The Undocumented Dangers Of Thailand's Roads

[wxyz]

interesting it is the mothers, i did not see any fathers?

i am guessing most parents would discourage their kids from backpacking overseas.

[queanbeyan]

'Hard working officials of the Thai Ministry of Public Health' - I have dealt with public officials in many countries across my career, I have yet to see a hard working official in any Thai department. Some public officials in some countries do work hard but from my limited experience that is not the case in Thailand. My friend who works in the Education department has a mat and a pillow to rest on when she is not busy. Another friend from an agency that looks after traffic signals took her 8 office staff to a footbridge outside here office and asked that they walk across the bridge a few times - the reason - believe it or not - her manager was worried that the bridge was not being used enough! I'm not sure if the latter story is an urban myth - but my point is that most public officials seem to operate either as slow motion robots that are programmed to get in the way - or they purposely are on a go-slow until some cash transfer happens to raise the importance of a matter. I'm sure this happens to an extent in all countries but in Thailand it's endemic.

[queanbeyan]

When my Thai mother-in-law was on an extended visit - she refused to wear a safety belt when she was in our car. We would often have to buckle her in just to make the point. I've lived in both Thailand and Laos and I have heard that women won't wear a helmet because they worry about their hair style - maybe its the same thing with seat belts but possibly with creasing the clothing? Just a thought.

Edited December 29, 2011 by queanbeyan

[chooka]

In general, from my experience driving in Chiang Mai, most drivers have absolutely no road sense, no common sense and an attitude of "its not my fault" when they drive. To call them brainless idiots would be an insult to brainless idiots.

I have to agree and there is also a total lack of policing, last week I was approaching a red light, had been red for approximately 5 seconds but there was still a steady stream of vehicles going straight through. There was also a no "U" turn sign however the turns were still being performed contrary to the sign. I noticed to my left a police box and there in the box was the BIB taking his afternoon nap.

[chooka]

for himself. The police do nothing but collect their bribes. I was paid 2000 baht once at a toll station because I was told I had gone over the speed limit, actually

Capealava must be the only one in Thailand to have ever got money from the BiB!!!

Sorry about that probably English is not your first language but it made me laugh, as for johnsuma I had a lot of trouble even following your post. And one other person I noticed is using where instead of were (used twice at least so not a typo) were as in 'we were on our way to Bangkok' as opposed to where as in "where is Bangkok?" (not the actual phrases used by the poster)

Maybe the officer thought he was cute.

[witsawakorn]

In general, from my experience driving in Chiang Mai, most drivers have absolutely no road sense, no common sense and an attitude of "its not my fault" when they drive. To call them brainless idiots would be an insult to brainless idiots.

Its all relative of course. Have you ever driven in India? Thai drivers are great in comparison. I wonder if Thai tourists to UK call Brits brainless idiots after seeing the behaviour in the typical British High Street on a Friday or Saturday night. Before people get on their high horses trying to make out that every thing is good in the West consider that US road fatalities have only dropped below 40,000 per year in two years since 2000. My personal experience is that I have only been hospitalised once due to a road accident and that was in UK where a drunk driver hit me and a friend whilst crossing the road. I was seriously injured but the 21 year old girl who was with me died. The driver, who didn't stop, didn't even lose his license even though the police had a cast iron DUI case against him. Why? Because his father used his influence ( they were " Funny Handshake people") with the local police boss to get the DUI charges dropped which saved his son some jail time. It will take a long time to develop good standards of safety on Thailands's roads as it did in UK and US and everywhere else but they have to start somewehere so I don't agree with the posters who claim that these women will have no effect. It's just one small step on a long journey

[Morgo]

You don't have to drive on Thai roads to be in mortal danger.

My experience as a pedestrian trying to cross the road in Bangkok's Pra Nakhon district. After waiting for the traffic to clear at a marked crossing with a centre flashing amber light, I decided to cross. Spotting a pickup bearing down on me at very high speed and not knowing whether to go back or run foreward, I just propped thinking this is it. The pickup missed me with centimetres to spare. Careering past with blue smoke from all four tyres, coming to a stop 20 metres past me. The driver alighted and then commenced to abuse me, as if I was in the wrong, impeding his progress.

I have noticed that ambulances with sirens and flashing lights don't seem to have to right of way in Thailand. They are treated as just another road user, to be overtaken at all costs, even to jump in front of them at red lights and not letting them through, seems to be common.

[thaikahuna]

I wonder how many of those deaths are motor cycle related?

I saw a report several years back where Thailand was reporting that 39 people per day die on the roads from motorcycle accidents. Regardless of how or how many, it's too dam_n many!

[peterdk]

Everyone who drives on the roads regularly knows that minibus and other bus drivers are the worst on the roads.

I would disagree with that. They may be the drivers on Thai roads with the most experience along with truck drivers.

The problem with minibus drivers and bus drivers is tailgating and the mentality I'm bigger, so I'm right. But with all the other lunatics on the roads, to an extent, I can follow their mindset. Its like get out of my way, you silly whatever car/bike in their way as you have no clue to what you are doing. So they are by far no angels on the road, but by far not the worst drivers out there.

Now the girls in their new Toyota or the farmer man/lady on his/her 3 wheel part vehicle part food/snack/souvenir shop or the young teenage wanna be Evel Knievel - I certainly rank those groups higher on the danger-o-meter.

Edited December 29, 2011 by peterdk

[landofidiots]

in the channel for documentary they showed people building " hand built buses "

without diagrams or plans...... and they talked about " pirate buses "

why don't the police check these things when they pass through the numerous police

checkpoints?

there is only one way to travel by bus safely in Thailand and that is this way:-

http://www.nca.co.th/firstclass.php

And what makes you think their drivers have more knowledge and actual road safety education?

I wonder how many of those deaths are motor cycle related, it’s unfair to compare UK and Thailand for many reasons. Yes the numbers are shocking but I am not surprised the standard of driving in Thailand is shocking treat everybody as an idiot on the road as most of them are!

I am also quite shocked at the number of busses coaches and lorries I see almost every day with completely bald tyres! Doesn’t anyone check them?

No. And bus tyres are expensive.

yes was just reading the Phuket gazette where the owner of a water company admits to using grade B plastic instead of grade A because "we would lose 30 -40 baht" then admits that he has no idea if the grade B plastic is safe to drink from. ???? Thailand

[landofidiots]

for himself. The police do nothing but collect their bribes. I was paid 2000 baht once at a toll station because I was told I had gone over the speed limit, actually

Capealava must be the only one in Thailand to have ever got money from the BiB!!!

Sorry about that probably English is not your first language but it made me laugh, as for johnsuma I had a lot of trouble even following your post. And one other person I noticed is using where instead of were (used twice at least so not a typo) were as in 'we were on our way to Bangkok' as opposed to where as in "where is Bangkok?" (not the actual phrases used by the poster)

Maybe the officer thought he was cute.

Should always ask for a reciept too.

[ludditeman]

Thailand is a country where life is considered cheap and there is no 'nanny' state.

If you are scared by that then don't come, some of us like it this way.

There are risks to living, better to take them and live life to the full, than live in the west and die of boredom.

It is, of course, sad when anyone dies for any reason.

Edited December 29, 2011 by ludditeman

[sysardman]

In general, from my experience driving in Chiang Mai, most drivers have absolutely no road sense, no common sense and an attitude of "its not my fault" when they drive. To call them brainless idiots would be an insult to brainless idiots.

Its all relative of course. Have you ever driven in India? Thai drivers are great in comparison. I wonder if Thai tourists to UK call Brits brainless idiots after seeing the behaviour in the typical British High Street on a Friday or Saturday night. Before people get on their high horses trying to make out that every thing is good in the West consider that US road fatalities have only dropped below 40,000 per year in two years since 2000.

Well said that man (or woman), a few years back I had the misfortune to drive in London and stopped at a junction, I would still be there today if I hadn't realised that the accepted method of getting out was to close my eyes and go for it. Not one person made any attempt to stop and let me out. Also over the years I have seen countless incidents of road rage and reckless driving so the West is hardly Utopia.

It seems also that the West (and East) are happy to sell cars and motorbikes to the Thais with all the flashy advertising that goes with it - how fast they are, how cool you look driving it and all the other cr*p the manufacturers want you to believe, especially how safe they are (not to the poor pedrestrian that's splattered all over the road and is now photoshoot material for those with mobile phones). Perhaps automobile manufacturers should shoulder their part of the responsibility to educate drivers

Edited December 29, 2011 by sysardman

[landofidiots]

I feel desperately sorry for the parents BUT trying to change driving attitudes here is an uphill, if not impossible battle.

This is not the UK with its many rules and regulations. In the big scheme of things, I would say the average Thai is more concerned about the things that matter to them eg. sorting out the floods, having a stable government etc etc.

It is all very well saying how bad the roads are here while sitting in London, but this is not London....priorities are different here.

The best they can hope for (as someone else said) is to encourage the UK government to put warnings on Foreign Office website and for travellers to be educated about the dangers.

Travellers should be made aware that safety standards are not as high as the UK and won't be for a long time.

Would have to say from my time here that the average Thai is only concerned with eating, having fun and collecting Buddhist amulets - in that order.

[landofidiots]

In general, from my experience driving in Chiang Mai, most drivers have absolutely no road sense, no common sense and an attitude of "its not my fault" when they drive. To call them brainless idiots would be an insult to brainless idiots.

Fully agree and it's the same in Phuket. Me go first, me not wait you, me more important than you so me pass you in the queue waiting to make a turn so that there are now 3-4 cars wide making a u-turn. It's ridiculous to say the least and many times right in front of the police who of course do nothing. Morning rush hour in Phuket, I'm talking 7:30 - 8:30, I ride by the Cherngthalay police station to find usually two table full of police sitting around reading the news paper, having coffee, laughing and just relaxing at the next door coffee shop - hmm morning rush hour shouldn't they be out on patrol (yes many are wearing the orange vest marked traffic police). I too have yet to see anyone pulled over for a traffic violation but have seen plenty of farang stopped for no helmet.

[xthAi76s]

Thailand is a country where life is considered cheap and there is no 'nanny' state.

If you are scared by that then don't come, some of us like it this way.

There are risks to living, better to take them and live life to the full, than live in the west and die of boredom.

It is, of course, sad when anyone dies for any reason.

aghhhhhhhhhh

[chooka]

Thailand is a country where life is considered cheap and there is no 'nanny' state.

If you are scared by that then don't come, some of us like it this way.

There are risks to living, better to take them and live life to the full, than live in the west and die of boredom.

It is, of course, sad when anyone dies for any reason.

Chinese, notice the hairstyles on the kids

[Wossnext]

While I feel terrible for these mothers who lost their children they are pitifully naive if they think they will have any impact or influence on the status quo here in Thailand. Only tourists and the poor ride buses in Thailand, and time after time we've seen that tourists and the poor don't count for squat in the Land of Smiles...

While I suppose embassies could do more to warn tourists, when travelling to a third world country (or any country for that matter) isn't it the responsability of the tourists to familiarize themselves with the dangers that await them?

That's a bit harsh! to suggest the boys parents are "pitifully naive" for trying to do something about the road dangers in Thailand. Yes of course they will achieve nothing but I have no doubt that the act of trying gives them a channel at least in which to pour their grief. As for being respnsible for familiarizing themselves, well yes you can read tourist books, but you can never really know the full extent of the danger on the roads there unless you have lived in Thailand for a period of time.

[ludditeman]

While I feel terrible for these mothers who lost their children they are pitifully naive if they think they will have any impact or influence on the status quo here in Thailand. Only tourists and the poor ride buses in Thailand, and time after time we've seen that tourists and the poor don't count for squat in the Land of Smiles...

While I suppose embassies could do more to warn tourists, when travelling to a third world country (or any country for that matter) isn't it the responsability of the tourists to familiarize themselves with the dangers that await them?

That's a bit harsh! to suggest the boys parents are "pitifully naive" for trying to do something about the road dangers in Thailand. Yes of course they will achieve nothing but I have no doubt that the act of trying gives them a channel at least in which to pour their grief. As for being respnsible for familiarizing themselves, well yes you can read tourist books, but you can never really know the full extent of the danger on the roads there unless you have lived in Thailand for a period of time.

'Gap year' trips are always dangerous, the risk of rape, robbery, murder, accident, illness, disappearance is very high compared to normal daily life in the western world. One must wonder what the mothers thought a gang of young men traveling to Thailand were intending to do (sex, drugs, rock n roll?).

I would have thought the mothers/parents should accept some of the blame themselves for allowing and financing the trip in the first place. Their time would be better spent starting a campaign to discourage 'gap year' travelers, IMHO, than trying to improve road safety in Thailand.

Edited December 29, 2011 by ludditeman

[junki3korean]

Lets be honest......So many of us here living or holidaying would ride there scooters after a shiet face night at the pub, I myself am very guilty of that and luckily only had 3 minor accidents.....I dont only blame Thais but some of us drunkens can cause a real dangerous mess!

How would the parents have felt if there kids were involved in a accident caused purelly from there mistakes?? Would they still consider that Thai roads are dangerous???

[landofidiots]

Lets be honest......So many of us here living or holidaying would ride there scooters after a shiet face night at the pub, I myself am very guilty of that and luckily only had 3 minor accidents.....I dont only blame Thais but some of us drunkens can cause a real dangerous mess!

How would the parents have felt if there kids were involved in a accident caused purelly from there mistakes?? Would they still consider that Thai roads are dangerous???

but it wasnt caused by thier mistake it was caused by an absolute moron with no common sense or respect for the rules. In the interview he still doesnt admit that he did anything wrong! Most Thais drive too fast, for some reason they are in a hurry to get somewhere and do nothing slowly. I find it strange that they are in a hurry and can't wait in a queue but when you need them to do something they are slower than a snail.

[sysardman]

You don't have to drive on Thai roads to be in mortal danger.

My experience as a pedestrian trying to cross the road in Bangkok's Pra Nakhon district. After waiting for the traffic to clear at a marked crossing with a centre flashing amber light,

Your experience is not suffice - If you mean the yellow flashing light on a pedestal then your mistake was to assume that this is some sort of warning for motorists to slow down. In fact they are put there to lure pedestrians to their deaths by thinking that some kind of safety management is in place. If on the other hand you meant a flashing yellow traffic light you would be mistaken again green=go, yellow=go (can't prove a thing), red=go (if nobody's looking - well nobody that matters).

[finnomick1]

Better take a train, if you are short on budget, or fly, what is rather cheap as well! Busses and mini busses is kind of a Russian Roulette...

Unless of course, you get a moronic driver trying to beat the train at a level crossing which subsequently dis-rails two carriages causing injuries to over 120 people !!!

[Mosha]

The issue is not the roads but the users...

Thailand, the hub of potholes. I've even seen a tree growing throw a recently tarmced road. However the drivers are worse than the roads.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Mosha

[rfukata]

I wonder how many of those deaths are motor cycle related, it’s unfair to compare UK and Thailand for many reasons. Yes the numbers are shocking but I am not surprised the standard of driving in Thailand is shocking treat everybody as an idiot on the road as most of them are!

I am also quite shocked at the number of busses coaches and lorries I see almost every day with completely bald tyres! Doesn’t anyone check them?

...not to compare cars / trucks without any or at least back lights!

I just did my Thai driving licence. Seeing how easy it is to get one without any proper training or theoretical drill makes me understand the traffic situation in Thailand.

but many nationals considerably fail the driving test - as I have seen directly at the DMV license center. One guy tried to pay off the

instructor openly after the failure, however the instructor refused the bribe and told him to come back when he is ready again.

[chooka]

While I feel terrible for these mothers who lost their children they are pitifully naive if they think they will have any impact or influence on the status quo here in Thailand. Only tourists and the poor ride buses in Thailand, and time after time we've seen that tourists and the poor don't count for squat in the Land of Smiles...

While I suppose embassies could do more to warn tourists, when travelling to a third world country (or any country for that matter) isn't it the responsability of the tourists to familiarize themselves with the dangers that await them?

That's a bit harsh! to suggest the boys parents are "pitifully naive" for trying to do something about the road dangers in Thailand. Yes of course they will achieve nothing but I have no doubt that the act of trying gives them a channel at least in which to pour their grief. As for being respnsible for familiarizing themselves, well yes you can read tourist books, but you can never really know the full extent of the danger on the roads there unless you have lived in Thailand for a period of time.

'Gap year' trips are always dangerous, the risk of rape, robbery, murder, accident, illness, disappearance is very high compared to normal daily life in the western world. One must wonder what the mothers thought a gang of young men traveling to Thailand were intending to do (sex, drugs, rock n roll?).

I would have thought the mothers/parents should accept some of the blame themselves for allowing and financing the trip in the first place. Their time would be better spent starting a campaign to discourage 'gap year' travelers, IMHO, than trying to improve road safety in Thailand.

You spoke of "Nanny State" in your post #72. Thailand is not a Nanny State. In this post you are saying that the mothers/parents should accept some of the blame for allowing thier trip in the 1st place. Should the mothers/parents be mollycoddling thier young adult offspring? They were 19 yrs old. If they were to mollycoddle these young adults would that not be the same or like a Nanny state.

A nanny state is the perception of a situation characterised by governmental policies of over-protectionism.

Mollycoddle -To be overprotective and indulgent toward.

[finnomick1]

Nothing will ever improve here.....I have just got back from a 434km round trip to pick up some of my wife's family. A journey I do often. On a broad two lane road with hard shoulders either side I was confronted by 4 lines of traffic approaching me, everybody trying to overtake everybody else. Then the 8astards started flashing their headlights at ME expecting me to get out of their way. There was a steep drop into a field on my nearside so I had no options but to brake and breathe in. Utter utter stupidity, and of course, had there been an accident I would have been to blame because my skin is the wrong colour. Fuming mad doesn't come near it.

[Just1Voice]

My theory, as yet unproven, is that electrical impulses from the engines of motorbikes, car, trucks, mini vans and buses, shut down the portion of the Thai brain that deals with logic, common sense, respect and courtesy. I have seen calm, polite do a complete metamorphosis into a character from Mad Max the second they start their vehicle.

I also live in Chiang Mai, east of the city on highway 121, not far from where it intersects with 1006 & 1317. I've pretty much become "emotionally numbed" at the number of accidents and deaths I see at those two intersections now. Just this past week my wife and I were in the car, coming home, east bound on 1006 where it is 2 lane. Half a dozen or so cars behind me. Coming towards us are 4 cars and then a tour bus. The bus swerves out into the oncoming lane, flashing his lights for me, and everyone behind me, to get out of his way. I pull over to where my left side tires are actually brushing against the curb as this idiot go flying by, well over the speed limit, about 4 inches from my right side mirror.

I've seen 4 silver minivans on 121 pull out as one, and all try to pass 4-5 cars in front, flashing their lights and fully expecting oncoming traffic to move out of the way for them. I can't even begin to count the number of times I've seen cars, and everything else, trying to pass others in what is clearly marked as a no passing zone.

Want a good example of "driver education" or "knowledge"? Last year we were having a family gathering at our house. About 30 people. Earlier in the day, using MS Publisher, I drew up and printed out copies of the various lines used on the road, both white and yellow. White lines - broken & solid. Yellow lines - broken, solid and double. At the bottom of each page I had the question: "What does this mean?"

Not one person could answer all 5, and none of them had ANY idea of what the yellow lines meant. The sad part, one of them is a Senior Sgt with the Royal Thai Police here in CM.

Anyone who rides in the car with me wears a seat belt - No exceptions! I finally got my point across about wearing helmets when I took the keys of my son's new motorbike away from him for 3 days, making him depend on his friends to come get him to go to work.

I drive a CBR, and I won't go out of this moo bahn unless I'm wearing jeans, shoes (socks are optional haha), Padded Honda racing jacket, full HJC helmet and gloves, and that includes just going down to the little market about 1 kilometer away.

My sympathies go out to the mothers of these boys, but as others have already noted, their efforts are totally wasted in regards to getting anything done in Thailand. I loved the part of the video where the Thai official said: "If they want to register their buses with us....". That's part of the problem. Many of these buses are NOT registered or licensed, are illegal as anything, but no one cares because of the "tea money" being paid to the cops, and others, to let them operate.

And it's only going to get worse, never better.

[sysardman]

Thailand is a country where life is considered cheap and there is no 'nanny' state.

If you are scared by that then don't come, some of us like it this way.

There are risks to living, better to take them and live life to the full, than live in the west and die of boredom.

It is, of course, sad when anyone dies for any reason.

Chinese, notice the hairstyles on the kids

I think the chinese writing on the Baby-in-a-bucket takeaway is a clue too - I wonder if you get fries with that?. Great picture though, beats my familiy of five on a moped hands down.

[ludditeman]

You spoke of "Nanny State" in your post #72. Thailand is not a Nanny State. In this post you are saying that the mothers/parents should accept some of the blame for allowing thier trip in the 1st place. Should the mothers/parents be mollycoddling thier young adult offspring? They were 19 yrs old. If they were to mollycoddle these young adults would that not be the same or like a Nanny state.

A nanny state is the perception of a situation characterised by governmental policies of over-protectionism.

Mollycoddle -To be overprotective and indulgent toward.

It is a parent's responsibility to look after the best interests of their immature children.

To allow a 19 YO boy to come to Thailand with a group of similar lads cannot be considered 'good parenting' by anyone.

To further, try and blame something in a third world country for any consequential risks, seems slightly irresponsible.

It is still sad that the boys died.