Thongsook College

[nellyp]

It is a shame that Richard10365 can not shed a little light on the subject of how to verify the status of a single course or how we would check on his University, especially as he seems to believe that the University (Thongsook) has not been accredited. It might help with other people's research. Infact anybody who works in a University may be able to help with this.

[brucetefl]

Actually yesterday I called Payup University and spoke to the woman who apparently runs their international department. She is Thai but spoke English quite well.

Unfortunately she knew no one named Richard who worked in the International Department. Maybe he is using a fake name here in the forum.

"Richard" I would love to contact you to clear up some errors in your post.

It is a shame that Richard10365 can not shed a little light on the subject of how to verify the status of a single course or how we would check on his University, especially as he seems to believe that the University (Thongsook) has not been accredited. It might help with other people's research. Infact anybody who works in a University may be able to help with this.

[FastCarvt1]

I think Bruce needs a beer or 3 after all this lol

Bruce, I for one would jump all over this BA program as I am sure

others would if there was simply anything in writing from the MOE or

any other places that make it truly accredited'

Let's face it, it will be a 3 year commitment and 3 years of monthly

payments.... I think we all would like something more then simply

some guy named Bruce saying all is accredited.

I do not care about the waiver for the teachers tests, if I need to do

that also then I will.... However one of the rules as now also in more

and more countries is to have a degree to become a legal teacher,

it would truly suck to do this program and after 3 years find it is

not accredited and not accepted in Thailand OR in any other countries.

With such a commitment for 3 years, we just want to know 100% it is

accredited and accepted here and world wide, surly there must be

something in writing that says all is good ?

Looking forward to taking the course once we have something more

concrete then simply some guy saying it is.

Best wishes and good luck !

[brucetefl]

I am sure once this gets going and there is more "evidence" many people will feel better.

But as was said on another thread in another forum:

It seems to me that it would be rather silly for Thongsook College, an Instituteof Higher Learning recognized by the Thai MOE and CHE, would jeopardize that status by offering a degree that was not 100% legitimate.

Maybe I am missing something??

[Baytur]

Okay, what people need to do. Contact other Universities offering Int. Programs and ask for some course accreditation details.

This B.A TESOL may well be all good, though also, in 3 years when an employer looks into it and says 'Oh, the MOE/CHE haven't given accreditation to this course so it cannot be used for a Thai WP', you're reply will have to be, 'actually, because they didn't show accreditation within a legal timeframe it is automatically accredited'.

If that is the case I doubt it's going to fly with the MoE officer who wants to see evidence of accreditation. It being accredited simply by not being accredited in a certain time-frame, with no documented evidence seems extremely iffy.

Are Other Int. Uni Courses in Thailand the same? Can someone check?

[brucetefl]

In fact every Thai immigration officer knows (or can easily verify) Thongsook College is accredited. There will be no issues.

Do you think they check to see if every program from every university is INDIVIDUALLY accredited?

"Oh, you studied English Liturature, I better check to make shre that DEGREE was accredited. I know the English major at XYZ college is accredited but not so sure about English Lit!"

You guys are taking this to a ridiculous extreme. Is it intentional?

[Baytur]

Absolutely not intentional.

I want to be 100% certain that in 3 years time (if the rules are the same), that when you present this totally new degree, that the officer might want to check as he's never seen one before, and likely never heard of it before, isn't going to look on the MoE database that presumably has all MoE Accredited B.A Courses listed and not see this one on it.

All we are asking is for MoE/CHE documentation that this degree is accredited. It appears that it cannot be shown because they have not replied to it's application, which you say legally accredits it.

This doesn't exactly fill one with certainty.

Edited May 25, 2012 by Baytur

[brucetefl]

You are making a big assumption--that there is a list of accredited BA programs. This list may, in fact, exist. It may not. If it does, then in 3 years I am certain our program will be on it. We have acted according to all rules regarding accreditation of programs.

[Baytur]

Not sure if it will shed any light on the situation, but I've emailed a well known Int. Prog. (and will try to email some others with:

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am an EU National living in Bangkok. I am interested in studying for a B.A Arts Business English with your Int. program. Before enrolling I wish to confirm with the MoE or CHE (Council of Higher Education) that the B.A is fully certified. Is there an accreditation number or license number that I can confirm this degree is fully accredited with the MoE before enrolling?

Thanking you,

[Baytur]

You are making a big assumption--that there is a list of accredited BA programs. This list may, in fact, exist. It may not. If it does, then in 3 years I am certain our program will be on it. We have acted according to all rules regarding accreditation of programs.

I'm just looking for certainty in murky waters. I do not know how the MoE operates with regards to degree accreditation, I doubt many MoE and MoL employees do too, and if they look for accreditation with this brand new degree that they've never seen or even heard of before, I doubt telling them 'Oh Accreditation was applied for, they never responded so that legally makes it accredited, no sorry there are no documents issued by any body with regards to it, you'll just have to believe me officer Somcahi' is going to get you whatever stamp or WP you need, if such a situation arises.

I'm sure you can see the value that one official document from the MoE or CHE regarding the B.A would add to your course. Can you not get one? With such a document I'm sure your course would go from 20-30 students to 200 students!

Edited May 25, 2012 by Baytur

[brucetefl]

I will be genuinely interested to see if you get a response and what that response is.

I will try to get documentation. I have simply been working for to long on this to expect to receive anything quickly.

Edited May 25, 2012 by brucetefl

[Scott]

I think a lot of questions have been asked and answered. If you don't like the answer, so be it, but there are getting to be some rather personal remarks made that would be best left unsaid.

Please exercise care in your posts.

[Baytur]

I will try to get documentation.

Please keep us updated. Thanks.

[brucetefl]

I have a few updates:

As you can see from the attached file, all degree programs from an accredited Thai college or university are approved by the CHE.

And as you can see by the link here, Thongsook is indeed an accredited college.

http://www.nesothailand.org/dutch-organizations/local-education-system/copy_of_list-of-accredited-thai-universities

While I am going to try to get a letter from CHE similar to the attachment, I believe this completely puts this matter to rest.

As an aside, I hav enever heard back from our friends at Payup, even after sending him a message through this website.

[brucetefl]

Richard of Payup has contacted me. I am sure he can give us a few pointers.

[richard10365]

Hello Bruce and everyone. My apologies for not responding sooner. I've been a bit busy.

The original post asked for opinions about the program and based on the Thongsook website I gave my opinion. Much of my concerns about Thongsook comes from the Thongsook website. To me, the website is vague and if it were more specific we probably wouldn't be having this conversation. Most of my concerns and the concerns of others could easily be eliminated by updating the website. In fact, your enrollment might increase. Also, these are my opinions based on my experience alone.

About what I said,

• Accreditation by the Ministry of Education (MOE). It's not there.
  
  • ​State ran universities usually don't have to prove their are legit but the private ones should say something like "Thongsook International is fully accredited by the government of Thailand" or something like that. The statement "Thongsook College was established as a private institution of higher education" doesn't say that. It makes people question the value of the degree they will walk away with after they finish their studies. In fact, this is how this thread got started.
    

• Prerequisites to enroll are usually mentioned on university websites that are accredited. These prerequisites are the same all over Thailand. A high school diploma, M6 diploma, GED, or in the case of their Masters Degree, they should ask for a bachelors degree. I didn't see that either.
  
  • ​This is something I would look for to make sure the people who are studying higher education have actually completed the prerequisites to actually study there. Now I haven't looked at every university in Thailand but I am willing to bet on most them, the prerequisites are there. If prerequisites are not there it makes me think they will take anyone. Having prerequisites on a website adds a bit of legitimacy to the university and says we have basic standards. Once again, without it, it makes people wonder about the value of the degree you get from the university.
    

• The website say their MBA is not yet approved by the MOE.
  
  • ​This is very confusing to me and while it is terribly honest, it makes me think that this degree is not approved. So why should I study it? If it is approved, why have the statement there at all. If it's not approved, why list the MBA as a course? It's just confusing.
    

• Information about the teaching staff and their education and research credentials. Most accredited universities have something.
  
  • ​It would help to add a bit more about your educators and their research. This is more true for your graduate programs as mature students have more of a tendency to judge a program based on what they read about who is teaching it.
    

I do think that Thailand is an awesome country to study in. Perhaps going to the USA or the UK has it's benefits for Thai students, but foreign students learning a program such as International Business Management, using English as the medium of instruction, in a country where English is not the native language does provide incredible insight to concepts that students in the USA or UK could never imagine. Graduates from international programs in Thailand are more equipped to function internationally than most grads from the USA.

There are many different international programs in Thailand taught by many different universities. From the far south of Thailand to the middle in Bangkok and far north in Chiang Rai, these programs are only getting better as the outside ASEAN influence helps to create the conditions for positive change and clear direction for quality higher education. Thailand is changing and education along with it. I hope Thongsook prospers and does well in the future. There is more than 60 million people in Thailand and they all can't study at one university. Private and government, there is plenty of room for everyone. I hope in the future Thailand will have a reputation that students from around the world consider when searching for their higher education needs.

[brucetefl]

Thank you for your comments, Richard.

First of all, the wording on accreditation was a direct translation from the Thai website. For a foreigner, having the word "accredited" is probably better. In Thailand, if you say you were "established as an institute of higher education" that means CHE... accredited.

You make some good points. The website needs some improvements. But our international program has not even begun (with a start date of 2 June--dare I suggest that Payup website may have even been just as bad or even worse a few years back when you started running programs for the first time? Lets not make any sweeping generalizations based upon a website for a new program.

Edited May 26, 2012 by brucetefl

[richard10365]

Bruce, I do feel like I might have been too pessimistic about your school. I apologize and wish you the best of luck.

[phosphorescent]

The following is a copy of a post I wrote on thailandteaching.asia regarding this program.

After attending the open day at Thongsook yesterday, any concerns I had about the course were completely dispelled. Upon arrival I was greeted with large, professionally made banners around the campus containing the Thongsook logo and welcoming us to the college. I then met a faculty member who escorted me to a coffee shop on the campus where I met some other potential students and was given a free coffee of my choice(iced mocha). Just before 10am, a member of staff came and asked us to accompany him to the room where the the meeting was to be held.

It was a large air conditioned room with comfortable chairs that I believe even the most horizontally challenged among us had no problem fitting into. The initial impression I got from the other attendees was that they all seemed to be a friendly bunch of people, not only interested in gaining a piece of paper after three years but were also genuinely interested in acquiring new knowledge to aid them in the teaching profession.

There was a podium set up at the front of the room with a large screen projector on the wall and sofas facing us to the left and right of the podium where the dignitaries and speakers were seated. Bruce was the first speaker and introduced himself and the other dignitaries present, which included among others, the president of Thongsook and a number of board members, all of whom had masters degrees attained from western universities in America and Australia. Bruice began the presentation and outlined the course using a power point presentation. At the end of his presentation, he asked if we had any questions and, as I'm sure you can imagine, we had many. All of which were answered more than adequately.

Next, the president of Thongsook got up and spoke to us. The president assured us that this course was a joint project between the college and Bruce. She explained that it was very important to the college and along with her and Bruce, most members of the board had been heavily involved in this for a long time. She explained that this course is 100% accredited and recognized by the MOE in Thailand and she was personally involved in the process. She assured us that, no matter what may happen, they will guarantee that the course will be run in its entirety even if all but one student drops out during the three years. The president then gave us a chance to ask questions, which we did and again all of our questions were answered more than adequately. After the questions, the other members of the board spoke to us and were equally as impressive. I left feeling very good about everything and had absolutely no questions or concerns left unanswered.

In summary, I would have absolutely no hesitation in recommending this course to anyone. If anyone has genuine questions or concerns, please feel free to ask and I'll answer them to the best of my ability. If on the other hand people just want to criticize this program, don't expect a reply from me. I no longer feel the need to defend the program as I'm sure it will speak for itself over the coming years.

[brucetefl]

OK there is something in the works.

We have already discussed that this is a BA and NOT a B.Ed. But we are considering changing some of the courses to match those required by the TCT.

Namely:

Language and Technology for Teachers, (Already included as The NEW IT in the classroom class)

Curriculum Development, (already have Materials Development and it can be altered to meet this requirement?)

Learning Management,

Psychology for Teachers,

Educational Measurement and Evaluation

Classroom Management, (Already included)

Educational Research,

Educational Innovation & Information Technology,

Teacher Professionalism

So the current plan is to change the content slightly so that you will get 24 credit hours in the required classes to give you a waiver for the TKT!

Now this might be very COOL!

[skybluestu]

OK there is something in the works.

We have already discussed that this is a BA and NOT a B.Ed. But we are considering changing some of the courses to match those required by the TCT.

Namely:

Language and Technology for Teachers, (Already included as The NEW IT in the classroom class)

Curriculum Development, (already have Materials Development and it can be altered to meet this requirement?)

Learning Management,

Psychology for Teachers,

Educational Measurement and Evaluation

Classroom Management, (Already included)

Educational Research,

Educational Innovation & Information Technology,

Teacher Professionalism

So the current plan is to change the content slightly so that you will get 24 credit hours in the required classes to give you a waiver for the TKT!

Now this might be very COOL!

So even with the changes you'll still only be able to get a waiver from the TCT and not the actual TL? Why change the course then?

[aidenai]

So the current plan is to change the content slightly so that you will get 24 credit hours in the required classes to give you a waiver for the TKT!

Now this might be very COOL!

A waiver for the Teaching Knowledge Test (TKT) by Cambridge University, ESOL Examinations is of no use for the TCT Teacher License as the TKT isn't a requirement.

[jingjoe8]

Any follow updates on this course?

The first classes should have started by now?

Any tv members attending?

,i would be interested to hear some feed back on the course

[phosphorescent]

Any follow updates on this course?

The first classes should have started by now?

Any tv members attending?

,i would be interested to hear some feed back on the course

It's been great so far. Everyone has been very helpful and have no problems going the extra mile to assist us both academically and personally. I'm very impressed with the caliber and clarity of instructors so far and am really looking forward to the next few years of study. I'd happily recommend this course to anybody and am sure everyone else on the course would too.

[thequietman]

Any follow updates on this course?

The first classes should have started by now?

Any tv members attending?

,i would be interested to hear some feed back on the course

It's been great so far. Everyone has been very helpful and have no problems going the extra mile to assist us both academically and personally. I'm very impressed with the caliber and clarity of instructors so far and am really looking forward to the next few years of study. I'd happily recommend this course to anybody and am sure everyone else on the course would too.

Sorry to ask again but is this course and resultant degree approved by the thai ministry of education?

[phosphorescent]

^^Yes.

[jingjoe8]

Any follow updates on this course?

The first classes should have started by now?

Any tv members attending?

,i would be interested to hear some feed back on the course

It's been great so far. Everyone has been very helpful and have no problems going the extra mile to assist us both academically and personally. I'm very impressed with the caliber and clarity of instructors so far and am really looking forward to the next few years of study. I'd happily recommend this course to anybody and am sure everyone else on the course would too.

How many people on your course?

How many hours a week is required for the online lessons??

[Loaded]

why was the same thread deleted from ajarn?

[jingjoe8]

why was the same thread deleted from ajarn?

From what i have read,it was because the posters were walking a fine line of asking questions of a representative of thongsook and slandering him(which is illegal in thailand)

I hope the course is a success and is recognized by the moe,i for one would be interested in attending

[Loaded]

why was the same thread deleted from ajarn?

From what i have read,it was because the posters were walking a fine line of asking questions of a representative of thongsook and slandering him(which is illegal in thailand)

I hope the course is a success and is recognized by the moe,i for one would be interested in attending

Where did you read that?