Democrats Accuse Thaksin's Adviser Noppadon Of Distorting Facts

[webfact]

Democrats accuse Thaksin's adviser of distorting facts

The Nation

The opposition Democrat Party yesterday accused former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra's legal adviser of trying to distort facts related to the ex-PM's passport controversy.

Democrat spokesman Chavanond Intarakomalsut disputed Noppadon Pattama's claim that the Democrat-led government had disseminated false information that Thaksin was on Interpol's "red-notice list" of wanted persons and had lied that former PM was on the Foreign Ministry's blacklist.

Chavanond said that his party's legal team was gathering evidence to file a court petition against Foreign Minister Surapong Towichukchaikul for violating the law and the Foreign Ministry's regulation against returning Thaksin his passport.

He told the press yesterday that there was an arrest warrant out for Thaksin, and that a Supreme Court order had been issued to the Foreign Ministry explaining why the former PM could not be allowed to return to Thailand and a wanted notice had been sent to several countries.

"I wonder if Noppadon has really got a law degree from Oxford University as he claims. He doesn't understand simple legal statements. In the past I thought he was just pretending to be stupid, but now I'm convinced that he is not pretending," Chavanond said.

He said the wanted notice issued by the Foreign Ministry could confirm Thaksin's status. "This document should be destroyed before someone at the Foreign Ministry sends me a copy. If I get this document, I will have proof that the Foreign Ministry was, in fact, aware of Thaksin's status," he said.

Last week, the Foreign Ministry confirmed that Thaksin's Thai passport, seized by the previous Democrat-led government, had been returned to him. The foreign minister had said earlier that he would make sure Thaksin got his passport back before the New Year.

The ministry's confirmation came after Chavanond said that he had learned from unnamed ministry official that the ministry's computer records about Thaksin being on the black list had been altered so a new passport could be issued for him.

Yesterday, Chavanond also accused Noppadon of lying when he said that Thaksin had not filed an appeal for his passport to be returned. The Democrat spokesman said Foreign Ministry officials had confirmed that Thaksin had filed a petition with the Thai embassy at the United Arab Emirates, where the ex-PM is living on self-imposed exile.

"Noppadon did not mention this fact. He is trying to distort this matter," Chavanond said.

He went on to counter Noppadon's accusation that the previous Democrat-led administration had discriminated against Thaksin by cancelling his passport. In the accusation, Noppadon cited the fact that previous governments had not cancelled the passports of other fugitive politicians, like Vatana Asavahame and Somchai Khunplume, who were sentenced for harsher offences.

Chavanond said the Foreign Ministry was acting under a ministry regulation that required the passport of persons who cause damage to the country while overseas be cancelled.

"Vatana and Somchai were not in that position," he added.

In response to Noppadon's remark that Thaksin was using his Montenegrin passport to travel and had no need for a Thai passport, Chavanond responded that the issue was that Thaksin had been returned his passport despite the fact that he had violated the law and ministry regulations.

"Thaksin seems to have more rights than other people. This is an instance of double standards," he said.

-- The Nation 2011-12-20

[Siam Simon]

"Chavanond said the Foreign Ministry was acting under a ministry regulation that required the passport of persons who cause damage to the country while overseas be cancelled."

So Thaksin's passport cancellation wasn't from a legal process, then. Just an interpretation of a "ministry regulation" by some of Thaksin's enemies. Kasit Piromya, please come back, all is forgiven.

[mca]

"I wonder if Noppadon has really got a law degree from Oxford University as he claims. He doesn't understand simple legal statements. In the past I thought he was just pretending to be stupid, but now I'm convinced that he is not pretending," Chavanond said.

This is what we need more of. Cutting quips from all involved.

Noppadon replied " I don't know why the Democratic Party are bothering searching for evidence because basically they couldn't find their <deleted> with both hands and a police truncheon."

That sort of stuff.

[airconsult]

The bit that confuses me is the sentence.....

"He told the press yesterday that there was an arrest warrant out for Thaksin, and that a Supreme Court order had been issued to the Foreign Ministry explaining why the former PM could not be allowed to return to Thailand and a wanted notice had been sent to several countries."

"...could not be allowed to return to Thailand..."?????? Pardon me, is the translation bad, or is he saying that Thaksin was not allowed to return to Thailand to face the court and his sentence??? What was with the application (denied) for a red notice then? And how about those widely reported wanted notices sent to individual countries? (Now I wonder if they said "wanted" or "not wanted")

[Thai at Heart]

Democrat spokesman Chavanond Intarakomalsut disputed Noppadon Pattama's claim that the Democrat-led government had disseminated false information that Thaksin was on Interpol's "red-notice list" of wanted persons and had lied that former PM was on the Foreign Ministry's blacklist.

Well we know he was never on the "red list" for interpol, so what are the odds that he was never on the foreign ministry blacklist? What odds, Kasit just found a loophole to jump through?

"I wonder if Noppadon has really got a law degree from Oxford University as he claims. He doesn't understand simple legal statements. In the past I thought he was just pretending to be stupid, but now I'm convinced that he is not pretending," Chavanond said.

Now as for Noppadon, well, who really cares if he went to Oxford, although fair play if he did. That said, it seems a rather well known Democrat went there too, and he doesn't seem to have had too clear a handle on this issue legally either. However, irrespective of whether Noppadon did go to Oxford or not, I am sure he is well aware of the Thai defamation law, so expect the fur to fly.

[metisdead]

Posts that were insulting and inflammatory have been removed.

[beano2274]

When was the passport taken from him? If I remember correctly a Thai passport has a validity of 5 years only, they used to be able to extend the validity as there was a page to do it, but in the new ones there is no such page. Or have they issued a new one, it says in the story a new one, but then again it says "gave him back his passport", this to me means old one.

[hellodolly]

The bit that confuses me is the sentence.....

"He told the press yesterday that there was an arrest warrant out for Thaksin, and that a Supreme Court order had been issued to the Foreign Ministry explaining why the former PM could not be allowed to return to Thailand and a wanted notice had been sent to several countries."

"...could not be allowed to return to Thailand..."?????? Pardon me, is the translation bad, or is he saying that Thaksin was not allowed to return to Thailand to face the court and his sentence??? What was with the application (denied) for a red notice then? And how about those widely reported wanted notices sent to individual countries? (Now I wonder if they said "wanted" or "not wanted")

Like I said, Kasit please come back. The Dems keep on finding ever-bigger fvckwits to argue this issue.

Luckily, Puea Thai has you!

Kinda like in the states the Republicans have Rush Limbaugh.

What suprised me is Noppadon Pattama's being accused of distorting the truth.

Are they saying or even mildly suggesting that Thaksin would hire some one who was not scrupulously honest.

The whole thing goes to show What Thaksin thinks of Thai's tell them any ridicules thing and they will believe it.

Problem is there is enough that do to get him elected.

[johna]

The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.

Shakespeare

Henry The Sixth

[phiphidon]

Kinda like in the states the Republicans have Rush Limbaugh.

What suprised me is Noppadon Pattama's being accused of distorting the truth.

Are they saying or even mildly suggesting that Thaksin would hire some one who was not scrupulously honest.

The whole thing goes to show What Thaksin thinks of Thai's tell them any ridicules thing and they will believe it.

Problem is there is enough that do to get him elected.

"Scrupulously honest" Politicians are hard to find least of all Democrat ones (e.g Suthep) but here's some more from a PAD site regarding the "arrest warrants" apparently issued by Interpol according to the Democrat FM Kasit's assistant who was sent on a special mission to the UAE

The Foreign Ministry of the United of Arab Emirates (UAE) is ready to cooperate with the Thai government in extraditing outlawed former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, Foreign Minister Kasit Piromya's assistant Panit Wikitset said on Thursday.

Mr Panit and Deputy Commerce Minister Alongkorn Ponlaboot were assigned by Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva as special envoys to forward the arrest warrants for Thaksin to the UAE Foreign Ministry and police.

The envoys visited Abu Dhabi from Sunday to Tuesday and were tasked with negotiating with the UAE authorities to extradite the ousted premier.

Mr Panit said the UAE government had already received the arrest warrants for Thaksin from the International Criminal Police Organisation, or Interpol.

Mr Panit said he had briefed Foreign Minister Kasit on the negotiations.

http://antithaksin.w...eft-to-liberia/

Seems that somebody is being economical with the truth here, and it's not Noppadon.

[airconsult]

The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.

Shakespeare

Henry The Sixth

Which fits perfectly with a quote often mistakenly attributed to Shakespeare.

Oh what a tangled web we weave

When first we practice to deceive. - Sir Walter Scott (Marmion, 1808)

Who's deceiving? Who is telling the truth? Since I posed the question - Nietzsche can provide his perspective....

"What then is truth? A mobile army of metaphors, metonyms, and anthropomorphisms -- in short, a sum of human relations, which have been enhanced, transposed, and embellished poetically and rhetorically, and which after long use seem firm, canonical, and obligatory to a people: truths are illusions about which one has forgotten that is what they are; metaphors which are worn out and without sensuous power; coins which have lost their pictures and now matter only as metal, no longer as coins.

We still do not know where the urge for truth comes from; for as yet we have heard only of the obligation imposed by society that it should exist: to be truthful means using the customary metaphors - in moral terms, the obligation to lie according to fixed convention, to lie herd-like in a style obligatory for all..."

'On truth and lie in an extra-moral sense,' The Viking Portable Nietzsche, p.46-7, Walter Kaufmann transl.

[sparebox2]

When was the passport taken from him? If I remember correctly a Thai passport has a validity of 5 years only, they used to be able to extend the validity as there was a page to do it, but in the new ones there is no such page. Or have they issued a new one, it says in the story a new one, but then again it says "gave him back his passport", this to me means old one.

No extension possible on the current e-Passport.

FM gave Thaksin a brand new passport.

I hope he also collect the 1,000 Baht passport fee from Thaksin too.

[JurgenG]

Democrat spokesman Chavanond Intarakomalsut disputed Noppadon Pattama's claim that the Democrat-led government had disseminated false information that Thaksin was on Interpol's "red-notice list" of wanted persons

One just needs to make a search in ThaiVisa to realize that these false information were widely disseminated here courtesy of a number of posters.

Now, who was at the origin of these rumors ? Obviously, the same people who were repeatedly condemned for defamation with, as usual, the democrats turning a blind eye because it was their interest.

[sparebox2]

Democrat spokesman Chavanond Intarakomalsut disputed Noppadon Pattama's claim that the Democrat-led government had disseminated false information that Thaksin was on Interpol's "red-notice list" of wanted persons

One just needs to make a search in ThaiVisa to realize that these false information were widely disseminated here courtesy of a number of posters.

Now, who was at the origin of these rumors ? Obviously, the same people who were repeatedly condemned for defamation with, as usual, the democrats turning a blind eye because it was their interest.

Democrats never turn a blind eye. If it is not true, Mark will admit it.

[wxyz]

and Thaksin sings,

I'm dreamin' tonight of a place I love, Even more then I usually do

And although I know it's a long road back, I promise you

I'll be home for Christmas, You can plan on me

Please have snow and mistletoe, And presents on the tree

Christmas Eve will find me, Where the lovelight gleams

I'll be home for Christmas, If only in my dreams

Bing Crosby - "I'll Be Home For Christmas"

[animatic]

Kinda like in the states the Republicans have Rush Limbaugh.

What suprised me is Noppadon Pattama's being accused of distorting the truth.

Are they saying or even mildly suggesting that Thaksin would hire some one who was not scrupulously honest.

The whole thing goes to show What Thaksin thinks of Thai's tell them any ridicules thing and they will believe it.

Problem is there is enough that do to get him elected.

"Scrupulously honest" Politicians are hard to find least of all Democrat ones (e.g Suthep) but here's some more from a PAD site regarding the "arrest warrants" apparently issued by Interpol according to the Democrat FM Kasit's assistant who was sent on a special mission to the UAE

The Foreign Ministry of the United of Arab Emirates (UAE) is ready to cooperate with the Thai government in extraditing outlawed former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, Foreign Minister Kasit Piromya's assistant Panit Wikitset said on Thursday.

Mr Panit and Deputy Commerce Minister Alongkorn Ponlaboot were assigned by Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva as special envoys to forward the arrest warrants for Thaksin to the UAE Foreign Ministry and police.

The envoys visited Abu Dhabi from Sunday to Tuesday and were tasked with negotiating with the UAE authorities to extradite the ousted premier.

Mr Panit said the UAE government had already received the arrest warrants for Thaksin from the International Criminal Police Organisation, or Interpol.

Mr Panit said he had briefed Foreign Minister Kasit on the negotiations.

http://antithaksin.w...eft-to-liberia/

Seems that somebody is being economical with the truth here, and it's not Noppadon.

Or as simply Thaksin paid off someone to not extradite him,

easier than the government could get away with it to send him back.

[phiphidon]

Kinda like in the states the Republicans have Rush Limbaugh.

What suprised me is Noppadon Pattama's being accused of distorting the truth.

Are they saying or even mildly suggesting that Thaksin would hire some one who was not scrupulously honest.

The whole thing goes to show What Thaksin thinks of Thai's tell them any ridicules thing and they will believe it.

Problem is there is enough that do to get him elected.

"Scrupulously honest" Politicians are hard to find least of all Democrat ones (e.g Suthep) but here's some more from a PAD site regarding the "arrest warrants" apparently issued by Interpol according to the Democrat FM Kasit's assistant who was sent on a special mission to the UAE

The Foreign Ministry of the United of Arab Emirates (UAE) is ready to cooperate with the Thai government in extraditing outlawed former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, Foreign Minister Kasit Piromya's assistant Panit Wikitset said on Thursday.

Mr Panit and Deputy Commerce Minister Alongkorn Ponlaboot were assigned by Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva as special envoys to forward the arrest warrants for Thaksin to the UAE Foreign Ministry and police.

The envoys visited Abu Dhabi from Sunday to Tuesday and were tasked with negotiating with the UAE authorities to extradite the ousted premier.

Mr Panit said the UAE government had already received the arrest warrants for Thaksin from the International Criminal Police Organisation, or Interpol.

Mr Panit said he had briefed Foreign Minister Kasit on the negotiations.

http://antithaksin.w...eft-to-liberia/

Seems that somebody is being economical with the truth here, and it's not Noppadon.

Or as simply Thaksin paid off someone to not extradite him,

easier than the government could get away with it to send him back.

So you conveniently ignore the the fact that the Democrats said that they had sent arrest warrants via Interpol and that the UAE had received them . A blatant lie as Interpol have already denied that Thaksin had been placed on a Red List, they have never had such a request - so that he could be arrested in a foreign country and then arrangements for deportation could be made.

But hey it's so much easier to claim that Thaksin paid someone off. If I had posted that people would be all over me asking for proof.

[animatic]

Mr Panit and Deputy Commerce Minister Alongkorn Ponlaboot were assigned by Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva as special envoys to forward the arrest warrants for Thaksin to the UAE Foreign Ministry and police.

The envoys visited Abu Dhabi from Sunday to Tuesday and were tasked with negotiating with the UAE authorities to extradite the ousted premier.

It seems, sadly, you don't seem to read my actual words,

only believing your knee-jerk interpretation of a quick, yet erroneous, scan.

I was talking about the UAE warrant delivery. I never mentioned the Interpol one,

because I wasn't talking about that.

Did I actually say 'Thaksin paid someone off',or simply raise it as a possibility?

Yes, the latter, not the former.

Of course it is NOT so easy to believe;

'Thaksin wouldn't pay off someone to protect his hidey hole if that was to his benefit.' LOL

Whether the 'Special Envoys' actually accomplished what they were 'tasked with' is an open story. They were "tasked with negotiating with the UAE authorities" Sounds like a 3 way business deal to me.

[phiphidon]

Mr Panit and Deputy Commerce Minister Alongkorn Ponlaboot were assigned by Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva as special envoys to forward the arrest warrants for Thaksin to the UAE Foreign Ministry and police.

The envoys visited Abu Dhabi from Sunday to Tuesday and were tasked with negotiating with the UAE authorities to extradite the ousted premier.

I was talking about the UAE warrant delivery.

I never mentioned the Interpol one,

because I wasn't talking about that.

Your reply was to my post which stated that Noppadon wasn't the one lying. I would have realised what your reply was about if you had highlighted the part of my post you were actually replying to, hence the confusion.

However I was replying in a thread who's topic is the democrats accusing Noppadon of lying. My reply showed the opposite action had actually taken place.

Your reply is based on, what exactly? Your assumption that Thaksin paid someone off, presumably in the UAE, to avoid extradition. Either the UAE has an extradition treaty with Thailand or it doesn't. They don't.

The other paper gave more details at the time stating that Abhisit had sent the "special envoys" to deliver the arrest warrants to the UAE.