Are All Toilets Created Equal?

[4evermaat]

I am planning to swap out two thai toilets for the western toilets.  One will be just the toilet (no flusher) for the guests and the second one in the private room I am deciding whether to get the flusher.  We already have big trash bins that we fill with water, and I am used to manually pouring the water or using the spray to flush toilet.

I decided only white (or off white) color is acceptable.  Cotto seems to be a good brand here, but what is your experience?  Without flusher, I am seeing 1000-1600 baht for the white ones and the color ones are a bit cheaper and with flusher home mart has American Standard and Cotto starting at 2100 baht free delivery.  I was wondering if there is anything in particular i should look out for in the design and/or installation.  I never really thought about a toilet before, only that it is not a thai toilet.  But my biggest concern would be the ability for it not to clog easily.  (only seen toilet clog twice since in thailand, and boiling hot water/vinegar/baking soda worked like a charm)

Installation will be 1200 baht per toliet and the person doing that is reliable. What do you think of installation price?

What can we do with the thai toliets that we are ripping out?  Any re-sale/re-use value or just give them away?

Edited January 4, 2012 by 4evermaat

[haveaniceday]

Personally, I would only use flushes, but, after saying that, the cheap ones in side, just seem so dam_n nasty. I have seen so many leaking toilets in Thailand it is not funny. IF you are a big guy, the cheap ones are also considerably smaller than the normal western ones, do take note. Also the one for you guest, non flusher, again normally smaller, get him to install it 10cm raised if he can, if you plan to ever use it yourself. I put one into the Mum In Laws (MIL) place, it has never blocked and uses surprisingly little water to flush heaps of paper and a dinasor turd.

Replacing a Thai shitter with western, means it probably just has a few rings in the ground as a septic system that you are going to 'overload' with paper, I suggest once a month pouring down some bacteria to eat it up. Comes in granular / powder bags at HomePro, cleaning section, about 70n a pack. I don't know the chemistry involved, but it seems to work a treat. You can get it in Big C, a different brand, but it cost twice as much.

Also, with the cheap flushers, I have had better luck with the flush button in the top, not on the side, as the side levers are very weak and bend and seem to grow issues. American Standard has some cheap top buttons in Global I see.

[bankruatsteve]

Cotto and AS seem to be the popular brands so you probably can't go wrong with on of those - realizing they have different grades/pricing within the brand. I have bought low and high within those and find that the high end are usually sturdier in the seat and seem to flush better (less skid marks). But, you seem to want the low end so it probably doesn't matter brand or style if you just want a splasher b/c there ain't no high end for those.

In my opinion, an installation fee over 200-300 B/ toilet (if not both) is outrageous (here in LOS). Unless there is some serious plumbing needed, all they do is slap some cement down and hopefully get it over the drain pipe. You want somebody that's done it before, but 1200B seems way too much.

[rgs2001uk]

"I am planning to swap out two thai toilets for the western toilets"

What about the inlet pipework?

Installation price seems seriously high, remove an old shitter, slap a new one on top and hook up the inlet, for 1200 baht.

As mentioned by previous poster does this include some plumbing work?

[Crossy]

For the guests bucket flush job I'd go for the cheapest you can get at your local builder's merchant.

As bankruatsteve notes above, Cotto and AS are reasonably priced and good quality for your flusher. Do watch the height and seat size, you will feel a right plonker testing them out in HomePro but it's worth the embarrassment.

One thing to watch is that you don't overwhelm your septic by installing a flusher as a replacement for a squat, the squat and bucket flush western toilets do use remarkably little water to clear the business compared with the average flusher.

[ETatBKK]

mine from moo baan are all Thai 'nahm', not expensive and reasonable quality too.

still convince for a flush box, especially one with top flush button. less mechanical problem, and easy to repair if need.

just an 'old' question - those days there are three outlet pipe configurations, one to the floor another two to the wall plumbing, one high one low fitting. learnt the high one has a better septic condition ? are these configuraton still exist ?

[haveaniceday]

FYI in Global yesterday I saw a western size bucket toilet for your guest poo poo exterminator. It was 12cm higher than the next biggest one there and 300b more.

[4evermaat]

Personally, I would only use flushes, but, after saying that, the cheap ones in side, just seem so dam_n nasty. I have seen so many leaking toilets in Thailand it is not funny. IF you are a big guy, the cheap ones are also considerably smaller than the normal western ones, do take note. Also the one for you guest, non flusher, again normally smaller, get him to install it 10cm raised if he can, if you plan to ever use it yourself. I put one into the Mum In Laws (MIL) place, it has never blocked and uses surprisingly little water to flush heaps of paper and a dinasor turd.

Replacing a Thai shitter with western, means it probably just has a few rings in the ground as a septic system that you are going to 'overload' with paper, I suggest once a month pouring down some bacteria to eat it up. Comes in granular / powder bags at HomePro, cleaning section, about 70n a pack. I don't know the chemistry involved, but it seems to work a treat. You can get it in Big C, a different brand, but it cost twice as much.

Also, with the cheap flushers, I have had better luck with the flush button in the top, not on the side, as the side levers are very weak and bend and seem to grow issues. American Standard has some cheap top buttons in Global I see.

The public bathroom is already raised where the thai toliet is. I'm looking at a cotto bucket flusher for 1100 bt from a local shop and a newer model AS or cotto top flusher for 2400 @ home mart.

300 baht seems kind of low to remove/replace toliet. Maybe for 1200 baht, he anticipates additional work/fittings; i'm not sure. Maybe he has help. I paid the same guy 500 baht to install shower water heater + 600 bath for extra fittings and electrical work so it would actually work past the first day without shoring out the rest of the place. I was impressed so far.

I'll check around for other plumbers. Another guy was booked out at least a week.

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Edited January 6, 2012 by 4evermaat

[katabeachbum]

For the guests bucket flush job I'd go for the cheapest you can get at your local builder's merchant.

As bankruatsteve notes above, Cotto and AS are reasonably priced and good quality for your flusher. Do watch the height and seat size, you will feel a right plonker testing them out in HomePro but it's worth the embarrassment.

One thing to watch is that you don't overwhelm your septic by installing a flusher as a replacement for a squat, the squat and bucket flush western toilets do use remarkably little water to clear the business compared with the average flusher.

wouldnt the septic work better with more water flushed?

[Naam]

What can we do with the thai toliets that we are ripping out? Any re-sale/re-use value or just give them away?

ebay

[Gary A]

Changing types of toilets is not as simple as it would sometimes seem. I took out the Thai squatter and replaced it with a western style. The outlet for the squatter was in the front and the outlet for the western style was in the back. The floor in the bathroom was typically concrete so the concrete had to be broken out and the outlet moved back towards the wall.

We have the normal stacked concrete rings septic tank so I put in the bucket flush toilet. We use only the amount of water that is required. The tank has never been pumped out in the 7 years we have been here. Only the toilet drains into the septic tank.

[Naam]

Changing types of toilets is not as simple as it would sometimes seem. I took out the Thai squatter and replaced it with a western style. The outlet for the squatter was in the front and the outlet for the western style was in the back. The floor in the bathroom was typically concrete so the concrete had to be broken out and the outlet moved back towards the wall.

We have the normal stacked concrete rings septic tank so I put in the bucket flush toilet. We use only the amount of water that is required. The tank has never been pumped out in the 7 years we have been here. Only the toilet drains into the septic tank.

i'm sure the hard work was worth the resale value of the squatter shitter.

[Farma]

We’ve had 3 squatters plus one cheap western style replaced with flush western styles this past year. As Gary A mentions there can be some serious work required to align the pipes.

My only suggestion isselect a western style with large trap diameter. This reduces the chances of the toilet clogging.

The cheaper models tend to have a narrow trap diameter and low flush rate. It's the reason we upgraded the cheap western toilet. There’s nothing worse than clearing blockages on a daily basis especially when the town water supply reduces to a trickle.

[haveaniceday]

Farma : I feel your pain, but just on a bright note, only a suggestion, let the town water trickle into a smallish 1000 l tank and run a 5000b pump. I have been in your shoes in a rental, for ever constant frustration. I can honestly say, that was one of the best investments I had made at the time in LOS. (Land Of Stress).

Just make sure you run a by-pass to use town water as a back up.

To the OP: yes the squatter turd munchers are normally raised 10cm, but, when you "upgrade" them, your feet still rest on the raised 10 cm, get the highest you can get, I must admit, I have only taken notice since you posted, but I have been in at least ten places selling them, you get that when building a house. The only big ones I have seen is in Global, and only one of them. If it is for little people only, well who cares

[haveaniceday]

For the guests bucket flush job I'd go for the cheapest you can get at your local builder's merchant.

As bankruatsteve notes above, Cotto and AS are reasonably priced and good quality for your flusher. Do watch the height and seat size, you will feel a right plonker testing them out in HomePro but it's worth the embarrassment.

One thing to watch is that you don't overwhelm your septic by installing a flusher as a replacement for a squat, the squat and bucket flush western toilets do use remarkably little water to clear the business compared with the average flusher.

wouldnt the septic work better with more water flushed?

Honestly, I don't know, but something you are missing is that typically people using a squatting shit digester don't use toilet paper/tissue, some times are lucky and have a bum gun or they use little anus washing cups they fill with water and their hand to provide friction from this water to remove the feces, ( how many times you seen soap in Thai toilet on that thought ? )

But most people who desire a western toilet also use toilet tissue that over loads the basic ring hole in the ground system, I to have seen some friends rings, that have never been pumped after many years, (apparently it is 300b to pump out only), but they all limit chemicals and cleaning stuff don there and delibratly put bacteria in there to eat up the brown covered tissues.

[4evermaat]

Changing types of toilets is not as simple as it would sometimes seem. I took out the Thai squatter and replaced it with a western style. The outlet for the squatter was in the front and the outlet for the western style was in the back. The floor in the bathroom was typically concrete so the concrete had to be broken out and the outlet moved back towards the wall.

We have the normal stacked concrete rings septic tank so I put in the bucket flush toilet. We use only the amount of water that is required. The tank has never been pumped out in the 7 years we have been here. Only the toilet drains into the septic tank.

The guy works on houses regularly. From what I understand now, 500 baht if only remove and replace, the 2nd bathroom qualifies. If I want to redo the raised tile, or major shifting for the concrete, etc. 1200 baht was quoted. The first bathroom 1200 baht is required to remove/install the western toliet properly.

........

Honestly, I don't know, but something you are missing is that typically people using a squatting shit digester don't use toilet paper/tissue, some times are lucky and have a bum gun or they use little anus washing cups they fill with water and their hand to provide friction from this water to remove the feces, ( how many times you seen soap in Thai toilet on that thought ? )

But most people who desire a western toilet also use toilet tissue that over loads the basic ring hole in the ground system, I to have seen some friends rings, that have never been pumped after many years, (apparently it is 300b to pump out only), but they all limit chemicals and cleaning stuff don there and delibratly put bacteria in there to eat up the brown covered tissues.

Looks like the toliet from the local dealer was a nasco and I did not like the exit hole (too small). The cotto was 1500 baht they found out after the fact. So it looks like we will order from Home Mart anyway, as the prices are about the same when you factor in running all over trying to find the best deal. I can just order both toliets there. And at least one of the guys there speaks some english.

We have spray bum gun for both toliets. Toilet paper is rarely used.

Edited January 7, 2012 by 4evermaat

[katabeachbum]

For the guests bucket flush job I'd go for the cheapest you can get at your local builder's merchant.

As bankruatsteve notes above, Cotto and AS are reasonably priced and good quality for your flusher. Do watch the height and seat size, you will feel a right plonker testing them out in HomePro but it's worth the embarrassment.

One thing to watch is that you don't overwhelm your septic by installing a flusher as a replacement for a squat, the squat and bucket flush western toilets do use remarkably little water to clear the business compared with the average flusher.

wouldnt the septic work better with more water flushed?

Honestly, I don't know, but something you are missing is that typically people using a squatting shit digester don't use toilet paper/tissue, some times are lucky and have a bum gun or they use little anus washing cups they fill with water and their hand to provide friction from this water to remove the feces, ( how many times you seen soap in Thai toilet on that thought ? )

But most people who desire a western toilet also use toilet tissue that over loads the basic ring hole in the ground system, I to have seen some friends rings, that have never been pumped after many years, (apparently it is 300b to pump out only), but they all limit chemicals and cleaning stuff don there and delibratly put bacteria in there to eat up the brown covered tissues.

I wouldnt call the rings in the grounds a septic, its a huge dump pipe

assuming same shit leaves the toilets, we are all human, and no paper, I would assume my 4000liter 3 chamber is more efficient the more water follows the shit, leaving less ppm to the public klong

all other waist I bypass septik, kitchen goes to grease trap

[bbradsby]

TMI, gents [ too much information ] in this thread, and I have to say ya got me LMAO. There should be a Thread of the Year for the DIY Forum, and this would have to win, hands down!

OK, back on-topic: the western Crapper, named after the inventor, flush toilets are engineered to work with a vigorous, water flush from the cistern/tank attached to the bowl or via a line-pressure flush valve as in commercial establishments. without it, they will likely plug frequently. But you need the head pressure, not all the volume of water in the tank, to properly flush - during California water rationing way back when, we filled milk jugs with gravel and placed them in the tank to displace water and then lowered the flusher's float valve to minimize the amount of water used in each flush.

Today's water saver toilets use a very small amt of water already. So I'd just lower the float and use a modern water saver krapper as-is, to avoid problems. That is, unless you want to make sure your guests don't overstay their welcome! In that case, you just beat the olde standbys of sleeper sofa bed and no closet in the Guestroom! Gents, I salute you

Edited January 9, 2012 by bbradsby

[katabeachbum]

TMI, gents [ too much information ] in this thread, and I have to say ya got me LMAO. There should be a Thread of the Year for the DIY Forum, and this would have to win, hands down!

OK, back on-topic: the western Crapper, named after the inventor, flush toilets are engineered to work with a vigorous, water flush from the cistern/tank attached to the bowl or via a line-pressure flush valve as in commercial establishments. without it, they will likely plug frequently. But you need the head pressure, not all the volume of water in the tank, to properly flush - during California water rationing way back when, we filled milk jugs with gravel and placed them in the tank to displace water and then lowered the flusher's float valve to minimize the amount of water used in each flush.

Today's water saver toilets use a very small amt of water already. So I'd just lower the float and use a modern water saver krapper as-is, to avoid problems. That is, unless you want to make sure your guests don't overstay their welcome! In that case, you just beat the olde standbys of sleeper sofa bed and no closet in the Guestroom! Gents, I salute you

and I will continue to flush my rottweilers business twice

[rgs2001uk]

TMI, gents [ too much information ] in this thread, and I have to say ya got me LMAO. There should be a Thread of the Year for the DIY Forum, and this would have to win, hands down!

OK, back on-topic: the western Crapper, named after the inventor, flush toilets are engineered to work with a vigorous, water flush from the cistern/tank attached to the bowl or via a line-pressure flush valve as in commercial establishments. without it, they will likely plug frequently. But you need the head pressure, not all the volume of water in the tank, to properly flush - during California water rationing way back when, we filled milk jugs with gravel and placed them in the tank to displace water and then lowered the flusher's float valve to minimize the amount of water used in each flush.

Today's water saver toilets use a very small amt of water already. So I'd just lower the float and use a modern water saver krapper as-is, to avoid problems. That is, unless you want to make sure your guests don't overstay their welcome! In that case, you just beat the olde standbys of sleeper sofa bed and no closet in the Guestroom! Gents, I salute you

"during California water rationing way back when, we filled milk jugs with gravel and placed them in the tank to displace water"

Try Yorkshire, they place house bricks in the cistern all year round, water shortage or not.

[mackes]

About charge. Consider that a Thai worker get a salary at the most

10 000 Baht per month and then working 5 days a week, a low count makes 200 hours. That will do 50 Baht per hour or 24 hours to mount one toilet (no material counts but pvc

and concrete is cheap. Far to much if you don't want to support the guy...

[4evermaat]

About charge. Consider that a Thai worker get a salary at the most

10 000 Baht per month and then working 5 days a week, a low count makes 200 hours. That will do 50 Baht per hour or 24 hours to mount one toilet (no material counts but pvc

and concrete is cheap. Far to much if you don't want to support the guy...

I suppose I could shop around, but the guy is reliable and accessible (which is something to consider here). It's not just a remove/replace job. The exit holes will not line up properly anyway, even if the toilet didn't have to be moved back (which it will anyway). Unfortunately Thais didn't usually future-proof the previous toilet work here. Normal circumstances it would be about 500 baht.

Plus the gf "not want to think too much". Even if she understands the value of asking around, she can be a bit stubborn about it.

[KRS1]

Whatever you get, dont get one that is too low to the ground. Whenever your finished taking a dump you have to bend over lower to press the lever/button and it brings your face closer to the stank. If it doesn't flush everything on the first try, you'll have to repeat the face in bowl act again.

If you get one that has low flushing force sometimes you have to hold the lever/button down to get that extra spiralling force to get everything flushed extending the length of time you have to inhale your own stank. This is where a toilet with a low height will once again ruin your day.

in other words get a taller toilet that is very powerful, you can add milk jugs, coke bottles or bricks later !

Edited January 12, 2012 by KRS1

[Semper]

What can we do with the thai toliets that we are ripping out? Any re-sale/re-use value or just give them away?

ebay

[lopburi3]

Highly recommend Cotto 12027 model below (it is a high unit) - expensive but excellent cleaning with little water (almost none in bowl) - have just replaced a second fixture on ground level with lines below tank level and where old with high water volume had real flush issues. This works without fail. Have had another for more than a year into same septic system and very happy with it.

http://www.cotto.co.th/kk/_product.php?&pd=2&pdt=15&pda=1&startrow=&lg=th&viewproductsID=1092

[4evermaat]

i already bought the flushless cotto unit 1220(?) (cannot find it on cotto website, homemart only had 1). Looks like 2-3 days to break out the old thai toliet and realign the exit hole, re-fill concrete with new tile, and install new toilet, with breaks in between.

The other unit with top flush I believe was this American Standard model. http://www.americans...2&detailid=1150 . It was on sale for 2400b. It's already on a raised concrete block.

Question: I notice that the water hose (bum gun) in most thai homes do not have a shut off valve to the water and many exit points for water do not have shut off valves if it is meant to be controlled elsewhere (the bum gun has its own on/off switch). Is it have something to do with "the cheapest way possible" attitude? Valves are not that expensive.

I've had 3 bum guns fail. it's not the point that they failed, but there was no shut off to stop the water immediately. This sucks if you do not have the means to repair immediately.

Now with the case of a bungalow, perhaps it is understandable in the sense that there is only 1 bathroom and 3 water points: the bum gun, shower, and face basin faucet. Then there is a master shut off valve outside for each bungalo. But in a house/apt with multiple water outlets, having a shut off valve at each water point in case of device failure beyond the value should be standard, right?

Of course I have instructed the plumber to install shut off valves for each water exit (for the flusher toliet, initially there was only 1 shutoff valve for the bum gun, but continuous water flow to toilet....well there was a problem with the configuration where the inside flap check valve did not close properly, causing the flush cycle to be continuous. It was fixed and no problem since, but it was interesting to see him work with the water continuously filling up the bowl and having to lift up the flapper every so often to empty the tank. Having a shut off valve would have helped.

Edited January 24, 2012 by 4evermaat

[rgs2001uk]

^^^^^, just about every home I have looked at have had shut off valves fitted for the toilet, sink and bum gun.

The only reason I can think of for not having them is money and choosing not to have them fitted.

Last time I had to replace a flapper valve, it was simple, turn off water, flush toilet and replace valve then turn on water again.

I was only alerted to the fact because the water pump was coming on and off by itself, repacing the flapper valve solved that.

[4evermaat]

^^^^^, just about every home I have looked at have had shut off valves fitted for the toilet, sink and bum gun.

The only reason I can think of for not having them is money and choosing not to have them fitted.

Last time I had to replace a flapper valve, it was simple, turn off water, flush toilet and replace valve then turn on water again.

I was only alerted to the fact because the water pump was coming on and off by itself, repacing the flapper valve solved that.

100 baht to install and 100 baht or so for the valve. maybe a few more baht for extra pipe in between. I don't see when the original builders are charging 100-300,000 baht for a new home, why little things like that would be ignored.

i already bought the flushless cotto unit 1220(?) (cannot find it on cotto website, homemart only had 1). .......

I do see the label now that it is installed. C6643 (WH) pale flush. still not on the cotto website, but another website has an image of it: http://www.light-and-bath.com/index.php?lay=show&ac=cat_show_pro_detail&cid=41335&pid=217601