Paradise Turns To Hell When You Learn The Thai Language

[lovetotravel]

I love everything in Thailand except for the overpopulation of rude prejudiced obnoxious people

U should try out Hong Kong

Or anywhere in China!

[pauljones]

Good with the bad.. it all a balance.. what did you really expect those kids in the internet cafe to say... what if it was a thai guy who went into an internet cafe on western outskirts of Sydney....... I daresay he'd be lucky to come out in one piece....

Very Good point - 2 weeks before we left the UK my son - 13 - was beaten up in a racially motivated attack.

This was in a small town in South Oxfordshire where he had lived and gone to school all of his young life.

Amongst bruises and a few cuts he also had the word ' Paki C*unt' scrawled on his face.

He looks more European than Thai - but is no doubt different to the usual kids , and different isn't appreciated in the UK these days.

The fact we had decided to move away from the UK was not due to this, but I feared this sort of incident would happen sooner than later.

In our village in Isaan, a few days after arriving, my son and I were walking through and came across a bunch of 10-15 year olds playing football.

We were called 'Baaksida' and a few other choice words were flung in our direction.

My son looked at me and said ' Bloody hell Dad, can we go to a place that I DO fit in ? '

I guess the difference is that these kids' parents were then spoken to by my wife - and now my son joins in ( with the football, not the 'Baaksida chants ' )

In the last month or so my son has grown up a lot, I'm proud of him and ashamed of my own Country.

Not sure it's racism or nationalism but those kids behavior reinforces the OPs post.

Thais are brought up to respect, except when it comes to outsiders.

[meatboy]

after almost 28years i have never been in the same situations as the op,and i dont want to speak thai mainly for some of the reasons the op states.my wife spoke perfect english when i met her so there was no need for me to learn more than what i can speak and understand.there is not much in the way the op states that makes me angry,what does get my back up is the ignorant people that stare at you with that arrogant look and the wife hates it as well.the op says he has almost been murdered if that is the case he had better leave and not come back.

[seedy]

The bottom line is you have to put up with it, Its their Country.

I agree. It only becomes a problem if you let it become one.

[monty1412]

I love everything in Thailand except for the overpopulation of rude prejudiced obnoxious people

U should try out Hong Kong

Or anywhere in China!

Hve to agree here, spent 5 years in Shanghai and found the chinese to be the rudest folks of all. Plus questionable sanitary habits and general lack of basic personal space. Even last month on a train exiting the train I had to square the shoulders and almost rugby charge in order to not get pushed over by the hotdes of folks streaming in the doors for the last seat , of ourse not waiting for those who wanted to exit to do so.

[jaideeguy]

As with most of us, the 'rose colored glasses' begin to fade after a while.

re: speaking the language, after 10+ yrs, i give up......reason is I'm tone deaf and tounge paralized and know that the highest level of Thai that I will ever learn is kindergarden level and when the Thais ask me if I speak Thai, [the Thai wife taught me this] I just say 'Gnu Gnu, Pla Pla', which is thai slang for 'a little bit, so better be careful what you say about me'.

[fritter1970]

The bottom line is you have to put up with it, Its their Country.

I agree. It only becomes a problem if you let it become one.

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out

-- Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out

-- Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out

-- Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me

-- and there was no one left to speak for me.

[JRinger]

25 years here, married 20 years and can't speak or understand a word of Thai. Life is great.

Not sure why you're congratulating yourself. 25 years and can't speak or understand a word of Thai?

Pretty pathetic in my opinion.

[IMA_FARANG]

O.K. so when you first arrived you had a set of beautiful rose-colored glasses and everything looked so pretty then.

Now those glasses are broken and all you have is that set of dirty and grimy dark colored glasses that makes everything look dirty to you.

When you grow up, and stop feeling sorry for yourself, maybe you will realise that in both cases what you thought you saw was not reality, but a reflection of what you felt (or feel now, if that's the case) in your own mind.

Not to be rude...but the realisation that the world everyone has to live in is neither paradise or hell...but just what YOU make of it.

That's called maturity.

And if it's helps you...I've also seen it both ways...and I had to learn myself that both views are not real, but are only dellusions generated by your own mind.

So, grow up, and make your own percieved reality from what is available.

Tend your own garden, and grow your own flowers.

I learned that from Buddhisim...but you can pick your own teacher-of-choice in your own life.

End of (boring) sermon from an old man.

[daoyai]

As with most of us, the 'rose colored glasses' begin to fade after a while.

re: speaking the language, after 10+ yrs, i give up......reason is I'm tone deaf and tounge paralized and know that the highest level of Thai that I will ever learn is kindergarden level and when the Thais ask me if I speak Thai, [the Thai wife taught me this] I just say 'Gnu Gnu, Pla Pla', which is thai slang for 'a little bit, so better be careful what you say about me'.

Funny you would say that as "nguu" is often the hardest Thai words for westerners to pronounce.

[NewlyMintedThai]

If you think any place is a paradise your fantasy will always be shattered by something. It's only a matter of time.

[Berkshire]

Same here.

I speak Thai and I love the place the OP must have personal problems.

Ditto. DiabloJoe, aka the OP, must be a real piece of work to continually be treated this way. Perhaps one day he will realize that it was HIM all along. You get what you give and that's how it should be.

[GuestHouse]

I don't draw a distinction between Total Negativity about Thailand/Thais and Total Positivity about Thailand/Thais- they are both rooted in a self delusion.

That said, I think there are some very likely causes for the OP's change of mind and the situations he reports finding himself in.

We have all of us been through the honeymoon period in Thailand, I'm guessing that for most people this lasts between three and six months, individual circumstances and personality might increase or decrease the length of the honeymoon but we all nevertheless go through it.

Coming out the other side we are, hopefully, wiser and hopefully able to take a balanced view of Thailand, Thai people and our life here.

Some are not.

I think too that we have most of us been in situations were we understand (perhaps with hindsight) that we really should not have been there. I certainly have.

These mostly arise from not being able to read a situation - Wandering around with our bliss filled honeymoon head on greatly increases the chances that we are not reading situations correctly.

These things are, I suspect, at the heart of the OPs problems - The dream is over, the disillusion is as bitter as the honeymoon was sweet .

It all appears to have been nothing more than a head game - which in reality it was, but we all played that game and there was only ever one player at the table.

As for those situations the OP kept finding himself in, I think misreading situations and people is almost all the reason these things happen.

I think part of the problem we, as foreigners, seek an 'in' into Thai society and Thai friendships, for most foreigners this means meeting people around tourist industry, hotels, bars etc.

Wandering down a back street into that 'authentic Thai bar' where you are the only foreigner might seem to have been a door into 'Thailand' but it is more likely where Thai people go to have some Thai time away from foreigners.

My advice to the OP would be to take some time out, and critically think about his own mindset and how/where he interacts with Thai people.

On a more serious note the best advice I can give for his personal safety is - If you ever escape a dangerous situation - Don't ever go back to it.

[Berkshire]

25 years here, married 20 years and can't speak or understand a word of Thai. Life is great.

Not sure why you're congratulating yourself. 25 years and can't speak or understand a word of Thai?

Pretty pathetic in my opinion.

I always wondered how these guys can hang around their spouse's family, listen to the conversations, not understand a word, and be happy about it. His wife could bring an inflatable doll in his place to family functions and no one would know the difference. To each his own, I suppose.

[JRinger]

25 years here, married 20 years and can't speak or understand a word of Thai. Life is great.

Not sure why you're congratulating yourself. 25 years and can't speak or understand a word of Thai?

Pretty pathetic in my opinion.

I always wondered how these guys can hang around their spouse's family, listen to the conversations, not understand a word, and be happy about it. His wife could bring an inflatable doll in his place to family functions and no one would know the difference. To each his own, I suppose.

you know what they say, "Ignorance is Bliss".

[poanoi]

@DiabloJoe

You can't just buy love/affection/friendship,

Also understand that the insults is extortion in order to extract money/tip.

So in order to get the leeches/fake friends off your back, respond in kind.

What worked well enough for me was to reply in each and every case:

No sucky sucky, No tip. (mai gkin koay, mai tip)

After about half a year, they already knew the reply and so didn't bother me any more,

and if they did, or any new perpetrator made an attempt, i would simply remind of what it takes to get five dollah.

Now you are set to make genuine friendship, my current gf told me a reason she picked me was that it was clear that i wouldn't be paying a salary, we are equals.

And screw any and all leeches, or at least get them to do anything in return for your hard earned money,

you are better off alone.

Edited December 17, 2011 by poanoi

[JRinger]

@DiabloJoe

You can't just buy love/affection/friendship,

Also understand that the insults is extortion in order to extract money/tip.

So in order to get the leeches/fake friends off your back, respond in kind.

What worked well enough for me was to reply in each and every case:

No sucky sucky, No tip. (mai gkin koay, mai tip)

After about half a year, they already knew the reply and so didn't bother me any more,

and if they did, or any new perpetrator made an attempt, i would simply remind of what it takes to get five dollah.

Now you are set to make genuine friendship, my current gf told me a reason she picked me was that it was clear that i wouldn't be paying a salary, we are equals.

And screw any and all leeches, or at least get them to do anything in return for your hard earned money,

you are better off alone.

maybe your reply worked in the bar but guaranteed to get you hurt elsewhere in the country. and I personally think your post is BS.

[poanoi]

No it worked wherever i got stalked by the smiling insults,

what part do you think is BS more specifically ?

Edited December 17, 2011 by poanoi

[xthAi76s]

Good with the bad.. it all a balance.. what did you really expect those kids in the internet cafe to say... what if it was a thai guy who went into an internet cafe on western outskirts of Sydney....... I daresay he'd be lucky to come out in one piece....

Very Good point - 2 weeks before we left the UK my son - 13 - was beaten up in a racially motivated attack.

This was in a small town in South Oxfordshire where he had lived and gone to school all of his young life.

Amongst bruises and a few cuts he also had the word ' Paki C*unt' scrawled on his face.

He looks more European than Thai - but is no doubt different to the usual kids , and different isn't appreciated in the UK these days.

The fact we had decided to move away from the UK was not due to this, but I feared this sort of incident would happen sooner than later.

In our village in Isaan, a few days after arriving, my son and I were walking through and came across a bunch of 10-15 year olds playing football.

We were called 'Baaksida' and a few other choice words were flung in our direction.

My son looked at me and said ' Bloody hell Dad, can we go to a place that I DO fit in ? '

I guess the difference is that these kids' parents were then spoken to by my wife - and now my son joins in ( with the football, not the 'Baaksida chants ' )

In the last month or so my son has grown up a lot, I'm proud of him and ashamed of my own Country.

Not sure it's racism or nationalism but those kids behavior reinforces the OPs post.

Thais are brought up to respect, except when it comes to outsiders.

try this again

Edited December 17, 2011 by ThailandMan

[DaamNaam]

Get over it ( The Eagles ), that is the right track for you.

[xthAi76s]

Good with the bad.. it all a balance.. what did you really expect those kids in the internet cafe to say... what if it was a thai guy who went into an internet cafe on western outskirts of Sydney....... I daresay he'd be lucky to come out in one piece....

Very Good point - 2 weeks before we left the UK my son - 13 - was beaten up in a racially motivated attack.

This was in a small town in South Oxfordshire where he had lived and gone to school all of his young life.

Amongst bruises and a few cuts he also had the word ' Paki C*unt' scrawled on his face.

He looks more European than Thai - but is no doubt different to the usual kids , and different isn't appreciated in the UK these days.

The fact we had decided to move away from the UK was not due to this, but I feared this sort of incident would happen sooner than later.

In our village in Isaan, a few days after arriving, my son and I were walking through and came across a bunch of 10-15 year olds playing football.

We were called 'Baaksida' and a few other choice words were flung in our direction.

My son looked at me and said ' Bloody hell Dad, can we go to a place that I DO fit in ? '

I guess the difference is that these kids' parents were then spoken to by my wife - and now my son joins in ( with the football, not the 'Baaksida chants ' )

In the last month or so my son has grown up a lot, I'm proud of him and ashamed of my own Country.

Not sure it's racism or nationalism but those kids behavior reinforces the OPs post.

Thais are brought up to respect, except when it comes to outsiders.

I agree RE respect.

I just finished reading a book that discussed this type of thing. The book argues that Thais operate in 3 social circles of increasing indifference. They are, in order: family circle, cautious circle and selfish circle.

As foreigners, we are by definition perpetually outsiders and thus are generally part of the Thai selfish circle. Just the way it is. But hey, don't worry. This is true all over the world. Happens to immigrants in any country. Even the ultra polite Japanese continue to have problems with Korean (and other) immigrants in Japan.

Take a peek at: http://www.thingsasi...ies-photos/2704

From the link above ...

"For example, why can such an otherwise gentle and non-confrontational people be such aggressive drivers? How can they be so compassionate in certain circumstances and so callous in others? And why do English-speaking Thais in the company of an English-speaking foreigner nevertheless insist on speaking Thai?"

The authors argue that the answers to the first two questions depend upon what they call the three circles of Thai social interactions: the Family, Cautious, and Selfish Circles respectively. Basically the list proceeds in ascending order of indifference. The guy cutting you off on the road, or cutting in front of you in a queue, calculates that he will probably never encounter you again and can therefore afford to be assertive."

Best thing I ever learned how to do was not to take things here to seriously unless I have to. Y'know, if you don't stand to lose anything, don't worry about people. There are too many of them on Earth to worry about! Just enjoy your life. You can give yourself a better chance by going by the Thai system of social etiquette. If you are overweight, you can lose weight. If your clothes are too casual, you can get some that make you look 'more important'. You can shave and wear some gold etc. The majority of Thais are pretty easy to fool (I mean make happy). Once you follow all the rules, many being unable to think outside the 'box' and being unable/disinterested to judge people on more than appearance, you've got most of them. They will think you are great. They may still talk poorly of you though. But, at least at that point you've lost weight and dress better which will probably net you some other benefits anyway.

Good luck, and don't worry. Oh, don't lend people money in ANY COUNTRY!

Edited December 17, 2011 by ThailandMan

[poanoi]

Good luck, and don't worry. Oh, don't lend people money in ANY COUNTRY!

+ at least a million, i've learned this the hard way, to make things worse i was also a really slow learner

[mijan24]

@DiabloJoe

You can't just buy love/affection/friendship,

Also understand that the insults is extortion in order to extract money/tip.

So in order to get the leeches/fake friends off your back, respond in kind.

What worked well enough for me was to reply in each and every case:

No sucky sucky, No tip. (mai gkin koay, mai tip)

After about half a year, they already knew the reply and so didn't bother me any more,

and if they did, or any new perpetrator made an attempt, i would simply remind of what it takes to get five dollah.

Now you are set to make genuine friendship, my current gf told me a reason she picked me was that it was clear that i wouldn't be paying a salary, we are equals.

And screw any and all leeches, or at least get them to do anything in return for your hard earned money,

you are better off alone.

maybe your reply worked in the bar but guaranteed to get you hurt elsewhere in the country. and I personally think your post is BS.

No it worked wherever i got stalked by the smiling insults,

what part do you think is BS more specifically ?

Agree the Thai you quote says it all -"Bar Thai" and maybe they the "bar girls" listen to your nonsense no way deep down do they accept it (more likely thinking "Creepy Farang again") and who would blame them for harbouring such thought Simple answer Not Me for one.

Why do I say "Bar Thai" - simply from your translation ( to eat is a generalised term not suited to individual actions such as drink or suckle etc) and why "Bar" once again only a "bar girl" would put up with such crap I am sure a Waitress and patrons of a simple beer/sports bar would give you the heave ho in quick time.

I 2nd the BS comment.

[bermondburi]

paradise ain't perfect.

IMO Thais aren't out to get the foreigner in particlular , in fact they are not even racist, they will cheat and lie to Thais all day long too if given the oppurtunity. I've seen this myself with the recent floods and some of the extortionate rates boats etc were charging people coz they knew that people had no choice. It's just that foreigners are an easier target ( if you let yourself become one ) and the comebacks may be less ( shortstay people going back to their own country etc no time to follow it up ). Regarding knowing Thai and understanding people. I think Thais are just as rude about other Thais as they are foreigners. If they talk about you blatantly in front of you , talk back. Don't just sit there and take it and moan about it on an internet forum. DON'T BE A VICTIM ! I quite enjoy coming up with a witty comeback and seeing them look small in front of their mates. And you have to ask yourself , who gives a fuc_k really. AS someone else said, surround yourself with your family ( hopefully a good one ). That's why family is so important to Thais in Thailand, coz they know perfectly well that you cant trust any other mofo out there !

job done, my two baht for the day.

[bermondburi]

I learnt Thai and now it's great being able to take the p*ss out of Thai people in their own language

that's what I'm talknig about.

[bermondburi]

baaksida?

an isaan farrang

[jaideeguy]

I used to get a little paranoid {?] when I heard Thais speaking and using the word falang.....thinking they were talking stink about me......now, I don't give a <deleted>.....I guess that I've lost what little 'face' that I once had and now feel a lot more free. Let then say what they want.....it's mostly ignorant small talk anyway.

[JRinger]

No it worked wherever i got stalked by the smiling insults,

what part do you think is BS more specifically ?

ok, I'll be more specific, All of it

[poanoi]

The short answer is: insult back and under no circumstance give in to the extortion, they'll get the hint.

I know this by experience unlike the naysayers

[ludditeman]

Agree the Thai you quote says it all -"Bar Thai" and maybe they the "bar girls" listen to your nonsense no way deep down do they accept it (more likely thinking "Creepy Farang again") and who would blame them for harbouring such thought Simple answer Not Me for one.

Why do I say "Bar Thai" - simply from your translation ( to eat is a generalised term not suited to individual actions such as drink or suckle etc) and why "Bar" once again only a "bar girl" would put up with such crap I am sure a Waitress and patrons of a simple beer/sports bar would give you the heave ho in quick time.

If I might just point out, your knowledge of Thai appears to be poor.

'soup koy' is the generally used term (smoke, as in Soup buree)

Almost everyone says 'gin' for eat or drink, 'duam' is rarely used except in speech.

Bar girls speak 'Engrish' not Thai.