Entry Level Euro Car New/2Nd Hand - Some Advice Please From Experts...

[chris2004]

Have had, in Thailand, a C180, 320i, and an X3 2.0d.

The C180, bought new, was a nice car, but expensive when something broke (although dirt cheap compared to what it would have cost in the UK).

The 320i, bought a year old, generally had nothing go wrong, obviously as most things were covered in the free servicing. Recently sold though as it was coming to the end of the free servicing, AND we're heading back to the UK later this year, so we've dropped down to two cars. One thing I would say is it never felt as fast as I'd expected...

The X3, bought new, is my favourite of the 3 European cars we've had here. It's faster than the 320i was (which suggests the 320d would be faster than the 320i too), and so far nothings gone wrong other than having to replace a couple of tyres, and that was from apparently driving over a nail somewhere.

However, if anyone asks me what car to get in Thailand, especially if they're carrying passengers and going upcountry, it's the Fortuner... You can almost buy 3 of them for the cost of one X3, and it's got 7 seats, with plenty of rear legroom (although the 3rd row is strictly kids), even if the driver's got his seat all the way back. Toyota dealers are everywhere, so servicing's not a problem anywhere.

Am even thinking of bringing my Fortuner to the UK in the return, although the difference in price of used cars between the two countries will probably rule that out as just too wasteful of money.

Interesting post and valuable advice

But why do people always seem to slag off Fortuna's...or is it their drivers?

Although I've never driven or sat in one I think I they look alright for what they are.

RAZZ

I can understand a Fortuner if you live up country but they are crazy for a small town like Pattaya. Why do you need a tank like that for the town. The drivers are usually mad and take up most of the road, a real menace.

Edited January 20, 2012 by chris2004

[richard_smith237]

Have had, in Thailand, a C180, 320i, and an X3 2.0d.

The C180, bought new, was a nice car, but expensive when something broke (although dirt cheap compared to what it would have cost in the UK).

The 320i, bought a year old, generally had nothing go wrong, obviously as most things were covered in the free servicing. Recently sold though as it was coming to the end of the free servicing, AND we're heading back to the UK later this year, so we've dropped down to two cars. One thing I would say is it never felt as fast as I'd expected...

The X3, bought new, is my favourite of the 3 European cars we've had here. It's faster than the 320i was (which suggests the 320d would be faster than the 320i too), and so far nothings gone wrong other than having to replace a couple of tyres, and that was from apparently driving over a nail somewhere.

However, if anyone asks me what car to get in Thailand, especially if they're carrying passengers and going upcountry, it's the Fortuner... You can almost buy 3 of them for the cost of one X3, and it's got 7 seats, with plenty of rear legroom (although the 3rd row is strictly kids), even if the driver's got his seat all the way back. Toyota dealers are everywhere, so servicing's not a problem anywhere.

Am even thinking of bringing my Fortuner to the UK in the return, although the difference in price of used cars between the two countries will probably rule that out as just too wasteful of money.

Interesting post and valuable advice

But why do people always seem to slag off Fortuna's...or is it their drivers?

Although I've never driven or sat in one I think I they look alright for what they are.

RAZZ

I can understand a Fortuner if you live up country but they are crazy for a small town like Pattaya. Why do you need a tank like that for the town. The drivers are usually mad and take up most of the road, a real menace.

Understandable question which I'll try and answer: I drive my Range Rover, my Wife drives her A Class Mercedes. On occasion I drive my Wife’s car and find it frightening. Other cars simply don’t see you !!! OK they do, but in my Range Rover other cars give you space, they give way more readily and if I am nosing out into traffic the oncoming cars are more prone to giving way. Conversely when driving my Wife’s car, other cars are more aggressive with me, they don't give way, if I'm trying to pull out they accelerate right up to the last point then slam on their brakes when they realize I am pulling out. I’ve had more close calls when driving my wife’s car simply because the other road users some how subconsciously have no respect for the presence and space for and around the smaller car.

In short, I find other road users pay greater attention when there is a larger vehicle around, conversely, when in a smaller vehicle I am made to understand how motorcyclists must feel.

It really is 'Law of the jungle' out there, the bigger you are the safer you are !...

With the height you can see over most cars and have more time to react. In traffic jams you can see more around you.

The additional size is not that of a Tank. Yes, the cars are bigger, but the footprint is not significantly more. These larger cars still readily fit parking spaces (they are not Hummer H2's !)...

I for one in general find driving a larger vehicle such as my Range Rover or a Fortuner much more enjoyable simply due to the improved vision. Of course, these larger vehicles do not go round corners as well as a sedan, but I rarely push it round corners anyway due to the general poor road quality. 300 naturally aspirated Horses in a Range Rover out accelerates a lot of cars (I'm sure that might attainable in a Fortuner with the correct tuning) and jumps from 60 kph to 120 khp in the blinking of an eye when you need that burst of power...

Simply put - Large cars are no longer Tanks....

That said, some fortuner drivers do appear more menacing. However, IMO that reverts back to what I wrote about drivers being more conscious of the larger vehicles around them. We take less notice of and pay less attention to a smaller car even when they are driving assertively.

[steveromagnino]

ok so the update.....

Have test driven the non S version of a mini (club man actually) brand new; great handling with a major lack of power; driving like that is a waste of time; also the current model is facing a new model in 2013 so it's probably not the best idea to spend a ton of cash on one. Have looked at a few 2nd hand R53 minis; seems like a no brainer as they are only 1.1-1.4m baht in a manual, and ready to modify with a well listed set of mods that can be done to get a bit more power out of them (the engine puts out less power than the current R56 model). Interior is a bit basic, but can always tolerate it as it's a cheap used car.

Interestingly, there have been around the same number of Sciroccos sold in the last year as Mini Cooper Ss, but of course Mini there are many more models than just the Cooper S (although most of the rest aren't so interesting). Still need to test drive one; the ABT variants I still don't know if they are legit Thai Yarnyon ones or legit (in a way) ABT ones (ABT being the equivalent to AC Schneizer, Lorinser, etc) which Thai Yarnyon will service, or grey market ones (in which case the general consensus seems to be you buy, drive up until just before it has problems and then hand the problem to some poor sucker next in line, not my idea of fun buying/selling). Anyhow will look at these; have already looked at and discarded 1 series, Golf, Alfa, Fiat, etc as options; brother has a Subaru so no point in getting another one out here.

Thai Yarnyon are the successor to Thai Yontrakit (part of the same group) and have broken away and are now looking to list and do business on their own away from all the other Yontrakit companies (Chery, Audi, etc) so hopefully they will put Passat and Golfs etc back on the map...but you cannot count on that.

Test driven a BMW 320, Benz, Lexus is250 and Volvo; none would I describe as a driver's car although all very comfortable as you expect; the BMW variants that are drivers cars are beyond my budget and/or headed for depreciation when the new 4 cylinder models replace them next year (but released in the market here in just another 3 months). Now things are looking up (maybe) with Ford....

Despite d&*king their customers around for a year (when I first joined the queue for a 3.2), Ford have been offered a good trade on my pickup, so will likely get both a wildtrak 4 door 2WD diesel and a fun car; it's within my 2.1-2.2m budget pretty much, and solves the issue of the odd time I need to cart people around. They claim now delivery in April for sure, but as the Who says, we won't be fooled again.

With the Mini fun car option, the depreciation is likely to be lower than the Scirocco; but I will reserve judgment until I test Cooper s against the 2.0 assuming the ABT option goes no where.

[WarpSpeed]

Have you looked at any VW/Audi?

Yeah like the new PassatCC? Saw one being flat towed to somewhere the other day and it was sweet looking...No idea on price though...

JFYI they have a licensed ABT franchise here in Thailand..

http://www.abt-thailand.com/

Edited January 23, 2012 by WarpSpeed

[VanillaSky123]

Pretty much in the same dilema....test drove the S60, nice drive, actually was pleasantly surprised by the decent oomph of the engine. Love the interior and especially the seats. Still wanted to have something a bit 'faster'. Definitely don't like the depreciation here.

Saw the new C200 CGI with 7speed, base model at 2.15. Good deal, although many things are option...even the parking sensor!!! and they only have them in silver, black and grey....inside they are now much improved, but the rear end doesn't really excite me. Good resale though.

I believe somebody has mentioned European Hot hatches....there is one now here, or can be ordered. The Citroen DS3 THP 150, which is the turbo version, same engine as the MINI Cooper S, but slightly different tune. Style is pretty ok...at least it stands out, although again the rear isn't great. Price NEW: 1.69m. Good reviews all over...fast, fun and stylish!

Going to have a look at the DS3 in Bangkok this weekend, not so sure about space and all.

Why is it so darn hard to find a decent 0-100km/h in about 7-8 sec car, new here in Thailand under 2m Baht...i guess the Scirocco is still the one to beat...

Anything upcoming in the next few months? When is the next Motorshow?

[Presto]

Pretty much in the same dilema....test drove the S60, nice drive, actually was pleasantly surprised by the decent oomph of the engine. Love the interior and especially the seats. Still wanted to have something a bit 'faster'. Definitely don't like the depreciation here.

Saw the new C200 CGI with 7speed, base model at 2.15. Good deal, although many things are option...even the parking sensor!!! and they only have them in silver, black and grey....inside they are now much improved, but the rear end doesn't really excite me. Good resale though.

I believe somebody has mentioned European Hot hatches....there is one now here, or can be ordered. The Citroen DS3 THP 150, which is the turbo version, same engine as the MINI Cooper S, but slightly different tune. Style is pretty ok...at least it stands out, although again the rear isn't great. Price NEW: 1.69m. Good reviews all over...fast, fun and stylish!

Going to have a look at the DS3 in Bangkok this weekend, not so sure about space and all.

Why is it so darn hard to find a decent 0-100km/h in about 7-8 sec car, new here in Thailand under 2m Baht...i guess the Scirocco is still the one to beat...

Anything upcoming in the next few months? When is the next Motorshow?

A Volvo C30 T5 (with the 5 cylinder 230 hp turbo engine, up to 2009 I believe) should do those acceleration figures. Easy. Chip it and go under 6 secs.

Edited January 24, 2012 by Presto

[bkkjames]

just found this in the classifieds http://classifieds.thaivisa.com/automotives-vehicles/cars/vw-scirocco-136888.html

[bkkjames]

just found this in the classifieds http://classifieds.t...cco-136888.html

newish scirroco

[ignis]

Why is it so darn hard to find a decent 0-100km/h in about 7-8 sec

No matter were you go if you have to stop at lights there is always a little motorbike or scooter that gets in front of you....... where can you use a good 0 -100 ?

[Presto]

Sorry steveromagnino, its not coming:

http://www.inautonews.com/mini-rocketman-won%E2%80%99t-be-manufactured

[VanillaSky123]

Why is it so darn hard to find a decent 0-100km/h in about 7-8 sec

No matter were you go if you have to stop at lights there is always a little motorbike or scooter that gets in front of you....... where can you use a good 0 -100 ?

Of course I am not racing at every traffic light, it was just an indication of the speed I want in my car....fast & fun, yet reliable and affordable....yeah, I know....dreamland...or rather Thailand!

[VanillaSky123]

Pretty much in the same dilema....test drove the S60, nice drive, actually was pleasantly surprised by the decent oomph of the engine. Love the interior and especially the seats. Still wanted to have something a bit 'faster'. Definitely don't like the depreciation here.

Saw the new C200 CGI with 7speed, base model at 2.15. Good deal, although many things are option...even the parking sensor!!! and they only have them in silver, black and grey....inside they are now much improved, but the rear end doesn't really excite me. Good resale though.

I believe somebody has mentioned European Hot hatches....there is one now here, or can be ordered. The Citroen DS3 THP 150, which is the turbo version, same engine as the MINI Cooper S, but slightly different tune. Style is pretty ok...at least it stands out, although again the rear isn't great. Price NEW: 1.69m. Good reviews all over...fast, fun and stylish!

Going to have a look at the DS3 in Bangkok this weekend, not so sure about space and all.

Why is it so darn hard to find a decent 0-100km/h in about 7-8 sec car, new here in Thailand under 2m Baht...i guess the Scirocco is still the one to beat...

Anything upcoming in the next few months? When is the next Motorshow?

A Volvo C30 T5 (with the 5 cylinder 230 hp turbo engine, up to 2009 I believe) should do those acceleration figures. Easy. Chip it and go under 6 secs.

Any idea where to get one of those here in Thailand....couldn't find one!

[Presto]

Pretty much in the same dilema....test drove the S60, nice drive, actually was pleasantly surprised by the decent oomph of the engine. Love the interior and especially the seats. Still wanted to have something a bit 'faster'. Definitely don't like the depreciation here.

Saw the new C200 CGI with 7speed, base model at 2.15. Good deal, although many things are option...even the parking sensor!!! and they only have them in silver, black and grey....inside they are now much improved, but the rear end doesn't really excite me. Good resale though.

I believe somebody has mentioned European Hot hatches....there is one now here, or can be ordered. The Citroen DS3 THP 150, which is the turbo version, same engine as the MINI Cooper S, but slightly different tune. Style is pretty ok...at least it stands out, although again the rear isn't great. Price NEW: 1.69m. Good reviews all over...fast, fun and stylish!

Going to have a look at the DS3 in Bangkok this weekend, not so sure about space and all.

Why is it so darn hard to find a decent 0-100km/h in about 7-8 sec car, new here in Thailand under 2m Baht...i guess the Scirocco is still the one to beat...

Anything upcoming in the next few months? When is the next Motorshow?

A Volvo C30 T5 (with the 5 cylinder 230 hp turbo engine, up to 2009 I believe) should do those acceleration figures. Easy. Chip it and go under 6 secs.

Any idea where to get one of those here in Thailand....couldn't find one!

Yes, you're right, I also could only find 2.4i non-turbo models. So a rare grey import would be the only possibility.

[steveromagnino]

I know of that Scirocco; it's one of a few around that price and spec; VW did a dealer sale of ex demo cars last year so a few of those plus this one (which is a legit import) are floating around (there are around 200 of them in Thailand legit ones plus probably another few grey market ones); basically 1.9m will get you a 8 - 25,000km legit import one with in many cases bigger rims and ABT body kit and still with VW service running until 75/3years...the Rs and the modified grey market ones I personally wouldn't touch as they may have service issues.

If I was in Phuket that would be a great car; logistically and service wise it's harder to do that one than a local one when they are the same price. But its one 'under consideration'.

Warpspeed thank you, yes I can confirm ABT are part of Thai Yarnyon; dealer in Ramintra; ABT, VW Laksi, Barcelona motors, VW Yarnyon cars are all legit.

I will check out that Citroen; nice brand but would worry for the same reason as the VW but times 100x on the service, parts, etc. That's a bargain price though vs. a Mini!

On the mini front, Vanillasky we are in a similar position I think with similar taste; have you looked at one? I had a 12 hour window to purchase an auto cooper s 8,000km 2010 model R56 for 1.75m baht but rang about 30 minutes too late; there can be some cheap ones going; however again, if you want to blat around, then a manual is a better option in a mini, which means going for the R53 2004 - 2006 (with just 10 R56 manuals sold from Millenium from 2007) unless you want to front up for a limited edition JCW (which go for around 2m baht+). Minis hold their value like a rock holds its ability to draw blood (when you throw it at someone's face) plus especially the manuals tend to be low mileage cars.

VW may have another group of demo cars including the Golf coming up; they are updating me on a weekly basis; probably will be in a month or so....will let you know but pretty much it's a few km on the clock 1 year old and prices around 1.95m baht. Not so bad I think.

[VanillaSky123]

I know of that Scirocco; it's one of a few around that price and spec; VW did a dealer sale of ex demo cars last year so a few of those plus this one (which is a legit import) are floating around (there are around 200 of them in Thailand legit ones plus probably another few grey market ones); basically 1.9m will get you a 8 - 25,000km legit import one with in many cases bigger rims and ABT body kit and still with VW service running until 75/3years...the Rs and the modified grey market ones I personally wouldn't touch as they may have service issues.

If I was in Phuket that would be a great car; logistically and service wise it's harder to do that one than a local one when they are the same price. But its one 'under consideration'.

Warpspeed thank you, yes I can confirm ABT are part of Thai Yarnyon; dealer in Ramintra; ABT, VW Laksi, Barcelona motors, VW Yarnyon cars are all legit.

I will check out that Citroen; nice brand but would worry for the same reason as the VW but times 100x on the service, parts, etc. That's a bargain price though vs. a Mini!

On the mini front, Vanillasky we are in a similar position I think with similar taste; have you looked at one? I had a 12 hour window to purchase an auto cooper s 8,000km 2010 model R56 for 1.75m baht but rang about 30 minutes too late; there can be some cheap ones going; however again, if you want to blat around, then a manual is a better option in a mini, which means going for the R53 2004 - 2006 (with just 10 R56 manuals sold from Millenium from 2007) unless you want to front up for a limited edition JCW (which go for around 2m baht+). Minis hold their value like a rock holds its ability to draw blood (when you throw it at someone's face) plus especially the manuals tend to be low mileage cars.

VW may have another group of demo cars including the Golf coming up; they are updating me on a weekly basis; probably will be in a month or so....will let you know but pretty much it's a few km on the clock 1 year old and prices around 1.95m baht. Not so bad I think.

Great, yes please keep me posted on that...would be interesting, although servicing the VW here in Phuket is a bit of an issue i suppose? So would be the Citroen, although they have a Yontrakit here servicing Citroen, etc, but honestly does not look like a place i would want to service my car....

About Minis: surprise I actually own one, a MINI Cooper GP, the special edition model, build end 2006, bought last year Feb with 14,000 miiles on it. Had to do quite a bit of work on suspension and replace the supercharger, but now it is perfect and it is my weekend toy. It is manual, sure fun, but also not the easiest every day strolling around town car, heavy clutch, hard to find balance on hill, etc. It is a sport car...but once on a free road, the exhaust bubbles, it is fun.

One thing you must understand with MINI...I am having a bit of a hard time with it....but getting better, that they do have their issues: rattles here and there....and if you are sensitive to those little noises than MINI is not the Best choice.

Bought mine for 2.15 and spend another 0.15m on it in upgrading incl. good soundsystem.

I am thinking of selling it together with my Ford Focus TDCI to have only one car, for every day...a good one, like a new AUDI TTS or so, as it is really hard to find something under 2m which we both want, i guess must look at 3m plus. By the way, the TDCI is probably the most powerful and fun car you can find at less than 2m, except maybe the Citroen (new i mean).

Little chip tuning and with the manual it does fly and has great torque.

So, let's keep us both updated on where we end up with....cheers,

[steveromagnino]

That gp will be worth something one day; true collectible car and a beauty! I am waiting for vw to confirm what they can do on a vw golf gti; abt will retune it up to 260hp giving it the sort of grunt u get in ur gp; they can't do a sharp deal on a scirocco and besidesthe golf is much the same with a higher spec. I can get the low km manual r53 mini for 1.2 but admittedlyis older but drives well and has a backseat (of sorts) and didn't seem to have masses of rattles but no doubt will develop them. So now its down to 2 horses and simply a matter or price. Is ur gp a millenium car or grey mkt? Curious where u get them serviced..btw vw claim they are opening a dealership in phuket so well maybe that helps.

[VanillaSky123]

That gp will be worth something one day; true collectible car and a beauty! I am waiting for vw to confirm what they can do on a vw golf gti; abt will retune it up to 260hp giving it the sort of grunt u get in ur gp; they can't do a sharp deal on a scirocco and besidesthe golf is much the same with a higher spec. I can get the low km manual r53 mini for 1.2 but admittedlyis older but drives well and has a backseat (of sorts) and didn't seem to have masses of rattles but no doubt will develop them. So now its down to 2 horses and simply a matter or price. Is ur gp a millenium car or grey mkt? Curious where u get them serviced..btw vw claim they are opening a dealership in phuket so well maybe that helps.

Last year I got all done at BMW dealer, but than nearer to November they refused...company policy, etc., so got some small things done in a local shop, which caters for many BMW, Benz once out of BSI.

Went to Bangkok over the weekend and looked at: GOLF GTI and Scirocco - ok, but just not really it design wise, sure great drives though. Skoda - the Superb is huge....sure a great car, but than again, I am mostly alone or on short drives with family, so all this space is vasted....good looking interior.

They had something fun...the Skoda Fabia RS: it is a Polo GTI in disguise...great little engine, easily tuned to 200 (standard is 180). Get 5 years BSI from Skoda and costs 1.49 m new. BUT...and it is a big BUT...the design!

Went to see the DS3 - too small, the DS4 is nicely designed but no great engine...

so kind of leaves me with a Volvo S60 T4....as i really like it in and out design wise....and just hope that soon there is a bit of tune available to give it a few extra HPs.....

my 2 cents...cheers

[steveromagnino]

Try a golf with abt 260hp....its not bad :-)

[steveromagnino]

Golf is being replaced next year but probably won't reach Thailand until end of 2013 or early 2014; the 2010 Thai Yarnyon legit mark VI GTI or Scirocco can be purchased for around 1.75-1.85m baht with around 10-28,000km on them (sold new 2.65m approx).

ABT or APR can both get easily 260HP out of them.

So after all this, have discussed with my boss and seems like a 4 door is the preferred option (ideally BMW, Benz, Audi, Lexus but Golf is quite ok for a company subsidised vehicle) so seems like the Golf will be the one and do a few modifications :_).

Volvo S60 really is a nice car and doesn't drive badly at all....if Volvo offered me the sort of deal that VW dealers offered they would be able to sell me a car.

[VanillaSky123]

....still confused, but getting there. Hope some help from some of you will clear my mind. (or mess it up more....).

It is now a 3 horse race:

On last place now: Volvo S60 T4, priced at 1.89M, need to invest for nicer alloys and rear difuser, etc about another 0.2-0.3 m, so full 2.1-2.2m

Good: nice design in and out, decent drive and handling, good kit for price, great BSI 5years.

Bad: wish it has more power 0-100 in 9secs is same as my Ford TDCI, Resale value most probably not good

On 2nd place: Volvo S80 Sport I, priced at 2.549M (no interest for 4 years), all incl., nothing to do.

Good: all incl. package, good power, nice design. Great BSI.

Bad: a bit older model (still like it though), a bit too big, not as agile handling (although i can't really comment, only test drove the regular S80 - so it's a bit of cat in the bag buy if. Resale value not good.

On 1st place: Benz C200 CGI 7 G-tronic, priced at 2.149, looking at power upgrade and some style tuning from BRABUS at probably 0.3-0.4m Baht, so roughly 2.5m finished (have yet to receive any email from BRBAUS Thailand that power upgrade, etc is available). Anybody has any clue if the engine code is B20 or B20S (as it makes a difference for the power upgrade).

Good:brand and therefore resale value, most rounded and agile drive, good engine (specially with power upgrade)

Bad: design in standard is rather bland (need to put some money in the styling, specially rear). not much kit in standard version - but i personally don't care too much, if i have to adjust my seat manually or electric. warranty not as good as Volvo.

so, here we go....probably Best is to wait the Motor Show....to give me even more grief!

any comment or thought about those, especially on the S80 Sport and C200 CGI are most welcome. anybody has done a power upgrade on the C200 CGI?

[steveromagnino]

Seems like the logical and most financially sensible choice. C200 is around for about 2 years before replacement so in time for the mark vii golf or new 3 series bmw.non folding rear seats for both bmw and benz didn't work for me and I don't follow why but for u maybe a non issue.they dont go badly at all for 2.15m is a decent price that's for sure!

[VanillaSky123]

i am Trying to be too logical....and car buying just with brain is just not working for me....so still not convinced that i have pinned it down correctly.

Kinda still looking at something more fun to drive than a C200 CGI or S60 T4...so coming back to look at a GTI is probably not such a stupid idea or if to save some cost a Skoda Fabia RS which is about the same power as a stock GTI and invest a little in design upgrades....

http://www.dad-thailand.com/skoda-thailand/product-fabiars-spec.html this is the standard version, it comes in...well...mean green! Not so sure how I (41 years) fit in this design wise...lol

with some design upgrades it go somewhere there (less the alloys): http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/226607-fabia-vrs-bt-edition-cz/

Steve you had some worries about grey market GTI...why, there are so many dealers now which have service possibilities?

[steveromagnino]

You don't need to buy a grey mkt gti; if u pm me I know of 2 thai yarnyon gtis that are around 1.8-1.85m 20-30,000km 2010s. I reckon if u push hard u may get to 1.75m. They are an awesome car especially with a new abt or apr chip. Scirocco is similar price too. U just need to make aggressive offers; in the end I've ended up fingers crossed with a mint cooper s, but I loved the golf just as much, just that the mini being older is a lot cheaper.