The No Health Insurance Option

[Card]

An excellent topic and I agree that when you reach 60+ you are generally a no no so self funding is the way to go, the bonus being that if you died in your sleep and did not need it you can leave to someone else which is a big plus.

The health Insurance I have seen here look expensive and dont seem to cover the likely cost and as mentioned when you become a bad risk age off you go and thanks for the money.

The amounts you are suggesting are IMHO ok, most people think you might have just one emergency, might be more who knows. Now getting the cost of operations is not easy to tie down but I was told last year that a heart by-pass operation outside of Bangkok was 1.5m bts so the figure the OP is thinking about is ok, prices will have gone up so it needs to be taken into consideration.

I think to many here are on a hope nothing happens to me mindset. It is prudent to to put something on one side for a rainy day, time may not allow you to get back to the homebase for a quick fix which is free.

In Bumrungrad, the package for bypass surgery appears to be about 500,000 baht with some add-ons:

http://www.bumrungrad.com/en/heart-treatment-surgery-thailand/cabg-coronary-artery-bypass-graft-1-1

[Card]

_{Being 62, very healthy, I regularly tussle with this question as I don't really know how to handle or like the questions asked on the form ("have you ever had any faint indication that there might be even the slightest thing wrong with you!"). I'm currently looking at just paying for Personal Accident Insurance as accidents are most likely to cause me grief, esp traffic ones. I'm reasonably comfortable enough to pay for the rest and I live a healthy life style and get regular check-ups.}

_{I just have a couple of points:}

_{1. I think it is better to spend the cash you save by self-financing on monitoring ie. health checkups - both in their regularity and their intensity. Then u can focus on any single health problem that crops up before it gets serious.}

_{2. Can u trust Thai health insurance companies to pay up, or even stay solvent when u need them? My Thai partner recommends international ones like Bupa, Chartis, AIA, rather the Thai ones.}

[zziffle]

In Bumrungrad, the package for bypass surgery appears to be about 500,000 baht with some add-ons:

And then there's always the fine print. I notice the bottom of the page lists eligibility exclusions, one of them being over 65. I can't find a price for old farts (not that I am one, yet).

[canopus1969]

_{Being 62, very healthy, I regularly tussle with this question as I don't really know how to handle or like the questions asked on the form ("have you ever had any faint indication that there might be even the slightest thing wrong with you!"). I'm currently looking at just paying for Personal Accident Insurance as accidents are most likely to cause me grief, esp traffic ones. I'm reasonably comfortable enough to pay for the rest and I live a healthy life style and get regular check-ups.}

_{I just have a couple of points:}

_{1. I think it is better to spend the cash you save by self-financing on monitoring ie. health checkups - both in their regularity and their intensity. Then u can focus on any single health problem that crops up before it gets serious.}

_{2. Can u trust Thai health insurance companies to pay up, or even stay solvent when u need them? My Thai partner recommends international ones like Bupa, Chartis, AIA, rather the Thai ones.}

A problem here with your wife's thinking - all these companies are Thai not International ! They may have International companies behind them to a greater or lesser extent but that means nothing in Thailand when they come to deal with claims.

[georgec77]

A very well known doctor in BKK told a friend of mine that there is a way for expats to be covered as Thai people are after a certain age. He just told him he needed to look into it but did not elaborate. Does anyone know what he could be talking about?

[mca]

Something that has been pointed out on here before (credit to Heng) is that it is still worth having some kind of insurance active for the sake of an active indicator (current insurance card) that you are solvent for health costs in the event you have an accident or a medical incident that leaves you unconscious and unaccompanied when discovered by rescuers or ambulance. In that case, it is better to have an insurance card that makes you look as if you will not be financially risky, rather than a note (as Heng colourfully put it) saying 'trust me, I'm good for it'. Otherwise your admission and treatment- which may be critically required- may be delayed.

This is my way of thinking.Unfortunately due to an existing medical condition I've had for years I'm rejected for medical insurance as a matter of course but I've got an all singing all dancing accident insurance card in my wallet along with 2 credit cards that would hopefully stop me from being turned away and denied treatment at a hospital should the unthinkable happen and I needed treatment without my spouse present and I'm unable to handle the situation myself due to being incapacitated or the like.

Better than them going through my pockets and finding some lint and a couple of 7-11 receipts.

[Jingthing]

I have been looking at this from Kasikorn Bank.

http://www.kasikornb...s/Senior_1.aspx

Interesting offer.

However, I don't actually understand this statement and it seems vital to the entire value of this insurance:

Main Exclusion : - Injury or sickness including the complications that occurred during 5 years prior the effective date

of this health policy and have no any treatment or diagnosis by a physician

Maybe I'm dense, but I find that language incredibly (intentionally?) VAGUE. If someone here thinks you fully understand it, perhaps with experience in such insurance matters, can you SPELL OUT exactly what that means as if talking to a ten year old?

.

[Jingthing]

Bumping this. Can someone who understands both insurance-speak and bad English translate this:

Main Exclusion : - Injury or sickness including the complications that occurred during 5 years prior the effective date

of this health policy and have no any treatment or diagnosis by a physician

It seems to me that depending on EXACTLY what this sentence means or doesn't mean could make the difference on whether the K-bank insurance scheme is worthless or has some value.

Edited July 18, 2012 by Jingthing

[Backwoods]

I am 58 also, and lucky enough to be covered by insurance from uncle sam! I had to have a ICD replaced,(Pacemaker/defibulater), cost of ICD alone is over 500,000. Three months later had to go back because of puss and Pacemaker stick out of my chest from staff infection, and of course they had to remove it and the wires this time, which left about a 2 in diamiter hole they had to make sure had no more infecction and then close. While all this was going on I wnt into congestive heart failure and woke up in CCU, tubes in nose mouth and catheter, after all was healed enough they sent me back to a normal room and sewed up my hole, 20 days, and over half of it it CCU. Now of course they still need to place another ICD in me, a 500,000 kickstarter and another 5 days in hospitals. If no insurnce, I would be dead. Now having my back worked on by ortho doctor and was at every 2 weeks for a while, now at a month, plus my meds that cost almost 9000 per month. Makes a good story and example to have insurance!

[madmitch]

Bumping this. Can someone who understands both insurance-speak and bad English translate this:

Main Exclusion : - Injury or sickness including the complications that occurred during 5 years prior the effective date

of this health policy and have no any treatment or diagnosis by a physician

It seems to me that depending on EXACTLY what this sentence means or doesn't mean could make the difference on whether the K-bank insurance scheme is worthless or has some value.

I speak English and worked on insurance policy wordings for many years but this has me defeated.

I think they are trying to say that the policy will not pay a claim for any illness that may relate to any condition you have suffered in the five years prior to the inception of the policy, whether you have had treatment for it or not.

But I am not sure.

In Thailand, it's the Thai wording that takes precedence so try to get a good translation from someone fluent in both languages. Looks like the company have used GoogleTranslate!

[nocturn]

The only hole i can see in the OPS theory is if he ever wants or need repatriation.

you can blow through some heavy money if for some reason you need to be flown "home"

[Jingthing]

Bumping this. Can someone who understands both insurance-speak and bad English translate this:

Main Exclusion : - Injury or sickness including the complications that occurred during 5 years prior the effective date

of this health policy and have no any treatment or diagnosis by a physician

It seems to me that depending on EXACTLY what this sentence means or doesn't mean could make the difference on whether the K-bank insurance scheme is worthless or has some value.

I speak English and worked on insurance policy wordings for many years but this has me defeated.

I think they are trying to say that the policy will not pay a claim for any illness that may relate to any condition you have suffered in the five years prior to the inception of the policy, whether you have had treatment for it or not.

But I am not sure.

In Thailand, it's the Thai wording that takes precedence so try to get a good translation from someone fluent in both languages. Looks like the company have used GoogleTranslate!

Thanks for the attempt and the confirmation that the English was out there. So if you're correct, does that mean for example if you are on blood pressure meds (and have been for five years) that it wouldn't cover anything "related" to that such as heart disease or stroke for the entire life of the policy?

[madmitch]

Bumping this. Can someone who understands both insurance-speak and bad English translate this:

Main Exclusion : - Injury or sickness including the complications that occurred during 5 years prior the effective date

of this health policy and have no any treatment or diagnosis by a physician

It seems to me that depending on EXACTLY what this sentence means or doesn't mean could make the difference on whether the K-bank insurance scheme is worthless or has some value.

I speak English and worked on insurance policy wordings for many years but this has me defeated.

I think they are trying to say that the policy will not pay a claim for any illness that may relate to any condition you have suffered in the five years prior to the inception of the policy, whether you have had treatment for it or not.

But I am not sure.

In Thailand, it's the Thai wording that takes precedence so try to get a good translation from someone fluent in both languages. Looks like the company have used GoogleTranslate!

Thanks for the attempt and the confirmation that the English was out there. So if you're correct, does that mean for example if you are on blood pressure meds (and have been for five years) that it wouldn't cover anything "related" to that such as heart disease or stroke for the entire life of the policy?

Unless you can get the underwriters to agree otherwise, and you'll find underwriting in Thailand is pretty inflexible, the the answer is probably yes, unless it can be proven that the heart disease/stroke etc was not connected to the blood pressure issue which may not be easy.

A more flexible, imaginative underwriter may take into account that the tablets control your blood pressure therefore the risk of a heart attack or stroke is actually diminished, subject to a letter from you doctor, and may cover you at an additional premium with a co-insurance. But health companies are notoriously inflexible, and I would say through a bank you would have even less chance of getting terms and conditions amended.

My daughter was born with a hole in the heart which is filling as her muscle grows with no problems, but she could potentially have a cardiac exclusion clause on her policy for her entire life. I'm hoping to get an all-clear letter at her next annual check-up and hopefully will get the exclusion removed but I am not 100% sure I'll be able to persuade the underwriters to do it.

[Mobaan]

Do the insurance companies talk to each other-or is there some sort of central information bank in Thailand ?

This gets to the question of pre existing conditions. If a person (Thai) had medical care and/or a hospital stay in one part of the country and now , many years later lives in another part of Thailand and now wants to apply for healthinsurance coverage. The potential insurer will want to have a health report dine by a doctor or hospital , which is fine .

The question is : does the insurance company have any way and means to find out about previous hospital stays (if any ) ,just in case those visits were not mentioned on the insurance application?

[stevenl]

Do the insurance companies talk to each other-or is there some sort of central information bank in Thailand ?

This gets to the question of pre existing conditions. If a person (Thai) had medical care and/or a hospital stay in one part of the country and now , many years later lives in another part of Thailand and now wants to apply for healthinsurance coverage. The potential insurer will want to have a health report dine by a doctor or hospital , which is fine .

The question is : does the insurance company have any way and means to find out about previous hospital stays (if any ) ,just in case those visits were not mentioned on the insurance application?

This will come out at any kind of hospital treatment, at which point the policy bought and paid for will be void. Don't even consider things like that.

[apetley]

A very well known doctor in BKK told a friend of mine that there is a way for expats to be covered as Thai people are after a certain age. He just told him he needed to look into it but did not elaborate. Does anyone know what he could be talking about?

If you are listed in a Taabian Baan, house book, you qualify for the Govt health care scheme.

Sent from my GT-I9003 using Thaivisa Connect App

[Khonwan]

I believe you are wrong, Apetley. Some of us (me included) do receive free treatment under the Universal Healthcare Scheme (the old Bt30 scheme) since we have the yellow book but that’s only because of a misinterpretation of the regulations in a very few provinces.

[meatballs]

You can also waste money on the lottery. Same lousy deal.

I don't have any insurance. If I need to I'll pay in cash when the need arises.

[negreanu]

I don't have any insurance. If I need to I'll pay in cash when the need arises.

Huge cash involved in for example cancer treatment.

1. Surgery

2. Radiotherapy

3. Recurring Chemo

Can run into US$100,000+ very very quickly...

Perhaps better to pay that $200.00 a month or thereabouts for cover than lose a fair chunk of your savings.

Edited August 10, 2012 by negreanu

[SkyRider]

I don't have any insurance. If I need to I'll pay in cash when the need arises.

Huge cash involved in for example cancer treatment.

1. Surgery

2. Radiotherapy

3. Recurring Chemo

Can run into US$100,000+ very very quickly...

Perhaps better to pay that $200.00 a month or thereabouts for cover than lose a fair chunk of your savings.

Can you please make a recommendation where I might be able to get insurance for $200 a month? Thank you.

[negreanu]

Bupa Platinum3 bupa.co.th

[apetley]

I believe you are wrong, Apetley. Some of us (me included) do receive free treatment under the Universal Healthcare Scheme (the old Bt30 scheme) since we have the yellow book but that’s only because of a misinterpretation of the regulations in a very few provinces.

I queried being issued the card when it was delivered to my house shortly after I applied for my yellow house book.

I was told it was because of an entitlement due anyone listed in the taabian baan whether Thai or foreigner. Before it was issued they consulted their rulebook and double checked with head office in Bangkok.

They also said it was a rule introduced about 10 years ago by Taksin as part of his universal healthcare pledge.

Sent from my GT-I9003 using Thaivisa Connect App

[citizen33]

Unfortunately (for us) Khonwan is correct.

http://www.nhso.go.t...28334741250.pdf

There are rumours that people in the MoPH and NHSO are reconsidering the position of foreigners. I'm not sure how far things may move, but my guess is that there could be a guarantee of emergency care for all.

I believe you are wrong, Apetley. Some of us (me included) do receive free treatment under the Universal Healthcare Scheme (the old Bt30 scheme) since we have the yellow book but that's only because of a misinterpretation of the regulations in a very few provinces.

I queried being issued the card when it was delivered to my house shortly after I applied for my yellow house book.

I was told it was because of an entitlement due anyone listed in the taabian baan whether Thai or foreigner. Before it was issued they consulted their rulebook and double checked with head office in Bangkok.

They also said it was a rule introduced about 10 years ago by Taksin as part of his universal healthcare pledge.

Sent from my GT-I9003 using Thaivisa Connect App

Edited September 17, 2012 by citizen33

[liberty9133]

I am 68. I have done some research on health care. there are some few questions maybe some of you could answer.

I understand that if you marry a Thai you get the wife's coverage also. THen again I have been told that only applies if her employer allows it . In the case of government workers it appears that one is automatically covered.

Is any of this true?

[kaliYUGA]

Thank you for your useful insights on this thread, much appreciated!

[apetley]

Unfortunately (for us) Khonwan is correct.

http://www.nhso.go.t...28334741250.pdf

There are rumours that people in the MoPH and NHSO are reconsidering the position of foreigners. I'm not sure how far things may move, but my guess is that there could be a guarantee of emergency care for all.

I believe you are wrong, Apetley. Some of us (me included) do receive free treatment under the Universal Healthcare Scheme (the old Bt30 scheme) since we have the yellow book but that's only because of a misinterpretation of the regulations in a very few provinces.

I queried being issued the card when it was delivered to my house shortly after I applied for my yellow house book.

I was told it was because of an entitlement due anyone listed in the taabian baan whether Thai or foreigner. Before it was issued they consulted their rulebook and double checked with head office in Bangkok.

They also said it was a rule introduced about 10 years ago by Taksin as part of his universal healthcare pledge.

Sent from my GT-I9003 using Thaivisa Connect App

After reading the pdf I queried the info at my local healthcare office when I recently needed a booster injection there. They said yes there is a universal card now for Thais but also that I was entitled to free govt healthcare too. Maybe they are wrong, maybe they are right but they also showed my wife my personal record on the database so it appears I am in the system.

I'd also like to point out that I have my own personal insurance too.

[TommoPhysicist]

I am 68. I have done some research on health care. there are some few questions maybe some of you could answer.

I understand that if you marry a Thai you get the wife's coverage also. THen again I have been told that only applies if her employer allows it . In the case of government workers it appears that one is automatically covered.

Is any of this true?

Thai government employees have health-care provided for their parents, spouse and children.

No matter what nationality.

[BSJ]

If your going to seed a fund for medical emergencies, don't put the money in a Thai bank as they will take 15% of the interest you earn. And the interest isn't all that good compared to what my money in Australia earns. I am getting 3.3% at CIMB on a 7 month term. Back in Oz I am getting 5.25% in an at call account. And I don't loose any money in tax I can't claim back!

[canopus1969]

If your going to seed a fund for medical emergencies, don't put the money in a Thai bank as they will take 15% of the interest you earn. And the interest isn't all that good compared to what my money in Australia earns. I am getting 3.3% at CIMB on a 7 month term. Back in Oz I am getting 5.25% in an at call account. And I don't loose any money in tax I can't claim back!

But then you are gambling on currency fluctuations e.g. in the past year the AUS$ has gone from 0.034 to 0.0299 so depending on when one converted and subsequently repatriated one could have lost out – and then there are the bank fees ……………………..

[isawasnake]

I am just going to add my "plan" and possible outcomes, as far as i'm concerned anyway.

My "insurance plan" is a US based credit card. People can throw some scenarios at me, and i may respond how i think it would play out.

I saw somebody mention cancer. Well, depending on how bad it is, the card would cover it, and to be honest, i'm not going to worry too much how things play out afterwards. I have cancer for christ sakes.