The Undocumented Dangers Of Thailand's Roads

[cowslip]

As ever a tragedy like this presents an opportunity for TV members to post their infantile and simplistic theories on road safety. It is really an insult to those who died.

[Cantankerous]

Good luck to the mothers of the young men who died needlessly, I don't think it will change much here though, how else are "tourists" going to get around other than by a speeding bus...

Took a ride out yesterday on my bike (route 323 to "3 pagodas pass"), almost wiped out twice by tourist buses overtaking a queue of vehicles into oncoming traffic (Tez/Pegas tours), heading from Sai Yok Noi to Kanchanaburi on my way out. Heading back it was smaller mini vans and pick ups doing the same thing. Tour bus companies could be regulated and required by law to install "drive right" type devices into their vehicles, but how would they manage to cram so much into a day trip?

Educating drivers here good luck, in the past 8 days I've witnessed 3 avoidable accidents on the roads around Ratchaburi, one of which the pick up reversed off the guy (ouch) on a Honda Wave that the pick up pulled out on at a junction.

Everything in life involves risk, just a shame that it is usually down to the ignorance of others when things go wrong and lives are shattered...

Comparisons of driving globally, how can anyone really compare? No matter where you live, we now live in a global community, people from all over at different levels and standards are driving everywhere on their own country's lisence or without. I was hit twice in the UK while riding motorbikes. Both occasions by non UK citizens, both of them at fault, both left the scene, niether insured, both caught, neither prosecuted (?), no recovery of losses, who'd live in London...

How do you solve this global problem?

[Thunder26]

I've driven in Thailand for 5 years and I don't want to compare with another countries even if I had driven before. Let's stick to Thailand and I would say most of the drivers drive appallingly bad here. It's a fact. Daily I see cars reversing because they missed the exit from a highway while the other cars drive about 120 km/h. First of all it's illegal and so dangerous. They don't give a <deleted>. Furthermore what pisses me off is the tailing or aggressive driving. Daily I witness this. I see many drivers, while having a speed above 100km/h are driving very close 1-2m to the car in front. It's not just stupid but it's suicidal. So far I was hit by the other drivers twice a year for no reason whatsoever. Most of all I am hit from behind while I'm waiting the traffic lights, wading through the traffic or hit by reversing cars who forget to look in the mirrors. Once I was hit from behind because of emergency breaking I had because of an accident in front of me at the same time. I managed not to hit the car in front of me. Bu the f***er who was tailing me smashed into my car.

Talking about the present driving in Bangkok and Nonthaburi, as I drive mostly in these places went down the hill. The driving is worse than 5 years ago, especially now. Thailand is really f***ed up because of the floods. If in the past they would cover a pothole in 2 days, now because of floods the potholes are still there for more than a month. I don't talk about small potholes, I am talking about criminal potholes, 1.5 m large and 40 cm deep.

That was my rant, anyway be safe and watch out while you are driving, look in the mirrors all the time and be very careful if you change the lane or turn, as there are motorcycles appearing from nowhere or driving the opposite direction of the traffic.

[eagleflyinghigh]

As an alternative to (justified but useless) Thai bashing may I suggest that we foreigners adjust to the conditions making the best of ithem:

In 12 years of Thailand I never took a bus or minibus and fly only Thai Airways (not their crap competitors) if possible.

Taking a taxi in Bangkok I sit on the front seat and engage the driver in conversation. This makes me keep control of the situation and I can wear seatbelts.

Otherwise when renting or later on owning a car I am not only careful for myself but also allow for the others to make mistakes, I call it "fluid defensive" driving and I was lucky with that during a long period. The only accident while I was in a car was my driver hitting a motorbike and killing an elderly man. I generously paid the family much more than what the court claimed and am even more careful since then (with my driver on the left seat except for parking....).

[hellodolly]

Let me get this straight it was all sorted out by the family in pickup.

Two days later they go to police

now they are getting a lawyer.

Why I thought it was all sorted out.

You seem to be surrounded by death.

Yes, which part are you trying to have an issue with?

The three people on a scooter were hit by a drunk who left their bodies in the road to die a slow death, no ambulance or police came, the family found out about it by someone who passed by the scene and told the family that they were lying in the road, the family went there in their pickup and took the bodies to hospital themselves. Next day was a funeral, the day after they went to the police station. After the guy who hit them turned himself in and it was apparent the police were not going to do anything they are trying to get a lawyer.

Which part is confusing you?

Can you stick to one story.

First you say and i cut and paste your words.

no ambulance or police came and it was all sorted out by her family in pickup,

I took that to mean they had it all sorted out hence the confusion with the rest of that particular story.

[BookMan]

I've driven in Thailand for 5 years and I don't want to compare with another countries even if I had driven before. Let's stick to Thailand and I would say most of the drivers drive appallingly bad here. It's a fact. Daily I see cars reversing because they missed the exit from a highway while the other cars drive about 120 km/h. First of all it's illegal and so dangerous. They don't give a <deleted>. Furthermore what pisses me off is the tailing or aggressive driving. Daily I witness this. I see many drivers, while having a speed above 100km/h are driving very close 1-2m to the car in front. It's not just stupid but it's suicidal. So far I was hit by the other drivers twice a year for no reason whatsoever. Most of all I am hit from behind while I'm waiting the traffic lights, wading through the traffic or hit by reversing cars who forget to look in the mirrors. Once I was hit from behind because of emergency breaking I had because of an accident in front of me at the same time. I managed not to hit the car in front of me. Bu the f***er who was tailing me smashed into my car.

Talking about the present driving in Bangkok and Nonthaburi, as I drive mostly in these places went down the hill. The driving is worse than 5 years ago, especially now. Thailand is really f***ed up because of the floods. If in the past they would cover a pothole in 2 days, now because of floods the potholes are still there for more than a month. I don't talk about small potholes, I am talking about criminal potholes, 1.5 m large and 40 cm deep.

That was my rant, anyway be safe and watch out while you are driving, look in the mirrors all the time and be very careful if you change the lane or turn, as there are motorcycles appearing from nowhere or driving the opposite direction of the traffic.

and a good rant it was!

[KunMatt]

Let me get this straight it was all sorted out by the family in pickup.

Two days later they go to police

now they are getting a lawyer.

Why I thought it was all sorted out.

You seem to be surrounded by death.

Yes, which part are you trying to have an issue with?

The three people on a scooter were hit by a drunk who left their bodies in the road to die a slow death, no ambulance or police came, the family found out about it by someone who passed by the scene and told the family that they were lying in the road, the family went there in their pickup and took the bodies to hospital themselves. Next day was a funeral, the day after they went to the police station. After the guy who hit them turned himself in and it was apparent the police were not going to do anything they are trying to get a lawyer.

Which part is confusing you?

Can you stick to one story.

First you say and i cut and paste your words.

no ambulance or police came and it was all sorted out by her family in pickup,

I took that to mean they had it all sorted out hence the confusion with the rest of that particular story.

By " it was all sorted out by her family in pickup" I mean the family of the victim drove to the scene and took them to the hospital themselves because no ambulance or police came.

The point of this all was these three fatalities will not be included in any official road death figures, or covered by any news anywhere despite it including two young children and a drunk hit and run, frankly because the police do not care. So any released figures will definitely be wrong.

[hehehoho]

People complaining about being hit from behind.

I was front-ended on my motorbike, by a car that reversed right over me as opposed to checking their mirrors.

I find that the average driving I see here would only be done by very, very, dumb and simple people, that possibly have the IQ of a not fully developed adult or suffer from some sort of mental retardation.

Edited December 29, 2011 by hehehoho

[hellodolly]

Munch has been said here and some truths also.

In regard to the action being taken by the mothers it makes no difference if it helps at all.

As a parent who has lost his son in a road accident in Canada I can assure you that it is giving the mothers a sense of relief and purpose. My hat is off to them.Until one has been there you can never understand.

[DP25]

Pretty amusing an article that seeks to tell about the 'undocumented' dangers of the road (they are well documented), and completely fails to document the primary cause of all these deaths. MOTORCYCLES. They sell more motorbikes in one month in Thailand than they do in one year in the UK. And the bikes in Thailand are the primary means of transportation for many, in the UK for many they are just recreation with their car the primary means. This results in literally MILLIONS of more bikes on the roads every day in Thailand than there are in the UK. This means there will be dramatically more deaths. It extends to other countries with high motorbike usage as well, Taiwan has more traffic fatalities per year than the UK too and they have 1/3rd the population

[nikster]

Condolences to the families of the deceased - what a tragedy.

Easy to say nothing will change but don't underestimate mothers. Buses from professional bus companies, in particular, could be made to follow road laws. Backpackers will probably still go with the cheapest option though.

Other than that, I agree that the travel guides should have more warnings about Thailand road traffic. I'd imagine that the high death rates come mostly from un-helmeted motorcycles. But bus drivers are notoriously overworked and don't have enough sleep, and if there are regulations then you can be sure that no-one's taking them seriously. Bus travel is certainly more dangerous in Thailand than in the west.

[tukkytuktuk]

Easy remedies to Thailand's road accidents are:-

1) Wear a helmet when travelling on a motorbike.

2) Wear a seatbelt when travelling in a car.

3) Look both ways when crossing a road.

4) Cross a busy road by using the nearest foot bridge.

5) Keep your vehicle maintained regulary.

6) Don't drink and drive.

7) Be aware that minor roads may have pot holes.

8) Don't drive when your tired.

9) Follow the highway code.

10) Don't drive like a maniac.

[Beetlejuice]

Well , if people here would have at least a little knowledge in driving , road safety etc ...The problem is those bus companies who give big machine to drivers who know nothing about driving . We see that everyday on roads in Thailand , Buses racing on vipavadee with passengers in , buses changing lanes every 2 minutes ..the list is to long ...not to mention Bangkok city buses which already killed so many people ... and what is done to avoid this ? Nothing of course ....

The problem is that passengers want to arrive at they’re destinations, pronto. They expect all stops to be pulled out in order to achieve the fastest service possible.

The coach and bus companies including their staff are under tremendous pressure to attain tight time schedules and arrive at the destinations on time. So it`s a case off putting the foot down, aim and keep going, probably breaking every highway code in the book to maintain a fast reliable service.

The unacceptable public transport accident rates are down to the pressures put onto drivers by the heads of the companies because of competition between the various bus companies and what the customers expect from a public transport service.

At the end of the day it`s all down to profits. Using the minimum amount of driver’s possible and cutbacks in maintenance procedures. The ultimate fault lies with the Government, with it`s failure to implement, impose and enforce stricter safety requirements and regulations on the public transport companies.

[housepainter]

Absolute well intentioned but inaccurate rubbish.

In England I come from an area that has one of the worst accident black spots in the country. It results in road deaths year on year.

The road is fine. I go by bike and car and it is a fine road.

The only problem is the excessive speed of some road users. That results in accidents some of which are fatal.

Thailand has roads.

Disproportionately it has reckless uneducated, untrained, unlicenced drivers.

That is the problem.

The result is that year on year we see no action taken to improve driver education.

It is low down on the priorities of a third world and deeply corrupt country. That is understandable but to those form the first world is unacceptable.

However, the reality is thta nothing will be done. Motorbike riding will not be tackled as long as it remains the only functional and affordable means of transport for 95% of the nation and the overwhelming majority of families. The truth is that the need for transport outweighs the need for road safety. The enabling of transportation and earning a living with its advantages outweighs the carnage it creates.

Add to that the wasted foreign loss of life and nothing changes.

If there were justice things would change.

There isn't as you're not Thai.

Leave the Thais to ignore [ and not sort out ] their own mess because that is what they have always done and will continue to do.

It is pointless to comment on Thailand other than to condemn the place. There is nothing to redeem it from within.

Basket case.

Next.

[NanaFoods]

The bus stopped at a rest stop... then went OUT through the ENTRANCE?

So the bus was going the wrong way down the freeway? Was the driver s-faced drunk?

Inconceivable.

[softgeorge]

As an alternative to (justified but useless) Thai bashing may I suggest that we foreigners adjust to the conditions making the best of ithem:

In 12 years of Thailand I never took a bus or minibus and fly only Thai Airways (not their crap competitors) if possible.

Taking a taxi in Bangkok I sit on the front seat and engage the driver in conversation. This makes me keep control of the situation and I can wear seatbelts.

Otherwise when renting or later on owning a car I am not only careful for myself but also allow for the others to make mistakes, I call it "fluid defensive" driving and I was lucky with that during a long period. The only accident while I was in a car was my driver hitting a motorbike and killing an elderly man. I generously paid the family much more than what the court claimed and am even more careful since then (with my driver on the left seat except for parking....).

You were a passenger in a car when someone was killed and you had to pay compensation to the family? Were you the only farang or did others have to pay up also?

[Beetlejuice]

Absolute well intentioned but inaccurate rubbish.

In England I come from an area that has one of the worst accident black spots in the country. It results in road deaths year on year.

The road is fine. I go by bike and car and it is a fine road.

The only problem is the excessive speed of some road users. That results in accidents some of which are fatal.

Thailand has roads.

Disproportionately it has reckless uneducated, untrained, unlicenced drivers.

That is the problem.

The result is that year on year we see no action taken to improve driver education.

It is low down on the priorities of a third world and deeply corrupt country. That is understandable but to those form the first world is unacceptable.

However, the reality is thta nothing will be done. Motorbike riding will not be tackled as long as it remains the only functional and affordable means of transport for 95% of the nation and the overwhelming majority of families. The truth is that the need for transport outweighs the need for road safety. The enabling of transportation and earning a living with its advantages outweighs the carnage it creates.

Add to that the wasted foreign loss of life and nothing changes.

If there were justice things would change.

There isn't as you're not Thai.

Leave the Thais to ignore [ and not sort out ] their own mess because that is what they have always done and will continue to do.

It is pointless to comment on Thailand other than to condemn the place. There is nothing to redeem it from within.

Basket case.

Next.

Good points but it just another Thailand bashing post.

It`s all down to profits, want and demand and to hell with the consequences.

If the bus services were to start taking road safety seriously and journey times were to substantially decrease with speed restrictions and more stringent maintenance procedures impose resulting in higher fares, than the passengers would simply cease using them and begin to use other means of public transport such as the rail networks or other forms of road transport.

As I said previously, it`s all down to want and demand and profits, it`s a catch 22. The Government must implement any real solutions to the problem, as obviously self-regulation from these companies does not work.

There was a leaked memo some years ago regarding the UK rail networks after a spate of train crashes during the 1990s. It stated that the rail companies considered it was more viable and cheaper in the long term to allow rail accidents and pay compensation to the victims rather than impose stricter safer measures and install certain safety devices on the rail networks. I have no doubts that this same point of view and attitudes regarding public transport is rampant in Thailand.

[ignis]

Where to start.........

Almost every day I see Police motorbike going the wrong way, often Police pickups also going the wrong way.. Police men on motorbike with no helmet....

Maybe an idea would be to train the Police 1st, then they will know what is right and wrong, what the highway code is, then they can help other road users

[scorecard]

Here's another example, two years back my granddaughters kindergarden arranged an outing to ocean world under Siam paragon on a double decker bus. Several parents / grandparents were asked to go along as extra escorts for the kids, including me.When the bus arrived about 9.30am the driver was very drunk, could hardly stand up and reaked of whisky. The school owner was shocked and called the owner of the bus company to demand a new driver. The bus owner said NO to replacing the driver but said she would send another bus and driver if the school was prepared to pay the same fee again. The kinder owner called the police who did come but did nothing whatever. They even let the drunk bus driver get into the bus and drive it away.

[cheeryble]

And how many of Thais not even bother to obtain that at all....

Me myself got my drive licence in 20 minutes from the moment I stepped into the Roads Dept (or how you call that). NO ANY SINGLE QUESTION was sounded (about theory), NO ANY SINGLE MINUTE was spent on test driving....Nothing at all.

I step into the department, provide them photo/fee/passport, they gave me the questionnaire in Thai where correct answers were ALREADY PRE-CHECKED, I passed it to the clerk, waiting for 20min and received my licence. Bingo, I became a driver!

You obviously don't understand that being not colourblind's the most important thing....

Edited December 30, 2011 by cheeryble

[Balance]

It is interesting that Thais seem to suspend the compulsion for politeness seen in the language when they get on the road. We were driving into town for lunch as week and Roger (who has been here for 15 years), noted a woman trying to cross the road and he stopped for her. Her reaction was first one in incredulity, then surprise, then wariness that something bad was going to happen. Finally she made eye contact and we motioned for her to cross. But, I don't think that even if all of the farang living here and driving decided to "set an example" that it would change anything and just might cause more accidents.

It took mothers in the U.S. 30 years of hard political fights to get drunk driving laws changed. That is not going to happen here, especially when Thais are willing to turn a 115 cc motorbike into a 4 person family sedan.

[xthAi76s]

It is interesting that Thais seem to suspend the compulsion for politeness seen in the language when they get on the road. We were driving into town for lunch as week and Roger (who has been here for 15 years), noted a woman trying to cross the road and he stopped for her. Her reaction was first one in incredulity, then surprise, then wariness that something bad was going to happen. Finally she made eye contact and we motioned for her to cross. But, I don't think that even if all of the farang living here and driving decided to "set an example" that it would change anything and just might cause more accidents.

It took mothers in the U.S. 30 years of hard political fights to get drunk driving laws changed. That is not going to happen here, especially when Thais are willing to turn a 115 cc motorbike into a 4 person family sedan.

I just finished reading a book that discussed this type of thing. The book argues that Thais operate in 3 social circles of increasing indifference. They are: family circle, cautious circle and selfish circle.

Take a peek at: http://www.thingsasi...ies-photos/2704

From the link above

"For example, why can such an otherwise gentle and non-confrontational people be such aggressive drivers? How can they be so compassionate in certain circumstances and so callous in others? And why do English-speaking Thais in the company of an English-speaking foreigner nevertheless insist on speaking Thai?

The authors argue that the answers to the first two questions depend upon what they call the three circles of Thai social interactions: the Family, Cautious, and selfish circles respectively. Basically the list proceeds in ascending order of indifference. The guy cutting you off on the road, or cutting in front of you in a queue, calculates that he will probably never encounter you again and can therefore afford to be assertive."

[Roj]

I`m afraid most Thai drivers have about as much road sense as a domestic cat. Add to that they are some of the most selfish drivers in the world and are quiet prepared to use their pickup/truck/bus as a weapon to bully their way through traffic and you have a recipe for mayhem. Proper training, instruction in road etiquette and enforcement of traffic rules should be the norm. It won`t change though.

[khaan]

It is interesting that Thais seem to suspend the compulsion for politeness seen in the language when they get on the road. We were driving into town for lunch as week and Roger (who has been here for 15 years), noted a woman trying to cross the road and he stopped for her. Her reaction was first one in incredulity, then surprise, then wariness that something bad was going to happen. Finally she made eye contact and we motioned for her to cross. But, I don't think that even if all of the farang living here and driving decided to "set an example" that it would change anything and just might cause more accidents.

It took mothers in the U.S. 30 years of hard political fights to get drunk driving laws changed. That is not going to happen here, especially when Thais are willing to turn a 115 cc motorbike into a 4 person family sedan.

I just finished reading a book that discussed this type of thing. The book argues that Thais operate in 3 social circles of increasing indifference. They are: family circle, cautious circle and selfish circle.

Take a peek at: http://www.thingsasi...ies-photos/2704

From the link above

"For example, why can such an otherwise gentle and non-confrontational people be such aggressive drivers? How can they be so compassionate in certain circumstances and so callous in others? And why do English-speaking Thais in the company of an English-speaking foreigner nevertheless insist on speaking Thai?

The authors argue that the answers to the first two questions depend upon what they call the three circles of Thai social interactions: the Family, Cautious, and selfish circles respectively. Basically the list proceeds in ascending order of indifference. The guy cutting you off on the road, or cutting in front of you in a queue, calculates that he will probably never encounter you again and can therefore afford to be assertive."

Well I would like to throw in my two pennies worth regarding how Thai drivers react to Monks.

After all Monks are meant to represent such an important part of Thai society and most Thai’s display incredible

reverence and humbleness when it comes to Monks inside the temple. And yet how many times do you see one or

a group of Monks anxiously trying to cross a road and yet no one bothers to stop to give them way?

And how many times do you see motorists stopping and asking a Monk who happens to be walking along the road

if they would like to be given a ride? Maybe they would decline the offer and I'm not suggesting for one minute

people need to go out of their way if the Monk happens to be going in the opposite direction. But simply asking the Monk this

question would be a display of respect that seems to come to them so easily inside the temple but not when they are

behind the wheel of a vehicle.

in my opinion again underlines their selfishness and in many cases what is only a superficial belief and value

system of the Buddhist religion itself.

Edited December 30, 2011 by khaan

[lovetotravel]

A majority of Thailand's traffic woes are due to corruption. Either police corruption or government corruption (i.e. not enough funds to build things properly). In my hometown in the West, there was a stretch of road they called the death highway. Accidents almost every day and fatalities almost every week. Reason? Excessive speeding and no center divider.

Guess what? Extra police were added and the police now have ZERO tolerance for speeding. Fines are handed out left and right. A center divider has been added so cars don't cross the median and hit cars coming the other way. Government and police response solved a very deadly problem. You now see very few people speeding and very few accidents.

[cowslip]

" and I would say most of the drivers drive appallingly bad here. It's a fact. " - QED - utter nonsense! FACT??? - the sad thing is this poster doesn't even seem to know what a fact is and that it is useless without interpretation furthermore seems to think that opinions are facts.

IMO - Most Thai drivers are very good...they are much more capable than the average geriatric expat of coping with the vagaries of the Thai roads..there are of course as in any country those whose driving defies all reasonable explanation and if one's perception is so limited that is is reinforced every time one sees an example of this it is clear how such a naive conclusion as the above poster's could be achieved

[cowslip]

A majority of Thailand's traffic woes are due to corruption. Either police corruption or government corruption (i.e. not enough funds to build things properly). In my hometown in the West, there was a stretch of road they called the death highway. Accidents almost every day and fatalities almost every week. Reason? Excessive speeding and no center divider.

Guess what? Extra police were added and the police now have ZERO tolerance for speeding. Fines are handed out left and right. A center divider has been added so cars don't cross the median and hit cars coming the other way. Government and police response solved a very deadly problem. You now see very few people speeding and very few accidents.

You pick out a very important point...traffic engineering - this is absolutely crucial for safe roads and cannot be achieved in a corrupt society, for the reasons you alluded to.

If you look even at the apparently "safest" countries in the world - the ones that don't actually live up to this - e.g. USA and Australia, actually have pretty poor traffic engineering.

Edited December 30, 2011 by cowslip

[cowslip]

I`m afraid most Thai drivers have about as much road sense as a domestic cat. Add to that they are some of the most selfish drivers in the world and are quiet prepared to use their pickup/truck/bus as a weapon to bully their way through traffic and you have a recipe for mayhem. Proper training, instruction in road etiquette and enforcement of traffic rules should be the norm. It won`t change though.

"I`m afraid most Thai drivers have about as much road sense as a domestic cat." more pure bigotry.

[cowslip]

THe sooner that some posters realise that it it OT just the road users that are to blame the better.

ALL countries have moron drivers (see some posts here) the secret is to prevent the morons from doing what comes naturally . This is achieved through traffic and road engineering NOT just enforcing speed limits.

[cowslip]

I wonder how many of those deaths are motor cycle related, it’s unfair to compare UK and Thailand for many reasons. Yes the numbers are shocking but I am not surprised the standard of driving in Thailand is shocking treat everybody as an idiot on the road as most of them are!

I am also quite shocked at the number of busses coaches and lorries I see almost every day with completely bald tyres! Doesn’t anyone check them?

so this is where the nonsense begins?

" I am not surprised the standard of driving in Thailand is shocking treat everybody as an idiot on the road as most of them are!" - really not racist or Thai bashing? Fact? I think the poster needs to take a lesson in thinking things out.