Common Courtesy In Thailand

[ashacat]

Agree with the O.P. 100% common courtesy towards strangers is not common here, certainly not in the way it is in the West. In contrast to a couple of other posters in this thread I have always found the British to have high level of common courtesy and politeness (chavs excluded).

[kerryk]

Agree with the O.P. 100% common courtesy towards strangers is not common here, certainly not in the way it is in the West. In contrast to a couple of other posters in this thread I have always found the British to have high level of common courtesy and politeness (chavs excluded).

Did you read the 38 pages of a thread called, "The grumpiest man in Thailand?" 38 pages about adult men trying to upset an old grumpy man. What is the favourite vacation destination for Chavs in Asia?

[DocN]

I just stick to what I have learnt: holding a door open, letting someone (especially ladies) go first etc.

Still I get (depending on how I got up) aggressive sometimes, if people are just rude...and yes, I tend to forget that this is Thailand and things are handeled differently here.

Shirt and long sleeves - a must! But you can wear flip flops with it!

[jimbeam1]

The way your mummy taught you to behave is different to the way my mummy taught me to behave. So my idea of "common courtesy" might have some similarities to you, but also some differences. Since there are billions of mummies in the world, I think we can assume that courtesy is similarly variegated, and respond accordingly - that is, with calm indifference to the behaviour of others.

Quite, nature versus nurture, but I would add.

Why does almost an entire nation think that it is perfectly Ok to go knuckle deep in their noses in plain view, but cover their mouths when using a tooth-pick?

I'd just love some one to explain that.

Post of the year and i'ts only 05/01/12

jb1

[jimbeam1]

Agree with the O.P. 100% common courtesy towards strangers is not common here, certainly not in the way it is in the West. In contrast to a couple of other posters in this thread I have always found the British to have high level of common courtesy and politeness (chavs excluded).

Did you read the 38 pages of a thread called, "The grumpiest man in Thailand?" 38 pages about adult men trying to upset an old grumpy man. What is the favourite vacation destination for Chavs in Asia?

Did you notice when it was first posted?

jb1

[thaihome]

I just stick to what I have learnt: holding a door open, letting someone (especially ladies) go first etc.

...

Do you realize how confusing and against everything she was taught about being polite it is for you to hold the door open for lady significantly younger than you?

That little giggle you get when you do so is one of extreme embarrassment at an older person holding the door for her. From her perspective, she should be doing that for you.

TH

[DocN]

I just stick to what I have learnt: holding a door open, letting someone (especially ladies) go first etc.

...

Do you realize how confusing and against everything she was taught about being polite it is for you to hold the door open for lady significantly younger than you?

That little giggle you get when you do so is one of extreme embarrassment at an older person holding the door for her. From her perspective, she should be doing that for you.

TH

....so?

Does she do it?

No!

Let her giggle all she wants, there are things I simply do not give a rats-@ss about.

Or in other words "mai pen rai" or "arai go dai"!

[kerryk]

Agree with the O.P. 100% common courtesy towards strangers is not common here, certainly not in the way it is in the West. In contrast to a couple of other posters in this thread I have always found the British to have high level of common courtesy and politeness (chavs excluded).

Did you read the 38 pages of a thread called, "The grumpiest man in Thailand?" 38 pages about adult men trying to upset an old grumpy man. What is the favourite vacation destination for Chavs in Asia?

Did you notice when it was first posted?

jb1

Yes I did. So, are Farang manners getting better or worse and I am not talking about the new trend of tourists from the former USSR although I guess that would be an appropriate discussion when discussing courtesy.

Edited January 5, 2012 by kerryk

[Ijustwannateach]

I don't think it's always deliberate discourtesy; more a complete lack of awareness and consideration. In the first instance (lady at the door in the mall) I wouldn't be so sure that she DID notice you, OP. Thais have an amazing ability- even when faced with my large frame- not to notice me when they are in their 'zombie walker' mode. In some instances, I will be walking through bottlenecks on the sidewalk of the type you describe, and the Thais on the other side will simply come ahead- even though it is extra-impossible they will be able to get around me. When they meet me coming the other way, I stop and wait for them to 'wake up'- they really do act surprised I am there- and then they have to go back the other way and wait for me to come out.

It is a bit less excusable when they treat me as some kind of inanimate obstacle, as OP describes with the 'pushy' lady. If they are simply getting my attention so that I can assist them in passing, by tapping on my shoulder or elbow, then I am all smiles and do as much as I can. If they start using what counts (for them) as heavy physical force, I just go into la-la land and pretend I don't even notice them. They usually do much more damage to themselves than they have a hope of accomplishing to me.

Once or twice they have been so rude and pushy (usually involving alcohol, too), even ignoring my polite attempts to alert them that I was not comfortable, that I felt a response was called for, and I exerted a small part of my strength to push back. Usually they decided to maintain the wide, clear berth that such actions provided for me.

[bkkjames]

I got yelled at the other day for holding a door open for an old lady - times have changed.

[Berkshire]

Their manners are just different from ours. It is not that they do not have any. Most Thai people are are a lot more polite than most Westerners that I see here.

The most fair and reasonable post on this thread. Have these expats never been to Korea or China? It's an Asian thing and it's not really about "common courtesy."

[wamberal]

The way your mummy taught you to behave is different to the way my mummy taught me to behave. So my idea of "common courtesy" might have some similarities to you, but also some differences. Since there are billions of mummies in the world, I think we can assume that courtesy is similarly variegated, and respond accordingly - that is, with calm indifference to the behaviour of others.

Quite, nature versus nurture, but I would add.

Why does almost an entire nation think that it is perfectly Ok to go knuckle deep in their noses in plain view, but cover their mouths when using a tooth-pick?

I'd just love some one to explain that.

It is pretty common practice in Asia to cover the mouth when picking the teeth. Something about the mouth being shameful, in some way or other. I do not claim to understand this shibboleth, but then, I don't have to. Other cultures do not necessarily understand my shibboleths, either.

In the dim, dark, distant, past I seem to remember that bargirls would do just about anything, but they did not like to kiss, mouth to mouth. Perhaps this is relevant.

This has nothing at all to do with with nature versus nurture, it is all nurture.

[bonobo]

I realize that we all view politeness and manners through the prism of our culture. But sometimes, the "Thai way" has me boggled. A case in point has recently gotten my goat.

A friend of mine's mother has to go from Naratiwat to Hat Yai weekly for medical treatment and what with the danger of being out on the road after dark, the kids decided to pitch in and buy a used car so someone could drive her. The problem is that car prices are even more exorbitant down there than up here in Bangkok, so they decided to buy one here. The next problem is that no one in the family is a good driver, or with an earned license (vice paid-for license), and they were afraid to drive it down south. Enter me. I was asked to help. And after a 6 hour day buying the car, another day getting it registered, and three days back and forth getting it repaired, I left New year's Eve at 3:00 AM for the trip. Due to torrential rains and car problems, I pulled into the small village at about 7:00 PM.

The mother did greet me, and one of the grandkids came up and gave me a sawadi kha, but the kids ignored me as they finished their dinner. A neighbor, full of New Year's cheer (homemade whiskey) called me over to offer me snort, but the family ignored me. No food, no greeting. The son came over shortly and asked for the keys, which i gave. This was the only time he addressed me. I gave him the keys, then he turned and walked off.

I am basically in house arrest until daybreak (the soldiers would not let anyone in nor out of the village), sitting in a small concrete home, with not enough light to even read. As I was tired from driving all day, I fell asleep early. In the morning, once again, no greeting, no thanks. Another relative took me to the airport around 10, and I flew back.

I am not sure how many hours I spent on this stupid car. But just the drive down there was a pain in the you-know-what. And not one word of thanks, not even a greeting except from the mother and one young grandchild. No meal, either. And you know what? I was pretty ticked off. Different cultures or not, I can't see how you would expect someone to go out of his way like that for a huge favor, and not thank the person. Not only not thank him, but totally ignore him.

[BookMan]

Every time I go to the mall a Thai person opens the door for me and salutes.

[bkkjames]

Every time I go to the mall a Thai person opens the door for me and salutes.

That's his job, he would be fired if he didnt do it. Take the uniform off and he would gladly slam it it shut in your face lol

[Fookhaht]

It happens.

On a particularly tiring day on the sky train at Siam people all tried to barge through me and the other people trying to get off I had enough and grabbed the guy trying to barge through me by his shirt and took him with me until I reached the escalators.

I hope he waits in place for his turn next time.

You did what 80% (or more?) of the rest of us have thought of doing.

Seriously, this "be rude to strangers" but overly-polite and deferential to friends and those you know is endemic to most all Asian cultures. Seems like only in the west are people programmed to treat strangers with, what we think of, as "common courtesy."

Even in overly-polite Japan, you take your life in your hands when you board the train, as the "official pushers" with white gloves push your backside mercilessly to fit you onto the cattle car. A completely de-humanizing experience for a westerner. In Korea, pedestrian passers-by will practically knock you to the ground with their shoulders if you venture too close to their personal space. Another humiliating experience to which you better not respond in kind to the aggressor.

In Thailand, the dark-shaded glass of one's car/SUV (thereby making you "anonymous" to other drivers) turns this Asian trait into a particularly lethal national characteristic.

You're not in Kansas, any more Dorothy.

Edited January 5, 2012 by Fookhaht

[ExpatJ]

Classic "I'm a grumpy old white man" thread.

I'll bet relevant posters are all 50 years plus in age and i should know i can feel myself becoming one - though am trying to fight it, because its just sad more than anything else.

[Fookhaht]

I realize that we all view politeness and manners through the prism of our culture. But sometimes, the "Thai way" has me boggled. A case in point has recently gotten my goat.

A friend of mine's mother has to go from Naratiwat to Hat Yai weekly for medical treatment and what with the danger of being out on the road after dark, the kids decided to pitch in and buy a used car so someone could drive her. The problem is that car prices are even more exorbitant down there than up here in Bangkok, so they decided to buy one here. The next problem is that no one in the family is a good driver, or with an earned license (vice paid-for license), and they were afraid to drive it down south. Enter me. I was asked to help. And after a 6 hour day buying the car, another day getting it registered, and three days back and forth getting it repaired, I left New year's Eve at 3:00 AM for the trip. Due to torrential rains and car problems, I pulled into the small village at about 7:00 PM.

The mother did greet me, and one of the grandkids came up and gave me a sawadi kha, but the kids ignored me as they finished their dinner. A neighbor, full of New Year's cheer (homemade whiskey) called me over to offer me snort, but the family ignored me. No food, no greeting. The son came over shortly and asked for the keys, which i gave. This was the only time he addressed me. I gave him the keys, then he turned and walked off.

I am basically in house arrest until daybreak (the soldiers would not let anyone in nor out of the village), sitting in a small concrete home, with not enough light to even read. As I was tired from driving all day, I fell asleep early. In the morning, once again, no greeting, no thanks. Another relative took me to the airport around 10, and I flew back.

I am not sure how many hours I spent on this stupid car. But just the drive down there was a pain in the you-know-what. And not one word of thanks, not even a greeting except from the mother and one young grandchild. No meal, either. And you know what? I was pretty ticked off. Different cultures or not, I can't see how you would expect someone to go out of his way like that for a huge favor, and not thank the person. Not only not thank him, but totally ignore him.

Generally, I'm pretty happy here, but once in a blue moon I come across treatment like this.

As pre-arranged, I drove an hour by motorcycle across the province to help celebrate the birthday of a friend, taking with me a nice shirt as a gift. I got to the place of rendezvous, and waited 90 minutes past the meeting time. When I called, they said, "Oh I'm with friends and can't come, sorry." No offer to join them, or even an offer of an overnight room (it was now dark), and no comment when I mentioned I would have to motorcycle back in the dark on country roads (absolutely the last thing I ever want to do). When I saw the friend later, it was as if nothing out of the ordinary had happened. I'm still pissed.

[BookMan]

Every time I go to the mall a Thai person opens the door for me and salutes.

That's his job, he would be fired if he didnt do it. Take the uniform off and he would gladly slam it it shut in your face lol

I find that hard to believe. Next you will be telling me the girls at the supermarket checkout HAVE to give me a 'wai' and 'thankyou'.

[travelmann]

The way your mummy taught you to behave is different to the way my mummy taught me to behave. So my idea of "common courtesy" might have some similarities to you, but also some differences. Since there are billions of mummies in the world, I think we can assume that courtesy is similarly variegated, and respond accordingly - that is, with calm indifference to the behaviour of others.

Quite, nature versus nurture, but I would add.

Why does almost an entire nation think that it is perfectly Ok to go knuckle deep in their noses in plain view, but cover their mouths when using a tooth-pick?

I'd just love some one to explain that.

Don't forget plucking armpit hair in public and squeezing pimples but are those things discourteous? I find blowing ones nose on the sidewalk worse than spitting. Seems Western people are inclined to do this more than Thai people. But Thai people don't blow their noses at all do they? Where does it go? Older European apartments and indeed even the Orient Express train did not have showers in the rooms. How one could travel from London to Istanbul without a shower is beyond me.

Have you ever been in a Thai toilet ???? I can tell you where it goes, you can hear it going there when they all start hocking it up, even my wife does this in the bathroom everyday.

Thais also take a Pee where ever they like seen this often, especially motorcycle taxis.. Seen many Thais hock it up on the street as well and gob it out, yummy!!

[Ohyesuare]

Go back to your home countries and if you live in a big city I bet you will find most people (even people in customer service jobs, unlike Thailand) to be as rude if not ruder then here.

The only exception probably is Japan but I believe they are brainwashed somehow lol. When I was there almost every place had some kind of repeated automated announcement saying the same thing over and over. The one from the train station is still stuck in my head to this day, and I was last there a few years ago.

[travelmann]

I don't think it's always deliberate discourtesy; more a complete lack of awareness and consideration. In the first instance (lady at the door in the mall) I wouldn't be so sure that she DID notice you, OP. Thais have an amazing ability- even when faced with my large frame- not to notice me when they are in their 'zombie walker' mode. In some instances, I will be walking through bottlenecks on the sidewalk of the type you describe, and the Thais on the other side will simply come ahead- even though it is extra-impossible they will be able to get around me. When they meet me coming the other way, I stop and wait for them to 'wake up'- they really do act surprised I am there- and then they have to go back the other way and wait for me to come out.

It is a bit less excusable when they treat me as some kind of inanimate obstacle, as OP describes with the 'pushy' lady. If they are simply getting my attention so that I can assist them in passing, by tapping on my shoulder or elbow, then I am all smiles and do as much as I can. If they start using what counts (for them) as heavy physical force, I just go into la-la land and pretend I don't even notice them. They usually do much more damage to themselves than they have a hope of accomplishing to me.

Once or twice they have been so rude and pushy (usually involving alcohol, too), even ignoring my polite attempts to alert them that I was not comfortable, that I felt a response was called for, and I exerted a small part of my strength to push back. Usually they decided to maintain the wide, clear berth that such actions provided for me.

Its funny but oh so true the "zombie state" usually entrenched in a phone, I see them coming and stop dead and then let them walk into me hitting me and then they start apologising, its funny until you realise maybe thats how they drive too????

[bkkjames]

Reminds me of the time when I opened the door briskly at a barbershop need suk soi 5 and smacked a girl in the head sitting on the other side. I said sorry and sat in my chair, she started to whine farang this and that and I got up and walked over to her and said, if your fat ass wasn't sitting in front of the door your small head woudn't have got hit +++ expletives and left.

[Gers1873]

Lots of times on places such as Thailand and China its not 'rudeness' or even 'bad manners' it is just a different 'protocol' from what has evolved in many Western cultures over centuries. In China there appears little concept of privacy (people having a crap with the stall door wide open) or of 'individual space' results in lots of pushing and shoving which many Westerners take for rudeness.

That said you will 'rude' eople in many societies. More down to the individual than anything else.

[SimonD]

I don't think it's always deliberate discourtesy; more a complete lack of awareness and consideration. In the first instance (lady at the door in the mall) I wouldn't be so sure that she DID notice you, OP. Thais have an amazing ability- even when faced with my large frame- not to notice me when they are in their 'zombie walker' mode. In some instances, I will be walking through bottlenecks on the sidewalk of the type you describe, and the Thais on the other side will simply come ahead- even though it is extra-impossible they will be able to get around me. When they meet me coming the other way, I stop and wait for them to 'wake up'- they really do act surprised I am there- and then they have to go back the other way and wait for me to come out.

It is a bit less excusable when they treat me as some kind of inanimate obstacle, as OP describes with the 'pushy' lady. If they are simply getting my attention so that I can assist them in passing, by tapping on my shoulder or elbow, then I am all smiles and do as much as I can. If they start using what counts (for them) as heavy physical force, I just go into la-la land and pretend I don't even notice them. They usually do much more damage to themselves than they have a hope of accomplishing to me.

Once or twice they have been so rude and pushy (usually involving alcohol, too), even ignoring my polite attempts to alert them that I was not comfortable, that I felt a response was called for, and I exerted a small part of my strength to push back. Usually they decided to maintain the wide, clear berth that such actions provided for me.

Its funny but oh so true the "zombie state" usually entrenched in a phone, I see them coming and stop dead and then let them walk into me hitting me and then they start apologising, its funny until you realise maybe thats how they drive too????

This is so true. The number of times I've been in the supermarket with my missus and watched as she has a head-on collision with another shopper is astonishing. Without a word they disentangle the carts and carry on as before. Not a word is spoken or any acknowledgement of the 'incident' made by either party. It's like they're in a world of their own.

[Travel2003]

Skipping the previous 50+ replies.

OP said it himself in first post when stated "So what is it with this culture?".

It is a completely different culture, with sometimes completely different priorities in the society.

Easy as that.

[ttthailand]

You think Thailand is bad, go to China. Waiting in line is a joke. People jump in front of you like you are not even there. I think they have been pushed aside and taken advantage of so much that they think if they don't act the way they do they will not get ahead. They look for and take every advantage. Common courtesy is for those in the west although that is sometimes debatable.

[richard_smith237]

IMO: People can be rude everywhere. Thailand certainly doesn't monopolize this trait. If we are to compare our own Capital Cities to Bangkok I suspect there is more potential for confrontation in our home capitals than awaits us in Bangkok.

Kraeng-Jai is the kicker in Thailand. We have all seen someone almost fall over themselves trying to be as polite as possible, that very same person who does know how to be polite when it counts can behave downright despicably to someone they perceive to be of lower status or do not know.

With regards to manners and courtesy I see a general level of hypocrisy in Thailand not observed in the West. Yet on the whole with the absence of confrontation (or all attempts made to avoid it) there is generally a more relaxed approach to life.

I hate the people who refuse to say thanks when I hold a door open for them. I do speak up. I know I can't re-educate a nation. I don't let it get to me though as I try to understand that in most cases its not poor manners, its ignorance which IMO is very similar but somewhat more innocent.

Edited January 5, 2012 by richard_smith237

[mca]

I hate the people who refuse to say thanks when I hold a door open for them.

My favourite is where they stop halfway through the door and continue a conversation with their pal while I stand there holding the door. My parents raised me to be polite not to be a bloody bellboy.

[draftvader]

I hate the people who refuse to say thanks when I hold a door open for them.

My favourite is where they stop halfway through the door and continue a conversation with their pal while I stand there holding the door. My parents raised me to be polite not to be a bloody bellboy.

At that point you let go and continue on your way. You've offered the olive branch of polite-ness, but you don't have to do that if they aren't polite to you.

On another note I was genuinely pleased, and visibly grateful, the other day when a man waited 5 seconds to hold a door for me in the car park in Central. Even more so when he acknowledged my gratitude with a genuine smile. See, does happen sometimes. Same as England really.