Should Son Use Thai Or Us Passport When Entering?

[Bob102]

My Thai wife, 3-year old son and I (I am American) will be visiting Thailand for two and a half weeks during the Christmas/New Year holiday. My son was born in Thailand and has duel citizenship with both US and Thai passports. We moved to the US when our son was just a year and a half old and have lived here now for almost two years. Throughout our marriage we've always had problems, i.e. bickering, arguments, etc... but a few weeks ago she mentioned divorce. We both insist on fighting to the bitter end for full custody of our son and so we've since called a truce. We've been planning on visiting Thailand for a while now and as our departure date approaches I am getting a little nervous. We've been getting along fine now and I don't think she would actually try to keep our son in Thailand, but I just want to play this safe just in case.

When we left Thailand almost two years ago I remember that our son exited Thailand and entered the US with his American passport (not sure if this is relevant). I am wondering if it matters which passport he should use to ensure his return to the US should my wife try something devious, like keeping him in Thailand. I guess my reasoning is that if he uses his US passport he will be issued a tourist visa upon arrival which limits the amount of time he can stay in Thailand. However, because he has dual citizenship does this mean that he can reside in either Thailand or the US regardless of which passport he uses to enter the country?

[MikeyIdea]

Which passport your son enter Thailand on is not relevant should the mother decide to keep your son here in Thailand, either one and it doesn't matter one bit for the mother

Forget the American passport and the American citizenship your son has, it is irrelevant to a Thai custody battle about a Thai child fought in Thailand. The million dollar question is: Do you have custody according to Thai law or does the mother have sole custody here?

Did you register a marriage in Thailand? If you didn't then everybody in Thailand will consider the mother as sole custodian until either a marriage is registered or a court orders.

If you are married in the US, then *theoretically*, yes, you have shared custody but I fail to find any practical importance in that as police, amphur, authorities, you name it, will not put any weight on a western marriage certificate written in a foreign language. If you have a western marriage, then that will matter in court of course, or after it has been properly registered in Thailand

Edited December 15, 2011 by MikeyIdea

[MikeyIdea]

"I am wondering if it matters which passport he should use to ensure his return to the US should my wife try something devious like keeping him in Thailand"

If the mother decides to keep your son in Thailand, then that is her right according to Thai law so you would not be able to fight that legally

A parent can veto that another parent takes a Thai child out of Thailand until the child is so old that her own saying matters very much. There is no written age but a Juvenile court judge I talked to nodded positively when I suggested at least 15 years old. I understand 15 to 18 depending on situation and how much the other parent fights it of course. The rule apply both ways without any bias against westerners - A western parent can equally easily veto a Thai parent from bringing the child out of Thailand

The Thai Juvenile court system is good though, with no bias against fathers or westerners so you would get a fair trial here should the mother decide to keep the child in Thailand - In Thailand if the parents can't agree on anything else

"if he uses his US passport he will be issued a tourist visa upon arrival which limits the amount of time he can stay in Thailand"

No, your child is Thai and he can stay as long as he wants in Thailand

I don't want to paint the devil on the wall but fact is that you have no case according to Thai law if the mother decides to keep the child in Thailand, if you think that is likely to happen, then perhaps you should not allow child to go to Thailand and hide his passport(s)

[WebBangkok]

Yes well if she decides to leave you while you're in Thailand at the time, you have nothing going for you, if sh went to Thailand alone with him and didnt come back is another story.

I believe while in Thailand if she decides to divorce you then, you have no right to take him out of the country without her consent. It will just be like if you guys were in the US and one day your wife decides to take him to Thailand for good without you consent.

The wife bringing up divorce and then you all going to Thailand shortly after could be a plot to keep the child. But you could still win in court.

Its very hard to say really as we dont know your past, financial etc.

[ludditeman]

If you allow him to enter Thailand with his mother, there is a good chance he will never leave. (passport not important)

If you stay in America with the mother, she will likely fleece you in the American divorce courts.

She can't take him out of America without your permission, you can't take him out of Thailand without her permission.

Tough decision, lose son or lose assets?

Choose your ground for the battle.

Edited December 20, 2011 by ludditeman

[IMA_FARANG]

Bob102:

In the specific case you mentioned it won't make any difference.

That is because, as I understand your post, you're son is only 3 years old.

If that is the case, then he is to young and will be considered as dependent on his mother and father, and even if he enters on his U.S. passport and does not leave for several years....he will not be subject to overstay....because of his age and the presumption he is to young to be able to understand the immigration laws.

I may be wrong, but I believe that the Thai immigration will exempt anyone below the age of 15 years from overstay just for that reason.

In general however, a person having dual U.S. and Thai citenship and passports should:

Exit and re-enter the U.S. usimg their U.S. passport

and

Exit and re-enter Thailand using their Thai passport.

That usually avoids most of the problems with immigration at both ends of the journey.

Edited December 21, 2011 by IMA_FARANG

[lopburi3]

"if he uses his US passport he will be issued a tourist visa upon arrival which limits the amount of time he can stay in Thailand"

No, your child is Thai and he can stay as long as he wants in Thailand

I may be wrong, but I believe that the Thai immigration will exempt anyone below the age of 15 years from overstay just for that reason.

Entry on US passport will result in overstay if he does not leave in the allowed period of time - but extension of stay can easily be obtained. Although there would not be any fine paid under current policy the passport would be marked as overstay on departure.

[stardancer]

If your relationship is not rock solid the stay away from thailand. She has made the threat of divorce so try saying you will visit thailand 2013. I bet you will get a huge reaction.

You will loose your child no mater what passport it enters on.

Edited December 30, 2011 by stardancer

[Langsuan Man]

See this thread to see what can happen, and this poster has a custody agreement that appears to be pretty much useless in Thailand

http://www.thaivisa....__fromsearch__1

[wayned]

After reading Lansuan Man's post, I would immediately burn his passports!