Revamping HSBC Sells Thai Banking Assets

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Remembering that this is Thailand, "comparable" would be considered a very relative term.

But re the minimum account balance required with BAY for their perky account, I believe the earlier posts indicate they'll accept 3 million baht for the first year as a courtesy to former HSBC folks. But then expect the balance to be brought up to the normal 5 million amount after that. Or you'll get de-perked, so to speak.

[rogerdee123]

I'm also looking for a comparable alternative to my HSBC Premier Acct and have spent the last couple of days bank shopping.

My arrangement as been HSBC accounts here in Bangkok and also in Singapore. I qualified for Premier status here and that automatically gives me premier status in Singapore. BTW ... minimum balance for HSBC Premier in Singapore is 200k$ (sing $). But if one has a HSBC Premier account elsewhere ... you are automatically "Premier" at other HSBC branches where you hold accounts.

For "global" banking, there appears to be only Standard Chartered & Citibank .... i.e. if one is looking for a reasonable number of branches around the world including US and Europe. I want global banking facility because I travel a lot and like the idea of hassle-free access to my funds thru the local branch should an emergency arise. In the last 5 years I've only used that facility twice but that was enough for me to conclude it's a valuable benefit.

My enquiry experience this week with Citibank here in Bangkok was disappointing. This opinion is entirely based upon my experience with their staff ... who seem to me to not be up to the same levels of HSBC and Standard Chartered. The first thing out of their mouth was ... "you must have a work permit" (I'm here on retirement visa or "permit" or whatever it is). In the meeting their staff also did not listen or did not hear (or poor English) my initial introduction when I told them I am an HSBC Premier account holder and am looking for a bank to replace my HSBC Premier account. It was only 15 minutes into the conversation that they finally realized I already had bank accounts in Thailand. Prior to that a couple of times they incorrectly told me that "in Thailand you cannot do that". They also told me (and I think this is wrong also) that I would have to transfer my funds at HSBC out of the country and then transfer them back in again in order to open the account. Indeed they told me that as a foreigner I could not open an account with a transfer from another bank in Thailand (although after the account is opened it's acceptable), which I think is wrong also. They also said they would charge 1% fee for incoming foreign currency transfers ... and since my balance at HSBC Bangkok is more than 200k$ this means it would cost me $2k to open the account. OK I think a lot of what they told me was incorrect, but I have no interest in dealing with staff like this on a regular basis. Also Citibank requires a larger balance than Standard Chartered for their "premier" level. However Citibank benefits re credit cards and shopping discounts (I could care less) seem a little better than Standard Chartered.

Standard Chartered ("priority level") staff inspire confidence and Standard Chartered only requires 3 million for their "priority status". When I told them I was an HSBC Premier Account holder, they knew exactly what to say and began telling me the difference between HSBC Premier and their "premier" level, called "Priority". HOWEVER ... they told me that Standard Chartered in Thailand does not provide "global" banking services like HSBC and they recommended I open an account at Standard Chartered Singapore (which does provide "global" services) and link it up with a Standard Chartered account in Bangkok. hmmmm .... this is an option. One can be a "priority" account holder at Standard Chartered with a minimum balance of 3 million baht, similar to HSBC Premier and this would automatically qualify me for "Priority" account at Standard Chartered Singapore. So it would be something similar to my present set-up (I have HSBC accounts here and in Singapore).

Although I haven't yet made the final decision, after talking with a few acquaintances in similar situations as I, I'm leaning towards opening an account at BAY and keeping my HSBC account in Singapore. I'll transfer most of my funds now held at HSBC Bangkok to HSBC Singapore and keep about 2 million baht in BAY in Bangkok to keep me (and wife) qualified for retirement visa ... as well as provide cushion for living/operating expenses ... which I can top up now and then. I'm thinking I will do this for the first year and enjoy the BAY benefits of one-year grace period (i.e. no minimum balance for HSBC Premier refugees) at their Premier level. Then I will decide if I need to change or open accounts at CitiBank or Standard Chartered.

Many years ago I had bank accounts at Bank of America and when they gave up consumer banking in Thailand and became a merchant bank here, I changed to Chase Manhattan and then when they gave up on consumer banking and became a merchant bank I changed to HSBC. Now HSBC has given up on consumer banking here and is becoming a merchant bank. It makes me wonder if Standard Chartered and Citibank may follow this trend in the next year or two. It seems clear to me that the "non-Thai" banks here are operating at a disadvantage and like almost everything else in Thailand, there isn't a level playing field for the banking industry here ... Some of you readers in the banking industry may have some comments to make in this regard.

[samtam]

Yes, sadly this is an all too familiar story. I am a Premier account holder, based on my Premier status in Hong Kong, UK, Jersey etc. I've only ever used HSBC here for the visa extension, (viz deposit for three months and the bank letter). My relationship manager was easy to deal with, and easy to contact etc. She said she might transfer to BAY, but hasn't yet decided. But with the one year limit on Exclusive Banking being made available on the same terms to existing HSBC Premier account holders, I think I will probably switch to UOB where I have held a small savings account to take care of local Thai bills. I made my number with one of the staff, and she seemed to be familiar with visa extension requirements, (specifically the letter for Immigration). This year, (third week in May), HSBC will take care of all of that for the last time. Next year I will try UOB, and I think it should be OK. HSBC's closure here for retail is annoying, but probably more of a mental annoyance than anything significant.

[ExpatJ]

I just closed my HSBC premier account in Thailand and did not open one with BAY- I was able to swtich my mutual fund from HSBC to BAY without needing a bank account with them so that was handy.

The big problem for BAY with me, is that after one year you will need 5 million baht in your account at any time in order to keep premier status. The one benefit that would have kept me with BAY is the use of the first class Thai airport lounge for BAY premier members- unfortunately this can only be used twice per year and since i travel 1-2 per month it means nothing.

[griffer]

well, sorry to say, I'm not taking the chance...

i've been moving my money from LOS to HSBCSingapore over last few days and just leaving a nominal amount in my thai baht, UKpound and USD account here in BKK.

I want to see what happens with the switch over.. I will be pleasantly surprised if it goes well.. and hope to be proved wrong.. I've enjoyed the HSBC premier experience here..

I also looked at opening an account with HSBC malaysia and was surprised that for premier status you only require RM 200,000 (UKP 42,000) (?)...

[rogerdee123]

To follow up my post of yesterday .... today I discovered a couple of more unexpected tidbits regarding the HSBC/BAY arrangement.

I have a joint account with my wife at HSBC. However at BAY, they will not issue joint credit cards (i.e. a supplemental card for my wife who is on the joint account). Apparently she would have to open a separate and individual account to get a credit card and an ATM card in her own name. This probably means another minimum amount balance for this new account. Another 5 million baht? probably not .... yet still this is a unnecessary hassle from my point of view and a disappointment.

Also both HSBC and BAY are vague as to exactly what kind of credit card BAY will issue to the new customers from HSBC. They say they are still negotiating and discussing this. However at BAY they say that they require 6 months of 5 million + balance before the top level "exclusive" VISA card would be issued. I pointed out that I understood that HSBC Premier customers would qualify for "exclusive" status at BAY for their first year at BAY and although they agreed that this is the case, they said that the credit card issue is still being discussed/negotiated. At the moment HSBC & BAY have apparently agreed that HSBC Premier customers can still use their HSBC Premier Credit cards until November ... but it isn't clear what happens re the Credit Card issue after that. At BAY they can only say now ... "you must apply and wait for 6 months for approval".

Also for all you folks here on retirement visas, I have discovered that these banks here in Thailand have (upper) age limits for approving new customers for credit cards. At Standard Chartered I was told it's 60yo UNLESS you have a priority account. At BAY it's 70yo UNLESS you have their exclusive account. I didn't ask this question at CitiBank. I also did not ask BAY the question ... "When I become 70 yo will my credit card be renewed". If you are a new customer above their maximum age limit, they will only issue you a debit card.

Edited February 24, 2012 by rogerdee123

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

It seems as though HSBC, as would be expected, has been trying its best to put lipstick on a pig in terms of shoving its customers out the door to BAY....

The one thing, I suspect, that appealed to many HSBC customers in Thailand, especially Premier accountholders, was the available online international funds transfer function to different HSBC accounts in different countries...

Unless I've missed something, I haven't seen anything comparable offered as a replacement.

Edited February 25, 2012 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[zebnow]

Has anyone found a BAY branch in Bangkok where English is spoken fluently?

[SantiSuk]

^^ Bump ^^

Anyone else had any good or bad experiences in tranferring away from the moribund retail banker HSBC?

As a last resort, does anyone have any comments on the interent banking experience in English with the main Thailand national banks - in particular the ones I have in my local town which would be

Bangkok Bank

Kasikorn

Bank Ayyudyah (yes - I've decided it might be cutting off my nose to spite my face to completely discount them)

SCB

Thannarchat

Krungthai

[chiang mai]

^^ Bump ^^

Anyone else had any good or bad experiences in tranferring away from the moribund retail banker HSBC?

As a last resort, does anyone have any comments on the interent banking experience in English with the main Thailand national banks - in particular the ones I have in my local town which would be

Bangkok Bank

Kasikorn

Bank Ayyudyah (yes - I've decided it might be cutting off my nose to spite my face to completely discount them)

SCB

Thannarchat

Krungthai

I opened accounts at BAY and Kasikorn and both were pain free, I'm particularly impressed with BAY here in CM. I also opened an account with HSBC in Singapore which was really impressive, I now have more cards and cheque books from them than I can sensibly use when all I wanted was a savings account in SGD!

[RubbaJohnny]

I am happy with Citibank never liked HSBC ad I used to work for em

Of Thai banks Kasikorn seems keenest

[zebnow]

The following update is a bit long, but hopefully will provide some useful information to other forum members who are wondering what to do about the HSBC closure.

On Monday this week, I went to the main HSBC branch and talked with one of the Premier reps about moving to BAY. She could not answer all my questions, so she pulled in a woman who was there from the BAY branch at All Seasons Place on Wireless Road, and she helped fill in some of the information gaps.

I told them one of my main concerns was being able to walk into my bank and converse with someone in English, since I am not fluent in Thai yet. The woman from BAY said there are English speaking employees at the BAY ‘Exclusive’ banking center at All Seasons Place, so I told them I was going to drop in there the next day to chat before deciding to move any accounts to BAY.

The next morning I visited BAY at All Seasons Place and talked with a representative in ‘Exclusive’ banking. I told her that since I would likely not qualify for ‘Exclusive’ status after the one year grace period is up, that I wanted to see if anyone in the regular banking department can also speak English. They did have a teller who I spoke with, and she said they will be getting more English speaking employees transferring over from HSBC soon.

After that, I went back to the HSBC branch and did the paperwork to move my savings account to the BAY All Seasons Place Branch. When the account is transferred to BAY, it will become a resident type account and qualify to earn some interest, which is currently 0.75% APY. I am here on a retirement visa and that was enough to be able to get the resident type account at BAY. You must have a resident type of account to be able to have an ATM or Debit card, and to have online banking capability. Non-resident accounts at BAY can only be maintained through branch visits for withdrawals, deposits, updating passbook records, etc. There is no online banking access for non-resident accounts. By the way, as I understand it, the Thai Deposit Protection Act (DPA) only protects deposits for ‘resident’ type of accounts up to 1M baht. Non-resident accounts do not qualify for DPA protection. I did not realize that when I opened my non-resident HSBC savings account some time ago. BAY gave me an ATM card along with my new passbook. The card does not have my name imprinted, so I need to go to a BAY branch after 10 working days have passed, then I am supposed to be able to have an imprinted ‘Exclusive’ Debit card made on the spot.

I am supposed to qualify for the ‘Exclusive’ BAY VISA credit card automatically after November when the HSBC Premier MasterCard is phased out. I was told that I could keep the BAY ‘Exclusive’ VISA card until it expires, even if my account balance is below 5M baht. Upon expiration, if my account balance is below 5M baht, the card will be downgraded to a ‘normal’ BAY VISA card. When I asked what the deposit qualifications are for the ‘normal’ BAY VISA card, I was told a balance of 1M baht is required when applying. However, since I am moving over from an HSBC Premier MasterCard, I supposedly do not have to meet the 1M baht deposit requirement when the BAY ‘Exclusive’ VISA card is downgraded to a normal VISA card. They had me sign a form to set up the ability to automatically debit my BAY savings account to pay the HSBC credit card bill.

I set up the transfer of the savings account to BAY to take place at the end of March, to give myself time to consider whether I wanted to move further funds to top up the HSBC Thai account while I still have HSBC global account linkage. I decided to do a global transfer today and the transfer went through in about 2 hours. Unfortunately, a preferred exchange rate was not part of the deal, as had been the case in previous global transfers. Instead HSBC Thailand gave the ‘counter’ exchange rate, which was 0.15 points lower than I had expected based on the preliminary rate displayed on the global transfer web page. I ended up having a lengthy discussion with a Premier call center rep in Thailand and then his supervisor, but they would not budge and stuck me with the counter rate.

ATM withdrawals at machines other than BAY machines in Thailand should incur a fee of 20 baht. I went around with HSBC and BAY reps on that one after first being told it would be 15 baht, then 35 baht. My Thai wife has an account at another Thai bank and she has told me that she typically incurs a fee of 20 baht when using another bank’s ATM, so the 20 baht charge for BAY seems in line. I believe a fee will also apply at BAY ATMs, if they are outside the Bangkok area where my branch is located.

Account confirmation letters for visa renewals must be picked up and signed for in person at BAY, so no more mailed letters as HSBC has provided. The BAY rep at HSBC told me that I would need to visit my BAY branch (or possibly another branch), which would then have to send for advice to the main BAY office on Rama III Road. The process would take 2 to 3 hours before the branch could provide the letter for a fee of 100 baht (that may be the BAY ‘Exclusive’ rate, and the regular account fee might be higher, although I am not sure). BAY does not provide statements with savings accounts as HSBC has done. Instead, I will need to bring my updated passbook along with the confirmation letter to Thai immigration for visa renewal.

Lastly, one of the HSBC reps advised me that there are currently discussions going on between HSBC and BAY about the use of the HSBC main branch location. BAY may take that over to make it one of their branches, since HSBC customers are used to going there, but that is not final.

Now I am in waiting mode for April 1 hoping that my transfer to BAY goes without a major hitch.

[SantiSuk]

Very useful Zebnow. Thanks

On a point of detail, you said 'Instead HSBC Thailand gave the ‘counter’ exchange rate, which was 0.15 points lower than I had expected based on the preliminary rate displayed on the global transfer web page'. I have made many global transfers. The rate indicated at time of instigating the transaction has always been just that - the rate indicated. The actual rate is usually that of a day later and has always been different in my experience - I have had as much as 0.5 points higher (e.g 49.5 instead of 49.0) and 0.5 points lower and there's nothing you can do about it. I monitor rates very carefully and HSBC's rate over the last year has almost always been lower than the one indicated for Bangkok Bank per their website - typically around 0.2 points lower. The fact you can transfer much larger sums (and to a lesser extent the fact that there is no recieving bank charges) with HSBC global transfer view compensates for that.

Does anyone know what the deposit protection amounts are in Singapore?

[chiang mai]

Yes, Singapore Deposit Protection Insurance is $50k per account.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

ATM withdrawals at machines other than BAY machines in Thailand should incur a fee of 20 baht. I went around with HSBC and BAY reps on that one after first being told it would be 15 baht, then 35 baht. My Thai wife has an account at another Thai bank and she has told me that she typically incurs a fee of 20 baht when using another bank’s ATM, so the 20 baht charge for BAY seems in line. I believe a fee will also apply at BAY ATMs, if they are outside the Bangkok area where my branch is located.

I don't believe that info above is correct. And it's pretty sad that even the bank staff couldn't give you a clear and definite answer on the issue of using other banks' ATMs.

If I recall correctly, such things are governed by the Bank of Thailand. And without looking up the reg, my memory says that Thai banks typically allow a certain number (four or five) of foreign ATM transactions per month for free...and then start charging a 20 baht or so fee after that complimentary number has been exceeded.

But there are some Thai banks that do better than than... For example, Standard Chartered, perhaps because of their smaller branch and ATM networks, gives its account holders no fee use of any Thai bank ATM period... no fees ever.

[MickeyM]

I have investigated CitiBank options for their CitiGold (Premier) account. Not even close to HSBC services. Fees charged for most everything, including transfers from other Citi banks. Only 2M baht qualifies, but not on a combined International basis as HSBC. Forget maintaining a US$ account locally - they charge .5% on all deposits into such, including transfers (1% for US$ cash deposits). They quote offering 'Global View' but only for information, not transfers.

[griffer]

If you are going to do the change from HSBC remember to take with you your passport and a utility bill in your name(I did not bring this and had to return)..

also note that each account you open (I was opening Thai Baht, USD, and UKP) must retain a balance of $500 or there is a charge of $10/month..

now I've got the interesting experience of visiting BoA in All Seasons Place..cards ready in two weeks they told me.

[SantiSuk]

HSBC will not currently undertake a Global View transfer from an HSBC UK account to an HSBC Thai account. The service has been 'temporarily' unavailable for at least the last three working days that I have tried, according to the website. If it's not available tomorow I'll have to call the to find out why and when it will return.

What a great service this so-called World Bank is now giving (not). Bloody typical that they go and do that when the rate has gone up from its lows of this last quarter. So much for the priveleges of being a Premier customer.

PS - HSBC Bangkok told me that global transfers could still be made after 31-March, so in theory the intended closure/sell-off is not the reason. That's the only reason I did not rush to close my HSBC account before 31 March.

[chiang mai]

HSBC will not currently undertake a Global View transfer from an HSBC UK account to an HSBC Thai account. The service has been 'temporarily' unavailable for at least the last three working days that I have tried, according to the website. If it's not available tomorow I'll have to call the to find out why and when it will return.

What a great service this so-called World Bank is now giving (not). Bloody typical that they go and do that when the rate has gone up from its lows of this last quarter. So much for the priveleges of being a Premier customer.

PS - HSBC Bangkok told me that global transfers could still be made after 31-March, so in theory the intended closure/sell-off is not the reason. That's the only reason I did not rush to close my HSBC account before 31 March.

I'll be grateful if you'd post your findings on this, as and when you find out.

[SantiSuk]

Global transfers function is working again today (which was the first time I have tried since before Easter. The indicated rate is rather poor at 48.15, compared to the rate you would get if you sent money to say Bangkok Bank, whose sight TT rate today is 48.88.

Sending say GBP 10,000 directly to your Bangkok Bank account in Thailand (I have one for this purpose) would generate in theory 488,800 baht less GBP 17 transfer charge from HSBC and about 800 baht Bangkok Bank charges on receipt - net product 487,170 baht. Doing a Global transfer at 48.15 would generate only 481,500 baht. So much for the benefit of being an HSBC Premier customer! In the past the differential between HSBC exhange rates applied to global transfers as compared with Bangkok Bank's rate has been marginal making the global transfer with its convenience well worthwhile. It's little surprise that the exchange rates have got relatively poorer with HSBC after it announced it was pulling out of Thialand retail banking. Coincidence yes? Sure!

To do more than GBP 10,000 would require an agreed currency transaction at a one off exchange rate, whereas lager sums can be done at 48.15 on-line under a global transfer. Given the unfavourable outcome on the sub-GBP 10,000 amount, I would want to investigate the alternative of sending to my Bangkok Bank account before running with the ease of a global transfer.

[Babcock]

My question is having recently set up a Premier account here with HSBC to take future funds (and just received the letter about the closureand changeover to BAY) how do I go about settting up another Premier account say in Singapore or even over in the UK?

It was relatively easy to set up the account here. I'm very disappointed. I do not have a work permit either.

The account needs to be in euros. I already bank with Kasikhorn and use HIFX for transfers which works fine and is a lot easier than using Santander in UK!

Languageses>en YahooCE

DNA

[chiang mai]

My question is having recently set up a Premier account here with HSBC to take future funds (and just received the letter about the closureand changeover to BAY) how do I go about settting up another Premier account say in Singapore or even over in the UK?

It was relatively easy to set up the account here. I'm very disappointed. I do not have a work permit either.

The account needs to be in euros. I already bank with Kasikhorn and use HIFX for transfers which works fine and is a lot easier than using Santander in UK!

Languageses>en YahooCEdata:image/png;base64,iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAABwAAAAOCAYAAAA8E3wEAAAABmJLR0QA/wD/AP+gvaeTAAAACXBIWXMAAAsTAAALEwEAmpwYAAAAB3RJTUUH1QUUDyoqJjAqRwAAAN1JREFUOMu1lMkVwyAMBYe0JGpCNUFNVk3k4AUwxPGS+ILxkzX8jyTH/Sfu9nrmJ3cXlnMASyWRPwd2d5XlHCBZn1BthcbRAdxTZQDI8k3mQzg11rhF+QZ9jdNOcQib6GFQYJYgCFucSRf6GsLU6wEY5yubTFqF2yq1vRwr3INXdQUWG+je1pELX4ED1wDyRAR0WfuAA9gloITyvsFMIMgYInYRqF6rO9Sqz9qkO5ilyo0o3YBwJ+6vrdQonxWUQllhXeHcb/wabMPkP2n81ocAIoLZrMqn/4y2RwP8DcQ+d6rT9ATiAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC

DNA

Contact your rep at HSBC Bangkok and they'll do it for you, I just set up an account in Singapore but now question whether I'll actually use it and may well substitute Kasikorn locally instead..