The Undocumented Dangers Of Thailand's Roads

[xthAi76s]

^^ Waiting for a one- or perhaps two-liner (from 'someone') to discredit your logic and who sees no fault in the human side of equation, but, rather, will attempt to explain everything away due to bad engineering or something. Of course, engineering that was created by machines (because it couldn't be the people because they are not at fault) and the machines were created by ... (again, not the people) and so on.

Edited February 14, 2012 by ThailandMan

[wolf5370]

^^ Waiting for a one- or perhaps two-liner (from 'someone') to discredit your logic and who sees no fault in the human side of equation, but, rather, will attempt to explain everything away due to bad engineering or something. Of course, engineering that was created by machines (because it couldn't be the people because they are not at fault) and the machines were created by ... (again, not the people) and so on.

lol Rather like "it's turtles all the way down"

[manarak]

I don't see helmets or safety belts as the response, because they don't save other people's lives - just the life of people who wear them.

They should only be compulsory for minors (under 18) not accompanied by a legal guardian.

Above 18, up to the driver/passenger. Som nom na.

Foreigners killing themselves on motorcycles... som nom na as well!

What they really need to do is:

- enforce driving rules, i.e. reckless speeding, sudden turns without signal, safety distance, phone use while driving, etc.

- enforce alc rules, something like 0.8 0/00, so they can have three standard drinks and go home

The problem will be for the police how to punish/make money from the culprits, who are often piss-poor. Any ideas?

you completely miss the point here.

If you are foolhardy enough to not wear the above items, your injuries and or death have both direct and indirect consequences on the rest of us.

Put simply we end up paying either through taxes, insurance premiums and loss of bread earners, or maintaining an injured person.

To suggest that the wearing or not of these items is "up to you" is to take a highly self-centred and myopic attitude to them.

Interesting.

but it is simple really, no helmet or belt at impact = no insurance for self (same as driving without a permit), and I would really have thought that the helmets cause more people to stay alive despite debiitation. that need to be cared for. do statistics prove me wrong?

not only are you wrong but it would also indicate you don't understand the purpose of wearing a helmet in the first place.

maybe you can enlighten me - I always thought the purpose was to improve the wearer's chance of surviving a motorcycle accident.

[cowslip]

I think the chances of "enlightening" you are minimal and certainly not a task I'd want to undertake.

[manarak]

I think the chances of "enlightening" you are minimal and certainly not a task I'd want to undertake.

try with logic.

my logic is: there is no danger for others coming from a motorcycle-riding guy (18+) who wears no helmet.

Firstly - the only person he is potentially harming is himself. So it should be "up to him".

Second, if you do a demographic comparison of people who don't wear a helmet with the other group, I'd say the second group's contribution to society will be more valuable than the first group's.

Third, if the first group dies away in higher numbers than the second, it IMPROVES society. I know it is a philosophical stretch and a cynical view, but the maths are correct, even if the effect is marginal.

But since you believe it is better to override an individual's decision he made over his own life, I think you must be either a dirigist socialist or a green. Both political groups advocate "knowing better" what's good for people and what not. I'd bet you also advocate suppressing more individual liberties in Thailand. Am I right?

Flame away.

Edited February 16, 2012 by manarak

[cowslip]

I think the chances of "enlightening" you are minimal and certainly not a task I'd want to undertake.

try with logic.

my logic is: there is no danger for others coming from a motorcycle-riding guy (18+) who wears no helmet.

Firstly - the only person he is potentially harming is himself. So it should be "up to him".

Second, if you do a demographic comparison of people who don't wear a helmet with the other group, I'd say the second group's contribution to society will be more valuable than the first group's.

Third, if the first group dies away in higher numbers than the second, it IMPROVES society. I know it is a philosophical stretch and a cynical view, but the maths are correct, even if the effect is marginal.

But since you believe it is better to override an individual's decision he made over his own life, I think you must be either a dirigist socialist or a green. Both political groups advocate "knowing better" what's good for people and what not. I'd bet you also advocate suppressing more individual liberties in Thailand. Am I right?

Flame away.

your first assertion is fallacious - so how can the rest of your argument be logical.

THis is a waste of time.

[theblether]

I applaud the mothers campaign......I was particularly touched and horrified by the death of the three young men heading for my favourite city Chiang Mai.

I had a horrific experience on a bus last year and I swore I would never take one again. I fly everywhere, if I can't fly, I don't go.

The campaign will be fobbed off by the Thai authorities.......the success of the campaign will be in forcing the UK tourist industries to take a greater sense of responsibility and duty of care for their customers.

That will happen sooner rather than later.......once that happens the knock on effect to Thai tourism will cause the Thai authorities to pay attention.

[manarak]

I think the chances of "enlightening" you are minimal and certainly not a task I'd want to undertake.

try with logic.

my logic is: there is no danger for others coming from a motorcycle-riding guy (18+) who wears no helmet.

Firstly - the only person he is potentially harming is himself. So it should be "up to him".

Second, if you do a demographic comparison of people who don't wear a helmet with the other group, I'd say the second group's contribution to society will be more valuable than the first group's.

Third, if the first group dies away in higher numbers than the second, it IMPROVES society. I know it is a philosophical stretch and a cynical view, but the maths are correct, even if the effect is marginal.

But since you believe it is better to override an individual's decision he made over his own life, I think you must be either a dirigist socialist or a green. Both political groups advocate "knowing better" what's good for people and what not. I'd bet you also advocate suppressing more individual liberties in Thailand. Am I right?

Flame away.

your first assertion is fallacious - so how can the rest of your argument be logical.

THis is a waste of time.

- you are wrong!

- why?

- because you don't know!

- don't know what? please explain

- but I already told you that you are wrong!

- why?

- because you are!

- why?

- this is a waste of time!

very constructive... don't let arguments get into the way of your opinion

Edited February 18, 2012 by manarak

[wolf5370]

I think the chances of "enlightening" you are minimal and certainly not a task I'd want to undertake.

try with logic.

my logic is: there is no danger for others coming from a motorcycle-riding guy (18+) who wears no helmet.

Firstly - the only person he is potentially harming is himself. So it should be "up to him".

Second, if you do a demographic comparison of people who don't wear a helmet with the other group, I'd say the second group's contribution to society will be more valuable than the first group's.

Third, if the first group dies away in higher numbers than the second, it IMPROVES society. I know it is a philosophical stretch and a cynical view, but the maths are correct, even if the effect is marginal.

But since you believe it is better to override an individual's decision he made over his own life, I think you must be either a dirigist socialist or a green. Both political groups advocate "knowing better" what's good for people and what not. I'd bet you also advocate suppressing more individual liberties in Thailand. Am I right?

Flame away.

I agree with the logic, however it must also be realised that people are generally sheep - if they see people getting away without riding helmets then they do too - especially the young. These youngsters may grow up into valuable members of society - they may move off bikes when they finish uni and get a job - or they may die in an accident. If there was better enforcement, then the more intelligent or those more abiding of laws, will comply and wear helmets (and thus more sheep will follow their example instead) and that filtering you mention would be much finer grained with a smaller error rate.

[KKvampire]

It is negligent that foreign consulates donot advice their citizens against van travel and bus travel in the dark outside of bangkok,because....do I really need to say?

Posted with Thaivisa App http://apps.thaivisa.com

[manarak]

I agree with the logic, however it must also be realised that people are generally sheep - if they see people getting away without riding helmets then they do too - especially the young. These youngsters may grow up into valuable members of society - they may move off bikes when they finish uni and get a job - or they may die in an accident. If there was better enforcement, then the more intelligent or those more abiding of laws, will comply and wear helmets (and thus more sheep will follow their example instead) and that filtering you mention would be much finer grained with a smaller error rate.

I agree, therefore I wrote 18+. I think helmets should be mandatory for minors unaccompanied by a legal guardian, and that police should be particularly aggressive enforcing that rule. Furthermore, I think parents' role is very important in protecting their children and making sure they wear their helmets. I couldn't care less if the "Rebelz" and other "Gangstahs" don't.

[WarpSpeed]

So now a few bereaved British mothers want to make the "escape" destination the same as the origin of the British tourists? Why come here in the first place then? Most come here to get away from the nanny state and the over-legislation of the west even if only for a short respite... My heart goes out but you pays your money and you takes your chances... That applies to ANY destination....

[bangkokrick]

I think that the biggest problem with driving in Thailand is the fact that the highway lights are not switched on. There are long stretches of road where people are driving in the dark, so consequently they drive on full beam, so as a driver I can't see in the rear view mirror and the onward coming traffic is blinding me with full beam. The highway lights are in situe, so why the hell don't they turn them on? I drove from Bangkok to Pattaya 2 days ago and it was a nightmare.

[PingManDan]

Life is "CHEAP" here in Thailand, usually 30,000 - 50,000 THB, paid to Thai famlies, for a road kill.

[cowslip]

<p>

So now a few bereaved British mothers want to make the &quot;escape&quot; destination the same as the origin of the British tourists? Why come here in the first place then? Most come here to get away from the nanny state and the over-legislation of the west even if only for a short respite... My heart goes out but you pays your money and you takes your chances... That applies to ANY destination....

</p>

<p>&nbsp;</p>

THis is possibly the most facile answer of the thread - well done!

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Edited February 22, 2012 by cowslip

[manarak]

<p>

So now a few bereaved British mothers want to make the &quot;escape&quot; destination the same as the origin of the British tourists? Why come here in the first place then? Most come here to get away from the nanny state and the over-legislation of the west even if only for a short respite... My heart goes out but you pays your money and you takes your chances... That applies to ANY destination....

</p>

<p>&nbsp;</p>

THis is possibly the most facile answer of the thread - well done!

<div id="myEventWatcherDiv" style="display:none;">&nbsp;</div>

I think you just topped it - although the out of place HTML tags look a bit "difficult"

Edited February 22, 2012 by manarak

[cowslip]

<p>

So now a few bereaved British mothers want to make the &quot;escape&quot; destination the same as the origin of the British tourists? Why come here in the first place then? Most come here to get away from the nanny state and the over-legislation of the west even if only for a short respite... My heart goes out but you pays your money and you takes your chances... That applies to ANY destination....

</p>

<p>&nbsp;</p>

THis is possibly the most facile answer of the thread - well done!

<div id="myEventWatcherDiv" style="display:none;">&nbsp;</div>

I think you just topped it - although the out of place HTML tags look a bit "difficult"

please explain

[anon210]

Awakening an old thread just to show another example of driving in Thailand: this bike was shot within BKK...And it is very thai, not unlike the Chinese bike shown in this thread.

[MaxLee]

Thailand has a long untold history of infrastructure problems, that haven't been solved for years, and were rugged under the table, in order to accept money under the table among the corruption parties.

Those infrastructure problems endanger the lives of many innocent people, whose families will never get compensated....

[cowslip]

Thailand has a long untold history of infrastructure problems, that haven't been solved for years, and were rugged under the table, in order to accept money under the table among the corruption parties.

Those infrastructure problems endanger the lives of many innocent people, whose families will never get compensated....

perhaps you could tell us???

[61guitarman61]

Let's speak clearly and frankly. There are the trappings of rules of the road. There are lines painted dividing lanes. But there is no lane. You can drive in "your" lane, on the painted line, in the oncoming lane, even in the oncoming lane with oncoming traffic if you so desire. A simple toot of your horn is all that's necessary to claim the right of way.

The pecking order is basically the same as in the natural world of nature: biggest to smallest. Trucks are king. You better just get the heck out of the way. Then pickup trucks, then cars. Motorbikes are treated as a nuisance without a right to be on the roadway with real vehicles. You will be cut off, side-swiped, pulled out in front of, crowded out of your lane, and if the bigger vehicle chooses, driven at, head on, so they can pass a vehicle that is going too slow for their liking. Bicycles and pedestrians, go out at your own risk.

Vehicles of all sizes and types drive the wrong way on one way streets, the wrong way on divided highways, stop wherever they please, back up on high speed highways, u-turn across all lanes from the far left lane ---- basically, they do anything they please. Stop sign? Hahahaha! Stop light? Means pause. Turning left into traffic is done without ever even glancing to the right first. Speed? "Today I feel slow." "Today I feel fast." "Today I DID feel slow, but you were going TOO slow, so now I will put my foot through the floor on the accelerator pedal and cut you off in the process!"

Yes, I am very very prejudiced about Thai drivers and law enforcement. In 2011, I was in a motorbike accident and almost died. I was cut off by a tandem trailer gravel truck that made an illegal u-turn from the far left lane on a 4 lane high speed highway. The driver also did not signal his turn. The criminal proceeding in the case determined that the driver was wrong and gave him 1 year in jail. However, the judge also decided that, even though my speed was estimated at 50kmh, and the normal traffic speed was 70kmh, I was partially to blame because I was going too fast. I was fined 1000baht. I now have permanent disabilities as the result of this accident and cannot work my business in America any longer. I may receive some money in the civil case, but the company that owns the truck is a large, well funded company, so I may not receive even 1 baht. I will not be able to pursue the case until the driver's appeal is complete, perhaps in a year or two.

Conclusion: BE VERY CAREFUL IF YOU ARE GOING TO DRIVE. And if you, as a foreigner, are found to be the wrong party in an accident, hold onto your wallet and bank account,,,,,,,,,,,,