Earning Income Online

[OlRedEyes]

Dunno if I agree so much on buying an online biz. Pretty tricky one that.

What i can get out of my website, may not be achievable by the buyer, simply coz he may not understand the marketing, for instance. It constantly has to adapt to a fast-changing environment, and can be the difference between success and dismal failure.

I can show him how it works NOW, but if doesn't have the knowledge of let's say PPC for instance, what happens to him when G changes it's PPC ranking algo, and his traffic disappears one bright sunny morn.

Does he just up his bid? Can he establish his optimum ROI balance? Can he get quality traffic somewhere else?

Or his competition changes something. Does he know how to improve his average order size? What impact does the sudden changes at his payment proc have on his conversions? How can he improve those. A website, like any business, is ALWAYS a work in progress.

I could sell you a website that brings in a constant $800/m nett. With a bit of effort it can be doubled or tripled. But if you buy it, and ANYTHING changes, it may become a total loss overnight, if you do not have the skill to respond to the change.

Edited December 26, 2005 by OlRedEyes

[kayo]

Everyone and their mother seems to be a freelance web designer,

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My mother is NOT! a freelance webdesigner.

I'm thinking of moving into that area though.

[johnnyk]

I'm going bolognamare one better.

I can't be bothered Googling.

I can't be bothered buying a website and

I can't be bothered asking any questions of you people.

Just send me the money.

[bolognamare]

Not trying to be nasty, but I would suggest that if you cannot find these answers in a few hours via the Great God Google, you certainly don't posess the expertise to make any money from this.

I would seriously suggest you spend at least a few weeks reading online. It's all there, all the answers, and the questions too.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What a GENIUS!!!

I can find of course everything on Google, but a tested & suggested way is better if helping each other is still a good thing.

It's not necessary to reveal the details of your e-business, BUT you can share some basic line to help someone else to realize his dreams.

If you prefer to smile in front of other people difficults sincerely i don't understand why you trash your time reading and writing posts on this forum.

Thanks for nothing OlRedEyes!

[OlRedEyes]

Not trying to be nasty, but I would suggest that if you cannot find these answers in a few hours via the Great God Google, you certainly don't posess the expertise to make any money from this.

I would seriously suggest you spend at least a few weeks reading online. It's all there, all the answers, and the questions too.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What a GENIUS!!!

I can find of course everything on Google, but a tested & suggested way is better if helping each other is still a good thing.

It's not necessary to reveal the details of your e-business, BUT you can share some basic line to help someone else to realize his dreams.

If you prefer to smile in front of other people difficults sincerely i don't understand why you trash your time reading and writing posts on this forum.

Thanks for nothing OlRedEyes!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for the admiration

Point is, there is no simple answers to be posted. There is a lot to be answered.

Anyways, if you're too ###### lazy to do the legwork yourself, why should you expect others to spoonfeed you? Grow up.

[bolognamare]

Point is, there is no simple answers to be posted. There is a lot to be answered.

Anyways, if you're too ###### lazy to do the legwork yourself, why should you expect others to spoonfeed you? Grow up.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

First problem solved : www.neteller.com (minimum transaction amount : 5$ or Euro) works like paypal but "they don't have gambling restrictions"... the country? Isle of Man (i've told everything, i think).

I'm still looking for the hosting server.... i'll post soon the answer!!!

I start understanding the meaning of your nickname "OlRedEyes" (noboby helped you to realize your dreams, am i wrong?)... am i growing well?

Edited December 27, 2005 by bolognamare

[OlRedEyes]

Point is, there is no simple answers to be posted. There is a lot to be answered.

Anyways, if you're too ###### lazy to do the legwork yourself, why should you expect others to spoonfeed you? Grow up.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

First problem solved : www.neteller.com (minimum transaction amount : 5$ or Euro) works like paypal but "they don't have gambling restrictions"... the country? Isle of Man (i've told everything, i think).

I'm still looking for the hosting server.... i'll post soon the answer!!!

I start understanding the meaning of your nickname "OlRedEyes" (noboby helped you to realize your dreams, am i wrong?)... am i growing well?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry mate. I've learnt the hard way that being too kind and gentle helps nobody.

And no, i'm not a grouchy old man But as I just said in another thread, maybe I should stay away from all serious subjects....

Anyways, I'd be glad to help where I can, within limits. If I can. PM me anytime.

[bolognamare]

First problem solved : www.neteller.com (minimum transaction amount : 5$ or Euro) works like paypal but "they don't have gambling restrictions"... the country? Isle of Man (i've told everything, i think).

I'm still looking for the hosting server.... i'll post soon the answer!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well i have to correct myself, the solution to this 2 problems is REALLY the key to the door of heaven, the maze solution.

I surfed the web for 2 days like a mad but at the end i found something that i want to share with other dreamers like me (hoping in a shared help..):

Unfortunately Neteller wants 1000$ (one time only) to sign up a merchant account and fees are 3.9% for all transfers to my site and 2% for all transfers going back to the clients site, and these are starting off fees.. (so may change without my will in a second time).

I'm evaluating Payweb (i'm waiting an answer).

The main thing to solve to start my online business is operating like a merchant as a private citizen (without a company) and with reasonable fees.

After 6 months/1 year of testing the business and the incomes i can evaluate to protect myself and the business with an offshore company, now i cannot afford it, i have to pay the coder, the hosting server and the first level domain registration (less than 1500 euro i have estimated).

I think that i solved the second problem, the hosting service:

http://www.spirit-international.net/basic.htm

They offer a good price 220 euro/year and the admin wrote me today:

We host many gambling and gaming websites, and online betting is permitted under our hosting terms and conditions.

It's a Panama company!

I showed to my firm coder this hosting offer and he said me that it seems a good choice.

I found some good feedback too on other sites.

I will be really grateful if someone could suggest me a good alternative to NETeller to realize my online business.

Edited December 28, 2005 by bolognamare

[OlRedEyes]

Have you looked at http://www.click2pay.com ?

Another outstanding resource for on-line entrepeneurs : http://www.webmasterworld.com

Not an expert on on-line casinos. but I heard some sad stories along the way. Maybe search for a discussion board where these guys hang out before you pour any money into anything.

Edited December 29, 2005 by OlRedEyes

[bolognamare]

Have you looked at http://www.click2pay.com ?

Another outstanding resource for on-line entrepeneurs : http://www.webmasterworld.com

Not an expert on on-line casinos. but I heard some sad stories along the way. Maybe search for a discussion board where these guys hang out before you pour any money into anything.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks a lot OlRedEyes !!!

Click2pay.com seems a good choice, i'm waiting an answer to discover if I can integrate their service without a merchant agreement, as an individual user (without a company).

I'm waiting answers from Moneybookers.com, Durangomerchantservices.com, Stormpay.com, E-gold.com too.

It's not possible to use : Payweb, 2Checkout.com, Paypal.

The following link can be useful for other dreamers that are evaluating the same matter:

http://www.merchantaccountforum.com/casino...t_accounts.html

Edited December 29, 2005 by bolognamare

[kerr17]

Hi all,

just find out about this board and it really looks very interesting.

I start to have some ideas myself about online bettings.

I use to make a some extra money with the online bettings when I use to live in Phuket few years ago.

I just wanted to thank you for all the good advice you gave me and to be part of the discussion although my english is not very good.

Load of good advice in this board.

Happy new year to you all!!!

[bolognamare]

My online business project is everyday less impossible, i've found the solutions to the last two problems.

Now i need to solve a NEW problem:

I need an offshore bank account, outside european union, with home banking features, no fees (or very low fees for transactions), no interests, and an ATM card. I need it to withdraw the online business incomes.

Suggestions?

Edited January 3, 2006 by bolognamare

[Buncer]

My online business project is everyday less impossible, i've found the solutions to the last two problems. 

Now i need to solve a NEW problem:

I need an offshore bank account, outside european union, with home banking features, no fees (or very low fees for transactions), no interests, and an ATM card. I need it to withdraw the online business incomes.

Suggestions? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Bolognamare, you might want to check out the Offshore Banking / Tax Haven sections on www.escapeartist.com Most of the Offshore centres they seem to talk about are Carribean/Panama/Belize.

A SE Asian alternative Offshore banking centre is the Malaysian territory of Labuan, I think that's how you spell it.

Cheers

[bolognamare]

Hi Bolognamare,   you might want to check out the Offshore Banking / Tax Haven sections on www.escapeartist.com    Most of the Offshore centres they seem to talk about are Carribean/Panama/Belize.

A SE Asian alternative Offshore banking centre is the Malaysian territory of Labuan, I think that's how you spell it.

Cheers

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks a lot for your suggestions, i tried to follow them BUT the results was a LOT of addresses, we are talking about a delicate thing, MONEY so i've looked around my country and I'VE FOUND the RIGHT SOLUTION (i phoned to the bank).

They offer me a basic solution:

- 100 euro/year bank account

- 0.50 euro/operation

- no fees for entry transactions from abroad

- no online features (fax or phone for info)

- COMPLETE bank secret, no relations with European Union!

- they speak my language

- required documents to open the account: my passport only!

To withdraw money? directly to the bank desk (not so far from my living place).

It's possible to add an American Express Gold card for 106 euro/year (+4% fees), but i don't need it for the first times to test my online business, may be when i will expat...

The country?

Not so far from Italy, don't ask me more (may be if you have exchangable infos, i can share with you more by PM only).

Edited January 4, 2006 by bolognamare

[BillyParadise]

Bolognamare,

Seems like you've got it all figured out.

However, before you go merily off to start a gambling website, let me ask you a quick question - you're not thinking of starting a casino without a license in Panama, are you?

An excerpt from CasinoCity.com:

http://online.casinocity.com/jurisdictions...ction.cfm?id=32

Panama adopted regulations governing the licensing of electronic games of chance and wagering activities in late 2002. The regulations allow master licenses to be granted that are valid for up to seven years upon payment of a license fee of USD $40,000. There is also an annual license fee of USD $20,000. Master license holders may grant sub-licenses, which are subject to the annual fee. Applicants must pay all investigation costs incurred in the processing of the application.

I hope I've misunderstood you and you just want to just do an affiliate site. That you should have no problem with, as long as you don't host it in the USA.

You seem to be trying to build everything on the cheap - an admirable goal, but in the words of Robert Heinlein, TANSTAAFL. There Aint No Such Thing As A Free Lunch. You can't run a gambling website without a license. And you shouldn't get involved with ANY risky business without running it through a company. And if you decide to run a gambling site without a license, as a "sole proprietor", YOU WILL GET ARRESTED. QUICKLY.

Here are the steps I took, and recommend:

1. Incorporate in a tax haven.

2. Get a bank account (or two) in a DIFFERENT tax haven, or a country with good banking that does not tax foreign-source income.

3. Work on getting a merchant account. In the meantime, use Paypal, 2Checkout, Neteller, etc.

Discount rates from merchant providers seem to be an alien idea to you. Get used to them - you can't get away from them. They're a cost of doing business. And with Neteller, there are ZERO chargebacks. It's insurance.

Neteller will not allow you to set up a gambling account with them unless you provide proper documentation for the jurisdiction of your company.

Best,

BP

[lung]

ha ha ha hallo...

somebody try www.paysbuy.com (LOS) allready??

[bolognamare]

You seem to be trying to build everything on the cheap - an admirable goal, but in the words of Robert Heinlein, TANSTAAFL. There Aint No Such Thing As A Free Lunch. You can't run a gambling website without a license. And you shouldn't get involved with ANY risky business without running it through a company. And if you decide to run a gambling site without a license, as a "sole proprietor", YOU WILL GET ARRESTED. QUICKLY.

Here are the steps I took, and recommend:

1. Incorporate in a tax haven.

2. Get a bank account (or two) in a DIFFERENT tax haven, or a country with good banking that does not tax foreign-source income.

3. Work on getting a merchant account. In the meantime, use Paypal, 2Checkout, Neteller, etc.

Discount rates from merchant providers seem to be an alien idea to you. Get used to them - you can't get away from them. They're a cost of doing business. And with Neteller, there are ZERO chargebacks. It's insurance.

Neteller will not allow you to set up a gambling account with them unless you provide proper documentation for the jurisdiction of your company.

Best,

BP

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree with you if i follow your idea but IF YOU LOOK WELL to MY POSTS, AND if you make carefully the same steps that I have done (it takes time i know, thanks Oldredeyes for the life lesson, i needed it), you discover that it's POSSIBLE to realize what i say for less than you imagine (for me it's not easy to save a lot of money, trust me, i could spend them for a vacation in the LOS, but i prefer to risk to have solved the MAZE).

1. I have NEVER said that the hosting server is located in Panama...

2. I have said that Neteller ISN'T a good choice for the beginning ...

3. I don't need a merchant agreement!

4. I don't need a company!

5. IF i live in Iceland, BUT the hosting server is in Antigua (for. ex.), AND the bank account is in Andorra and Antigua changes his law about gambling, i will simply change the hosting server country (if Antigua considers my business illegal). BUT i live in Iceland (or everywhere you want), HOW the Antigua government can arrest me? and WHY if i have checked that the matter is still not regulated from the law (and is done from others without problems)? I can do everything if it's still not regulated from the law (I made law studies, thanks mom) and if I haven't considered everything (it's possible, nobody is perfect) I live in another country... i have the time to correct the mistake.

If gambling is illegal in my country i can go in Macao and bet my money in a casinò, or not?

This website is very helpful : http://www.gamblinglicenses.com

Edited January 4, 2006 by bolognamare

[bolognamare]

somebody try www.paysbuy.com  (LOS) allready??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Paysbuy is the first and only one Thai company who is certified with Visa and MasterCard for “Verified by Visa” and “SecureCode” system respectively.

https://www.paysbuy.com/about.aspx

Prohibited Transactions - You agree that you will not use PaySbuy to accept payment for illegal products or services..

https://www.paysbuy.com/useragreement.aspx

Gambling and betting is illegal in Thailand (even if the "black market" seems quite big ... and controlled from few hands, but it's not my problem)

You can read about gambling-website-crackdown this article:

http://www.bangladeshobserveronline.com/ne...04/06/22/it.htm (scroll down the pages..)

thanks for the suggestion, anyway!

Edited January 4, 2006 by bolognamare

[bolognamare]

If gambling is illegal in my country i can go in Macao and bet my money in a casinò, or not?

Well, i found tonight this interesting post on another forum:

If you live in the USA, then the following apply:

1. It is illegal to own and operate a casino online. You can set up your servers on the moon, but you are still in violation of the law if you physically are taking up space in this country.

2. It is illegal to bet online.

Why is it illegal to bet online? Well, the government operates under the guise that it's for your own personal safety, but we all know the real reason--taxation.

They know full well that you can make money gambling off-shore from the comfort of your U.S. home and not pay any taxes.

It is illegal to cause someone else to do something illegal (IE inciting a riot). If that's the case, one could argue that leading people to online betting establishments is illegal--IE casino affiliates.

Will they ever prosecute? Possibly in an election year or if someone decides they have something to prove.

Well, it's not so difficult to solve it "today".. but it's better to know that in advance!

Edited January 8, 2006 by bolognamare

[bolognamare]

Look there, dreamers :

http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=45557

[bolognamare]

From your silence, i suppose that something good is growing, so i decided to add an useful consideration about a basic matter because you could really need to "think & operate" offshore :

Security & Privacy

Everything started from the "funny" checks done on : www.cached.it

You can discover the country where the server is located (not necessary to tell more i suppose) :

Try these samples:

- www.tahivisa.com

- www.yahoo.it (it was my main email account... )

Try other domains taken from my last posts... (it's like discovering a different world).

Now imagine to be ready to setup your online business, to comunicate with the coder, with the hosting people,...between us...

Understood?

(PM me for more if you don't).

Maybe cached.it is not the only one, if you know a better way to locate a server please post it or PM me.

A suggestion?

Leave Outlook Express for Mozilla Thunderbird and look for a better emal provider located in the right country.

Ohh, yeees the good old outlook and the good old unsure email account are ok for the "Topic Subscription Reply Notification From Thailand Forum" emails.

Edited January 12, 2006 by bolognamare

[bangkokStranger]

Does anyone know the legal aspects of the following:

1) If i was to set up an online website that gaveaway prizes, say a laptop and ipod etc and someone had to pay a nominal fee to enter would this be considered gambling and as such would i need a license of some sort?

2) Also if i went the route of giving away free prizes and decided to make my money from advertising instead would i need some sort of license for this?

3) And am i bound by my countries laws with regard to this when the website is international or is there an international or online law that covers this??

Thanks for your help

[poorfarang]

You can get away with it if you do it a certain way. You can get around the gambling aspect by tell visitors that they are purchasing an ebook or something untangable. Then you will randomly give a free gift to one user who buys the ebook. I read somewhere that this is the easy way to go.

---------------

I make my money entirely online from Thailand. I do a number of things. I run several websites, Im big into affilaite marketing, and a few other things that I wont mention. (to avoid compition I guess) Your best bet is to make a website or blog about something that you are passionate about. If you like cars then make a blog or website about cars. Update it everyday with fresh content and ideas. Soon the search engines will start picking you up, and so will users. Once you get a steady flow of traffic then you can place some adsvertisments on the site. Something like google adsense or a similar network. You might start off making only a few dollars a day but it will grow. Some people prefer to make 10-15 websites that earn a few bucks a day instead of focusing entirly on one website.

There are also a few other legitimate programs for making money on the internet easily. Some take a small investment up front (less then $100) and others dont. Im going to make another website soon on this topic and

I will keep everyone updated with my findings.

You can always send me a PM if your getting started or have questions or want some help with anything.

[bolognamare]

Does anyone know the legal aspects of the following:

1) If i was to set up an online website that gaveaway prizes, say a laptop and ipod etc and someone had to pay a nominal fee to enter would this be considered gambling and as such would i need a license of some sort?

2) Also if i went the route of giving away free prizes and decided to make my money from advertising instead would i need some sort of license for this?

3) And am i bound by my countries laws with regard to this when the website is international or is there an international or online law that covers this??

Thanks for your help

Gambling has had many different meanings depending on the cultural and historical context in which it is used. Currently, in western society, it generally has an economic definition and meaning and typically refers to "wagering money or something of material value on something with an uncertain outcome in hope of winning additional money or material goods".

Furthermore:

- the outcome of the wager is typically evident within a short period of time;

- the primary intent of the bet is to win additional money or material goods.

This definition of gambling usually excludes:

- emotional or physical risk-taking where what is being risked is not money or material goods (e.g., skydiving, running for office, asking someone for a date, etc.);

- buying insurance, as the primary intent of the purchase is to protect against loss, rather than to collect or win;

- all forms of long-term 'investment' (stock market, real estate) with positive expected returns and economic utility;

- starting a new business, as time and effort are also being wagered and the outcome is not determined in a short period of time;

- situations where the possibility of winning additional money or material goods is a secondary or incidental reason for the wager/purchase (e.g., buying a raffle ticket to support a worthy cause).

Gambling varies on four dimensions:

1. What is being wagered (money or material goods).

2. How much is being wagered.

3. The predictability of the event. For some things such as lotteries, slot machines and bingo, the results are random and unpredictable. No skill or system will give you any advantage. For other things such as sports betting and horse racing there is some predictability to the outcome. In this situation greater knowledge and skill gives a person an advantage over other bettors.

4. The 'expected value', the positive or negative mathematical expectation.

[exactly copied from the good old Wikipedia]

About the second and third answer every country (not offshore) wants (and "needs" ) to tax every kind of income generated under his sovranity, so upon its territory.

If you are planning to avoid it look well to your living country list of admitted bussinesses that produce taxes and the illegal activities that cannot be ruled without license or cannot be ruled at all (and their penalties).

Better if you have a lawyer as a friend (or look for some lawyers forum where to post your concern).

I make my money entirely online from Thailand. I do a number of things. I run several websites, Im big into affilaite marketing, and a few other things that I wont mention. (to avoid compition I guess) Your best bet is to make a website or blog about something that you are passionate about. If you like cars then make a blog or website about cars. Update it everyday with fresh content and ideas. Soon the search engines will start picking you up, and so will users. Once you get a steady flow of traffic then you can place some adsvertisments on the site. Something like google adsense or a similar network. You might start off making only a few dollars a day but it will grow. Some people prefer to make 10-15 websites that earn a few bucks a day instead of focusing entirly on one website.

Nice suggestion, really!

I'm evaluating to follow my online business from Thailand. Exactly from Phuket Island.

The hosting server where is located my website is not in Thailand.

Is it possible that the provider share my traffic data with authorities to check my work?

Is it possible to discover and avoid that in advance?

Am i paranoid thinking that?

Edited January 16, 2006 by bolognamare

[poorfarang]

Im not sure what you mean. Are you asking if your webhost is going to report to the Thai government about what you do online? I wouldnt worry about this as long as your not selling ya baa on ebay or something

[bolognamare]

Im not sure what you mean. Are you asking if your webhost is going to report to the Thai government about what you do online? I wouldnt worry about this as long as your not selling ya baa on ebay or something

I mean, if you stay in Los and you follow your online businesses from Los (like you), and you use an ADSL thai service (like you i presume), BUT your online business are not hosted in Los (so not submissed to the thai laws), is it possible that the Los provider (the one that gives you the ADSL service, like True for ex.) can share your traffic data with the Los authorities to look what are you doing upon the Los territory (even if your business is under the law of another country, where your business websites are hosted)?

Is it possible to avoid that?

Is it absurd?

[LivinLOS]

Yes its technically possible.. Yes its also unbsurd...

Install Ghostsurf platinum pro and your anon enough for small concerns (eg non terrorist / drug type stuff)....

[poorfarang]

^ What he said

Anything is possible but I think you have gone mad by worring about it. I mean, if the thai government were watching over my sholder in my house they might not even realize that what I was doing on the internet is actaully generating cash. And for the government to sift through everyones packets and try to see who is doing what is a big task.

[Phil Conners]

What makes you think you can have a comfortable life for $1000/month? As a beach bum perhaps but if you want a decent place to live, a car, go out once in a while and generally have a decent life I THINK you'd be looking at closer to $2500-$3000 MINIMUM.

[bolognamare]

Yes its technically possible.. Yes its also unbsurd...

Install Ghostsurf platinum pro and your anon enough for small concerns (eg non terrorist / drug type stuff)....

Well, maybe it's a false problem, i asked to my firm coder.

It's possible. To do that exist programs like Legion or Ethereal, but they need a big skill and a lot of time to understand these data. And probably too expensive to see little unruled businesses hosted abroad.

Basically the best solution is:

- SSL email to comunicate with your coder and anyone else (that lives outside Los and outside your living country)

- SSL to manage every kind of money transactions (outside Los)

Nothing can be understood.

Problem solved!

Edited January 17, 2006 by bolognamare