Mass Transit System For Cm ?

[MESmith]

Roundabouts (traffic circles?) at large intersections, with short cycle traffic lights for use at peak periods. Keep the through traffic moving.

They just don't understand how roundabouts work yet. There's a pretty good sized one in front of the Royal Flora. The police have blocked access on one side and are directing traffic on the other. I just don't get it. If there were no police presence at all, everyone would figure it out for themselves soon enough.

Look back to when the underpasses were under construction on the superhighway & ring road. What we had then were, in effect, roundabouts. Traffic flowed. Now we have the underpasses, traffic flows under, but going the other way, eg Chotana road to Mae Rim, we have gridlock.

[MESmith]

How about opening up some of the meridians so you don't have to drive a mile out of your way to make a u-turn?

How about closing more of the u-turns & make life on the roads safer.

[thaimiller]

How about opening up some of the meridians so you don't have to drive a mile out of your way to make a u-turn?

How about closing more of the u-turns & make life on the roads safer.

Agreed

[uptheos]

Mass transit woks in BKK (big city) but I don't think it has any palce or value in CM.

The money would be better spent on other projects.

Good point, it seems that many people think Chiang Mai IS a big city.......goodness knows where they've been / lived before?

[Ricardo]

One of the mass-transit options being studied was for guided-buses, however this would have closed-off 50% of the lanes round the moat, and still resulted in diesel-fumes from the buses. Cheap to do, installing new curbs/lines on-the-roads with cheap shelters (loads of new retail-opportunities !) at stops/stations, leaving maximum cash left for filling brown-envelopes.

IMO the city needs to look well into the future, towards a city of 5 million people, and build some sort of electric light-rail Sky-Train network, above ground-level in the city-centre at least, although that will surely impact visually on the moat. Lines running out to the Airport/Ratchapruek/Night-Safari/Hang-Dong and to CMU/Zoo, and as far as the peripheral towns like Mae-Rim, Mae-Jo, Doi Saket (via the railway-station & Arcade bus-station), Sankampaeng.

This would tend to draw future-development outwards, reducing the inevitable growth of city-centre traffic, and making fortunes for the landowners along-the-way.

Perhaps the conflict with the tuk-tuk/song-thaew mafia might be managed, by creating new local-transport hubs at stations along the network, so they continue to make a reasonable-living, carrying passengers the last few km of their journeys ? Park-and-ride needed at all stations too.

Whatever is decided, this mass-transport project will be vastly-disruptive, whilst being built, and vastly-expensive due to the inevitable massive-corruption involved.

Hopefully it will be a non-starter, like the high-speed rail-network or the Lampang-Chiang Rai railway line or the Chinese heavy-freight China-to-Singapore line (although I believe that does stand some chance of being built eventually), and the powers-that-be will be content with the backhanders generated by more 'studies'.

Edited January 29, 2012 by Ricardo

[hellodolly]

One of the mass-transit options being studied was for guided-buses, however this would have closed-off 50% of the lanes round the moat, and still resulted in diesel-fumes from the buses. Cheap to do, installing new curbs/lines on-the-roads with cheap shelters (loads of new retail-opportunities !) at stops/stations, leaving maximum cash left for filling brown-envelopes.

IMO the city needs to look well into the future, towards a city of 5 million people, and build some sort of electric light-rail Sky-Train network, above ground-level in the city-centre at least, although that will surely impact visually on the moat. Lines running out to the Airport/Ratchapruek/Night-Safari/Hang-Dong and to CMU/Zoo, and as far as the peripheral towns like Mae-Rim, Mae-Jo, Doi Saket (via the railway-station & Arcade bus-station), Sankampaeng.

This would tend to draw future-development outwards, reducing the inevitable growth of city-centre traffic, and making fortunes for the landowners along-the-way.

Perhaps the conflict with the tuk-tuk/song-thaew mafia might be managed, by creating new local-transport hubs at stations along the network, so they continue to make a reasonable-living, carrying passengers the last few km of their journeys ? Park-and-ride needed at all stations too.

Whatever is decided, this mass-transport project will be vastly-disruptive, whilst being built, and vastly-expensive due to the inevitable massive-corruption involved.

Hopefully it will be a non-starter, like the high-speed rail-network or the Lampang-Chiang Rai railway line or the Chinese heavy-freight China-to-Singapore line (although I believe that does stand some chance of being built eventually), and the powers-that-be will be content with the backhanders generated by more 'studies'.

Agreed the city needs to look into the future. Most of the suggestions so far posted are geared to today's traffic.

This is not a item that should be approached with a short sighted solution.

For my money that is a waste of money.

Why solve a problem with a solution that will not work in five years.

Lets face reality we don't even know how many people are here in the area being discussed but we do know it is a growing number and bandages will not last for that long.

Admittedly there is ways to improve make today's problems tomorrows problems. Some of them will defiantly help the future problems such as the use of songtells, improved bus system and tuk tuk's but they will not solve the problem.

[martijn12345]

Chiang Mai does not need a subway / skytrain cause it's not that widely spread out. Besides that, look at the old town walls and think about drilling a tunnel under there...Affraid everything would collapse. Traffic has increased rapidly the last years in Chiang Mai and I think the people will simply need time to adjust to this. I see more and more Thais using their horns when others double park to grab a bite at one of the foodstalls along the moat. I see more and more Thai people wearing helmets on daily basis. With some fences the police changed the traffic in front of Airport Plaza the last few weeks, it makes things a lot better. I hope in time they will forbit foodstalls to be put up on the sides of busy road during rush hour so that lane could be used for driving in stead of parking to buy food. So both some changes made by law enforcement and a simple change of thinking of the locals would help a lot, but it's a process that is happening already but takes time. Let's be honest, BKK drivers are quite a lot sharper ( and with a much shorter fuse ) than Chiang Mai drivers. But as the city's traffic becomes more busy this will change.

Besides that I do agree it;s about time somebody would make a stand against songtaew maffia and for example started to enforce the already excisting laws on polution. I think the songtaews are a good and effective way of transporting people in this city as it has many narrow roads. But the polution they produce is absolutely unncessairy in 2012. Chiang Mai already has enough smog/smoke from other sources.

[Ricardo]

Don't think there's much left, maybe 20% if that, of the old city-walls ? Also I'd hesitate to use tunnels, when elevated-tracks would surely be cheaper, but they just don't look good.

How far the mass-transit should extend depends on whether you're planning for the city as-it-is, perhaps 4-5 miles across, or as it eventually will be in 50 years' time. Especially allowing for the likelihood that a mass-transit system will encourage development along the radial routes, rather than solely from the centre outwards.

If it were 10-20 years ago, and the old-city & buildings more-complete, then it might have made sense to follow the example of Ayuttaya, and build a whole new commercial-city slightly-away from the historic areas. But I guess its too late for that now.

Edited January 29, 2012 by Ricardo

[MESmith]

Chiang Mai doesn't need a mass transit system. What it does need is a proper bus network to try to get people out of their private motor vehicles & on to buses. For a decent bus network, you need roads that keep the traffic flowing. Also, on the arterial & ring roads, you need bus lanes. On a few roads the space is there for a bus lane. Unfortunately, it's used for parking. Hangdong road is 3 lanes each way. Authorities have to grow some balls, open the left, inside lane for buses only (but that requires policing), tell the businesses without off road parking that they're stuffed - not all businesses were so short sighted, tight fisted. Same on the ring roads. Some businesses seem to have some foresight, & provide off road parking, others don't. So it wont happen.

And you wont get people out of their own car, once they have it. Not worked in most cities worldwide, except for mega cities.

Edited January 29, 2012 by MESmith

[uptheos]

Chiang Mai doesn't need a mass transit system. What it does need is a proper bus network to try to get people out of their private motor vehicles & on to buses. For a decent bus network, you need roads that keep the traffic flowing.

Ever seen an ambulance with all lights flashing and sirens blaring, trying to get through a traffic jam?

No one moves.

Edited January 29, 2012 by uptheos

[elektrified]

Red trucks are fine IMO, they just need to get all of them to switch to LPG or CNG.

Why are there no Mocyc taxis in CNX ?

There are some. Not many though. I see them once in a while at Immigration. I saw a couple on the Hang Dong Road just a few days ago.

[Rinrada]

This has been on the cards for years but now that Mr T will soon be back as the main back room boy ..why not.He is a CM lad so why not...

A high speed line say from the Old airport (with a connection to the Loy K Rd area )extending down the improved superhighway 1317,passed all the new shopping centres that are being built,extending onwards via the Hollywood Film Studios and proposed New International Airport and perchance a terminal near the Highlands Golf Club...would be good.

Actually..??...that would be rather handy..

[cmsally]

Chiang Mai doesn't need a mass transit system. What it does need is a proper bus network to try to get people out of their private motor vehicles & on to buses. For a decent bus network, you need roads that keep the traffic flowing.

Ever seen an ambulance with all lights flashing and sirens blaring, trying to get through a traffic jam?

No one moves.

Boy does that one drive me crazy. But normally find if I lurch up the pavement people around me will follow. If they don't a few appropriate glares and hand signals will do the trick.

Strange though how they all evaporate at the sign of motorcade. Maybe ambulances should come with police escorts.

[cmsally]

Seeing as the canal road has just been marked out for a further 2 lanes of traffic south of Samoeng junction, it would seem unlikely that any other form of mass transit has been thought of along there. It seems they are just concentrating on the road. Followed one of those free Rachapruek buses the other day - seems they were shipped in from BKK, still says ... Soi 9 to Bang Khen on the back !!

I would have though there were some redundant CM buses to fill the gap but seems not!

[scorecard]

Chiang Mai doesn't need a mass transit system. What it does need is a proper bus network to try to get people out of their private motor vehicles & on to buses. For a decent bus network, you need roads that keep the traffic flowing. Also, on the arterial & ring roads, you need bus lanes. On a few roads the space is there for a bus lane. Unfortunately, it's used for parking. Hangdong road is 3 lanes each way. Authorities have to grow some balls, open the left, inside lane for buses only (but that requires policing), tell the businesses without off road parking that they're stuffed - not all businesses were so short sighted, tight fisted. Same on the ring roads. Some businesses seem to have some foresight, & provide off road parking, others don't. So it wont happen.

And you wont get people out of their own car, once they have it. Not worked in most cities worldwide, except for mega cities.

Here in CM I have heard numerous tales of Thais who get job offers / see job opportunities but they can't get to the location at anything like a reasonable cost, and for many Thais even tuk tuks are too expensive as a means of daily work transport.

CM does have a lot of winding roads and internal sois etc, and that's not likely to change. So designing a major standard bus route network to try to cover everybody would surely be quite difficult, plus there are already traffic jams and snarles all over CM.

I wonder whether a light rail, similar to the one in Kuala Lumpur would be more suitable. The overhead construction is much simpler compared to the Bkk Skytrain, and therefore much cheaper. And the 'trains' appear to use much simpler technology, again less expensive in initial set-up.

In KL it's well patronized because it works and it's very cheap, and on most lines there is just a few minutes between each 'train'. And KL is making progress with corordinating ground transport from each light rail station with small buses etc.

As already said, in Thailand getting people out of their cars is quite a challenge, on the other hand there are still a lot of CM folks who don't have cars and desperately need some sort of well coordinated transport system with comprehensive coverage.

Until a large percentage of Thais have a much better income, I believe public transport should be subsidized as one small contribution to sharing the wealth, and to keep the city moving, get people to workplaces more speedily, helping to build productivity, etc.

[uptheos]

Strange though how they all evaporate at the sign of motorcade. Maybe ambulances should come with police escorts.

Absolutely right and demonstrates clearly the Thai hierarchical ladder.

Motorcade with someone important or rich = get out of the way quick.

Ambulance with person having heart attack or stroke = not my problem

[el jefe]

I for one don't think we need a mass transit system here.

I don't have any problem getting around. I know when not to drive my car and when to use my motorcycle. Or when it's benefical to take a song theaw.

And yes, their are motorcycle taxis in CM, I use them sometimes. Their just not in town. Song theaws, tuk tuk's, motorcycle taxi's, meter taxi's, buses, walking or your private car, motorcycle or bicycle. If you can't get to where your going with all that, Just stay home...

Mass transit woks in BKK (big city) but I don't think it has any palce or value in CM.

The money would be better spent on other projects.

Well said and spot on, HighonThai.

CM is a small city with 1/20th the population of Bangkok.

CM's road system has room for an almost unlimited number of motorbikes. With a small increase in 4-wheeled vehicles, traffic comes to a standstill. Anyone who is complaining about the traffic is part of the problem.

[el jefe]

How about opening up some of the meridians so you don't have to drive a mile out of your way to make a u-turn?

How about closing more of the u-turns & make life on the roads safer.

well, I guess we don't agree on everything, HighonThai.

imho, Mr Smith is right. cars waiting to make U-turns create traffic and dangerous situations.

[bangkok blue]

Traffic has most definately got worse over the last 7-8 years! Something needs to be done. Far more cars than there were before. Could operate a tram service running over the moat around the old town into the new town. Songtows do work well, but they also add to the traffic congestion. Agreed though, nothing will happen as tul tuk and sontow drivers will kick off! One option would be to offer work on any new tram service to some of these drivers.

[Ricardo]

This has been on the cards for years but now that Mr T will soon be back as the main back room boy ..why not.He is a CM lad so why not...

He already got us the underpasses, and all the improvements to the current (entirely adequate for the next 50 years) airport, and our wonderful Night-Safari, then there's the prospect of a casino-license, enough already !

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Traffic has most definately got worse over the last 7-8 years! Something needs to be done.

Something IS being done. You need to zoom out of your time-frame of reference. My commute to the office (plm. 15 kms) is quicker now than it was 8 years ago. When driving downtown I also don't have much trouble.

Remember the time without ring roads, no tunnels, no Nong Hoy flyover, No railroad flyover and no Airport flyover? (though that one turned out a bit weird.) The Canal Road wasn't a 6 lane separated highway, it was just like the bit South of the Samoeng Intersection now. The railroad crossing on Aom Muang used to be a level crossing, and very badly lit at night; rush-hour trains caused insane jams, to the point that I really tried to not get stuck there when the main BKK bound trains went by. These days.. you hardly even notice the trains.

It's only when trying to cross straight through town in the CMU/Nimmanhaemin area that I really notice that something needs to be done there, too. (Most likely involving the intersections of the Canal Road with Huay Kaew and Suthep, and Rincome intersection and Nimman/Suthep Intersection, and turning Wing 41 into a public highway with a better connection to both Aom Muang and the Hang Dong road.

That's about it.

Edited January 30, 2012 by WinnieTheKhwai

[Sparkles]

And according to recent statistics an average of 1200 new vehicles day a day hit the roads of Thailand .Add the Governments policy of encouraging people who can't afford to buy a new car providing a financial kickback, coming into the market, and what do you have ? In the 3 years we have been here the traffic is far heavier and you wont get many argurments on that from most road users.

[lannarebirth]

This has been on the cards for years but now that Mr T will soon be back as the main back room boy ..why not.He is a CM lad so why not...

He already got us the underpasses, and all the improvements to the current (entirely adequate for the next 50 years) airport, and our wonderful Night-Safari, then there's the prospect of a casino-license, enough already !

Trust me, judging from prior posts, he won't get the fact that you're making fun of him.