Labor Rights At An International School

[northend_boyz]

Hi,

I've been working at an international school for the past 3 years and have been content with the working conditions at the school. Recently, the school has changed principles. The new principle at first seemed decent enough but all of a sudden she pulled a Jekyll and Hyde. I won't get into details. I'll just say that the teachers at the school, including myself, are not feeling secure. I've done a little research on labor rights for teachers and found that teachers at private schools don't have any. What i can't find is the labor rights of teachers at international schools. I want to know if we (inter teachers) are in the same boat as the private school teachers. Are we stuck with only the conditions in the contract? Are we protected in anyway?

I'd appreciate any advice or feedback.

Thanks,

RH

[Scott]

Difficult question to answer for sure, but if you were hired from overseas, then you may be protected by the laws of both your home country and Thai labor law.

I do not believe that International Schools are covered under the Private School Act. I would guess that you are covered under the regular Thai labor regulations. The Private School Act, as I read it, applies to private schools under the broad umbrella of the Ministry of Education.....but perhaps we have some experts.

[Phatcharanan]

I do have some knowledge of this having been in a 'good' international that faced some difficulties with a couple of teachers recruited from the UK.

First..............UK law does not apply to schools that hire from there. They are subject to the laws of the 'host country'.

International schools do not appear to be exempt from any of the wordings of the Private Schools Act. They are private schools...............end of story. According to my previous schools lawyers anyway.....................and no action from the disgruntled teachers ever made it to the courts.

[Scott]

I defer to the above poster. My only experience was with an international organization, but not a school. Our contract specifically stated the court of final arbitration for non-Thai nationals was in the country where the organization was based. It also stated that we were subject to the labor laws of both countries.

[harrry]

If hired overseas the school could be liable in the overseas country if any of the advertised conditions were not met.

[Mario2008]

Some info on Thai labour law can be found here: http://www.panwagroup.net/business/index2.html

[Phatcharanan]

Some info on Thai labour law can be found here: http://www.panwagrou...ess/index2.html

Sorry to put a dampener on this Mario but that act does not apply to private schools.

Private schools are covered under the Private Schools Act BE 2550 which became effective in January 2009. There was also an addition placed on that act which took away any right to severance pay as well.

[haltes]

But the rights of a teacher at this kind of school cannot be less than those as prescribed under the labor protection provisions....

Read this section:

Section 86.

The affairs of a Formal School only on the part of the Director, teachers and educational personnel shall not be subject to the law on labor protection, the law on labor relations, the law on social security and the law on compensation. However, the Director, teachers and educational personnel of a Formal School shall receive remunerations not less than those prescribed in the law on labor protection

[paully]

But the rights of a teacher at this kind of school cannot be less than those as prescribed under the labor protection provisions....

However, the Director, teachers and educational personnel of a Formal School shall receive remunerations not less than those prescribed in the law on labor protection

Precisely, haltes. The Act (in its English translation at least) is poorly worded, but to assume that teachers in private schools have none of the rights afforded to workers elsewhere is wide of the mark. Naturally, some school owners and directors are keen to encourage this view, though.

[Phatcharanan]

Sheeesh!

What you are quoting is with reference to salary..........and that is all.

You have NO chance of severance pay or any other protection parts of the Thai Labour Law.

Private schools are covered under the Private Schools Act...........end of.

[Phatcharanan]

The Act (in its English translation at least) is poorly worded, but to assume that teachers in private schools have none of the rights afforded to workers elsewhere is wide of the mark.

Really??

Ok..............exactly .what rights do you have then, without the minimum salary requirement?

Please name them.

[haltes]

Rights to the length of probation

Rights to holiday and sick pay

There are many rights that should be available and I don't know why that you as a teacher should be against teachers having the same rights as everyone else. Instead you are very confrontational and BTW I don't have to post my opinion but would point out that I do have an open mind to reading the legislation and I also have a degree in law (and have done some contractual work in Thailand) so I think I know my apples....

I find it absolutely unbelieveable that teachers would lose all their rights under law just for private schools as this would be unconstitutional and this eventuality is excluded in the very words of the act but I would have to go back and read the Thai version to be sure.

The reason you might not hear from teachers who have won is that many cases will be settled out of court and these will be agreements based on the silence of the teachers who will be obligated to say nothing in return for settling for their entitlement.

[paully]

You have NO chance of severance pay or any other protection parts of the Thai Labour Law.

Do you know this - or merely believe it?

Are you intimating that teachers in private schools in Thailand are therefore reduced to the level of slaves with no legal rights? Curious.

[Scott]

Just to avoid an argument (and hopefully not cause one), I'll give you my understanding. It is based on some experience in a quasi-administrative role. I know of a number of teachers who have gone to the Ministry of Labor to claim severance. None has been successful. There may be a variety of reasons, since each case has specifics which could affect the outcome.

The Act specifically exempts certain labor regulations, not all. You pointed out a number of them that may be included. Unfair dismissal (not associated with end of contract), will result in a positive outcome. Even if the dismissal was justified, but there was not the proper warnings issued and allowance for an employee to improve.

I would guess that many cases are settled outside the court, but you can bet your life of the countless threads in which this issue has come up, some would be reporting a positive result.

It's an anonymous forum. There name and the name of the school wouldn't need to be mentioned.

But, I will advise anybody with any grievance to go to the MOL and pursue your case. Thai employers, and certainly many of the private schools will pull as much as they possibly can on employees. Do most have sick leave? Yes, but many don't give the amount specified in law--and they justify it with such things as Teachers don't work 12 months etc. etc. Do they grant maternity leave? Yes, but again some cut short the number of days, deduct it from the sick leave and deduct the salary.

The list is quite long.

I don't think most posters are 'against' teachers. The topic has been discussed a great deal on the forum.

We don't want to give people false hope, but please feel free to discuss the situation and by all means if you have different information, share it.

[Phatcharanan]

Rights to the length of probation

Rights to holiday and sick pay

There are many rights that should be available and I don't know why that you as a teacher should be against teachers having the same rights as everyone else. Instead you are very confrontational and BTW I don't have to post my opinion but would point out that I do have an open mind to reading the legislation and I also have a degree in law (and have done some contractual work in Thailand) so I think I know my apples....

Who on earth said I was against teachers? I ain't.

I am simply pointing out the fact that private schools come under the Private Schools Act and most of your rights are pretty negligible compared to the Thai Labour Law protections.

The specific act is the Private Schools Act BE 2550 which at that time allowed for severance pay. However, the right to severance pay was removed by the amendment to the Private School Act (No.2) BE 2554. Nor do you have guaranteed rights to amount of sick pay (and duration of) or holidays. Those are benefits which vary from school to school.

There is a published book reference this act which can be purchased from the MOE. It is in Thai only though. I suggest you buy it.

And no, your 'law degree' does not make you right in this matter...........you are, I assure you, completely wrong.

[paully]

The specific act is the Private Schools Act BE 2550 which at that time allowed for severance pay. However, the right to severance pay was removed by the amendment to the Private School Act (No.2) BE 2554. Nor do you have guaranteed rights to amount of sick pay (and duration of) or holidays. Those are benefits which vary from school to school.

As far as I can see, the wording of Section 86 - as amended by the Private School Act (No.2) BE 2554 you refer to - is as haltes referred to it in his earlier post. Where then is the specific removal of the right to severance pay?

PRIVATE SCHOOL ACT

B.E. 2550 (2007)

(As Amended by the Private School Act (No. 2) B.E. 2554)

http://www.ctlo.com/mediacenter/Publications/2011-03-28-PrivateSchoolAct-En.pdf

[Phatcharanan]

The specific act is the Private Schools Act BE 2550 which at that time allowed for severance pay. However, the right to severance pay was removed by the amendment to the Private School Act (No.2) BE 2554. Nor do you have guaranteed rights to amount of sick pay (and duration of) or holidays. Those are benefits which vary from school to school.

As far as I can see, the wording of Section 86 - as amended by the Private School Act (No.2) BE 2554 you refer to - is as haltes referred to it in his earlier post. Where then is the specific removal of the right to severance pay?

PRIVATE SCHOOL ACT

B.E. 2550 (2007)

(As Amended by the Private School Act (No. 2) B.E. 2554)

http://www.ctlo.com/...choolAct-En.pdf

Jeeeeeez. The link you supply is now the amended version. Hence why the act does not NOW show any reference to severance pay (compensation).

Previous act did allow for it.

[paully]

Jeeeeeez. The link you supply is now the amended version. Hence why the act does not NOW show any reference to severance pay (compensation).

Previous act did allow for it.

Jeeeeez. What - do you suppose - does 'remuneration' cover in Section 86 of the Act in relation to 'the law on labor protection'? The key word in your post is severance pay. Why would 'pay' not be covered by the term remuneration? Please explain.

Edited January 12, 2012 by paully