Thai Army Has Veto Power Over Key Issues: Robert Amsterdam

[hellodolly]

This is from Wikipedia, so is not necessarily authoritative or objective. Please use your own best judgment:

RA Blogging activity

Amsterdam has two official blogs listed on Amsterdam & Peroff’s website:^[20] and.^[21]Amsterdam has published more than 5,000 original articles on his main blog and many legal blogs have cited his ^[22]" The prestigious blog "Siberian Light has ranked ^[23]" as one of the "Top 5 Russia blogs."^[24] Amsterdam's blog was also a finalist in the 2007 Weblog Awards.^[25]Among the various publications mentioning Mr. Amsterdam's achievements, a recent article published on the legal circuit quoted colleague lawyers stating that Amsterdam's blogging and lobbying activities are an example demonstrating legal and ethical obligations to clients.^[26]Amsterdam is known to use Blogs as a platform for sharing his cause with internet readers. He is well verse with gorilla [guerrilla, sic] marketing and getting his clients point across the web in a short amount of time. K Social Media Consulting LLC ^[27] is a company that runs full scale media campaigns for clients. Amsterdam employs this company to establish a strong presence in the online community to support his clients cause. Although Robert Amsterdam champions free speech, many people have raised concerns when they try to post comments on his Blog that does not support Mr. Amsterdam's view. Internet readers have repetitively said that their comments were never posted or simply deleted on Amsterdam's blogs.

I notice it says nothing about his honesty just that he can promote and t doesn't have to be a honest point of view for him to promote.

[Roadman]

So you are saying it's fine to have an unaccountable military, with the right to stage a coup whenever their economic/personal power is threatened. It's fine to have a military who appear to at least tolerate freelance drug trafficking and timber extraction by its personnel, who are implicated in the recent murder of Chinese sailors/drug traffickers, who have a brutal way of dealing with Burmese migrants, who have a "robust", bordering on extra-judicial, style of crowd control as seen in April 2010 and May 1992.

All this and more because the ruling political party chosen by the majority of voters (given the vote-rigging and general vote-buying of course) needs to be "kept in check".

I'm no Thaksin or any other politico's apologist but simply someone who sees no place for a military in running a country. It's bad for the country, its people and ironically even bad for the military as can be seen in their inept performance in the southern provinces, the spate of helicopter accidents and the farce of recent hardware shopping.

It's not fine to have an unaccountable military, but if you think that would change under Thaksin (or the current government), I think you would be sorely mistaken.

The government doesn't need to have control over military appointments to stop coups, drug trafficking, etc. They need to enact laws and make sure they are enforced.

And until the majority of people also agree that it is utterly wrong for the military to have run the country for the last 80 years it will not change. I do fully understand that current politicians lack the means or the desire to change the status quo, but as events in Egypt and elsewhere have shown in the last 12 months once yo p**s off enough people change will come. Sadly if you get on the wrong side of history it can be unpleasant, and the longer an unaccountable power base is allowed to remain the messier its removal becomes for all parties involved.

Your opening statement is incorrect. The Thai Army under the command of this and the previous General does not take action when "their economic/personal power is threatened". Those days are gone.They only two times they have taken action this millineum is when the convicted criminal scum Thaksin was about to step beyond the democratic process to one of populist control in 2006 and when the same piece of scum attacked Thailand and the Thai Army in an act of war in the streets of Bangkok in 2010. In both cases in any western democracy force would have been used to the same extent the difference being in the first instance it would be the police as the law force on behalf of the public. Given that the police in Thailand are crooked and even more bent than the Army and are in the pocket of the convicted criminal scum Thaksin then the Army is the upholder of the law in Thailand. Is it ideal? Of course it bloody is not. Do the Army have faults? Of course they do. So do the pack of thievies, convicted criminals, murderers, and general scum that are currently running this country.

Nowhere do I see the current Thai Army running the country along the lines of the examples that you and other posters have put up (Burma). The only time they had power in 2006 after moving the governance back to a democratic process they were quick to happily give it back and even then to more of the convicted criminal Thaksins cronies. If you bothered to read the statements given by the current and previous Army Generals it is very clear to see that their bottom line intent is to provide a platform in Thailand for the democratic process to take hold. All their actions over the last 6 years or so have backed that up. Even look now at this bunch of scum that are leading the country and the Army is staying out of governance and allowing them to make their mess.

The message from the Army is clear to Pheu Thai. Destroy the country economically if you are that incredibily incompentent but do it within democratic process and they will stay on the side line. Cross the line and the Army will step back in to recorrect back to the democratic process. Given the corruption within Thailand, the police force incompentence and the convicted criminal Thaksins complete disregard for the law then the best thing about Thailand right now is the Army on the sideline as the law. A democratic process would be great but that sits hand in hand with another process that Thaksin and the rest of his thievies have no regard for - the law.

Long may the Thai Army be there to uphold that law until such time (if ever) that Thailand's political parties can learn what responsible democratic governance is. This lot in there now sure as hell don't.

Edited February 7, 2012 by Roadman

[rubl]

A Robert A. opinion piece and no-one yet to complain about the drivel theNation tends to publish? Well phrased drivel, I must admit, Robert A. has a way with word.

[longway]

"..........asserting that the numbers voting for them (PTP) would increase if an election was called tomorrow or that the voters are even more solidly behind the governement is just speculation on your part.

But I stand firmly behind this speculation.

Let's save this message and talk again after the next election.

I ask you again:

Was the country more democratic in 2001 or in 2005? If the military and especially 'etc' were so anti democratic as claimed, can you name another country in SE asia that had a more free press or was more democratic in 2001? Why were there no coups between 1992 and 2006?

[bigbamboo]

Rather than discuss Mr. Amsterdam, how about some attention be given to his statement. Do people agree or disagree with this;

The Yingluck administration is not fully in charge of this country. We all know it. We all know the Army has a veto over what happens here. Let's not pretend. And therefore I understand that were this government to [sack General Prayuth], it would be removed militarily without hesitation," he said. Nevertheless he wished Prayuth could be removed

I agree with him. The military is still calling the plays and that is why there cannot be any progress on key issues such as corruption.

Do you really believe that if you removed the army from the equation that the current administration would become less corrupt ?

I beg to differ sir, I think it would be open season on the nations assets.

If we accept the general view in Thailand that Thaksin is running the country and already having relatives running the government and the police then putting another in charge of the military would enable him to control everything to such an extent he could eradicate corruption in the kingdom in no time, along with drugs, flooding, traffic jams, gambling, the mafia, soi dogs, rubbish burning, illegal logging, prostitution, even jet ski scams and Thailand would be a land of never ending smiles again.

Edited February 7, 2012 by bigbamboo

[steveromagnino]

no comment.

The ultimate spin doctor.

At least we know now why this government is so useless in everything they have done. Obviously it is the army's fault.

Edited February 7, 2012 by steveromagnino

[Unkomoncents]

It's interesting to see how many people, despite probably having lived in Thailand for at least some period, seem so content to blame one party over the other: "It's Thaksin!" "No, it's the military." This when anyone who's lived and worked in Thailand for any period could tell you that power and power-sharing in Thailand is incredibly fractured and informalized. Often, personal characteristics having nothing to do with the requirements or purpose of the job decide a candidate's suitability. The people with the 'President' or other generic boss placard, be it in a school, business or government office, are often beholden to interests and traditions that completely constrain their hands in management. While I could not claim to understand how this power works in the Thai government, it seems fairly clear that the status-quo is what we have today: an uneasy, unspoken power-sharing agreement between the government (pro-Thaksin and anti-Thaksin, but mostly pro-) and military (anti-Thaksin), with the 'third institution' (if you will), and the most powerful, as an 'influence' and 'guiding, moral force' behind much of what happens in the earthly realm that we populate. The latter element is probably THE factor that prevents the military from doing what it would like to do, which is run public relations campaigns for itself and govern, forcibly, from behind the scenes. If I see any parallels with the Thai military, it is from China, which is a country especially keen on bi-lateral (instead of multi-lateral) international relations and the informal wielding of power and influence. I don't think, however, that we can assume the military is flat-out 'running things' and that it isn't beholden to the same traditions and orthodoxies that constrain other other two elements of Thai power. This is one of the major reason that the country has so frequently bungled recovery operations after disasters; no one know who is boss because offense may be caused by the 'youngest executive' merely LOOKING too aggressive amongst his/her older cohorts.

[Mosha]

He also has no clue about Thailand, which he clearly proved in all his previous statements as a paid Thaksin lobbyist

A huge swath of the Thai electorate, in fact the majority, would beg to differ with that.

This article demonstrates that he knows very well what is going on behind the scenes.

48% isn't the majority

[pimay11]

The question here is why anyone should pay any attention to a man who is hired by the opposition to run noise for them.

Mister Amsterdam, when you have a government that is being run by the Shinawatra family, its extended family including the Damapongs, friends and other crony assiciates of your clients, you do not have democracy.

If this sorry collection of paid individuals performed well for the country in a matter, say, similar to Singapore then that could possibly be overlooked. But it doesn't.

If the cabinet had performed from the kick-off, we wouldn't have had all these changes (more cronies) but they screwed up whatever they touched. Flooding and post-flood are still disasters. The heros here were the army.

So in a world with minsiters every 5 minutes you want the defense of the country in the same basket? Another man with Shinawatra DNA? Maybe someone with Zimbabwean roots?

Methinks you and your employers are after the crown jewels Mister Amsterdam

Either you are new to Thailand and don't have a clue or you are trying to be funny. There is no way you believe this crap that you posted. "How the flood was handled was exemplary". Sure they were with a guy that sold lion, tiger and elephant meat at a restaurant on the staff to controll the floods.

• Like him or not, he represents the views of a huge electoral block in the country, those responsible for electing Ms. Y. and co. That is why one should pay attention.
  
• In spite of all the electoral faults of Thailand, this Govt. was elected, and is Democratic as a result. For Thailand, this is pretty good.
  
• This collection of individuals were elected in as fair an election as Thailand can muster.
  
• Political appointees after an election are not cronies, but appointees by those who were elected by the people. Next time Abhi. and Co. win an election, they will also appoint people of their own kind - not cronies.
  
• But those "crown jewels" won an election and were the choice to govern thailand by a majority of the governed.
  
• How the flood was handled was exemplary when compared to how other nations and leaders handled their disasters. Whenever one is inclined to criticise this Govts. handling of the flood disaster, I always ask the question, "which nation and leader did better?' I have never received an answer to that question.
  

[folium]

Now after the floods all has changed and the Army was always there to help Thaskin was no where to be seen

Nothing has changed

The army was there to help, and they had better have been.

To try and equate a salaried state entity, conducting state assigned duties, while accumulating pensionable service,.......... with volunteerism is incorrect.

The UDD/Red Shirts singlehandedly did more than any other organized force in the country, to provide flood assistance to BKK.

I was personally wittness to seven (7) trips to Bangkok, involving sixteen (16) truckloads of stuff. Not pick-ups, but dumptruck equivelants.

The operation at Don Muang was excellent, in spite of the Opposition trying to use it to denigrate the Govt, with their incessant FROC-flogging.

To say that a non-volunteer force did everything and volunteerism did nothing, is a gross indecency.

lol utter factless crap

This poster is entitled to his useless propaganda in favour of Mr. Amsterdam. this man is a highly paid overweight, and will always be on the payroll until this rubbish he speaks is ended. Army is here to save the nation from dictatorship-pillage-plunder, and if these now in power carry on despite Khun Thaksin or Amsterdams money==it will sure step in again.

If they perform well (impossible with P.M. cabinet) there will be no problems.

If Abhisit and his reasonable cabinet was so bad-Why wasn't there a coup?????? to get him out. I am sure even the Dems being corrupt as this lot would have been out. All Thai governments have corruption, BUT non as much as this regime.

But who is here to save the nation from the Army's "dictatorship-pillage-plunder"?

In a properly functioning nation the military is the servant of the state. The military has a vital function in any country but effectively running it for political and economic gain is, as previously stated, to everyone's disadvantage apart from a few at the top.

As an ex-army person I certainly have no anti-military axe to grind. Simply put I firmly believe the military has no right to basically rule a country (or at the very least wield a powerful veto over how it is run), and certainly not to run it for economic gain if only because they tend to do it pretty badly (see countless examples around the world (Argentina, Brazil, Ghana etc) of how the military do a lousy job running a nation, just look across the border to Myanmar).

[cdnvic]

If you don`t have anything to say please don`t waste space with a "^+1". They just get deleted.

[Moruya]

Now after the floods all has changed and the Army was always there to help Thaskin was no where to be seen

Nothing has changed

The army was there to help, and they had better have been.

To try and equate a salaried state entity, conducting state assigned duties, while accumulating pensionable service,.......... with volunteerism is incorrect.

The UDD/Red Shirts singlehandedly did more than any other organized force in the country, to provide flood assistance to BKK.

I was personally wittness to seven (7) trips to Bangkok, involving sixteen (16) truckloads of stuff. Not pick-ups, but dumptruck equivelants.

The operation at Don Muang was excellent, in spite of the Opposition trying to use it to denigrate the Govt, with their incessant FROC-flogging.

To say that a non-volunteer force did everything and volunteerism did nothing, is a gross indecency.

lol utter factless crap

This poster is entitled to his useless propaganda in favour of Mr. Amsterdam. this man is a highly paid overweight, and will always be on the payroll until this rubbish he speaks is ended. Army is here to save the nation from dictatorship-pillage-plunder, and if these now in power carry on despite Khun Thaksin or Amsterdams money==it will sure step in again.

If they perform well (impossible with P.M. cabinet) there will be no problems.

If Abhisit and his reasonable cabinet was so bad-Why wasn't there a coup?????? to get him out. I am sure even the Dems being corrupt as this lot would have been out. All Thai governments have corruption, BUT non as much as this regime.

But who is here to save the nation from the Army's "dictatorship-pillage-plunder"?

In a properly functioning nation the military is the servant of the state. The military has a vital function in any country but effectively running it for political and economic gain is, as previously stated, to everyone's disadvantage apart from a few at the top.

As an ex-army person I certainly have no anti-military axe to grind. Simply put I firmly believe the military has no right to basically rule a country (or at the very least wield a powerful veto over how it is run), and certainly not to run it for economic gain if only because they tend to do it pretty badly (see countless examples around the world (Argentina, Brazil, Ghana etc) of how the military do a lousy job running a nation, just look across the border to Myanmar).

As an ex-army person, who did you swear your allegiance to?

[gopnarak]

I will let the readers decide.

I think it is pretty clear they have.

All that is left to decide is whether you are a paid for your ink.

All I can see is that he learned his style not at the thaivisa school of reasoning.

[folium]

Can't get the quotes button to work, but in reply to the Oath of Allegiance question....

The Oath of Allegiance subordinates the interests of the individual to those of their unit, Army and nation as represented by the Crown.

The British Army serves the state rather than the other way round, and this has been a fundamental constitutional fact since Cromwell's military dictatorship and the backlash it generated.

[moe666]

I can agree totally with the Red Shirts and what they say they want, fairness and equality for all Thais but when they align themselves with Big T and(dance to his drum) PTP they have no crediability. Form your own political party run on your platform and lets see what happens

[Ricardo]

I will let the readers decide.

Many Thanks, reaches for the 'Ignore' function.

[Moruya]

Can't get the quotes button to work, but in reply to the Oath of Allegiance question....

The Oath of Allegiance subordinates the interests of the individual to those of their unit, Army and nation as represented by the Crown.

The British Army serves the state rather than the other way round, and this has been a fundamental constitutional fact since Cromwell's military dictatorship and the backlash it generated.

See here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oath_of_Allegiance_(United_Kingdom)

[cdnvic]

We're off topic here. Please return to the story as it relates to Thailand.

[myfriendu]

Now after the floods all has changed and the Army was always there to help Thaskin was no where to be seen

Nothing has changed

The army was there to help, and they had better have been.

To try and equate a salaried state entity, conducting state assigned duties, while accumulating pensionable service,.......... with volunteerism is incorrect.

The UDD/Red Shirts singlehandedly did more than any other organized force in the country, to provide flood assistance to BKK.

I was personally wittness to seven (7) trips to Bangkok, involving sixteen (16) truckloads of stuff. Not pick-ups, but dumptruck equivelants.

The operation at Don Muang was excellent, in spite of the Opposition trying to use it to denigrate the Govt, with their incessant FROC-flogging.

To say that a non-volunteer force did everything and volunteerism did nothing, is a gross indecency.

lol utter factless crap

This poster is entitled to his useless propaganda in favour of Mr. Amsterdam. this man is a highly paid overweight, and will always be on the payroll until this rubbish he speaks is ended. Army is here to save the nation from dictatorship-pillage-plunder, and if these now in power carry on despite Khun Thaksin or Amsterdams money==it will sure step in again.

If they perform well (impossible with P.M. cabinet) there will be no problems.

If Abhisit and his reasonable cabinet was so bad-Why wasn't there a coup?????? to get him out. I am sure even the Dems being corrupt as this lot would have been out. All Thai governments have corruption, BUT non as much as this regime.

But who is here to save the nation from the Army's "dictatorship-pillage-plunder"?

In a properly functioning nation the military is the servant of the state. The military has a vital function in any country but effectively running it for political and economic gain is, as previously stated, to everyone's disadvantage apart from a few at the top.

As an ex-army person I certainly have no anti-military axe to grind. Simply put I firmly believe the military has no right to basically rule a country (or at the very least wield a powerful veto over how it is run), and certainly not to run it for economic gain if only because they tend to do it pretty badly (see countless examples around the world (Argentina, Brazil, Ghana etc) of how the military do a lousy job running a nation, just look across the border to Myanmar).

go read roadmans post above and you get the gist of things here

[Scott]

Comments accusing members of being paid to post have been deleted along with the replies to them.

[takatukaland]

It's interesting to see how many people, despite probably having lived in Thailand for at least some period, seem so content to blame one party over the other: "It's Thaksin!" "No, it's the military." This when anyone who's lived and worked in Thailand for any period could tell you that power and power-sharing in Thailand is incredibly fractured and informalized. Often, personal characteristics having nothing to do with the requirements or purpose of the job decide a candidate's suitability. The people with the 'President' or other generic boss placard, be it in a school, business or government office, are often beholden to interests and traditions that completely constrain their hands in management. While I could not claim to understand how this power works in the Thai government, it seems fairly clear that the status-quo is what we have today: an uneasy, unspoken power-sharing agreement between the government (pro-Thaksin and anti-Thaksin, but mostly pro-) and military (anti-Thaksin), with the 'third institution' (if you will), and the most powerful, as an 'influence' and 'guiding, moral force' behind much of what happens in the earthly realm that we populate. The latter element is probably THE factor that prevents the military from doing what it would like to do, which is run public relations campaigns for itself and govern, forcibly, from behind the scenes. If I see any parallels with the Thai military, it is from China, which is a country especially keen on bi-lateral (instead of multi-lateral) international relations and the informal wielding of power and influence. I don't think, however, that we can assume the military is flat-out 'running things' and that it isn't beholden to the same traditions and orthodoxies that constrain other other two elements of Thai power. This is one of the major reason that the country has so frequently bungled recovery operations after disasters; no one know who is boss because offense may be caused by the 'youngest executive' merely LOOKING too aggressive amongst his/her older cohorts.

I live here 11yrs,i saw Thaksin,and i saw everybody and everything what came after Thaksin.My thinking is the army should lose power and stop intervene into politics,same as the untouchables,Thaksin maybe in farang eyes a bad PM,but everything what came after Thaksin hmm really sucks.many people in this forum say the democrats are great,well if great then why they did not show in 6yrs,and why they lost the elections?

[phiphidon]

The question here is why anyone should pay any attention to a man who is hired by the opposition to run noise for them.

Mister Amsterdam, when you have a government that is being run by the Shinawatra family, its extended family including the Damapongs, friends and other crony assiciates of your clients, you do not have democracy.

If this sorry collection of paid individuals performed well for the country in a matter, say, similar to Singapore then that could possibly be overlooked. But it doesn't.

If the cabinet had performed from the kick-off, we wouldn't have had all these changes (more cronies) but they screwed up whatever they touched. Flooding and post-flood are still disasters. The heros here were the army.

So in a world with minsiters every 5 minutes you want the defense of the country in the same basket? Another man with Shinawatra DNA? Maybe someone with Zimbabwean roots?

Methinks you and your employers are after the crown jewels Mister Amsterdam

• Like him or not, he represents the views of a huge electoral block in the country, those responsible for electing Ms. Y. and co. That is why one should pay attention.
  
• In spite of all the electoral faults of Thailand, this Govt. was elected, and is Democratic as a result. For Thailand, this is pretty good.
  
• This collection of individuals were elected in as fair an election as Thailand can muster.
  
• Political appointees after an election are not cronies, but appointees by those who were elected by the people. Next time Abhi. and Co. win an election, they will also appoint people of their own kind - not cronies.
  
• But those "crown jewels" won an election and were the choice to govern thailand by a majority of the governed.
  
• How the flood was handled was exemplary when compared to how other nations and leaders handled their disasters. Whenever one is inclined to criticise this Govts. handling of the flood disaster, I always ask the question, "which nation and leader did better?' I have never received an answer to that question.
  

JAPAN

Not so good on the nuclear front though - or choosing flood free areas for their manufacturing bases in Thailand, but apart from that.........

[phiphidon]

This is from Wikipedia, so is not necessarily authoritative or objective. Please use your own best judgment:

RA Blogging activity

Amsterdam has two official blogs listed on Amsterdam & Peroff’s website:^[20] and.^[21]Amsterdam has published more than 5,000 original articles on his main blog and many legal blogs have cited his ^[22]" The prestigious blog "Siberian Light has ranked ^[23]" as one of the "Top 5 Russia blogs."^[24] Amsterdam's blog was also a finalist in the 2007 Weblog Awards.^[25]Among the various publications mentioning Mr. Amsterdam's achievements, a recent article published on the legal circuit quoted colleague lawyers stating that Amsterdam's blogging and lobbying activities are an example demonstrating legal and ethical obligations to clients.^[26]Amsterdam is known to use Blogs as a platform for sharing his cause with internet readers. He is well verse with gorilla [guerrilla, sic] marketing and getting his clients point across the web in a short amount of time. K Social Media Consulting LLC ^[27] is a company that runs full scale media campaigns for clients. Amsterdam employs this company to establish a strong presence in the online community to support his clients cause. Although Robert Amsterdam champions free speech, many people have raised concerns when they try to post comments on his Blog that does not support Mr. Amsterdam's view. Internet readers have repetitively said that their comments were never posted or simply deleted on Amsterdam's blogs.

Perhaps you need to go further than take wikipedia as gospel. You could even check out Amsterdams blogs yourself. I did and picked out one from random about the constitution. The first post was a criticism http://robertamsterdam.com/thailand/?p=1057 I tried another one at random, only one post "what a ridiculous comparison" http://robertamsterdam.com/thailand/?p=1062 Another one, the same http://robertamsterdam.com/thailand/?p=971

I could go on but I think it's clear that there is not a clamp down on free speech on Amsterdams pages. Maybe that'll be a lesson to you to check for yourself and not just blindly accept things because of who they involve.

[rubl]

Perhaps you need to go further than take wikipedia as gospel. You could even check out Amsterdams blogs yourself. I did and picked out one from random about the constitution. The first post was a criticism http://robertamsterd...hailand/?p=1057 I tried another one at random, only one post "what a ridiculous comparison" http://robertamsterd...hailand/?p=1062 Another one, the same http://robertamsterd...thailand/?p=971

I could go on but I think it's clear that there is not a clamp down on free speech on Amsterdams pages. Maybe that'll be a lesson to you to check for yourself and not just blindly accept things because of who they involve.

There is no clamp-down on anything which may give a negative view of many things Thai, especially when it helps his customers. The third link starts with "As legal counsel for the National United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD, or “Red Shirts”)" as you may have noticed.

Anyway, somehow you seem to have been able to prove the point a few posters were making here: Robert A. is just doing what he's paid for, in a well-phrased way. Study his style, you may learn how to subtlely suggest without really saying. The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth is a totally different matter though.

[Moruya]

Amsterdam, you hideous reptile, have you seen the Bangkok Post today?

2 Deputy Prime ministers, Chalerm and Yutthasak, fine specimens that they are, have come out in agreement with Prayuth over the amendment of section 112.

How do you feel now? Humiliated? Conned? Cheated? Scorned like a bitch?

CalgaryII - still working?

[TAWP]

He is paid by the Shinawatras so he can be discussed as his motives are tainted. With this association he has gained wealth as well as another chin, so is fair game.

But what about what he said?

If a lobbyist isn't paid does he make a sound?

[scorecard]

He is paid by the Shinawatras so he can be discussed as his motives are tainted. With this association he has gained wealth as well as another chin, so is fair game.

But what about what he said?

If a lobbyist isn't paid does he make a sound?

No, and there would be no doubt that whatever comes out of amsterdam is cleared first by the paymaster

[TAWP]

He also has no clue about Thailand, which he clearly proved in all his previous statements as a paid Thaksin lobbyist

A huge swath of the Thai electorate, in fact the majority, would beg to differ with that.

This article demonstrates that he knows very well what is going on behind the scenes.

Do you have any proof that the 'majority of the electorate' would beg to differ with that?

[TAWP]

The UDD/Red Shirts singlehandedly did more than any other organized force in the country, to provide flood assistance to BKK.

Holy Moses...and you can substantiate this with anything tangible?

[folium]

So you are saying it's fine to have an unaccountable military, with the right to stage a coup whenever their economic/personal power is threatened. It's fine to have a military who appear to at least tolerate freelance drug trafficking and timber extraction by its personnel, who are implicated in the recent murder of Chinese sailors/drug traffickers, who have a brutal way of dealing with Burmese migrants, who have a "robust", bordering on extra-judicial, style of crowd control as seen in April 2010 and May 1992.

All this and more because the ruling political party chosen by the majority of voters (given the vote-rigging and general vote-buying of course) needs to be "kept in check".

I'm no Thaksin or any other politico's apologist but simply someone who sees no place for a military in running a country. It's bad for the country, its people and ironically even bad for the military as can be seen in their inept performance in the southern provinces, the spate of helicopter accidents and the farce of recent hardware shopping.

It's not fine to have an unaccountable military, but if you think that would change under Thaksin (or the current government), I think you would be sorely mistaken.

The government doesn't need to have control over military appointments to stop coups, drug trafficking, etc. They need to enact laws and make sure they are enforced.

And until the majority of people also agree that it is utterly wrong for the military to have run the country for the last 80 years it will not change. I do fully understand that current politicians lack the means or the desire to change the status quo, but as events in Egypt and elsewhere have shown in the last 12 months once yo p**s off enough people change will come. Sadly if you get on the wrong side of history it can be unpleasant, and the longer an unaccountable power base is allowed to remain the messier its removal becomes for all parties involved.

Your opening statement is incorrect. The Thai Army under the command of this and the previous General does not take action when "their economic/personal power is threatened". Those days are gone.They only two times they have taken action this millineum is when the convicted criminal scum Thaksin was about to step beyond the democratic process to one of populist control in 2006 and when the same piece of scum attacked Thailand and the Thai Army in an act of war in the streets of Bangkok in 2010. In both cases in any western democracy force would have been used to the same extent the difference being in the first instance it would be the police as the law force on behalf of the public. Given that the police in Thailand are crooked and even more bent than the Army and are in the pocket of the convicted criminal scum Thaksin then the Army is the upholder of the law in Thailand. Is it ideal? Of course it bloody is not. Do the Army have faults? Of course they do. So do the pack of thievies, convicted criminals, murderers, and general scum that are currently running this country.

Nowhere do I see the current Thai Army running the country along the lines of the examples that you and other posters have put up (Burma). The only time they had power in 2006 after moving the governance back to a democratic process they were quick to happily give it back and even then to more of the convicted criminal Thaksins cronies. If you bothered to read the statements given by the current and previous Army Generals it is very clear to see that their bottom line intent is to provide a platform in Thailand for the democratic process to take hold. All their actions over the last 6 years or so have backed that up. Even look now at this bunch of scum that are leading the country and the Army is staying out of governance and allowing them to make their mess.

The message from the Army is clear to Pheu Thai. Destroy the country economically if you are that incredibily incompentent but do it within democratic process and they will stay on the side line. Cross the line and the Army will step back in to recorrect back to the democratic process. Given the corruption within Thailand, the police force incompentence and the convicted criminal Thaksins complete disregard for the law then the best thing about Thailand right now is the Army on the sideline as the law. A democratic process would be great but that sits hand in hand with another process that Thaksin and the rest of his thievies have no regard for - the law.

Long may the Thai Army be there to uphold that law until such time (if ever) that Thailand's political parties can learn what responsible democratic governance is. This lot in there now sure as hell don't.

Love it, because the army have taken to the streets only twice in the last 11 years that's fine. Though of course twice in only 11 years isn't that bad by Thai standards of the last 80 years.

Well actually what is interesting is that the military has been running this country longer than Myanmar's military has, ever since the 1933 coup when the Thai military overthrew the government. Over the next 79 years the military has become entrenched as the power brokers and shapers of Thailand, plus amassing vast economic interests both overt and covert (the latter involving Golden Triangle activities pus highly lucrative logging operations, originally in Thailand and following the ban, largely based around Myanmar, Cambodian & Laos deforestation)

You are very generous, and if you honestly think that the military hierarchy have the democratic interests of the country at heart you are sadly deluded.

What the generals have worked out over 79 years is that today especially it is not worth the hassle of fronting up a political system. Best to let the politico scumbag types take the limelight and fight over the scraps, on condition that they do not tweak the constitution to undermine the military's cosy set up and each year sign off on another round of lucrative arms contracts which benefit the signers far more than the poor suckers who have to operate the sub-standard equipment, whether it be bomb detectors, Chinese tanks (now appearing as artificial reefs in the Gulf of Thailand), or overpriced, over-engineered Ukranian hardware all providing ample opportunities for pension fund fulfilment.

The military have never had any intention of upholding the law whether it be 1933, 1976 Thammasat university, 1991 & Black May 1992 or 2006, plus the other 9 occasions in between (or is it 10?). The sad fact is that power always corrupts and any institution that tastes too much power can never shake off the addiction unless compelled. Under the umbrella of the Cold War this addiction became part of the fabric.

As you admit the military is hardly without sin, but the bottom line is that it has no place as a major player in the politics or economy of this country.

The cosy stitch up between Thai-Chinese entrepreneurs and the military has run its course. If LOS wants to stay competitive in SE Asia, let alone globally, there needs to be a fundamental shift in how this country is run. It is too easy to bang on about Thaksin etc but the politicians can only play the hand they are dealt (as Abhisit found out to his cost and he was probably one of the few relatively honest politicos around, despite being an Old Etonian).

Thaksin is shrewd enough to tap into public discontent and his sister's electoral victory underlines the desire for change. The last thing I would want to see is civil war in this wonderful country but the longer issues are ducked and swept under the carpet the more likely such an outcome becomes.

As many countries are discovering the game is changing fast and unless power elites keep up with this and reflect the demand for greater participation and accountability, the worse will be the final reckoning. The best thing the Thai military could do at this stage would be to become a loyal, non-political contributor to the state/nation just like any other civil servant.