Employee Afriad To Be Alone.

[4evermaat]

The thai gf and I have a massage shop near Chumphon Town. It has been open now for about two months now appx and it has been an interesting experience.

We had one person come from bangkok with husband and went back 3 days later claiming she saw some ghost in the shop standing in the corner. Had another person come all the way from Ubon Ratchathani and he left after a couple of days because he was afraid of something moving in the roof at night. (trapped bird or squirrel). I have slept in the shop once and had zero problems. I heard the squirrel on the roof for all but about 15 minutes.

I'm thinking the best way to grow business (in general) and find help is to reach out to other local business and friends and hand out flyers/coupons....let people know we are there and also ask for help. I'm also thinking about local markets, super market, train station, bus station, bulletin boards, employment office. Any ideas? Not all thai people seem to use internet for employment classifieds, or perhaps I need to go beyond cragislist/thaivisa ads? I was even considering a mini-internship at high school/college.

I find it difficult to believe that people who want income would bail after 2-3 days. We did have a promising candidate that was with us for over 1 month. It all fell apart when we went out of town for 3 days. (boyfriend got jealous of her working alone [or so I'm told], etc. Bailed on the second day (at least she called) out of town. Then she was supposed to come back, and gf gave her money 500 baht to take bus back (did not discuss with me first...I would have said hell no [worker just got her monthly check]). The worker has not shown up

A lot of this sounds silly when you are on the outside looking in. I know with my business experience it can be difficult to find the RIGHT KIND of help, but I think my gf also not . Even though her mom now has gotten in a terrible motorbike accident (happened about 1 week ago), she needs to understand now more than ever why she begged me to open this shop in the first place "make money more and take care family and buy something sexi i see in shopping"

All of the suggestions I have made so far (and money) has already brought in customers. And we are lucky to have the shop right off the main road, the lighted sign really helps passerby-rs see day or night new shop. But things like internship and checking around to see where new workers could be found is met with an immediate "cannot". No attempts to even explore the possibilities are made without threatening to withhold future funding. Only to find out that my suggestions usually work or bring us closer to her goal of more customers. There has to be a line drawn between saving face and making money.

[jybkk]

Thank you for sharing.

You're not alone. It is very difficult to find reliable employees here in Thailand. While Thais show a lot of respects for their boss, loyalty doesn't seem to be a part of it. It's a factor you have to factor in... And make sure you reward those who show what would be seen in the West as "normal" loyalty to the company.

Additionally, your experience illustrates something you hear a lot in Thailand: "you have to run your own business". Thais are always talking about that, and even if they are employees in some corporation with a decent pay, they will try to run their own business. I've seen many putting incredible amount of time and energy (demonstrating that Thais are not lazy) only to break even in the end. It doesn't matter: "you have to run your own business". it's another important social status marker here. This explains the success of pyramid schemes like Amway here, they always start with the slightly accusatory "Don't you want to make more money and take care of your family?". And it works. (for them, not so much for the recruits).

Well, I've seen many foreigners trying to open their little business, and while not many failed, most realized that it is almost impossible to actually make substantial money out of it. Live off it, yes. Save money? Very difficult. Probably because most of Thais are still looking for the cheapest and are not yet ready to pay a bit premium for, let's say, better service or quality. And you can't compete on prices with all the local businesses, even if you manage to streamline your business and bring more innovative ways of advertising or anything. It's going to be very difficult unless you target people with more money: upper class bangkokians, trendy middle-class wannabe, expats, tourists.

[aussiebebe]

You seem to need a more hands-on approach - you can't be going 'out of town' for a mini-break when your shop has been open for less than two months. Your employees who bailed probably felt under-trained and over-worked if they were left in sole charge of your massage shop after a few days, but who knows.

Most Thais are scared of ghosts, I'm assuming you got the shop 'blessed' and put up one of those little shelves, right?

Just drawing on what jybkk mentioned, targeting wealthy clientele is one strategy which I have seen often in Bangkok malls where small businesses have offset the increased mall rates with more customers, higher prices and - as a peculiar oddity of the massage industry in Thailand - generous tips. Worldwide I'd say American's are the most generous, mostly leaving 15% gratuity, but for some reason Thais go crazing tipping after a massage - up to 100-200% of the cost. I've never visited Surin, but the prime location would be a mall as massage fits well into the lifestyle scene.

[djayz]

I can't help you regarding the employee issue but this story reminds me of something I experienced last year. My gf and I went to see a building in Hua Hin that I wanted to rent and turn into a guesthouse and restaurant. Anyway, there was an old Thai lady sitting outside her shop (right next to the building I was looking at) and she told my gf that somebody died in the building and the place was haunted. I don't believe in this gibberish but it sure scared the bejesus out of my gf. Have you thought about a person in your town/on your street scaring your employees with ghost stories? Many Thais seem to be really superstitious. Maybe a grumpy Thai who doesn't want a foreigner succeeding, maybe the competition. Have you had a chance to talk to your former employees about the "ghosts"?

[dave111223]

1) Thai's hate working alone in general. It's just not really "done" here. You really need to hire at least 2 employees.

2) Even i wouldn't want to work in a massage shop by myself. What happens if some fat sweaty bloke comes in and wants a little extra and won't take "no" for an answer; really not much a petite Thai girl can do about it; very vulnerable situation.

3) Thai's will never give you the true reason why they are quitting. It will almost always be "Sick mother/father", "Need go back home", "Ghost"...anything but "This job sucks"

4) Why is your employee at the shop at night? They are sleeping there...? There have to work very late hours...?

5) As foreigners we tend to think "money solves all problems", and just pay people more and we will get better staff. Doesn't seem to work in Thailand; i have found the better approach to pay them low, hire many, and make them do less work.

[Fookhaht]

A normal Thai fear of ghosts should not be lumped in with your description of "bad employees." Yes, good employees are hard to find, but they will all probably be scared to stay alone at your business out of normal fears most Thais suffer. At the least, they have an aversion to being alone, period.

I work in a uni. office with about 25 Thai Ph.D.'s, most of whom earned their doctorates in the west. Not a one will stay by themselves at night in our office for fear of ghosts. These are "westernized" Thais. So, good luck finding a Thai John Wayne in your search for someone to go it alone at your place of business.

[Rama]

In Chiang Mai they have a massage shop that is staffed by all blind people. They do a better massage, are extremely loyal and come to work every day. They are thankful for having a job with a steady income. Many people go to the shop because they realize this. You may want to consider this.

On another note, they also won't see ghosts.

[Fookhaht]

On another note, they also won't see ghosts.

Strike out! Every Thai knows you can feel 'em before you see 'em!

[Mystory]

My advise is your sitting on a gold mine with this ghost story, start up the ghost story with a person had a massage there and then bought a winning lotto ticket and it was because of the ghost in the shop. You will have thousands of people in there.

[jamescollister]

Finding and keeping Thai workers is a nightmare. The ones that stay don't care about the money as long as it is enough. They stay because they like the people they work with and the owner/boss treats them like family. A hard line to follow for our western minds. Workers sitting eating Som Tam, talking etc, is just the way. You have to live with it or you will soon have no workers left. Jim

[sbk]

We had an employee like that, she couldn't be left alone at night, even for a few hours. We finally let her go out if we went out and closed up but we were relieved when she left the job. Many Thais just don't like to be alone.

[4evermaat]

Thank you for sharing.

You're not alone. It is very difficult to find reliable employees here in Thailand. While Thais show a lot of respects for their boss, loyalty doesn't seem to be a part of it. It's a factor you have to factor in... And make sure you reward those who show what would be seen in the West as "normal" loyalty to the company.

..........

Well, I've seen many foreigners trying to open their little business, and while not many failed, most realized that it is almost impossible to actually make substantial money out of it. Live off it, yes. Save money? Very difficult. Probably because most of Thais are still looking for the cheapest and are not yet ready to pay a bit premium for, let's say, better service or quality. And you can't compete on prices with all the local businesses, even if you manage to streamline your business and bring more innovative ways of advertising or anything. It's going to be very difficult unless you target people with more money: upper class bangkokians, trendy middle-class wannabe, expats, tourists.

Another owner confirmed the difficulty of finding good help. Especially we are not in the town. (we are in a smaller town Saphli). Tesco and other larger established companies have no problem because they have air condition, stable paycheck, easy work, near the main road/town. If you are not in a high-traffic area, it can be tough. You can go 3-4 months without having work.

The customer base does not seem to be the primary issue right now. Good help is. Luckily my gf still has several prospects that will be passing through before/after new years.

I was given a recommendation to find some Laos/Burma/Cambodian workers (maybe 1-2). They may be much more loyal, especially if you provide room and board. What do you think of this?

You seem to need a more hands-on approach - you can't be going 'out of town' for a mini-break when your shop has been open for less than two months. Your employees who bailed probably felt under-trained and over-worked if they were left in sole charge of your massage shop after a few days, but who knows.

Most Thais are scared of ghosts, I'm assuming you got the shop 'blessed' and put up one of those little shelves, right?

...........

The trip was already scheduled. The gf does not like me being alone (jealousy reasons). The help looked promising and it was sort of a test anyway. Besides, what could possibly go wrong in 2-3 days? . She wasn't fully alone. She actually had somewhere to go at night (bf) that was actually a room on the other side of the shop. Supposedly bf and her had a fallout....whatever. She was the most promising of all of them. We got just about a month out of her. And she did everything no problem as was getting really good at massage. She appeared promising, but like I said earlier (or maybe I forgot to mention), we all wear social masks.

I guess if you don't have any wants, then having no money is not a problem. It's only when you are wanting you go for a job to make money and give you more wants.

What i found interesting was that several part time massage ladies who applied wanted a "phone-in" privileged. In other words, they want to not come at all, except when there is customer. And they must have xxx baht or else they are not coming. Well Excuse me . I have informed the gf no more of those (i don't think there are any now anyway....way to UN-reliable). The massage shop in the town accepted part time, but there was ZERO pay if you didn't have any customers, and the full-time people always went first. You have to work your way up. I might offer something if they stay for minimum of x hours and did not have any customers, which is much better than most shops i've seen (for part time work).

I wonder what some of these people are doing to make money anyway, if some of them are being so 'picky'?

I can't help you regarding the employee issue but this story reminds me of something I experienced last year. My gf and I went to see a building in Hua Hin that I wanted to rent and turn into a guesthouse and restaurant. Anyway, there was an old Thai lady sitting outside her shop (right next to the building I was looking at) and she told my gf that somebody died in the building and the place was haunted. I don't believe in this gibberish but it sure scared the bejesus out of my gf. Have you thought about a person in your town/on your street scaring your employees with ghost stories? Many Thais seem to be really superstitious. Maybe a grumpy Thai who doesn't want a foreigner succeeding, maybe the competition. Have you had a chance to talk to your former employees about the "ghosts"?

I don't speak the thai well (I should by now, I know). I was talking with another thai person and farang who own a restaurant on the beach I found out that quite a few shops, including the one we have has a "ghost story" They are not uncommon around here . Even my gf was a little nervous staying in the shop alone. I had to take the motorbike so that she would stay in the shop the other day, insisting that if she wants to "be the boss" she must set example. The whole "alone in the shop" thing would be occasional. Not something that would have to happen everyday.

Gf advised that she has more help on the way a little before and more after the new year.

[4evermaat]

1) Thai's hate working alone in general. It's just not really "done" here. You really need to hire at least 2 employees.

2) Even i wouldn't want to work in a massage shop by myself. What happens if some fat sweaty bloke comes in and wants a little extra and won't take "no" for an answer; really not much a petite Thai girl can do about it; very vulnerable situation.

3) Thai's will never give you the true reason why they are quitting. It will almost always be "Sick mother/father", "Need go back home", "Ghost"...anything but "This job sucks"

4) Why is your employee at the shop at night? They are sleeping there...? There have to work very late hours...?

5) As foreigners we tend to think "money solves all problems", and just pay people more and we will get better staff. Doesn't seem to work in Thailand; i have found the better approach to pay them low, hire many, and make them do less work.

They will not be alone unless a run to the town, or if they stay in the shop, overnight. They have a full kitchen, dvd player with movies, air condition (if needed), and I'm working on getting a hot water shower unit installed and western toilet. It's a very clean and comfortable place to stay. We run a professional shop. if you want to do something outside the shop, that's your business.

Finding and keeping Thai workers is a nightmare. The ones that stay don't care about the money as long as it is enough. They stay because they like the people they work with and the owner/boss treats them like family. A hard line to follow for our western minds. Workers sitting eating Som Tam, talking etc, is just the way. You have to live with it or you will soon have no workers left. Jim

We had an employee like that, she couldn't be left alone at night, even for a few hours. We finally let her go out if we went out and closed up but we were relieved when she left the job. Many Thais just don't like to be alone.

I do understand that money is not everything. My gf was cooking 2 meals a day (I encouraged only 1) and the camaraderie is there. The shop is clean and is actually a nice pad to live in. My gf is a very pleasant person to deal with. It seems finding them is more of a task than keeping them. I bought things like washing machine to take care of the laborious repetitive tasks (gf/previous boss were washing all those sheets by hand before and when we first took over the shop), so the focus can be on the massage, advertising, etc.

[soi41]

My dear 4evermatt.

You have really many things to learn. I run 2 massageshops in Hua Hin and have about 40 girls working for me. First shop opened 8 years ago, and I did exactly the same mistakes as you: trying to apply western ways of doing things. They all said yes to my face and kept doing things the Thai way. Result: the only one with headache was me, after realizing that I left the running of the business more and more i the hands of my Thai wife, and surprise, surprise the business was thriving. We actually have staff who has been with us since we opened. On the other side we have had girls who stayed for 3 hours and left, when they realized we were not selling "extras". (at least not to my knowledge). So leave it to your gf to run the shop, give her advice, which she might listen to or not. And stay AWAY from the shop, customers are not interested in meeting a male farang, when they go for their small sessions. I go to my shops twice a month, when we pay the staff, my wife could easily do that, I only do it for security reasons. (A lot of cash in highseason). As a result of the all above my wife leaves home about 3-4 pm and comes home around midnight every day for many years now. We have got used to that way of living, so if your gf only wants the shop to become "madame", forget it ! To get good staff, you need to make sure they can have at least two customers/staff/day all year round. I take for granted that you know that normal pay is 100 B per worked hour and wages are paid every two weeks. Every time I pay my staff, I am surprised how much it differs from the really good earners (6000 baht/2weeks) to the lazy ones (1200 baht/2weeks), how the latter survive ? Probably by turning tricks in their sparetime, they are just using the shop as a fishingpond.

Good luck !!

[djayz]

My dear 4evermatt.

You have really many things to learn. I run 2 massageshops in Hua Hin and have about 40 girls working for me. First shop opened 8 years ago, and I did exactly the same mistakes as you: trying to apply western ways of doing things. They all said yes to my face and kept doing things the Thai way. Result: the only one with headache was me, after realizing that I left the running of the business more and more i the hands of my Thai wife, and surprise, surprise the business was thriving. We actually have staff who has been with us since we opened. On the other side we have had girls who stayed for 3 hours and left, when they realized we were not selling "extras". (at least not to my knowledge). So leave it to your gf to run the shop, give her advice, which she might listen to or not. And stay AWAY from the shop, customers are not interested in meeting a male farang, when they go for their small sessions. I go to my shops twice a month, when we pay the staff, my wife could easily do that, I only do it for security reasons. (A lot of cash in highseason). As a result of the all above my wife leaves home about 3-4 pm and comes home around midnight every day for many years now. We have got used to that way of living, so if your gf only wants the shop to become "madame", forget it ! To get good staff, you need to make sure they can have at least two customers/staff/day all year round. I take for granted that you know that normal pay is 100 B per worked hour and wages are paid every two weeks. Every time I pay my staff, I am surprised how much it differs from the really good earners (6000 baht/2weeks) to the lazy ones (1200 baht/2weeks), how the latter survive ? Probably by turning tricks in their sparetime, they are just using the shop as a fishingpond.

Good luck !!

Just out of curiosity: I've always wondered about how the therapists were paid. So is it Baht 100 per hour, irrespective of whether or not they are massaging or just sitting around OR is it Baht 100 per hour when they are actually massaging a customer? Like I said before, just out of curiosity.

[IMA_FARANG]

I'm not trying to be rude....but I'll just bring up the possibility that the three common points with all of the employess lthat left suddenly are:

1. The salary and the working conditions....and

2. Being alone and late hours.....and

3. The "boss".....(you and your wife?)

Read the Sherlock Holmes story, "The Dog Who Didn't Bark", about the watchdog that didn't bark at supposed strangers who robbed a house.

[Briggsy]

Just out of curiosity: I've always wondered about how the therapists were paid. So is it Baht 100 per hour, irrespective of whether or not they are massaging or just sitting around OR is it Baht 100 per hour when they are actually massaging a customer? Like I said before, just out of curiosity.

100 Baht per hour actually massaging is what the punter pays. 50 Baht to the shop, 50 Baht to the masseuse. Masseuse hopes for tip. Sitting around doing nothing is not paid. Some shops provide a 50 Baht daily allowance but you must stay there all day. This will cover extra obligatory duties such as sweeping up. Some shops impose fines for knocking off early, of, say, 100 Baht. Oil massages are 200 Baht per hour, of which 100 Baht to the shop, 100 Baht to the masseuse.

6 days a week or more are usually compulsory.

Here are a couple of examples:

Working day is 10am to 10pm.

3 customers. 1 customer had 2 hours. No oil. The 3 customers tipped 100 Baht, 50 Baht & 20 Baht. The last customer arrived at 9.45pm so the masseuse had to stay till 10.45pm. For this day, she received 4 hours = 4 x 50 = 200 + Tips of 100 + 50 + 20 = 170 + A daily allowance of 50 Baht. The total is 200 + 170 + 50 = 420 Baht.

5 customers. 1 Oil massage. Tips were 200 + 100 + 100 + 50 + 0 (khee neeow). Knackered, clocked off at 7pm. For this day, she received 1 x 100 (oil) + 4 x 50 = 300 + tips of 450 - fine for leaving early of 100 = 300 + 450 - 100 = 650 Baht.

Different shops will of course have differing rates.

I hope this helps.

[Soboringtochooseaname]

I cannot stand their ghost stories anymore and it's a good reason not to work with the non educated poors anymore, but I understand that for some business you have no choice.