Topic Of Relevance.

[robsamui]

Sad to see the fatality rate is near 10% of accidents....probably more if you count those who die after.

In the west it is less. When I had my accident in australia it took 14 minutes for the ambulance with fully trained people to arrive...seemed like an hour. Here it will take much longer and the people who come are not trained like the fantastic people that helped me.

Pays to be careful out there guys.

I'd be interested in seeing how Thailand stacks up against other countries that use motorbikes as a main form of transportation. Having a fender bender between cars is unlikely to hurt anyone. Hit a bike and you coudl kill someone.

It occurred to me that this is a highly significant factor. There are no statistics as to what percentage of Samui's registered residents have a motorbike as their means of daily travel. At an educated guess - 95% of them, including ones who are aged 10 years old. Along with a mobile phone some form of transport is a MUST.

If there are even 30,000 motorbikes on Samui - not counting the thousands of rental motorbikes - then that's an immediate recipe for disaster given how many kilometres of road there is. And even more so in a place where there are no enforced laws relating to age, driving licences, road worthiness of the bike, speed, road discipline, number of people on one bike, ridiculously-dangerous loads (like 60-foot bamboo poles between 2 bikes) driving on the wrong side of the road, not using lights at night, not wearing helmets, sobriety or lack of, ownership, registration, tax, insurance . . . the list is never ending . . .

. . . but I'd rather be here than in Europe, where a spot of rust on your fender will get you stopped and fined!

R

I simply don't understand why the helmet rule is not more rigourously policed as it is in Phuket. Almost everyone uses a helmet there.

It seems to be enforced everywhere on the mainland full stop. The police don't need special instructions on a particular day to go out mob-handed and stop everyone in sight just for the afternoon. In the normal course of their business, just driving around in ones or twos every day, they seem to stop anyone who's not wearing a helmet. I don't understand why not either.

But then I also don't understand why taxis on Samui can get away with openly flaunting the law of the land and refusing to operate without a meter . . .

R

Edited December 19, 2011 by robsamui

[smokie36]

It seems to be enforced everywhere on the mainland full stop. The police don't need special instructions on a particular day to go out mob-handed and stop everyone in sight just for the afternoon. In the normal course of their business, just driving around in ones or twos every day, they seem to stop anyone who's not wearing a helmet. I don't understand why not either.

But then I also don't understand why taxis on Samui can get away with openly flaunting the law of the land and refusing to operate without a meter . . .

R

It cost me 193 Baht in a taxi from Sukhumvit Soi 23 to the airport recently. It would cost me double that from Samui airport to Chaweng. Absolute madness!

Edit: That's if I walked out of the airport and stood waiting for a taxi to flag down.....otherwise probable three times as much.

Edited December 20, 2011 by smokie36

[insertmembernamehere]

As I said, the reliability of any community magazine or newspaper is weak. All manner of misinterpretation could have gone on -- confusing injuries with deaths, mixing figures from Surathani Province, or simply sensationalizing. On the other hand, this old periodical could be right, but, any researcher knows that getting to the truth is getting to the source. What source material -- the "official" figures -- is available? All these figures must be in some office somewhere and if a newspaper allegedly had easy access to them for publication, it stands to reason that they still exist and that some sort of accounting has been taking place in the meantime.

If Samui is twice as deadly a road area than Afghanistan, this information ought to be forwarded to the BBC or CNN for serious reporting (although the BBC's correspondents for Thailand are execrable). In fact, it would make a great feature piece in any travel magazine that was not just ad shill.

An expose on the lack of helmet enforcement, the ability to rent a bike without any licence, the unbelievable condition of the roads here and mysterious "under-reporting" of fatalities, to name just the main ones would be a cracker.

By the way, a long time ago, someone relayed an urban myth to me about Samui whereby the hospitals were supposed to be in cahoots with the invisible movers and shakers to NOT have the roads repaired. Any conspiracy theorists out there?

[flare]

The old Community Magazine/Newspaper never reported anything like 30 road deaths per month that I can recall- during a high season month it was usually 6-8 deaths (sometimes with one or two foreigners among them, though they were most often young Thai males with 'late at night' used as a euphemism for 'drunk'- they were almost always reported as not wearing a helmet- during a low season month it might have been 4-6)- there may well have been greater numbers of actual fatalities (perhaps chalked up to other causes or involving undocumented workers), but the actual reported number was never that high- I honestly can't remember ever seeing it as high as 10.

I couldn't find any old links- if I'm wrong and anyone has some verification, please post a link.

Edited December 20, 2011 by flare

[robsamui]

The old Community Magazine/Newspaper never reported anything like 30 road deaths per month that I can recall- during a high season month it was usually 6-8 deaths (sometimes with one or two foreigners among them, though they were most often young Thai males with 'late at night' used as a euphemism for 'drunk'- they were almost always reported as not wearing a helmet- during a low season month it might have been 4-6)- there may well have been greater numbers of actual fatalities (perhaps chalked up to other causes or involving undocumented workers), but the actual reported number was never that high- I honestly can't remember ever seeing it as high as 10.

I couldn't find any old links- if I'm wrong and anyone has some verification, please post a link.

Well I have to admit that I'm relying on memory here - but it's a very strong memory because, all those years ago when I first came here, I was horrified by how many deaths there were on the roads.

Going through old emails and magazines in boxes has only helped partially. My old saved emails only begin in 2004 (prior to that I was on Hotmail) so I have no record of earlier than 2004. What I do have are copies of Community mag going back to 2005. I also have a copy of an email I wrote to them on this subject which was not replied to.

So I can make some corrections to my recall here:

You are correct in saying that Community never reported 30 deaths per month - that was why I mailed them, in fact, to ask why the statistics had changed. The 3 copies from 2005 (when the mag began) record the same rate of deaths as today ie between 2 and 7. I recalled this inaccurately - apologies.

And I come back to my original contention - somewhere between 2000 and 2005 the number of deaths as stated each month by the police dropped dramatically. I can provide no hard facts to back this as I can't even remember what monthly publications there were back in this period or have retained any record of my previous emails with said mag relating to all this.

This confused little island has been swamped off its feet in the last decade, even to the point that nobody in authority here at government level has any idea of how many people are actually on the island in any given week/month or are even living here full time. (There appears to be no interest in 'aliens' at all, only Thai people, and no figures recording how many farangs are either living or working here ...)

But let's work it out on the official figures as released by the local government (yes I know they are not accurate but they are at least tangible and can be held accountable.)

55,000 registered inhabitants, an average of 3 who die every month.

Officially and according to the government figures that's a roadkill rate of 700 per million inhabitants per year.

R

Edited December 20, 2011 by robsamui

[cmsally]

What struck me in the article was this:

"the motorbike’s engine size or the failure to wear a crash helmet invalidates most travel insurance policies"

Do insurance policies actually cover only some sizes of motorbike??

[Rooo]

Inappropriate posts deleted.

[BlackWolf]

The old Community Magazine/Newspaper never reported anything like 30 road deaths per month that I can recall- during a high season month it was usually 6-8 deaths (sometimes with one or two foreigners among them, though they were most often young Thai males with 'late at night' used as a euphemism for 'drunk'- they were almost always reported as not wearing a helmet- during a low season month it might have been 4-6)- there may well have been greater numbers of actual fatalities (perhaps chalked up to other causes or involving undocumented workers), but the actual reported number was never that high- I honestly can't remember ever seeing it as high as 10.

I couldn't find any old links- if I'm wrong and anyone has some verification, please post a link.

I think your figures are quite right. The newspaper you refer to never reported 30 roads deaths per months.

[harrry]

What struck me in the article was this:

"the motorbike’s engine size or the failure to wear a crash helmet invalidates most travel insurance policies"

Do insurance policies actually cover only some sizes of motorbike??

Yes some countries allow a person to drive a moped on a car drivers licence. Moped definitions vary but often are up to 100cc. Some countries require the bike to be auto. If they are riding a low powered bike on their countries car licence and it covers mopeds they MAY be covered by their travel insurance as a licenced rider.

[cmsally]

What struck me in the article was this:

"the motorbike’s engine size or the failure to wear a crash helmet invalidates most travel insurance policies"

Do insurance policies actually cover only some sizes of motorbike??

Yes some countries allow a person to drive a moped on a car drivers licence. Moped definitions vary but often are up to 100cc. Some countries require the bike to be auto. If they are riding a low powered bike on their countries car licence and it covers mopeds they MAY be covered by their travel insurance as a licenced rider.

I bet you most people only become aware of this when its too late!!

[PoorSucker]

Motorcycling (50cc - 350cc)

We offer two types of policies for motorcycling:

Grade 1 cover included for free with all policies: covers motorcycling up to 50cc on public roads (no racing and must possess a licence allowing you to ride an equivalent motorcycle in the UK)

Grade 3 cover included as a top up policy: covers motorcycling on public roads (50cc - 350cc only and must possess a licence allowing you to ride an equivalent motorcycle in the UK

Motorcycling, particularly on bikes with over 50 cc engines, has a Grade 3 risk level.

This means it has high risks of injury.

Have your travel insurance in place before riding a motorcycle, especially in foreign cities.

Please note: You are only covered if you carry a valid license and wear a helmet.

http://www.essentialtravel.co.uk/travelinsurance/motorcycling.asp

The hospitals here are writing in their claims to insurance companies that the accident victim rode a 49 cc and wore a helmet.

If the didn't they would never make any money.

Edited December 20, 2011 by PoorSucker

[SamuiRes]

Newspaper reports are incredibly unreliable. I was interviewed recently and the Samui Express deliberately printed incorrect information (despite having being told in advance that it was incorrect) because it made better headlines. Slightly off topic I know, but beware of "facts" in the local publications.

[robsamui]

Fellas - not trying to stir up sh*t or rock the boat ...

Simply put - there are a lot of people who get killed on the roads on this tiny little island every year.

There is actually no way to measure it.

My personal opinion is that it is extraordinary. I believe it to be the highest in the world when it is balanced against the number of residents - however you figure this.

But - in the same way that no Thai Authority can tell you how many people are living on the island of Samui (this is in the year of 2011 and not in some kind of pre-electronic uncomputerised, non Internet society) then there are no statistics to reveal how many people get killed on Samui's roads. Nobody can even say even how many people are actually living here, never mind how many die here.

It's probably everso simple to figure this. Somebody checks the registrations at Immigration as to the number of aliens who are married, retired, or have registered a vehicle at an address here etc etc. Then they check how may of these aliens have a B or O visa. Then they spend a week working it out, balanced against the returns from the resorts and hotels. Not rocket science, just a nong given the figures and a calculator. But it has no value, politically or administratively to do this. So it has never been attempted. (Other than the local mayor to count all the Thai residents so that Samui becomes independent from Surat Thani and can get more money for the roads. Farangs? What's that . . .)

I wouldn't go anywhere else for the world - specially not cos of this. I live here . . .

But it is equally as illogical to dismiss this suggestion (the highest deaths in the world) as it is for me to suggest it might actually be true in the first place. Because there's no way to prove it or to deny it. Each suggestion has equal value.

I lived in the UK for 49 years before I came here and never once saw a fatal road accident, although I heard about dozens or saw them on the TV news. Anyone who stays here for more than a couple of months or so will get to see at least one if not actually be unfortunate enough to be involved in one.

I've seen depressingly loads. Road smears. Anonymous chalk outlines as I go past. Bodies covered with sheets next to mangled bikes (and isn't the new road surface good for this - on the old concrete the chalk was gone in a day. Now it stays for weeks. A little while after they finished the Chaweng-Lamai tarmac I counted NINE chalks between Buddy and OM's Biikes.)

And all of this speaks more volumes than any amount of facts or figures.

Sigh.

That's it. Make of it what you will But until Thailand becomes a part of the First World and with accountability and transparency to match - everyone's left guessing as to most things. Including this.

Nuff said.

:jap:

R

Edited December 20, 2011 by robsamui

[ydraw]

What struck me in the article was this:"the motorbike's engine size or the failure to wear a crash helmet invalidates most travel insurance policies" Do insurance policies actually cover only some sizes of motorbike??

Most travel insurance policies do not cover the operation of any vehicle over 50cc.

Additionally, your cover is usually void if you had been drinking, although Thai doctors have been known to claim you weren't in order to get paid.

These 2 facts make a lot of travel insurance policies basically useless. You won't be covered for the single most common cause of serious injury.

I encourage everyone to read the fine print of their own policy, if you have one.

Edited December 20, 2011 by ydraw

[koheesti]

I lived in the UK for 49 years before I came here and never once saw a fatal road accident, although I heard about dozens or saw them on the TV news. Anyone who stays here for more than a couple of months or so will get to see at least one if not actually be unfortunate enough to be involved in one.

Samui is the first place I've lived where after you've been gone 6-12 months and retrun, your friends go through the list of who has died since you were last there - almost always in a road accident.

[insertmembernamehere]

Dear future tourists to Koh Samui,

Here are a few basic and essential driving tips when on the island.

1. If you have never driven a scooter or have little experience on one, RENT ONE and get out on the road!

2. Of course you have come to Samui to relax so DRIVE AS FAST AS YOU CAN!

3. You want the cool breeze in your hair, so NEVER WEAR A HELMET.

4. It's the beach life, so ALWAYS WEAR FLIP-FLOPS WHEN DRIVING ANY VEHICLE.

5. It's still the beach life, so STOP, TURN AROUND OR DRIVE ANYWHERE YOU LIKE. Think of Samui as a big, abandoned shopping mall; you can drive any-which-way you like.

6. If you have rented a car, remember: ALWAYS OVERTAKE AND PASS SCOOTERS EVEN IF THERE IS NO ADVANTAGE OR REASON IN DOING SO. Blind curves are a good place to do this.

7. If you have rented a car, remember: scooters in the oncoming lane have NO RIGHT OF WAY, and you are required to run them off the road into the shoulder when you pass. Don't worry, the locals do this as a religion.

8. And finally, remember the Golden Rule: DRINK AND DRIVE!

Have a nice stay....

[Tropicalevo]

Dear future tourists to Koh Samui,

Here are a few basic and essential driving tips when on the island.

1. If you have never driven a scooter or have little experience on one, RENT ONE and get out on the road!

2. Of course you have come to Samui to relax so DRIVE AS FAST AS YOU CAN!

3. You want the cool breeze in your hair, so NEVER WEAR A HELMET.

4. It's the beach life, so ALWAYS WEAR FLIP-FLOPS WHEN DRIVING ANY VEHICLE.

5. It's still the beach life, so STOP, TURN AROUND OR DRIVE ANYWHERE YOU LIKE. Think of Samui as a big, abandoned shopping mall; you can drive any-which-way you like.

6. If you have rented a car, remember: ALWAYS OVERTAKE AND PASS SCOOTERS EVEN IF THERE IS NO ADVANTAGE OR REASON IN DOING SO. Blind curves are a good place to do this.

7. If you have rented a car, remember: scooters in the oncoming lane have NO RIGHT OF WAY, and you are required to run them off the road into the shoulder when you pass. Don't worry, the locals do this as a religion.

8. And finally, remember the Golden Rule: DRINK AND DRIVE!

Have a nice stay....

[koheesti]

Dear future tourists to Koh Samui,

Here are a few basic and essential driving tips when on the island.

1. If you have never driven a scooter or have little experience on one, RENT ONE and get out on the road!

2. Of course you have come to Samui to relax so DRIVE AS FAST AS YOU CAN!

3. You want the cool breeze in your hair, so NEVER WEAR A HELMET.

4. It's the beach life, so ALWAYS WEAR FLIP-FLOPS WHEN DRIVING ANY VEHICLE.

5. It's still the beach life, so STOP, TURN AROUND OR DRIVE ANYWHERE YOU LIKE. Think of Samui as a big, abandoned shopping mall; you can drive any-which-way you like.

6. If you have rented a car, remember: ALWAYS OVERTAKE AND PASS SCOOTERS EVEN IF THERE IS NO ADVANTAGE OR REASON IN DOING SO. Blind curves are a good place to do this.

7. If you have rented a car, remember: scooters in the oncoming lane have NO RIGHT OF WAY, and you are required to run them off the road into the shoulder when you pass. Don't worry, the locals do this as a religion.

8. And finally, remember the Golden Rule: DRINK AND DRIVE!

Have a nice stay....

9. Be sure the insurance you buy only covers scooters with engines smaller than the one you will actually rent. No reason for the insurance company to have to pay when you have an accident.

[limbos]

Motorcycling (50cc - 350cc)

We offer two types of policies for motorcycling:

Grade 1 cover included for free with all policies: covers motorcycling up to 50cc on public roads (no racing and must possess a licence allowing you to ride an equivalent motorcycle in the UK)

Grade 3 cover included as a top up policy: covers motorcycling on public roads (50cc - 350cc only and must possess a licence allowing you to ride an equivalent motorcycle in the UK

Motorcycling, particularly on bikes with over 50 cc engines, has a Grade 3 risk level.

This means it has high risks of injury.

Have your travel insurance in place before riding a motorcycle, especially in foreign cities.

Please note: You are only covered if you carry a valid license and wear a helmet.

http://www.essential...otorcycling.asp

The hospitals here are writing in their claims to insurance companies that the accident victim rode a 49 cc and wore a helmet.

If the didn't they would never make any money.

That's a myth, a very good friend of mine did get the insurance report from the hospital stating he was driving a 120cc bike and he needed to cough up all his own money to pay for the extensive hospital bills since he needed brain surgery.

[Maipenrai007]

Dear future tourists to Koh Samui,

Here are a few basic and essential driving tips when on the island.

1. If you have never driven a scooter or have little experience on one, RENT ONE and get out on the road!

2. Of course you have come to Samui to relax so DRIVE AS FAST AS YOU CAN!

3. You want the cool breeze in your hair, so NEVER WEAR A HELMET.

4. It's the beach life, so ALWAYS WEAR FLIP-FLOPS WHEN DRIVING ANY VEHICLE.

5. It's still the beach life, so STOP, TURN AROUND OR DRIVE ANYWHERE YOU LIKE. Think of Samui as a big, abandoned shopping mall; you can drive any-which-way you like.

6. If you have rented a car, remember: ALWAYS OVERTAKE AND PASS SCOOTERS EVEN IF THERE IS NO ADVANTAGE OR REASON IN DOING SO. Blind curves are a good place to do this.

7. If you have rented a car, remember: scooters in the oncoming lane have NO RIGHT OF WAY, and you are required to run them off the road into the shoulder when you pass. Don't worry, the locals do this as a religion.

8. And finally, remember the Golden Rule: DRINK AND DRIVE!

Have a nice stay....

Oh No You Bet Me to It!!

[Rooo]

Just seen a classic on the ring road , 3-4 guys on scooters, classic uniform, wearing big head sets & jiving to the music. They look like the noise cancelling ones, great Idea to hear traffic around you & warning horns.

[Boater]

http://www.newmarketjournal.co.uk/news/latest-news/tributes_paid_to_thai_crash_victim_1_3356161

[Boater]

another sad motorbike death - Morgan Blaine Hayes died unexpectedly as a result of a motor vehicle accident on December 22 on the island of Koh Samui, Thailand.

http://www.jacksonnewspapers.com/obituaries/x1282428038/Morgan-Blaine-Hayes

[insertmembernamehere]

9. On a scooter, when you turn put your feet down like you are riding a bicycle.

[Tropicalevo]

9. On a scooter, when you turn put your feet down like you are riding a bicycle.

but only if you are wearing flip-flops

[Boater]

i was reading the evening standard today which suggested there was 16, yes only 16 bike deaths within the whole of london last year, and this was unexceptable .... so much that they will be blocking traffic to get old borris to fix the problem, as there point is there shouldnt be any... now how much populated is london to samui? , yet samui has this death rate plus more monthly ? , yet NO ONE addresses the issue?

Samui does really need to address the problem and quickly .... samui as a small island go so easily go from 16 a month to 0 so easily, but i think it would never happen, could you see the TAT campaign, Samui the safest Island in the world, the best PR it could ever have, but will never happen

[samuijimmy]

i was reading the evening standard today which suggested there was 16, yes only 16 bike deaths within the whole of london last year, and this was unexceptable .... so much that they will be blocking traffic to get old borris to fix the problem, as there point is there shouldnt be any... now how much populated is london to samui? , yet samui has this death rate plus more monthly ? , yet NO ONE addresses the issue?

Samui does really need to address the problem and quickly .... samui as a small island go so easily go from 16 a month to 0 so easily, but i think it would never happen, could you see the TAT campaign, Samui the safest Island in the world, the best PR it could ever have, but will never happen

What do we call you now? "New Dear Leader" ????

Well, I'd say they are trying to address the problem, especially when it comes to helmets, with the signs posted round the island in both English and Thai... ... then the fairly common road checks for non helmet wearers... (that's one area there is no double pricing the Thai's pay same as Farang.... a big hit in the pocket for most of them! )

But to compare London, where drivers would have been trained (usually) to drive a motor bike, and probably not easy to rent a bike either.... Whereas here to many people visiting here, using for the first time... But too Samui And KP is about the only place in Thailand your don't see people wearing helmets...

TIT..... Twits in Thailand!

[insertmembernamehere]

"Well, I'd say they are trying to address the problem, especially when it comes to helmets, with the signs posted round the island in both English and Thai... ... then the fairly common road checks for non helmet wearers..."

"Fairly common"? "Trying to address the problem"? This sounds like a wind-up to me. I am sorry, but I don't see either of these things. Is there something going on in the north of the island?

Edited January 10, 2012 by Rooo
quote

[Tropicalevo]

"Well, I'd say they are trying to address the problem, especially when it comes to helmets, with the signs posted round the island in both English and Thai... ... then the fairly common road checks for non helmet wearers..."

"Fairly common"? "Trying to address the problem"? This sounds like a wind-up to me. I am sorry, but I don't see either of these things. Is there something going on in the north of the island?

Yes - helmet checks. Quite often.

[insertmembernamehere]

The taxi "mafia" contributes to the fact that people feel that there is no viable option after the end of a night of drinking but to drive back to their resort.

If there were reasonably priced taxis, and songtaos that kept schedules like public transport (and did not drive 30kpm and in circles looking for fares), people would be more likely to not drive while intoxicated.