A Visa Puzzler

[Pudgimelon]

OK, this one is a real puzzle.

My ex-girlfriend (from a looooong time ago) is coming to visit. She's a permanent resident in the States, and she's married and has three children, but she is not an American citizen.

All the info about permanent residents travelling abroad on the internet seems to assume that they still possess their home country's passport or can go to a consular office in the States to get one.

There's plenty of info about how a permanent resident needs to be careful about their paperwork so they can return to the States again without losing their green card (they have to get some sort of re-entry permit).

At least, that's what I think because there is no mention of how a permanent resident can get a "passport" or whatever in order to travel.

Problem is, my ex is from Laos, which doesn't have consular offices in the States, and she's a former refugee, so when she came to the States as a kid, she didn't have a passport.

So she's got zero chance of getting a Laos visa and she doesn't really want American citizenship either (required to get a US Passport).

So my question is: "How the heck does she travel anywhere?"

Is the "Re-entry Permit" a pseudo passport-like book that can hold visas? Will she have to apply for a Thai visa before coming? Or can she get the 30-day stamp at the airport like every other American?

Anyone else heard of Hmong refugees returning to Thailand? What did they have to do to come here?

[the scouser]

In the UK such people as you describe are issued by the British government with either "refugee" or "stateless" travel documents. These indicate the holder's readmissibility to the UK and are accepted by authorities around the world. I would think the American government issues much the same type of "passport". Indeed, I have a dim recollection of having professionally dealt with some Vietnamese, who were living in the US, travelling on such papers.

Scouse.

[the scouser]

The US State Dept. site indicates that the re-entry permit is a travel document into which visas for other countries can be placed. I would think that your ex, if travelling on such a document, would need a visa for Thailand.

Re-entry Permit: A travel document that the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) issues to lawful permanent residents (LPRs) who want to stay outside of the U.S. for more than one year and less than two years. LPRs who cannot get a passport from their country of nationality can also apply for a re-entry permit. You can put visas for foreign countries in a re-entry permit.

Scouse.

[solo siam]

Why wouldnt a Laos refugee want USA citizenship? Seems odd to me.

[Pudgimelon]

Why wouldnt a Laos refugee want USA citizenship?  Seems odd to me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

not everyone wants to be american. some people carry an attachment to their home countries, especially if that attachment is based on an idealized recollection of a childhood they never really had.

[sbk]

Fair enough, but seems more logical and certainly alot easier to have at least one passport. Tell her to contact the State department and see what kind of travel document they can give her. After that, she would most certainly need a visa since she seems to be a stateless person and visa regulations are applicable to countries citizens as a whole, not individuals.

[OldAsiaHand]

It seems to me there are two separate issues here.

Taking the second issue first, as to the matter of reentry into the US, a permanent resident does NOT need a reentry permit. The permanent residency card itself functions as a permanent visa for entry when the entrant presents his passport and the residency card.

Which brings up the second problem, and it seems to me that there are only two possibilities. Your friend cannot get a US passport without becoming a citizen. If she isn't going to become a citizen, she must look to the country of which she IS a citizen for her travel document. If the Laotian embassy will not recognize her citizenhip and grant her a passport, she is stateless and not eligible for an internationally recognized travel document. Countries only grant passports to their citizens. She must be (or become) a citizen somewhere to be eligible for a travel document.

[Axel]

If she really cannot get a Laotian passport but has right to stay in the US there could be a chance to apply for a Nansen-passport.

That thing is accepted by over 50 nations around the world as traveel document

but basically each and all want to see a visa.

Though, I am not sure if the USA will issue this, (I believe so) but I know a couple of people from Eujrope who travelled on one.

Basically, refugees until they did get natruralized in Europe.

[the scouser]

It seems to me there are two separate issues here.

Taking the second issue first, as to the matter of reentry into the US, a permanent resident does NOT need a reentry permit. The permanent residency card itself functions as a permanent visa for entry when the entrant presents his passport and the residency card.

Which brings up the second problem, and it seems to me that there are only two possibilities. Your friend cannot get a US passport without becoming a citizen. If she isn't going to become a citizen, she must look to the country of which she IS a citizen for her travel document. If the Laotian embassy will not recognize her citizenhip and grant her a passport, she is stateless and not eligible for an internationally recognized travel document. Countries only grant passports to their citizens. She must be (or become) a citizen somewhere to be eligible for a travel document.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I do hope your comments represent only your opinion rather than claimed fact, as they are misleading (albeit, I presume, unintentionally so).

It is a relatively common occurrence for people to find themselves stateless. For a variety of reasons they can't get a passport from their country of birth and can't/don't want to naturalise as a citizen of their host country. In such a situation, the host country DOES issue internationally recognised travel documents in order to facilitate travel. Such people are NOT prohibited from travelling solely by virtue of being stateless.

United States Citizenship and Immigration Services.

Scouse.

[OldAsiaHand]

I do hope your comments represent only your opinion rather than claimed fact, as they are misleading (albeit, I presume, unintentionally so)....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, they were not misleading.

The poster asked about a reentry permit being required for a permanent resident in the US. I told him one is not required. That is correct.

The poster also asked about obtaining a passport for his friend. Other than in a few very rare and unusual cases, and of course excepting the passport mills like Tonga, passports are issued only to citizens of the country issuing the passport. That is also correct.

I did not say that travel documents were never issued to stateless persons; however, as a general case, the US does not recognize those documents other than for one-way travel. They are not passports. That is also correct.

Your sophomoric sneering adds nothing to the attempts of various people here to assist the poster. However, I'm sure he is very grateful to you for providing a link to the US Immigration Service web site. That will no doubt be of great use to him.

[astral]

Why wouldnt a Laos refugee want USA citizenship?  Seems odd to me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

not everyone wants to be american. some people carry an attachment to their home countries, especially if that attachment is based on an idealized recollection of a childhood they never really had.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Whilst I can sympathise with not wanting to be American, I do not see that she has much choice?

[the gent]

Oh for goodness sakes, we all get things wrong from time to time. You screwed up.It doesn't matter as long as folk get good information in the end.

[the scouser]

I was going to respond on a point by point basis but have realised that I can't be arsed arguing the toss as, ultimately, it doesn't really matter. The OP can make the relevant enquiries of the US government.

And I used to think OAH was relatively sentient..........

Scouse.