Pakistani Taliban leader possibly killed in U.S. drone strike

[Scott]

A troll post has been removed.

[BOS2BKK]

So you both have no problem with carpet bombing and flying even "likes" this post? As long as we're getting extreme, why not just nuke them? We'd get rid of the terrorists and piss off the military-industrial complex at the same time.

Why not? I don't know. Maybe there are issues with ground water, or weather patterns. Nuclear weapons, in the absence of total war, have alot of considerations. Maybe all our Tomohawks were going to expire? I work at the operations level, not the strategic planning level. Ethically I have no problem wiping this rag tag collection of illiterates off the earth. They seem to have no problem blowing us up at any opportunity.

Screw 'em, and everyone that looks or talks like 'em...beleive me, that is what they think of you. You demonize me, and defend what you see as the weak and oppressed, but they don't want your defese. You are just as much a demon as I am. They will cut your head off, alot more readily than engage you in an honest debate.

[Wallaby]

So you both have no problem with carpet bombing and flying even "likes" this post? As long as we're getting extreme, why not just nuke them? We'd get rid of the terrorists and piss off the military-industrial complex at the same time.

Why not? I don't know. Maybe there are issues with ground water, or weather patterns. Nuclear weapons, in the absence of total war, have alot of considerations. Maybe all our Tomohawks were going to expire? I work at the operations level, not the strategic planning level. Ethically I have no problem wiping this rag tag collection of illiterates off the earth. They seem to have no problem blowing us up at any opportunity.

Screw 'em, and everyone that looks or talks like 'em...beleive me, that is what they think of you. You demonize me, and defend what you see as the weak and oppressed, but they don't want your defese. You are just as much a demon as I am. They will cut your head off, alot more readily than engage you in an honest debate.

Seem extremists have infiltrated tv.

[Scott]

I think we can tone the rhetoric down a little.

[bangkaew]

So you both have no problem with carpet bombing and flying even "likes" this post? As long as we're getting extreme, why not just nuke them? We'd get rid of the terrorists and piss off the military-industrial complex at the same time.

Why not? I don't know. Maybe there are issues with ground water, or weather patterns. Nuclear weapons, in the absence of total war, have alot of considerations. Maybe all our Tomohawks were going to expire? I work at the operations level, not the strategic planning level. Ethically I have no problem wiping this rag tag collection of illiterates off the earth. They seem to have no problem blowing us up at any opportunity.

Screw 'em, and everyone that looks or talks like 'em...beleive me, that is what they think of you. You demonize me, and defend what you see as the weak and oppressed, but they don't want your defese. You are just as much a demon as I am. They will cut your head off, alot more readily than engage you in an honest debate.

IF that is true, have you ever thought to think why?

[Naam]

I work at the operations level, not the strategic planning level.

[Steely Dan]

So you both have no problem with carpet bombing and flying even "likes" this post? As long as we're getting extreme, why not just nuke them? We'd get rid of the terrorists and piss off the military-industrial complex at the same time.

Why not? I don't know. Maybe there are issues with ground water, or weather patterns. Nuclear weapons, in the absence of total war, have alot of considerations. Maybe all our Tomohawks were going to expire? I work at the operations level, not the strategic planning level. Ethically I have no problem wiping this rag tag collection of illiterates off the earth. They seem to have no problem blowing us up at any opportunity.

Screw 'em, and everyone that looks or talks like 'em...beleive me, that is what they think of you. You demonize me, and defend what you see as the weak and oppressed, but they don't want your defese. You are just as much a demon as I am. They will cut your head off, alot more readily than engage you in an honest debate.

IF that is true, have you ever thought to think why?

Religion, no need for any external stimulus at all.

[Scott]

One off-topic post deleted.

Please stay on-topic and keep it civil.

And now another deleted. Discuss the topic, not the poster.

[Exsexyman]

I read recently that in armed conflict a quite common ratio of belligerents killed relative to civilians was 1 to 10, now great play is made by some of words such as 'suspected'. However when the bearded warriors routinely hide behind the dresses of their womenfolk or use children as walking explosive devices then 'suspected' is about as good as you are likely to get, though for some reason I can't quite fathom the cries of indignation over the use of suicide bombers or human shields never seems to reach the pitch that it does with drones, which as oppose to carpet bombing the place is almost certain to reduce the ratio of civilian deaths versus armed militants.

The U.S. bashers are going to object to any tactic that effectively kills Islamic terrorists and might eventually drive them out of business.

To listen to you, anybody would think that the only form of terrorism in the world is Islamic terrorism. Terrorism comes in many forms. Since the end of World War 2, The US has dropped bombs on the people of more than Thirty countries with varying numbers of casualties, probably runs into Millions. No doubt in your blinkered view of world foreign affairs the definition of a terrorist is ' Somebody who has a bomb, but no air force!

[JUDAS]

So you both have no problem with carpet bombing and flying even "likes" this post? As long as we're getting extreme, why not just nuke them? We'd get rid of the terrorists and piss off the military-industrial complex at the same time.

Why not? I don't know. Maybe there are issues with ground water, or weather patterns. Nuclear weapons, in the absence of total war, have alot of considerations. Maybe all our Tomohawks were going to expire? I work at the operations level, not the strategic planning level. Ethically I have no problem wiping this rag tag collection of illiterates off the earth. They seem to have no problem blowing us up at any opportunity.

Screw 'em, and everyone that looks or talks like 'em...beleive me, that is what they think of you. You demonize me, and defend what you see as the weak and oppressed, but they don't want your defese. You are just as much a demon as I am. They will cut your head off, alot more readily than engage you in an honest debate.

I don't know which extreme view concerns me more.

[koheesti]

Is there a problem with that? That's a serious question. Do you believe that unless each side has a relatively equal number of unintended casualties then somehow war isn't fair?

Yes unless of course you agree with such?

I see you do & that is your prerogative

OK, then, what is your best estimate of innocent people (collateral damage) killed? 100? 1000? 10000?

People on the ground counting say for every one militant killed 10-15 innocents dead

http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__5004180

So they say.

Anyway, since you believe the innocent deaths must be near equal in order to be fair, let's figure this out...

The people who plotted the attacks on 9/11 (al Qaeda) and their protectors (Taliban) killed in the area of 3,000 on that day (names can be provided and backed up) we must be sure to kill around 3.000 innocents when going after al Qaeda and the Taliban. We'll need better documentation though then simply "they say" followed by a rough estimate. That's no way to keep score.

Since the Taliban likes to kill and blow up innocent people in Pakistan and Afghanistan, part of the mission of the US & Coalition over there should be to kill a like number of innocents. As the drones are helping us achieve this fairness, I would think you would be more supportive of them.

[flying]

[bangkaew]

So you both have no problem with carpet bombing and flying even "likes" this post? As long as we're getting extreme, why not just nuke them? We'd get rid of the terrorists and piss off the military-industrial complex at the same time.

Why not? I don't know. Maybe there are issues with ground water, or weather patterns. Nuclear weapons, in the absence of total war, have alot of considerations. Maybe all our Tomohawks were going to expire? I work at the operations level, not the strategic planning level. Ethically I have no problem wiping this rag tag collection of illiterates off the earth. They seem to have no problem blowing us up at any opportunity.

Screw 'em, and everyone that looks or talks like 'em...beleive me, that is what they think of you. You demonize me, and defend what you see as the weak and oppressed, but they don't want your defese. You are just as much a demon as I am. They will cut your head off, alot more readily than engage you in an honest debate.

IF that is true, have you ever thought to think why?

Religion, no need for any external stimulus at all.

1 billion muslims want every non muslim dead? That is insane. Some of the friendliest people on earth are in Turkey, Iran etc.

[flying]

1 billion muslims want every non muslim dead? That is insane. Some of the friendliest people on earth are in Turkey, Iran etc.

IMO

Folks that make claims such as the one your replying to do not see people....they only see groups that they themselves hate/oppose

[GentlemanJim]

So you both have no problem with carpet bombing and flying even "likes" this post? As long as we're getting extreme, why not just nuke them? We'd get rid of the terrorists and piss off the military-industrial complex at the same time.

Why not? I don't know. Maybe there are issues with ground water, or weather patterns. Nuclear weapons, in the absence of total war, have alot of considerations. Maybe all our Tomohawks were going to expire? I work at the operations level, not the strategic planning level. Ethically I have no problem wiping this rag tag collection of illiterates off the earth. They seem to have no problem blowing us up at any opportunity.

Screw 'em, and everyone that looks or talks like 'em...beleive me, that is what they think of you. You demonize me, and defend what you see as the weak and oppressed, but they don't want your defese. You are just as much a demon as I am. They will cut your head off, alot more readily than engage you in an honest debate.

You need some serious Anger Management Therapy. Do they have that in BKK?

Ethically I have no problem wiping this rag tag collection of illiterates off the earth. They seem to have no problem blowing us up at any opportunity.

Well by definition, you have no ethics! Regards the whole subject of suicide bombers etc it is all a cop out. The only difference in the end result of a drone attack or that of an apache and a suicide bomber is the means and cost of delivery. If the Taliban or Hamas for that matter had F16's and Apache they would not be pi**ing around with suicide bombers.

I am sure I have seen you making similar comments in a you tube vid, I must try and find it.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Scott
video edited out

[Steely Dan]

Religion, no need for any external stimulus at all.

1 billion muslims want every non muslim dead? That is insane. Some of the friendliest people on earth are in Turkey, Iran etc.

It's 1.6 billion and it's still nonsense. Yes there are delightful Muslims all over the world, nobody argued any different. However, the Wahabi Islam taught in madrassas and mosques around Pakistan is pretty totalitarian and does regard any non Muslim, not to mention Muslims of other sects as second class citizens, take a look at the treatment of Christians in Pakistan for example. This has been the same for centuries and certainly long before the founding fathers of the U.S were even born. Even today if you look at attitude surveys of Pakistani Muslims resident in the UK or UK citizens and you will be shocked at their extreme views on a variety of issues.

To use the insult all argument is being disingenuous and serves only to stifle any debate into what is a real problem. The voices of the good/moderate/secular don't get heard for similar reasons the Mafia aren't openly criticized in Sicily.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Steely Dan

[Steely Dan]

1 billion muslims want every non muslim dead? That is insane. Some of the friendliest people on earth are in Turkey, Iran etc.

IMO

Folks that make claims such as the one your replying to do not see people....they only see groups that they themselves hate/oppose

Typical ad hominim attack from the usual suspects. Remove the scales from your eyes, cause is not the one way street you make out.

[koheesti]

The only difference in the end result of a drone attack or that of an apache and a suicide bomber is the means and cost of delivery. If the Taliban or Hamas for that matter had F16's and Apache they would not be pi**ing around with suicide bombers.

Anyone who can't see the difference between drone strikes and suicide bombers is beyond help. Sorry, EVERYONE knows (some just choose to forget or ignore) that the suicide bomber intentionally targets innocent civilians and would kill more if they could. If some day drones are used to launch missiles indiscriminately into crowded market places, then you may have a point. The only suicide-anything drones are similar to are WWII Kamikaze pilots.

As for the Taliban or Hamas having advanced fighter jets or helicopters, they don't have enough intelligence or skill to fly them into battle. It's not like flying a passenger jet into a building.

[flying]

Typical ad hominim attack from the usual suspects. Remove the scales from your eyes, cause is not the one way street you make out.

It as usual is your choice to base your outlook on the lowest common denominator

If you want to pigeonhole a whole race/religion/country because of your limited outlook that is your choice

[bangkaew]

1 billion muslims want every non muslim dead? That is insane. Some of the friendliest people on earth are in Turkey, Iran etc.

IMO

Folks that make claims such as the one your replying to do not see people....they only see groups that they themselves hate/oppose

Typical ad hominim attack from the usual suspects. Remove the scales from your eyes, cause is not the one way street you make out.

interesting that they use the other side's propaganda as their propaganda! Bottom line is that 99%of people on earth want to live in harmony and the 1% cause all the conflict. Luckily people everywhere are waking up to that.

[bangkaew]

The only difference in the end result of a drone attack or that of an apache and a suicide bomber is the means and cost of delivery. If the Taliban or Hamas for that matter had F16's and Apache they would not be pi**ing around with suicide bombers.

Anyone who can't see the difference between drone strikes and suicide bombers is beyond help. Sorry, EVERYONE knows (some just choose to forget or ignore) that the suicide bomber intentionally targets innocent civilians and would kill more if they could. If some day drones are used to launch missiles indiscriminately into crowded market places, then you may have a point. The only suicide-anything drones are similar to are WWII Kamikaze pilots.

As for the Taliban or Hamas having advanced fighter jets or helicopters, they don't have enough intelligence or skill to fly them into battle. It's not like flying a passenger jet into a building.

finally you talk sense! Intelligent people do not fight wars. That is probably why the British, Russians and soon the Americans will be defeated in Afghanistan.

and actually it's far harder to fly into the Pentagon building than anything else.

Edited January 26, 2012 by bangkaew

[flying]

This is not new but what I find interesting are the comments....& there are many

Guessing by the names & comments it seems to be a wide range of people

The CIA's unaccountable drone war claims another casualty

Also an interesting site as it has yearly listed events.

http://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/category/projects/drone-data/

[Steely Dan]

Seeing as some posters here are so in favour of the rights of Pakistanis perhaps account should be taken of what the Pakistani government want, or indeed the people of North Waziristan.

http://www.pkhope.co...or-of-pakistan/

The war which we are fighting in the FATA and Swat is our own. It always was. President Musharraf’s decision to engage world community to help Pakistan in eradicating the terrorism from this region was a very visionary and shrewd decision. He sensed at that time that the world alignments have changed and the menace of terrorism is the biggest threat to Pakistan too and to keep Pakistan from becoming Afghanistan or Iraq, it was unavoidable to cooperate with the ISAF forces.

I found another report (In urdu) stating the people of North Waziristan mostly favour of drone attacks as they caused less collateral damage than the Pakistani army did trying to do the same job, currently I'm looking for an English translation.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...s_hussain.shtml

Edited January 26, 2012 by Steely Dan

[Ulysses G.]

Intelligent people do not fight wars.

Tell that to Winston Churchill.

[chuckd]

Let's look at another angle regarding the 1.6 billion Muslims that want to destroy the western world.

The Pew Research Center performed a survey in 2011 in the US asking about support for Islamic extremism. Their published report had this statement...

"A significant minority (21%) of Muslim Americans say there is a great deal (6%) or a fair amount (15%) of support for extremism in the Muslim American community."

So assuming that 6% of the American Muslim community supports Muslim extremism a 'great deal' and, further assuming one could extend this percentage across the board worldwide (perhaps too high in Iceland but a teensy bit low in Pakistan), that means out of a total population of 1.6 billion Muslims, something around 96,000,000 favor or support Islamic Extremism.

A rather sizable army of extremists out to spread the message.

http://www.people-pr...-for-extremism/

[Steely Dan]

More Pakistani commentary, actually it was quite an astute move allowing drones in the first place as they were successful of ridding Pakistan of some of it's most odious terrorists, yet if they felt the heat too much they could always blame the U.S, a win win situation.

http://www.thenews.c...?ID=52000&Cat=9

There have been about 249 drone strikes in different parts of FATA since 2004. Except for three attacks, most of the strikes have targeted and killed terrorists and their facilitators. The strikes have played a major role in the elimination of some of those who were directly or indirectly responsible for the deaths of more than 35,000 innocent Muslim Pakistanis and armed forces personnel. The drones have killed many prominent commanders of Al-Qaeda, which is operating in Pakistan since 2002.

Little wonder the terrorists and their enablers are spitting feathers, perhaps when considering the number of unintentional deaths due to drone action the 35,000 innocent Pakistani Muslims should be considered on the other side of the ledger.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Steely Dan

[bangkaew]

Seeing as some posters here are so in favour of the rights of Pakistanis perhaps account should be taken of what the Pakistani government want, or indeed the people of North Waziristan.

http://www.pkhope.co...or-of-pakistan/

The war which we are fighting in the FATA and Swat is our own. It always was. President Musharraf’s decision to engage world community to help Pakistan in eradicating the terrorism from this region was a very visionary and shrewd decision. He sensed at that time that the world alignments have changed and the menace of terrorism is the biggest threat to Pakistan too and to keep Pakistan from becoming Afghanistan or Iraq, it was unavoidable to cooperate with the ISAF forces.

I found another report (In urdu) stating the people of North Waziristan mostly favour of drone attacks as they caused less collateral damage than the Pakistani army did trying to do the same job, currently I'm looking for an English translation.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...s_hussain.shtml

becoming Iraq? There is far more terrorism now than under Saddam.

Well as long as drone attacks are mostly better than that bastion of accountability -pak army, that is fine!

[bangkaew]

Let's look at another angle regarding the 1.6 billion Muslims that want to destroy the western world.

The Pew Research Center performed a survey in 2011 in the US asking about support for Islamic extremism. Their published report had this statement...

"A significant minority (21%) of Muslim Americans say there is a great deal (6%) or a fair amount (15%) of support for extremism in the Muslim American community."

So assuming that 6% of the American Muslim community supports Muslim extremism a 'great deal' and, further assuming one could extend this percentage across the board worldwide (perhaps too high in Iceland but a teensy bit low in Pakistan), that means out of a total population of 1.6 billion Muslims, something around 96,000,000 favor or support Islamic Extremism.

A rather sizable army of extremists out to spread the message.

http://www.people-pr...-for-extremism/

i would bet that if the west stopped bombing muslims then 99%would want ipads etc, ie westernize. The wars FEED extremism.

[Steely Dan]

i would bet that if the west stopped bombing muslims then 99%would want ipads etc, ie westernize. The wars FEED extremism.

Last I looked the west dropped precisely zero bombs on Nigeria, but the radicals racked up 256 dead bodies in the space of a few hours. The left wing apologists are yet again barking up the wrong tree.

[bangkaew]

i would bet that if the west stopped bombing muslims then 99%would want ipads etc, ie westernize. The wars FEED extremism.

Last I looked the west dropped precisely zero bombs on Nigeria, but the radicals racked up 256 dead bodies in the space of a few hours. The left wing apologists are yet again barking up the wrong tree.

funny, i thought ron paul was right wing. Ghandi was certainly left wing and he was a pacifist right enough.