies

and

c ) Utter Fantasies.

Which one drives the political dialogue of Thailand these days?

C ) most likely.

[hanuman2543]

I just posted this on my FB page, but it might fit here just as well.

AMNESTY BILL WRONG MOVE AT THE WRONG TIME.

Being an outsider, or non Thai, I have the advantage of looking at things without "color coded politics" playing any part in my thought processes or decisions. Of course it also means the average Thai will say that since I'm not Thai, I don't understand "Thainess". Yet, when I question them as to what "Thainess" is, they are unable to give me an answer. Or at least one that makes any rational sense.

My own personal opinion is that the Amnesty Bill, which is being promoted as a way for "national reconciliation", is the wrong way for Thailand to proceed. This bill would grant amnesty for all political "crimes", and selected types of others, committed since the coup, including the continued "immunity" of the coup makers. It would reverse court convictions of many politicians, including Thaksin himself, as well as Red Shirt, Yellow Shirts, and others who have been convicted, or who are awaiting trial on political charges. It would also grant "immunity" or "forgiveness" to those involved in the killings of 91 people during the demonstrations last year. All of this is wrong on so many levels.

You want true reconciliation? Bring in an international jurist body, similar to the one being used in Cambodia for the Khmer Rouge trials, and let them handle things. Instead of "reconciliation", let's try holding those responsible for their actions to face actual justice.

If this bill is passed it will negate many court decisions which, I agree, should be done in some areas as it's common knowledge the court system here in Thailand is one of the worst you will find anywhere in regards to truly upholding the "law of the land". But to give "blanket forgiveness" to those who have blatantly broken the law is wrong. Start with the coup makers themselves, as much of the political divisions in Thailand started with that. Hold them accountable for their actions, and then go from there.

Yellow shirts who took over and occupied Government House, and later the airport, should be tried for their actions, not to mention the damage they caused, both physically and monetarily, and if found guilty, sentenced to the full extent of the law.

Red shirts involved in the riots last year, as well as the burning of Central World, and other things, should be tried for their actions, as well as the damage they caused both physically and monetarily, and if found guilty, sentenced to the full extent of the law.

Political cases since the coup should be carefully reexamined by an outside, independent body to find out if the cases truly have merit, or were politically motivated.

I'm sorry, but in a truly civilized world and society, you simply cannot give "blanket forgiveness" to those who have clearly broken the law and call it a "path for reconciliation". Doing so is merely the Thai way of saying "mai pen rai" or "som nom na", and then going on with business as usual. It sends a message to the people saying they can do whatever they want, and not worry about it as eventually they will be forgiven for their actions and free to do them again.

You're telling the coup makers, "Hey, no big deal, all is forgiven" despite their clear violation of the law that was in place at the time of their actions.

You're telling politicians they are free to resume their corruption.

But worst of all, in my opinion, you are telling the families of the 91 dead, "Gee, sorry about your loss, but we're not going look for, or prosecute those who were involved, so go on with your life."

I feel that this law, if passed, will not bring about "national reconciliation" as is claimed, but will further deepen the divisions in Thai society, making things worse, not better, and that the end result could be more violence and bloodshed, further tearing apart this beautiful country.

****ADDITIONALLY****

If an outside, independent juristic body was ever brought into investigate "unusual wealth" among Thai politicians,government officials, top military and police figures, that the true findings would amount to astronomical billions among these people. Probably more than what is actually needed for repairs and financial support for all those affected by the flood.

But TIT, so we all know that's never gonna happen.

Great post and so true what you wrote. Being responsible and punished for something is not appreciated in Thailand. "Thainess, krieng jai, bun kun" are excuses for lies, cheating, extortion, blackmail and corruption and earning the fruits of it without any consequences.

Edited December 14, 2011 by hanuman2543

[Orac]

> puts the share scandal committed by Thaksin Shinawatra as the root cause of the confrontation

I'm afraid I'm not clear on what they're referring to here - and I implore those with strong feelings/preconceptions on these issues to please refrain from their usual flamewars and to try to address this topic with the objectivity it requires, to actually further our knowledge here? Of course true objectivity isn't possible, but could we please at least discuss things rationally rather than engaging in propaganda?

There is the fact that Thaksin avoid the asset declaration rules by distributing shares among his family and servants, but AFAIK all that was thoroughly processed years and years before the coup?

Another possibility is the fact that many Thais would consider simply the fact that such an important company be sold to foreigners, in itself this could be considered "scandalous".

It is fact that he sold his company to the Singapore outfit, and the law did not require individuals to pay any tax on such transactions. As far as I know there wasn't any allegation of anything about this being illegal.

Is it the case that the tax exemption law was in place before he took office, or is there an implication that he put it in place specifically to benefit himself?

Setting aside the legal issues for a moment - I believe these are actually of quite marginal relevance in Thailand's political/economic reality:

My between-the-lines reading of the situation, admittedly based on very little hard knowledge, is that Thaksin's big mistake was that he was perceived as being too greedy. Both regarding power and money, he tried to re-configure the system to solely benefit his own "elite" network, attempting to sideline the more traditional "elite" network from the spoils of power.

Also the fact that his power base was the traditionally disenfranchised upcountry peasant majority, spending government resources on populist schemes which they perceived improved their future opportunities. Both raising their hopes and causing them to realize in a nominal democracy they actually have some influence - a very dangerous trend for any elite not based on merit.

Therefore to me, the root cause of the conflict, is that the "traditional elite" network was actually being challenged, perhaps effectively for the first time in Thailand's history. Being a power-hungry demagogue isn't in itself a problem, but the fact that he didn't emerge from the usual power base - an uppity nouveau riche demagogue who didn't show the proper respect and consideration for the other sectors of the powers-that-be networks that really run the show here.

Is that a fair assessment of "the" root cause? I'm open to any and all rational feedback, even if it is based on subjective "gut feelings". Hard facts are of course preferred.

PS my recollection is that the major charge Thaksin ended up being convicted for in absentia was "abnormal wealth". Any clarifications on what that's all about would also be appreciated - abnormal in the sense of corrupt sources, or is simply being very-very-very-very wealthy here a crime in and of itself?

The report is here

and is the last bit that is being refered to. Their issue was with the verdict and not the evidence as he was found guilty by 7 votes to 6 with two abstentions however these abstentions were counted as not guilty.

[DocN]

Sometime the truth hurts.

Sometime the truth needs to be hidden from the general public, for the best interest of most Thai people.

Wow!

You really lost it!

Oh by the way no "the good coup" this time?

[whybother]

Sometime the truth hurts.

Sometime the truth needs to be hidden from the general public, for the best interest of most Thai people.

Wow!

You really lost it!

Oh by the way no "the good coup" this time?

I don't think he ever found it.

[DocN]

Sometime the truth hurts.

Sometime the truth needs to be hidden from the general public, for the best interest of most Thai people.

Wow!

You really lost it!

Oh by the way no "the good coup" this time?

I don't think he ever found it.