Hyandai Oil Pressure Warning Lamp

[chris5346]

hi,

i have been offered a hyandai exel cheap here in chiang mai by some friends but the car is old and has a few problems.

the tick over seems to vary - not hunting as such but sometimes when drive and stop it settles at 1000 rpm and sometimes drops to 600-700,

when it's ticking over at low revs say 800 rmp the oil warning light comes on and goes out anything above 900 .

the current owner said he's had a garage to look at it and they said it's dues to the vibrations at low revs ? (it does shake much more at 800 then 1000)

the lights been coming on for 3 months aparently.

i can buy it for 40,000 baht which sounds cheap but i'm worried may have to repair the engine at some point in the future ?

the cars 1993 with 160,000 Km , it drives ok considering the mileage .

any advice please,

chris

[katabeachbum]

if oil level is normal, you either need a new oil pump or a new oil pressure sensor.

who knows how much damaged engine is if new oilpump is needed

[Litlos]

With those symptoms it sounds like wear on the crankshaft bearings. There may be other reasons including under performing oil pump or blocked filter etc, however the vibrations are a pointer to bearing wear, reinforced by lack of oil pressure due to slippage around the worn bearings. At 160,000 km the engine is probably on its last legs and will be requiring major work shortly. Also a Hyundai of that vintage is not put together the best or of the best quality materials. Sounds like you would be buying trouble.

Cheers

[transam]

Start the car cold, let it idle, put in first gear and release the clutch a little with brakes on to lower the RPM to see if the oil light comes on. If it doesn't it's cos the oil is thick when cold but if it does, bearings. Do the same when hot. If the light comes on hot but not cold or comes on at a different RPM then it looks like engine bearings are naff and would steer clear of it.

Oil pressure warning light is there to show a problem, comes on when oil pressure is toooooo low. If you want to be sure and spend some cash you could put a new oil pressure sender unit in to iliminate it but my guess is bearing wear.

PS. Or 10 year old oil .

[Jangot]

The varying tickover rate could be due to the aircon compressor cutting in and out. In most cars there is a solenoid to modify the fuel flow at tickover depending on aircon status, keeping the rpm constant. try with the aircon switched off and see if the tickover is constant at around 1,000.

For the oil light, if it goes out at 1,000rpm the oil pressure is probably OK, and the engine just a bit old and tired. At 160,000 KM that is to be expected

I doubt if the flicker has anything to do with the vibration, unless the connector to the pressure sender is loose. That is easily checked.

My opinion....don't shoot me if you buy it and it blows up the next day ;-)

Edited December 19, 2011 by Jangot

[Semper]

PS. Or 10 year old oil

Hence the bearing weare.

[Semper]

If there is no "bearing knock" when driving under load, I think there should not be any problems.

[transam]

If there is no "bearing knock" when driving under load, I think there should not be any problems.

Wonder what the vibrations are ,

Bearings can be shot but once oil pressure is up, no knock after RPM increase, there perhaps won't be any noise from worn bearings, only at low RPM, too big a clearance to maintain pressure at low RPM.

[kartman]

Bid them 25,000 baht or buy one off taladrod for 40,000 or a little more.

[chris5346]

thanks for your replies,

still undecided what to do, have to let them know tomorrow,

the engine above 900 rpm runs smooth and no warning light,

and yes if the aircon is on then the revs do drop a bit causing shaking and the oil light to come on,

for the mileage the car drives ok on open roads but in a busy city it's not easy and going over speed bumps etc aren't much fun, there's something going on with the steering column like a clunk ?

i think the guys spent 40k on it over the past 5 years and wants to get that back for it, it's had a re-spray and had some new parts, he paid 200k 5 years ago from a dealer.

i'm thinking i can keep it a while and not lose too much on it, if it lasts 6 months it's paid for itself.

i guess it's on borrowed time with that mileage

could i try putting thicker oil in it ?

[transam]

thanks for your replies,

still undecided what to do, have to let them know tomorrow,

the engine above 900 rpm runs smooth and no warning light,

and yes if the aircon is on then the revs do drop a bit causing shaking and the oil light to come on,

for the mileage the car drives ok on open roads but in a busy city it's not easy and going over speed bumps etc aren't much fun, there's something going on with the steering column like a clunk ?

i think the guys spent 40k on it over the past 5 years and wants to get that back for it, it's had a re-spray and had some new parts, he paid 200k 5 years ago from a dealer.

i'm thinking i can keep it a while and not lose too much on it, if it lasts 6 months it's paid for itself.

i guess it's on borrowed time with that mileage

could i try putting thicker oil in it ?

Yes, 20/50 oil might help.

[WarpSpeed]

Start the car cold, let it idle, put in first gear and release the clutch a little with brakes on to lower the RPM to see if the oil light comes on. If it doesn't it's cos the oil is thick when cold but if it does, bearings. Do the same when hot. If the light comes on hot but not cold or comes on at a different RPM then it looks like engine bearings are naff and would steer clear of it.

Oil pressure warning light is there to show a problem, comes on when oil pressure is toooooo low. If you want to be sure and spend some cash you could put a new oil pressure sender unit in to iliminate it but my guess is bearing wear.

PS. Or 10 year old oil .

Yes or scratch the sender and find a quality mechanic......................... Er ummm on second hand never mind............ Oh well let me continue my thought anyways, a quality mechanic that can simply hook up an oil pressure gauge temporarily (preferably one that has PSI indications not just a generic gauge) to see if it is actually pumping proper pressure when hot, should be up around 60 to 90 PSI to be safe..

Edited December 19, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[WarpSpeed]

thanks for your replies,

still undecided what to do, have to let them know tomorrow,

the engine above 900 rpm runs smooth and no warning light,

and yes if the aircon is on then the revs do drop a bit causing shaking and the oil light to come on,

for the mileage the car drives ok on open roads but in a busy city it's not easy and going over speed bumps etc aren't much fun, there's something going on with the steering column like a clunk ?

i think the guys spent 40k on it over the past 5 years and wants to get that back for it, it's had a re-spray and had some new parts, he paid 200k 5 years ago from a dealer.

i'm thinking i can keep it a while and not lose too much on it, if it lasts 6 months it's paid for itself.

i guess it's on borrowed time with that mileage

could i try putting thicker oil in it ?

Yes, 20/50 oil might help.

Along with some STP but I'd still get the pressure checked so you know if it's borderline or a real urgent issue.

[transam]

Start the car cold, let it idle, put in first gear and release the clutch a little with brakes on to lower the RPM to see if the oil light comes on. If it doesn't it's cos the oil is thick when cold but if it does, bearings. Do the same when hot. If the light comes on hot but not cold or comes on at a different RPM then it looks like engine bearings are naff and would steer clear of it.

Oil pressure warning light is there to show a problem, comes on when oil pressure is toooooo low. If you want to be sure and spend some cash you could put a new oil pressure sender unit in to iliminate it but my guess is bearing wear.

PS. Or 10 year old oil .

Yes or scratch the sender and find a quality mechanic......................... Er ummm on second hand never mind............ Oh well let me continue my thought anyways, a quality mechanic that can simply hook up an oil pressure gauge temporarily (preferably one that has PSI indications not just a generic gauge) to see if it is actually pumping proper pressure when hot, should be up around 60 to 90 PSI to be safe..

But wayyyyyyyyy lower at idle, perhaps 30psi, that's where the red light and bearing wear show up. If factory is say 30psi at idle but actual is 15psi cos a bit of bearing wear then the light will flicker or come on.

[WarpSpeed]

Start the car cold, let it idle, put in first gear and release the clutch a little with brakes on to lower the RPM to see if the oil light comes on. If it doesn't it's cos the oil is thick when cold but if it does, bearings. Do the same when hot. If the light comes on hot but not cold or comes on at a different RPM then it looks like engine bearings are naff and would steer clear of it.

Oil pressure warning light is there to show a problem, comes on when oil pressure is toooooo low. If you want to be sure and spend some cash you could put a new oil pressure sender unit in to iliminate it but my guess is bearing wear.

PS. Or 10 year old oil .

Yes or scratch the sender and find a quality mechanic......................... Er ummm on second hand never mind............ Oh well let me continue my thought anyways, a quality mechanic that can simply hook up an oil pressure gauge temporarily (preferably one that has PSI indications not just a generic gauge) to see if it is actually pumping proper pressure when hot, should be up around 60 to 90 PSI to be safe..

But wayyyyyyyyy lower at idle, perhaps 30psi, that's where the red light and bearing wear show up. If factory is say 30psi at idle but actual is 15psi cos a bit of bearing wear then the light will flicker or come on.

No, it shouldn't drop all that much at idle, it should maintain a PSI around 50 to 70 the oil is not compressible and should have no where for pressure to escape regardless of engine speed as it still maintains pressure. If it does drop that drastically when idling that is a sure sign of bearing wear and impending failure as the oil is escaping into other areas and thus allowing the pressure to drop dramatically as the pump can't keep up.

[transam]

Start the car cold, let it idle, put in first gear and release the clutch a little with brakes on to lower the RPM to see if the oil light comes on. If it doesn't it's cos the oil is thick when cold but if it does, bearings. Do the same when hot. If the light comes on hot but not cold or comes on at a different RPM then it looks like engine bearings are naff and would steer clear of it.

Oil pressure warning light is there to show a problem, comes on when oil pressure is toooooo low. If you want to be sure and spend some cash you could put a new oil pressure sender unit in to iliminate it but my guess is bearing wear.

PS. Or 10 year old oil .

Yes or scratch the sender and find a quality mechanic......................... Er ummm on second hand never mind............ Oh well let me continue my thought anyways, a quality mechanic that can simply hook up an oil pressure gauge temporarily (preferably one that has PSI indications not just a generic gauge) to see if it is actually pumping proper pressure when hot, should be up around 60 to 90 PSI to be safe..

But wayyyyyyyyy lower at idle, perhaps 30psi, that's where the red light and bearing wear show up. If factory is say 30psi at idle but actual is 15psi cos a bit of bearing wear then the light will flicker or come on.

No, it shouldn't drop all that much at idle, it should maintain a PSI around 50 to 70 the oil is not compressible and should have no where for pressure to escape regardless of engine speed as it still maintains pressure. If it does drop that drastically when idling that is a sure sign of bearing wear and impending failure as the oil is escaping into other areas and thus allowing the pressure to drop dramatically as the pump can't keep up.

Rubbish, the oil pump is driven by the engine, at idle the pump is turning slowly, when RPM is increased the the pump works harder, turns faster to create more pressure THEN the pressure relief valve takes over to maintain pressure.

For instance,my old Pontiac, sorry l mention again , with cast rods had idle pressure when hot of 30psi, when RPM increased achieved 80psi, when l changed to alloy rods which required an extra 1/1000 of an inch big end clearance the idle pressure dropped to 12psi. I can go on to tell how l solved it if you like.

BUT, every engine is designed differently and the OP's ride that has a light prob POINTS to a clearance problem.

[WarpSpeed]

Yes or scratch the sender and find a quality mechanic......................... Er ummm on second hand never mind............ Oh well let me continue my thought anyways, a quality mechanic that can simply hook up an oil pressure gauge temporarily (preferably one that has PSI indications not just a generic gauge) to see if it is actually pumping proper pressure when hot, should be up around 60 to 90 PSI to be safe..

But wayyyyyyyyy lower at idle, perhaps 30psi, that's where the red light and bearing wear show up. If factory is say 30psi at idle but actual is 15psi cos a bit of bearing wear then the light will flicker or come on.

No, it shouldn't drop all that much at idle, it should maintain a PSI around 50 to 70 the oil is not compressible and should have no where for pressure to escape regardless of engine speed as it still maintains pressure. If it does drop that drastically when idling that is a sure sign of bearing wear and impending failure as the oil is escaping into other areas and thus allowing the pressure to drop dramatically as the pump can't keep up.

Rubbish, the oil pump is driven by the engine, at idle the pump is turning slowly, when RPM is increased the the pump works harder, turns faster to create more pressure THEN the pressure relief valve takes over to maintain pressure.

For instance,my old Pontiac, sorry l mention again , with cast rods had idle pressure when hot of 30psi, when RPM increased achieved 80psi, when l changed to alloy rods which required an extra 1/1000 of an inch big end clearance the idle pressure dropped to 12psi. I can go on to tell how l solved it if you like.

BUT, every engine is designed differently and the OP's ride that has a light prob POINTS to a clearance problem.

Yes I agree your post is rubbish as per usual but Ok you're the expert ... I dare ask have you ever had to monitor your engine pressures and such for anything more then a few seconds and even then how much did you actually watch them versus say multiple laps and even multiple hours of racing consecutively so that you know it's going to be good for the next race or even the next few laps. Rhetorical question BTW.

I'll also say that you've proven my point as if your Pontiac had what has been specified as a racing engine, if it was built right it already came standard with larger then spec bearing gaps to allow it to run freer and build more HP with less friction.

Edited December 19, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[WarpSpeed]

Comparing a V8 drag engine and a stock 4 cylinder is a bit off the chart whereas my comparisons are apples and apples.. But hey rubbish eh??

[Lickey]

As Warpy ses, would be a good idea to remove the oil pressure switch and fit a readable oil pressure gauge with plastic pipe ect, if the reading is above 15psi at tickover no worries, if not, find out much it would cost to remove sump, and check the oil pick-up strainer, they usually bolt on with 2 bolts to the pump, its not been unknown for the pipe to flange weld to fracture or the gasket to fail, sucking in air at low revs, while the sump is off, perhaps the pressure relief valve is in there, have this checked for seating ect,

[jay1980]

I think this model would be using the same engine as older Mitsubishi like 4G15, if it is the worse case a replacement engine should be cheap and easy to source and fit.

[wandrinstar]

I think this model would be using the same engine as older Mitsubishi like 4G15, if it is the worse case a replacement engine should be cheap and easy to source and fit.

Well Spotted that Man. Not a lot of people know that..

[transam]

But wayyyyyyyyy lower at idle, perhaps 30psi, that's where the red light and bearing wear show up. If factory is say 30psi at idle but actual is 15psi cos a bit of bearing wear then the light will flicker or come on.

No, it shouldn't drop all that much at idle, it should maintain a PSI around 50 to 70 the oil is not compressible and should have no where for pressure to escape regardless of engine speed as it still maintains pressure. If it does drop that drastically when idling that is a sure sign of bearing wear and impending failure as the oil is escaping into other areas and thus allowing the pressure to drop dramatically as the pump can't keep up.

Rubbish, the oil pump is driven by the engine, at idle the pump is turning slowly, when RPM is increased the the pump works harder, turns faster to create more pressure THEN the pressure relief valve takes over to maintain pressure.

For instance,my old Pontiac, sorry l mention again , with cast rods had idle pressure when hot of 30psi, when RPM increased achieved 80psi, when l changed to alloy rods which required an extra 1/1000 of an inch big end clearance the idle pressure dropped to 12psi. I can go on to tell how l solved it if you like.

BUT, every engine is designed differently and the OP's ride that has a light prob POINTS to a clearance problem.

Yes I agree your post is rubbish as per usual but Ok you're the expert ... I dare ask have you ever had to monitor your engine pressures and such for anything more then a few seconds and even then how much did you actually watch them versus say multiple laps and even multiple hours of racing consecutively so that you know it's going to be good for the next race or even the next few laps. Rhetorical question BTW.

I'll also say that you've proven my point as if your Pontiac had what has been specified as a racing engine, if it was built right it already came standard with larger then spec bearing gaps to allow it to run freer and build more HP with less friction.

I thought l would have to explain it more to you

Look at my hood gauges, 1. Engine oil pressure, 2. Trans temp. 3. Carb fuel pressure. 4. Nitrous syste fuel pressure. The important gauges in my line of site, so yes l have monitered oil pressure at all RPM's.

An oil pump is a mechanical device which turns by means of engine power, no engine has max psi at ilde HOT that l know of, my pals Ferrari has 10psi at idle, blip the gas and the pressure rockets.

whether a 4, 6, 8, 10, or 12 cylinder engine they all basically do the same job and oil is the life blood and pressure is the key but you cannot have optimum pressure at idle.Pontiac motors had cast rods except for the 455 SD. Stock oil pressure was 30psi at idle, 60psi top end but for the factory performance stuff had 30psi and 80psi All clearances were the same, ONLY the use of alloy rods did the clearance increase.

Every different piston engine on the planet has different oil feed needs and specific pressures at idle and it's max RPM to maintain survival. My instance is my Pontiac where a race company told me he wanted 30psi at idle and 10 psi per 1000 RPM BUT if l am running above 6000RPM with my combo, which l was, then l needed 100 psi, which l achieved and the motor stayed in one piece for 20 years.

Your last sentence , if you increase clearances on mains and big ends from a stock motor spec you will have oil pressure drop at idle but not many race engines idle at the speed of the OP's ride eh.

Any body out there got 50 to 70 psi on a factory ride when hot at idle ?

[WarpSpeed]

^ Couldn't be arsed to clean up your crap quoting again, always makes me wonder how one could claim so much knowledge about something technical like cars and not even be able to properly use the quote function and not see the ironic contradiction in that. Suffice it to say it's more rubbish not worthy of quoting anyways.

JFYI I didn't even read your post I just answered same as you don't read mine..

Actually my VW's used to get as much as 90 when refurbished and would blow the clean out plug out of the hole in the block which was between the tranny and a bitch to get at, so we use to tap them and screw in a plug.

My Acura engines used to get as much as 60, when at anything below 25 the VVTI would cut out as a safety so the engine wouldn't blow at high RPM's. But you knew that already being the engine expert you are as all engines are the same apparently regardless of how old the technology is, the number of cylinders and who built it..

Stock engines though a bit more stock then average with only mere tweaks.

A bit off topic I know but I'm wondering though have you ever heard of a dry sump? Are they operated by the engine?

BTW I never said at idle speeds, you did..

Anyway OP have a PSI gauge installed and no need to guess, that'll be the end of my advice I have more important things to do in my life then argue with pedantics..

Edited December 20, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[transam]

^ Couldn't be arsed to clean up your crap quoting again, always makes me wonder how one could claim so much knowledge about something technical like cars and not even be able to properly use the quote function and not see the ironic contradiction in that. Suffice it to say it's more rubbish, JFYI I didn't even read your post I just answered same as you don't read mine..

Actually my VW's used to get as much as 90 when refurbished and would blow the clean out plug out of the hole so we used to tap them and screw in a plug,my Acura engines used to get as much 60.. Stock engines though a bit more stock then average.

It's really bad Netiquette to point out my use of a PC or spelling for that matter, really shows the reader you have lost the argument, but you've done it before so no probs here. No point in me trying to explain oil feed stuff to you any further as you do not like being taught something by someone like me who has built engines and understands how stuff works and how to improve it, and raced it..

Sooooooooo, adios

[WarpSpeed]

^ Couldn't be arsed to clean up your crap quoting again, always makes me wonder how one could claim so much knowledge about something technical like cars and not even be able to properly use the quote function and not see the ironic contradiction in that. Suffice it to say it's more rubbish, JFYI I didn't even read your post I just answered same as you don't read mine..

Actually my VW's used to get as much as 90 when refurbished and would blow the clean out plug out of the hole so we used to tap them and screw in a plug,my Acura engines used to get as much 60.. Stock engines though a bit more stock then average.

It's really bad Netiquette to point out my use of a PC or spelling for that matter, really shows the reader you have lost the argument, but you've done it before so no probs here. No point in me trying to explain oil feed stuff to you any further as you do not like being taught something by someone like me who has built engines and understands how stuff works and how to improve it, and raced it..

Sooooooooo, adios

What incredible hypocrisy you lecturing someone on forum netiquette, who calls you on your crap quoting. What is poor netiquette as you put it, is expecting everyone else to clean up your crap quotes, it is very much a P-I-T-A to clean up your crap quotes and I might also add it's against the forum rules too..

JFYI You have nothing on building engines over me and I've done more then just race with mine I've set track records, won races and championships and run long term enduros as much as 24 hours at a time, not just "racing" with them in a straight line for a few seconds..

Edited December 20, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[transam]

^ Couldn't be arsed to clean up your crap quoting again, always makes me wonder how one could claim so much knowledge about something technical like cars and not even be able to properly use the quote function and not see the ironic contradiction in that. Suffice it to say it's more rubbish, JFYI I didn't even read your post I just answered same as you don't read mine..

Actually my VW's used to get as much as 90 when refurbished and would blow the clean out plug out of the hole so we used to tap them and screw in a plug,my Acura engines used to get as much 60.. Stock engines though a bit more stock then average.

It's really bad Netiquette to point out my use of a PC or spelling for that matter, really shows the reader you have lost the argument, but you've done it before so no probs here. No point in me trying to explain oil feed stuff to you any further as you do not like being taught something by someone like me who has built engines and understands how stuff works and how to improve it, and raced it..

Sooooooooo, adios

What incredible hypocrisy you lecturing someone on forum netiquette, who calls you on your crap quoting. What is poor netiquette as you put it, is expecting everyone else to clean up your crap quotes, it is very much a P-I-T-A to clean up your crap quotes and I might also add it's against the forum rules too..

JFYI You have nothing on building engines over me and I've done more then just race with mine I've set track records, won races and championships and run long term enduros as much as 24 hours at a time, not just "racing" with them in a straight line for a few seconds..

All that and you don't know how an oil pump works.

But getting back to the OP then, you tell me why the red light comes on when the revs go perhaps below his factory idle speed and goes out when the revs increase slightly ?. Nooooooooooo, l will tell you, cos the bloody pump isn't spinning fast enough to create factory set oil pressure perhaps cos warn bearings or just really low revs, as the revs increase the pump spins faster raising the pressure above the sender low pressure setting and as the engine winds up then the pump makes more pressure needing the help of a pressure relief valve to stabilize it. at the factory max pressure for the ride. Easy stuff really Warps.

[Semper]

.

Edited December 20, 2011 by Semper

[Semper]

something wrong here...

Edited December 20, 2011 by Semper

[transam]

something wrong here...

ooooop's but l read it .

Dry sumps are externally engine driven multiple pumps to an external oil reservoir mainly for high horse power/revving engines.

[Semper]

something wrong here...

ooooop's but l read it .

Dry sumps are externally engine driven multiple pumps to an external oil reservoir mainly for high horse power/revving engines.

I think there is some glitch when making a "quick reply" with a quote. But you're correct, that was what I tried to post.