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[Blackandwhite]

When I was drinking on a work night I would drink two bottles of red or 8 large cans of strong beer or cider more at weekends and I did only used to drink a glass of wine with my meal. The problem can get worse quickly, If your here reading this post as you are worried about someone or are worried about your own dependency there is every chance there is an issue

[Johnniey]

As for the dependency aspect, there is no fixed amount that causes dependency, it is the inability to do without that defines it.

If you look at my earlier post you'll find the exact criteria for dependency and also abuse.

It is more than just the inability to do without.

Quite simply if you don't get withdrawal symptoms when you stop then you are not an alcoholic but possibly am alcohol abuser and should look at the reasons why you drink. AA can help here but if being totally honest you can't.introduce yourself as an alcoholic. They will welcome you at open meetings.

Edited April 15, 2013 by Johnniey

[SteveReilly]

Try drinking 1 glass half-way for a few days. If you cannot stop half-way the, most likely you have problems. As,Langsuan pointed out, if you think you have a problem then most likely you have a problem.

[Johnniey]

Try drinking 1 glass half-way for a few days. If you cannot stop half-way the, most likely you have problems. As,Langsuan pointed out, if you think you have a problem then most likely you have a problem.

Why torture yourself and waste money. Drink as many bottles a day as you can for a week and stop. If you suffer DTs, shakes, paranoia etc. then you know for sure you cannot drink normally.

[StreetCowboy]

Try drinking 1 glass half-way for a few days. If you cannot stop half-way the, most likely you have problems. As,Langsuan pointed out, if you think you have a problem then most likely you have a problem.

Why torture yourself and waste money. Drink as many bottles a day as you can for a week and stop. If you suffer DTs, shakes, paranoia etc. then you know for sure you cannot drink normally.

He'll waste less money drinking half a glass a day for a week than drining as much as he wants to for a night...

If he can go out, drink as much as he wants to, and go home, fine. But if the amount he wants to drink is "one more" then he's got a problem; well, a challenge, anyway...

SC

[Johnniey]

Try drinking 1 glass half-way for a few days. If you cannot stop half-way the, most likely you have problems. As,Langsuan pointed out, if you think you have a problem then most likely you have a problem.

Why torture yourself and waste money. Drink as many bottles a day as you can for a week and stop. If you suffer DTs, shakes, paranoia etc. then you know for sure you cannot drink normally.

He'll waste less money drinking half a glass a day for a week than drining as much as he wants to for a night...

If he can go out, drink as much as he wants to, and go home, fine. But if the amount he wants to drink is "one more" then he's got a problem; well, a challenge, anyway...

SC

The OP asks if the wine can cause Alcoholism/dependency. This is hardly a problem or challenge but simply a disease.

Of course the simple answer is yes it CAN.

Some people can drink excess every day for years then quit easily.

Why is this?

Dependency is a 3 faceted disease , physical,emotional, spiritual.

Physical:-

Many alcoholics at one time early in their drinking could ´control´ it a little. As time progresses things got worse.

Somewhere along the line, the physiology of the body changes.

In non dependents the physiological whatever does not change.

Once doctors identify this, it will be easy to identify alcoholics, or potential alcoholics.

[wineman]

I've never kept a record of how much red wine (or any other colour for that matter) that I've consumed. I drink it when I'm happy and when I'm sad. Sometimes I drink it when I'm alone. When I have company I consider it a must. I trifle with it if I'm not hungry and drink it when I am. Otherwise I never touch it - -- unless I'm thirsty.

With respect to Madame Lily Bollinger.

[tominbkk]

We like to drink red, 3-4 glases over an evening of 4-5 hours.

Alcohol 10-12%. With a given body weight of 50kg, height, 165, age 40, can that already cause depencency?

Are you drinking every night?

Do you need to drink every night?

These two questions will give you more insight into whether you have a dependency on alcohol or some alcoholism.

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[Neeranam]

Try drinking 1 glass half-way for a few days. If you cannot stop half-way the, most likely you have problems. As,Langsuan pointed out, if you think you have a problem then most likely you have a problem.

Why torture yourself and waste money. Drink as many bottles a day as you can for a week and stop. If you suffer DTs, shakes, paranoia etc. then you know for sure you cannot drink normally.

He'll waste less money drinking half a glass a day for a week than drining as much as he wants to for a night...

If he can go out, drink as much as he wants to, and go home, fine. But if the amount he wants to drink is "one more" then he's got a problem; well, a challenge, anyway...

SC

The OP asks if the wine can cause Alcoholism/dependency. This is hardly a problem or challenge but simply a disease.

Of course the simple answer is yes it CAN.

Some people can drink excess every day for years then quit easily.

Why is this?

Dependency is a 3 faceted disease , physical,emotional, spiritual.

Physical:-

Many alcoholics at one time early in their drinking could ´control´ it a little. As time progresses things got worse.

Somewhere along the line, the physiology of the body changes.

In non dependents the physiological whatever does not change.

Once doctors identify this, it will be easy to identify alcoholics, or potential alcoholics.

I know what you mean but what exactly is your definition of a emotional/spiritual disease?

[wineman]

Have you a copy of the scientific study you mentioned?

If you drink good quality wine you should not have a problem. Unfortunately such wine is very expensive in Thailand. Cheap wine may not make you an alchoholic but can damage you health in the long run ,if drunk in the quantities you quote

There should be no problem with "cheap red wine" as it contains nothing different to the expensive red wine as a rule. I say, as a rule, because sulphur dioxide is used in all wines as a preservative, antioxidant and steriliser, and it is possible that cheaper producers may well not monitor quite how much is used, or use too much to cover a fault in the wine. Some folk may to be sensitive to this chemical.

I once met an 80 yr old Frenchman working in a vineyard in Burgundy who looked great and still worked a full day despite having drunk at least a litre of red wine per day since his late teens. Also many farm and vineyard workers of that time would regularly consume a bottle or more working the land, although it had an alcohol content of around 9% and was certainly not the highest quality wine!!

Some good comments above as regards how much to drink..........and a scientific study has shown that many Asian folk lack a gene to process alcohol so it can make them feel very unwell.

[xylophone]

Have you a copy of the scientific study you mentioned?

If you drink good quality wine you should not have a problem. Unfortunately such wine is very expensive in Thailand. Cheap wine may not make you an alchoholic but can damage you health in the long run ,if drunk in the quantities you quote

There should be no problem with "cheap red wine" as it contains nothing different to the expensive red wine as a rule. I say, as a rule, because sulphur dioxide is used in all wines as a preservative, antioxidant and steriliser, and it is possible that cheaper producers may well not monitor quite how much is used, or use too much to cover a fault in the wine. Some folk may to be sensitive to this chemical.

I once met an 80 yr old Frenchman working in a vineyard in Burgundy who looked great and still worked a full day despite having drunk at least a litre of red wine per day since his late teens. Also many farm and vineyard workers of that time would regularly consume a bottle or more working the land, although it had an alcohol content of around 9% and was certainly not the highest quality wine!!

Some good comments above as regards how much to drink..........and a scientific study has shown that many Asian folk lack a gene to process alcohol so it can make them feel very unwell.

Much info on this on the net............can google it?

[luk AJ]

I agree with most previous messages, if you need a few glasses daily you already are in the danger zone. Checking for reactions from others points already in a certain direction. I understand your situation very much, i was years in denial and for me there was unfortunately only one solution and that was a complete ban on alcohol. I envy my colleagues and friends who can have a good night out on alcohol and quit for the rest of the week. I was born without the dimmer just on/off ...

[tominbkk]

If you are thinking or worrying about your drinking then it has become an issue. Try stopping for a few weeks, and then moderating to a couple glasses a week after that. If moderation is not possible, then maybe consider stopping completely.

[atyclb]

If you drink good quality wine you should not have a problem. Unfortunately such wine is very expensive in Thailand. Cheap wine may not make you an alchoholic but can damage you health in the long run ,if drunk in the quantities you quote

Applying your reasoning would mean wealthy people that drink premium wine and/ or spirits cannot be alcoholic.

[atyclb]

Try drinking 1 glass half-way for a few days. If you cannot stop half-way the, most likely you have problems. As,Langsuan pointed out, if you think you have a problem then most likely you have a problem.

Why torture yourself and waste money. Drink as many bottles a day as you can for a week and stop. If you suffer DTs, shakes, paranoia etc. then you know for sure you cannot drink normally.

If a non-alcoholic were to do as you suggest even he/she could suffer symptoms as above since alcohol is toxic to both alcoholics and non-alcoholics.

Drinking as many bottles as you can per day for one week is NOT "drinking normally"

[atyclb]

"We like to drink red, 3-4 glases over an evening of 4-5 hours.
Alcohol 10-12%. With a given body weight of 50kg, height, 165, age 40, can that already cause depencency?"

Probably yes but not for everybody. There are many alcohol dependance assessment tools you can google. some are questionnaires you can do yourself.

The fact that you are concerned about is a good sign since a huge problem with chemical addiction is denial. You not only seem devoid of it you have actual awareness and concern.

[Blackandwhite]

Guys - I stopped last year for 9 months very happy not a drop - made the mistake of thinking I could handle having a few again - the few became a lot

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[lalitv74]

You know that is hard to answer. It is a matter of perspective I presume. A whole bottle could derail you for days. A couple of glass might not be evident after a day or two or any at all. I believe if you drink plenty of water it will help get rid of it quicker.

For me I wouldn't drink more than small glasses of wine or about 8 ounces. I don't want the added calories and sugars. I would at least be sure it a dark red wine.

[baneko]

I'm on 10 big Leo's a day. At weekends sometimes more. I am not overweight. I have been consuming alchohol like this since around 16-17 yrs old.

Fortunately I work offshore on a 28/28 rota and am unable to drink when working. This gives my body a break.

Take a couple of days off from time to time and you'll be fine.

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[Neeranam]

I'm on 10 big Leo's a day. At weekends sometimes more. I am not overweight. I have been consuming alchohol like this since around 16-17 yrs old.

Fortunately I work offshore on a 28/28 rota and am unable to drink when working. This gives my body a break.

Take a couple of days off from time to time and you'll be fine.

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I used to deny that I had a problem as I quit when working offshore. Similarly in jail or meditation retreats. The fact was that the first thing I did when 'free' was drink. Drinking was my life and it wasted 20 years of my life.

[baneko]

I'm on 10 big Leo's a day. At weekends sometimes more. I am not overweight. I have been consuming alchohol like this since around 16-17 yrs old.

Fortunately I work offshore on a 28/28 rota and am unable to drink when working. This gives my body a break.

Take a couple of days off from time to time and you'll be fine.

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I used to deny that I had a problem as I quit when working offshore. Similarly in jail or meditation retreats. The fact was that the first thing I did when 'free' was drink. Drinking was my life and it wasted 20 years of my life.

But I like drinking! I enjoy meeting up with friends and having some beer. I never get badly drunk. I function the next day. I dont get up and immediately drink. I have a break when offshore. Why should I stop one of my pleasures?

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[Neeranam]

I'm on 10 big Leo's a day. At weekends sometimes more. I am not overweight. I have been consuming alchohol like this since around 16-17 yrs old.

Fortunately I work offshore on a 28/28 rota and am unable to drink when working. This gives my body a break.

Take a couple of days off from time to time and you'll be fine.

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I used to deny that I had a problem as I quit when working offshore. Similarly in jail or meditation retreats. The fact was that the first thing I did when 'free' was drink. Drinking was my life and it wasted 20 years of my life.

But I like drinking! I enjoy meeting up with friends and having some beer. I never get badly drunk. I function the next day. I dont get up and immediately drink. I have a break when offshore. Why should I stop one of my pleasures?

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No reason to stop mate. I stopped as I couldn't afford to go on like I was.

If you can drink without consequences, I'm jealous. If I weren't an alcoholic, I'd drink every day too.

Edited March 26, 2014 by Neeranam

[Greg Nixon]

Can you go two months without a drink? If you find you cannot be without an alcoholic drink then you are already an alcoholic. I have drank to excess in my past - likely a binge drinker. I never liked drinking because it gave me terrible hangovers and a depressed state of mind the next day. I was introduced by others to alcohol. I thought it was cool. I thought it would get me into the in crowd.

My parents never drank to excess. i saw my Dad inebriated maybe 3 times in my life. My mother never drank period. She would take a few sips, make a terrible face and put the drink aside. Sometimes a bottle of alcohol would last for years in their home.

My wife's family were the opposite. Alcohol has devastated that family. My wife was not a big drinker but the last 15 years she began to drink to excess. Shopping to excess and drinking 2 litters of wine/day. After a number of years I began to realise what was happening. I would have one or two glasses of wine while she finished off the 2 bottles. She also bought to excess and I remembered a friend of her family who would come inebriated to her parents home. She always had a bag with her and really didn't care what was in it. She would toss it in a corner. 50 scarves, dozens of pairs of shoes hardly used, closets full of clothes are the signs of another addiction. I confess that I was partially to blame because I would turn over a double pay cheque to my wife for over 30 years. She made a triple paycheque for the last 12 years. I cut off the money because she really didn't need it but that seemed to make matters worse. She amassed credit card debt about 3 times an average families income but I was unaware. I would often say , "Can we afford this ? " The answer was invariably the same, "Don't worry we can afford it. "

I lived with my wife only 3 years in 10 for the last years of my marriage. We both had separate career paths. I became a philanderer in China and eventually came to Thailand. i have had twelve to 14 beers ( never more than two at any one time) in 30 months. Sometimes I drink a partial beer and leave the rest. I am married here and have been faithful to date. I have to confess I have been tempted by aggressive Thai women but I realise that monogamy is the way to keep out of " As the Stomach Turns " scenarios.

I tell you all of this to give you a guide to your actions. I am not better than anyone. I am different than some. If your actions are causing you problems - CHANGE. I have and believe me my life is the better for it. i take pleasure in my home. i take pleasure in my wife's daughter and her friends. I enjoy my wife's company. I take pleasure in learning about the Thai culture and learning the Thai culture. Life is a big adventure and sobriety is a gift.

[big carl]

I'm on 10 big Leo's a day. At weekends sometimes more. I am not overweight. I have been consuming alchohol like this since around 16-17 yrs old.

Fortunately I work offshore on a 28/28 rota and am unable to drink when working. This gives my body a break.

Take a couple of days off from time to time and you'll be fine.

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I used to deny that I had a problem as I quit when working offshore. Similarly in jail or meditation retreats. The fact was that the first thing I did when 'free' was drink. Drinking was my life and it wasted 20 years of my life.

But I like drinking! I enjoy meeting up with friends and having some beer. I never get badly drunk. I function the next day. I dont get up and immediately drink. I have a break when offshore. Why should I stop one of my pleasures?

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I agree with you why should you stop one of your pleasures. Also what are you doing on this forum. The forum is about is alcohol a problem to you.

Early on I could tell the same story as you. If there was a party and there was just about every night it was mandatory to invite me and my brother. We were the life of the party it was wonderful times. But some thing happened over the years even my brother didn't want me there. That was after he had gotten out of 9 years of prison Then my life entered into a living hell phase and I could no longer tell your story in the present tense form. It was all past tense no matter how hard I tried.

The day came when I broke down and admitted to myself that I had to stop I could not go on. But what to do? That very night for the second time in ten years my mother recommended AA. She said why don't you talk to her sister my aunt. I didn't even know the lady drank. She took me to my first meeting and I haven't had to look back. I have had my ups and downs the same as every one but I managed to handle them sober.

People will tell you AA doesn't work. They may be right. We have what we call are Big Book and in it you will read in one of the forwards that we do not claim to have the answer for every one. It had the word God in it but it told me as I understood him no other explanation. It was up to me. It was suggested that I use Good Orderly Direction hard to fight that. I no longer have a problem with God. I have an explanation that is probably wrong but it works's for me.

It took me two years to use the word God. I was told that if the word God will scare them out no big deal alcohol will scare them back. Or perhaps one of the other methods works for them. Or they might have died. I knew religion wiould not work for me I had already tried that. But AA did.

[Aussieroaming]

So if OP drinks 4 glasses of wine a night ( basically a bottle) he is technically dependent on alcohol? So is that a physical dependency or is it a "habit". I prefer the term habit, because habits are learned behaviour so can be changed.

If the OP and his partner drink wine every night because that's their habit, then simply alter the habit. I think if you are asking the question then you recognise that a change may be due.

But I admire anyone who can recognise when they have an issue and can deal with it.

[big carl]

I'm on 10 big Leo's a day. At weekends sometimes more. I am not overweight. I have been consuming alchohol like this since around 16-17 yrs old.

Fortunately I work offshore on a 28/28 rota and am unable to drink when working. This gives my body a break.

Take a couple of days off from time to time and you'll be fine.

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I used to deny that I had a problem as I quit when working offshore. Similarly in jail or meditation retreats. The fact was that the first thing I did when 'free' was drink. Drinking was my life and it wasted 20 years of my life.

But I like drinking! I enjoy meeting up with friends and having some beer. I never get badly drunk. I function the next day. I dont get up and immediately drink. I have a break when offshore. Why should I stop one of my pleasures?

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Darned if I know.Why are you on this Forum?

Answer that and you will have your answer.

[JaswinderSingh]

Everything good if used in modirate quantity.

[impulse]

Everything good if used in modirate quantity.

Peanuts and shellfish, even in small quantities can kill someone who's allergic.

Same with alcohol and an alcoholic. Because after that first one, there's no way to know when the alcoholic will stop drinking this time.

No first drink, no problems.

If that concept doesn't make sense, perhaps it's best not to post advice on a forum for people who drink too much, and (presumably) want help.

Got questions? We love to hear them. Have experiences to share? Love to hear them. Advice? Not so much.

[Thai at Heart]

That depends entirely on you and your personality and tolerance for booze.

Some people can flatten a bottle of wine a day for 20 years, get up, go to work, function perfectly normally, and then decide not to have a bottle that night.

Others not. If its effecting your health, your ability to function, your relations with others or your ability to not have a drink, then you might consider to stop.

[Henrico]

Just enjoy after all it is only grape juice that has gone off a bit. A natural product that was even enjoyed by Jesus with a bit of fish and bread. Worlds full of people who tell you don't. I say why not!

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