I Want To Put On 3Kg Of Muscle

[sidjameson]

I know there are a few well informed posters on this forum regarding training. Hopefully one of you guys can help.

I am 43. 180cm. 79kg.

I do push ups and sit ups and jogging most days.

I want to add 3kg but obviously in a good way.

I definitely want the firm and toned look rather than the big look.

Actually I used to be lean 82kg and toned in my 30's but now I do the same exercise routine and seem to have lost a bit of muscle mass. (aging I know)

Better to exercise every day which burns the fat..i like it as i now find it much harder to keep a 6 pack.

But is it better to get to the gym 3 times a week?

Basically I remember one piece of advice from years back; exercise every day for tone or every other day for growth.

I guess in a nutshell...can I 'tone' myself up to 82kg or do I need more?

[sidjameson]

No, in a nutshell....

How can I add 3kg of muscle in the easiest way possible?

[transam]

No pain, no gain. That's it. If you do weights and after feel, oooh, that feels good then you might be going backwards. Muscle mass requires oooooodles of strain and puff. Hurt like hell for a day BUT you will grow. Abs can be worked every day but the rest every other day.

[jvs]

iI used to own a gym and we had quite a few bodybuilders around,the most important thing is to eat!If you want to gain weight you will have to eat extra food.

Most bodybuilders do bulk up,eat a lot and train a lot and wory about losing fat later.Being 43 years old does not make you lose muscle mass because of your age,it probably has more to do with inactivity.If you dont use muscles you lose them,your body will just switch to maintenance.

Every gym can help you with a training schedule,it will not be easy to gain weight and create a sixpack at the same time.

You do not grow in the gym,you grow in bed sleeping with food in your stomach.

[up-country_sinclair]

Hit the gym at least 5 days per week for multiple sets of heavy weight and low reps. In addition to a high protein diet, you should drink protein shakes and consider taking creatine.

[mommysboy]

Age shouldn't be an impediment. It's really about applying yourself in the gym then eating like a horse. I would think concentrating on 3 main exercises would do it, bench press, military press and squats (although squats might not be advisable unless your knees are 100%).

Lift heavy every other day, 10 reps no more.

[redthought]

It's more a question of how you train.. Lifting heavy weights for less reps w/ longer rest periods between sets is generally considered to help you gain size and strength. Also like some others said you should focus on compound exercises - exercises that recruit lots of different muscles (squats, deadlifts, bench, military press)

[deejah]

what's the best way to tone at home with as little paraphernalia as possible?

[JSixpack]

what's the best way to tone at home with as little paraphernalia as possible?

Make your own for B500; I did:

http://www.youtube.c...pension+trainer

Works great. No more gyms for me! I take it along when traveling, too.

[tropo]

iI used to own a gym and we had quite a few bodybuilders around,the most important thing is to eat!If you want to gain weight you will have to eat extra food.

Most bodybuilders do bulk up,eat a lot and train a lot and wory about losing fat later.Being 43 years old does not make you lose muscle mass because of your age,it probably has more to do with inactivity.If you dont use muscles you lose them,your body will just switch to maintenance.

Every gym can help you with a training schedule,it will not be easy to gain weight and create a sixpack at the same time.

You do not grow in the gym,you grow in bed sleeping with food in your stomach.

The OP doesn't want to put on weight - he wants to gain 3kg of solid muscle, not fat, not water. If he just starts eating more he's going to get fatter.

It won't take a big jump in calorie consumption to stimulate muscle growth. An adjustment in the type of food would more than likely be sufficient.

Growing muscle naturally takes an enormous effort even with good diet and the right training. At 43 it's much harder.

He's at the age where his hGH and testosterone levels are starting to decline while estradiol could be increasing. This will make his job harder still. Getting a hormone profile would be a very good place to start. The OP may be a candidate for TRT. Contrary to what you say, muscle is lost as a direct consequence of aging and the decline starts at around 30. It may not be noticed on the scales because an increase in fat replaces the lost muscle.

[tropo]

Age shouldn't be an impediment. It's really about applying yourself in the gym then eating like a horse. I would think concentrating on 3 main exercises would do it, bench press, military press and squats (although squats might not be advisable unless your knees are 100%).

Lift heavy every other day, 10 reps no more.

Doing heavy back work will result in more muscle growth than bench press and military press and would be safer on the joints. Pressing movements to the exclusion of pulling movements is a recipe for disaster. For every pressing movement do at least one pulling movement.

[robblok]

My 2 cents

Push ups don't cut it.

If you want muscle you have to get increased strain on them. If you benchpress 100kg 8 times for 4 sets all your life your muscles don't grow, even though its quite a weight. You have to increase the strain all the time.

Personally id go for the strong lifts 5 x 5 schedule. I have never had results like this. Training now with weights i never even did when i was younger and training. Age does limit you a bit but not that much if you do it right. The thing is you do need good food and rest and a place to train.

I am doing Squat, Benchpress and Dealifts all 5 x 5 and weights are still raising. My back is getting nice and big from the deadlifts.

[Shurup]

iI used to own a gym and we had quite a few bodybuilders around,the most important thing is to eat!If you want to gain weight you will have to eat extra food.

Most bodybuilders do bulk up,eat a lot and train a lot and wory about losing fat later.Being 43 years old does not make you lose muscle mass because of your age,it probably has more to do with inactivity.If you dont use muscles you lose them,your body will just switch to maintenance.

Every gym can help you with a training schedule,it will not be easy to gain weight and create a sixpack at the same time.

You do not grow in the gym,you grow in bed sleeping with food in your stomach.

The OP doesn't want to put on weight - he wants to gain 3kg of solid muscle, not fat, not water. If he just starts eating more he's going to get fatter.

It won't take a big jump in calorie consumption to stimulate muscle growth. An adjustment in the type of food would more than likely be sufficient.

Growing muscle naturally takes an enormous effort even with good diet and the right training. At 43 it's much harder.

He's at the age where his hGH and testosterone levels are starting to decline while estradiol could be increasing. This will make his job harder still. Getting a hormone profile would be a very good place to start. The OP may be a candidate for TRT. Contrary to what you say, muscle is lost as a direct consequence of aging and the decline starts at around 30. It may not be noticed on the scales because an increase in fat replaces the lost muscle.

You need to read a complete post and not be picky about any particular sentence to understand what people (JVS in this case) mean. In his post he's saying that you need to eat a lot and train a lot and that is 100% correct. On the same note, what you're saying is rubbish - jump in a calorie consumption and adjustment in the type of food will not give you any muscles but will make you fatter if it's done with a lack of exercises.

Without going into too much details, a calorie surplus makes you grow bigger, calories deficit makes you loose weight. Getting bigger and loosing fat can't be done at the same time and that's why BBs bulk up first and then worry about getting lean. Every competing BB gets huge in their off time and then before the competition they start toning and loosing fat. In the process to look as lean as they do when competing, they loose some muscles as well. OP probably doesn't want/need to look as a pro BB, but principles stay the same.

To answer OPs second post - the easiest way cannot be discussed on this forum.

[tropo]

On the same note, what you're saying is rubbish - jump in a calorie consumption and adjustment in the type of food will not give you any muscles but will make you fatter if it's done with a lack of exercises.

Getting bigger and loosing fat can't be done at the same time and that's why BBs bulk up first and then worry about getting lean. Every competing BB gets huge in their off time and then before the competition they start toning and loosing fat. In the process to look as lean as they do when competing, they loose some muscles as well. OP probably doesn't want/need to look as a pro BB, but principles stay the same.

OP probably doesn't want/need to look as a pro BB, but principles stay the same.

It is not difficult to lose fat and gain muscle at the same time. Increase calories from protein, decrease calories from carbs and train for muscle gain. Add in lots of high intesity cardio to keep the metabolism running high. I'm doing it as we speak. Bodyweight not changing - muscles growing, fat reducing.

Get yourself some good pinch calipers to monitor subcutaneous fat and a set of digital scales and learn how to train. You too may discover it is possible. Of course if you don't believe it is possible it probably won't happen.

There's no need to bring up the subject of massive pro bodybuilders. They achieve that with chemicals and lots of them. Plenty of those guys stay close to competition weight even in the off season. They may "bulk up" a bit, but even in this "bulked up" phase the top guys are relatively lean and rarely over 10% bodyfat.

Very few top pro bodybuilders gain any weight at all from year to year (when they're on top). Check out Jay Cutler for example. He's been coming in lighter over the past 2 or 3 years. Did Ronnie Coleman get any bigger over the last 5 years of competition?

Bulking up is just a very lazy way to train for the average Joe and generally an excuse to get fat.

You should know full well that your last sentence is nonsense. Principles change when chemicals are used.

[robblok]

I have to cut in here.

In general people can't loose fat while gaining muscle. There are a few exceptions to this rule, people who just start training, people who come back to training after a long pause (muscle memory anyone), and when chemicals are used.

Its quite simple in general you need a deficit to loose weight its accepted that when your on a deficit (calorie) you cant build muscle but loose fat. To gain muscle you need to have a surplus of calories you wont be able to burn much fat that way.

There are bodybuilders who say that with zig zag / calorie cycling you can gain muscle and loose fat. That is what i am doing at the moment but i am not sure it works. I have been doing the 5 x 5 with squat , bench, deads 3 days a week with the middle day being a 80% day. Other days i do cardio. I see a lot of difference in a relative short time. But that is because i stopped training for a few months (flood my gym was full of furniture and a holliday after that).

One not for you guys i just received some l carnitine and been taking it for the second day now and for some reason it seems to work on how i feel energy wise and muscle soreness. I was in a constant state of muscle soreness and it seems to have improved that a lot. Just for your guys information.

Other then that im not sure what side to choose here in the argument.

[tropo]

I have to cut in here.

In general people can't loose fat while gaining muscle. There are a few exceptions to this rule, people who just start training, people who come back to training after a long pause (muscle memory anyone), and when chemicals are used.

Its quite simple in general you need a deficit to loose weight its accepted that when your on a deficit (calorie) you cant build muscle but loose fat. To gain muscle you need to have a surplus of calories you wont be able to burn much fat that way.

There are bodybuilders who say that with zig zag / calorie cycling you can gain muscle and loose fat. That is what i am doing at the moment but i am not sure it works. I have been doing the 5 x 5 with squat , bench, deads 3 days a week with the middle day being a 80% day. Other days i do cardio. I see a lot of difference in a relative short time. But that is because i stopped training for a few months (flood my gym was full of furniture and a holliday after that).

One not for you guys i just received some l carnitine and been taking it for the second day now and for some reason it seems to work on how i feel energy wise and muscle soreness. I was in a constant state of muscle soreness and it seems to have improved that a lot. Just for your guys information.

Other then that im not sure what side to choose here in the argument.

As I said, it's quite possible to gain muscle and lose fat at the same time.

I'll use myself as an example.

1. On the scales: bodyweight staying the same.

2. On the calipers: mm's of subcutaneous fat decreasing.

3. In the mirror: musclular definition increasing. Abs finally becomong visible after being hidden for years.

4. In the gym: Strength increasing on all exercises.

Why is this happening?

* I'm forcing my body to utilize stored body fat for energy due to a big reduction in carbohydrate consumption.

* I eat 5 to 6 small meals per day. Each meal provides protein.

* Cardio everyday - HIIT and Steady State. Weights 5 days per week - always intense but in the 8 - 12 rep range.

You're going to get a lot stronger on 5x5. (I did a fair bit of 5x5 a couple of years back), but it's not the right program to build a well balanced muscular physique. When I was doing it I did a lot more exercises (shoulders, back etc). I still do some 5 rep sets to increase my strength in key exercises eg. Squat, incline bench, presses, pull downs.

I prefer to utilize other techniques to increase intensity and save my joints. eg. pre-exhaustion, drop sets, super strict pause reps, super slow etc. The idea is to get more intensity from less weight. I move fast - which provides additional fat burning benefits.

[Shurup]

It is not difficult to lose fat and gain muscle at the same time. Increase calories from protein, decrease calories from carbs and train for muscle gain. Add in lots of high intesity cardio to keep the metabolism running high. I'm doing it as we speak. Bodyweight not changing - muscles growing, fat reducing.

Get yourself some good pinch calipers to monitor subcutaneous fat and a set of digital scales and learn how to train. You too may discover it is possible. Of course if you don't believe it is possible it probably won't happen.

There's no need to bring up the subject of massive pro bodybuilders. They achieve that with chemicals and lots of them. Plenty of those guys stay close to competition weight even in the off season. They may "bulk up" a bit, but even in this "bulked up" phase the top guys are relatively lean and rarely over 10% bodyfat.

Very few top pro bodybuilders gain any weight at all from year to year (when they're on top). Check out Jay Cutler for example. He's been coming in lighter over the past 2 or 3 years. Did Ronnie Coleman get any bigger over the last 5 years of competition?

Bulking up is just a very lazy way to train for the average Joe and generally an excuse to get fat.

You should know full well that your last sentence is nonsense. Principles change when chemicals are used.

You're talkign rubbish again.

Fact about Ronnie: Contest weight: 297 lbs (135 kg), Off Season: 330 lbs (150 kg).

Did he get any bigger in the last 5 years? I don't know and it doens't matter, maybe he DOESN'T want to get any bigger as he's already big enough???

Ask yourself a question: was he born at 300+ lbs? Definitely not. How did he get there? Through heavy exercises and proper diet.

Another fact about Ronnie: when he was introduced to BB just over 2 decades ago, he weighted about 100 lbs less than what he's now.

Bulking isn't a lazy way to train, it's a smart way to maximize your muscle growth in which case your growth will only be limited to how hard you exercise. You will gain some fat along the way. This is how BB do it.

Another way is to slightly increase your calories intake (together with exercises) and here how much you eat become the limiting factor - you can double or tripple your exersice frequency or weights in the gym and it won't do f#$% all for your growth.

Next step for BBs is to loose the excess BF for the contest. It's acheaved through dieting and a lot of cardio together with weightlifting to try to minimize muscle losses. After the competition BBs normally go back to bulking phase (that IF they want to put on more muscles).

Most folks probably don't want to look good only for one week per year so there is 2 ways they can do it.

First as was already mentioned, is bulking and then cutting after which all you need to do is maintain what you have achieve (don't go back to bulking as BBs do).

Second is clean bulking where you put on muscles without or with very little fat gain. It's achieved through proper exercising and slight increase the calories intake. It definitely IS possible to put on muscles without putting on fat but it requires calculating nutritional value of everything you put in your mouth and taking note of what activities you do through the day.

I repeat it's not possible to put on weight and loose fat at the same time, one requires calories surplus, another one calories deficit, you can't do both and if you say you can, then I'll tell you to lay off the juice.

There is one common confusion here. If someone's BW goes up and the pinch calipers show some improvements in the BF, it doens't necesserly mean that a person is loosing fat, it can mean just that the person is putting on muscles. %wise it may show that the BF is decreasing when the FW goes up but in absolute terms, the amount of fat (in kg) stays the same. Calipers show an improvement because all that fat is now spread over a larger area. Take a teaspoon of butter and spread it over a cracker, looks like a lot of butter, now take that teaspoon and spread it over a big loaf of bread... hmm...

[tropo]

*deleted*

[tropo]

You're talkign rubbish again.

Fact about Ronnie: Contest weight: 297 lbs (135 kg), Off Season: 330 lbs (150 kg).

Did he get any bigger in the last 5 years? I don't know and it doens't matter, maybe he DOESN'T want to get any bigger as he's already big enough???

Ask yourself a question: was he born at 300+ lbs? Definitely not. How did he get there? Through heavy exercises and proper diet.

Another fact about Ronnie: when he was introduced to BB just over 2 decades ago, he weighted about 100 lbs less than what he's now.

Bulking isn't a lazy way to train, it's a smart way to maximize your muscle growth in which case your growth will only be limited to how hard you exercise. You will gain some fat along the way. This is how BB do it.

Another way is to slightly increase your calories intake (together with exercises) and here how much you eat become the limiting factor - you can double or tripple your exersice frequency or weights in the gym and it won't do f#$% all for your growth.

Next step for BBs is to loose the excess BF for the contest. It's acheaved through dieting and a lot of cardio together with weightlifting to try to minimize muscle losses. After the competition BBs normally go back to bulking phase (that IF they want to put on more muscles).

Most folks probably don't want to look good only for one week per year so there is 2 ways they can do it.

First as was already mentioned, is bulking and then cutting after which all you need to do is maintain what you have achieve (don't go back to bulking as BBs do).

Second is clean bulking where you put on muscles without or with very little fat gain. It's achieved through proper exercising and slight increase the calories intake. It definitely IS possible to put on muscles without putting on fat but it requires calculating nutritional value of everything you put in your mouth and taking note of what activities you do through the day.

I repeat it's not possible to put on weight and loose fat at the same time, one requires calories surplus, another one calories deficit, you can't do both and if you say you can, then I'll tell you to lay off the juice.

There is one common confusion here. If someone's BW goes up and the pinch calipers show some improvements in the BF, it doens't necesserly mean that a person is loosing fat, it can mean just that the person is putting on muscles. %wise it may show that the BF is decreasing when the FW goes up but in absolute terms, the amount of fat (in kg) stays the same. Calipers show an improvement because all that fat is now spread over a larger area. Take a teaspoon of butter and spread it over a cracker, looks like a lot of butter, now take that teaspoon and spread it over a big loaf of bread... hmm...

Talking about bulking for a 43 year old to gain 3kg of muscle is ridiculous. If he is a normal 43 year old he's already carrying over 20% bodyfat and you're suggesting he "bulk-up" further... and then to make your point you're comparing him to a bodybuilder who may gain a few percent bodyfat after a competition and a ton of water.

The bodybuilders don't "bulk" during the off season. They normalize their weight from an extremely unnatural 3 - 4% bodyfat and rehydrate fluids which they forced out of their system with diuretics.

Let's say you were correct and Ronnie competed at 297 lbs (he may have competed at 286 lbs max one year). Let's use 300 lbs for ease of calculation. Let's say he was 3% bodyfat at 300 lbs. That's 9 lbs of fat. Then after the competition he gained 5% bodyfat (went up to 8%) - he's now a very lean 330 lbs. In actual fact, considering water gain and food in his gut he'd be very lean at 340 lbs at 8% bodyfat.

Your bulk-up theory went out with the dinosaurs.

It is not difficult to train lean. Just organise your meals and you'll have all the energy you need to train and gain muscle. In actual fact you'll probably have more energy as over-eating makes you sluggish.

If you eat too much and you're over 40 you'll end up with another problem too - a big gut due to visceral fat accumulation. That is something which is nearly impossible to diet away. Have you noticed how many bulky bodybuilders have distended guts? I was one. 120kg with a big gut - which I'm working to get rid of at age 52.

[robblok]

I have to cut in here.

In general people can't loose fat while gaining muscle. There are a few exceptions to this rule, people who just start training, people who come back to training after a long pause (muscle memory anyone), and when chemicals are used.

Its quite simple in general you need a deficit to loose weight its accepted that when your on a deficit (calorie) you cant build muscle but loose fat. To gain muscle you need to have a surplus of calories you wont be able to burn much fat that way.

There are bodybuilders who say that with zig zag / calorie cycling you can gain muscle and loose fat. That is what i am doing at the moment but i am not sure it works. I have been doing the 5 x 5 with squat , bench, deads 3 days a week with the middle day being a 80% day. Other days i do cardio. I see a lot of difference in a relative short time. But that is because i stopped training for a few months (flood my gym was full of furniture and a holliday after that).

One not for you guys i just received some l carnitine and been taking it for the second day now and for some reason it seems to work on how i feel energy wise and muscle soreness. I was in a constant state of muscle soreness and it seems to have improved that a lot. Just for your guys information.

Other then that im not sure what side to choose here in the argument.

As I said, it's quite possible to gain muscle and lose fat at the same time.

I'll use myself as an example.

1. On the scales: bodyweight staying the same.

2. On the calipers: mm's of subcutaneous fat decreasing.

3. In the mirror: musclular definition increasing. Abs finally becomong visible after being hidden for years.

4. In the gym: Strength increasing on all exercises.

Why is this happening?

* I'm forcing my body to utilize stored body fat for energy due to a big reduction in carbohydrate consumption.

* I eat 5 to 6 small meals per day. Each meal provides protein.

* Cardio everyday - HIIT and Steady State. Weights 5 days per week - always intense but in the 8 - 12 rep range.

You're going to get a lot stronger on 5x5. (I did a fair bit of 5x5 a couple of years back), but it's not the right program to build a well balanced muscular physique. When I was doing it I did a lot more exercises (shoulders, back etc). I still do some 5 rep sets to increase my strength in key exercises eg. Squat, incline bench, presses, pull downs.

I prefer to utilize other techniques to increase intensity and save my joints. eg. pre-exhaustion, drop sets, super strict pause reps, super slow etc. The idea is to get more intensity from less weight. I move fast - which provides additional fat burning benefits.

I have to disagree about the 5 x 5 i did split most of my life and now im doing 5 x 5 my body is looking much better. My back was always a problem but now because of the deadlifts its getting broader (nice V shape). I did not get that from my split. Also everything is growing much better as when i was doing split.

Maybe different bodies respond differently. I do know that doing splits is a hell of a lot easier then what im doing now.

Anyway 3kg of muscle is easy to get if you have never trained much. (talking about the OP)

[tropo]

I have to cut in here.

In general people can't loose fat while gaining muscle. There are a few exceptions to this rule, people who just start training, people who come back to training after a long pause (muscle memory anyone), and when chemicals are used.

Its quite simple in general you need a deficit to loose weight its accepted that when your on a deficit (calorie) you cant build muscle but loose fat. To gain muscle you need to have a surplus of calories you wont be able to burn much fat that way.

There are bodybuilders who say that with zig zag / calorie cycling you can gain muscle and loose fat. That is what i am doing at the moment but i am not sure it works. I have been doing the 5 x 5 with squat , bench, deads 3 days a week with the middle day being a 80% day. Other days i do cardio. I see a lot of difference in a relative short time. But that is because i stopped training for a few months (flood my gym was full of furniture and a holliday after that).

One not for you guys i just received some l carnitine and been taking it for the second day now and for some reason it seems to work on how i feel energy wise and muscle soreness. I was in a constant state of muscle soreness and it seems to have improved that a lot. Just for your guys information.

Other then that im not sure what side to choose here in the argument.

As I said, it's quite possible to gain muscle and lose fat at the same time.

I'll use myself as an example.

1. On the scales: bodyweight staying the same.

2. On the calipers: mm's of subcutaneous fat decreasing.

3. In the mirror: musclular definition increasing. Abs finally becomong visible after being hidden for years.

4. In the gym: Strength increasing on all exercises.

Why is this happening?

* I'm forcing my body to utilize stored body fat for energy due to a big reduction in carbohydrate consumption.

* I eat 5 to 6 small meals per day. Each meal provides protein.

* Cardio everyday - HIIT and Steady State. Weights 5 days per week - always intense but in the 8 - 12 rep range.

You're going to get a lot stronger on 5x5. (I did a fair bit of 5x5 a couple of years back), but it's not the right program to build a well balanced muscular physique. When I was doing it I did a lot more exercises (shoulders, back etc). I still do some 5 rep sets to increase my strength in key exercises eg. Squat, incline bench, presses, pull downs.

I prefer to utilize other techniques to increase intensity and save my joints. eg. pre-exhaustion, drop sets, super strict pause reps, super slow etc. The idea is to get more intensity from less weight. I move fast - which provides additional fat burning benefits.

I have to disagree about the 5 x 5 i did split most of my life and now im doing 5 x 5 my body is looking much better. My back was always a problem but now because of the deadlifts its getting broader (nice V shape). I did not get that from my split. Also everything is growing much better as when i was doing split.

Maybe different bodies respond differently. I do know that doing splits is a hell of a lot easier then what im doing now.

Anyway 3kg of muscle is easy to get if you have never trained much. (talking about the OP)

I found 5x5 (Doggcrapp) a breeze compared to bodypart training, but let's face it, intensity is up to the person. Doing 5 reps of anything is a lot easier than going for failure at 10-12 reps, even if you're lifting heavier. Have you tried 15 - 20 rep squats?

5x5 is not a good idea for older people or anyone with joint injuries/weaknesses as it focuses too much on what you lift rather than what the muscles are doing. It's powerlifting, not bodybuilding. If you're after a powerlifters physique then it's the way to go but in the end that's all you're going to end up with.

I agree, the first 3kg will be easy for a rank beginner provided he's in decent health and his testosterone is within the normal range.

[robblok]

I have to disagree about the 5 x 5 i did split most of my life and now im doing 5 x 5 my body is looking much better. My back was always a problem but now because of the deadlifts its getting broader (nice V shape). I did not get that from my split. Also everything is growing much better as when i was doing split.

Maybe different bodies respond differently. I do know that doing splits is a hell of a lot easier then what im doing now.

Anyway 3kg of muscle is easy to get if you have never trained much. (talking about the OP)

I found 5x5 (Doggcrapp) a breeze compared to bodypart training, but let's face it, intensity is up to the person. Doing 5 reps of anything is a lot easier than going for failure at 10-12 reps, even if you're lifting heavier. Have you tried 15 - 20 rep squats?

5x5 is not a good idea for older people or anyone with joint injuries/weaknesses as it focuses too much on what you lift rather than what the muscles are doing. It's powerlifting, not bodybuilding. If you're after a powerlifters physique then it's the way to go but in the end that's all you're going to end up with.

I agree, the first 3kg will be easy for a rank beginner provided he's in decent health and his testosterone is within the normal range.

Its all about intensity, i can tell you i find 20 reps squat easy. I have done split training most of my life and it did not come close to this. The 10 x 10 did that was also real heavy. Anyway i am doing 5 x 5 Squat, Bench Deads. And i have to increase weights each week. So that kinda makes it close to faillure all the time.

I also think its BS about the physique, if you punish your muscles you will get stronger and put more on. The exercises are the same you are not getting a different body by more reps.How your body will look is largely based in your genes and how long you go on with training. Your muscles are not going to get a different shape because you do more reps. If you stop going to faillure and stop increasing weights then you stop growing then you can maintain a fitness models looks.. if you go on you will become a bodybuilder. There is no magic number.. but if you go below the 5 you might just get strength.

[poanoi]

I'm with robblok on this one.

Stop wasting energy on jogging & push-ups, use weights.

The pyramid worked very well for me, like 10 reps, 7 reps with heavier, 5 reps w heavier yet, 3 even heavier, and a single rep as heavy as possible, then up in steps again.

1] Eat

2] Sleep

3] lift heavy sh!t***

Dont waste energy on anything else, least of all running, all your energy goes into building, and the 3 ingredients are equally important

*** With one important exception !!! dont use heavy weights when you do shoulders,

they are delicate stuff you need to be gentle

[tropo]

Its all about intensity, i can tell you i find 20 reps squat easy. I have done split training most of my life and it did not come close to this. The 10 x 10 did that was also real heavy. Anyway i am doing 5 x 5 Squat, Bench Deads. And i have to increase weights each week. So that kinda makes it close to faillure all the time.

I'm familiar with the Doggcrap 5x5 system and have incorporated elements of it into my own programs, but you've limited it even further by cutting back on important exercises.

You're powerlifting - that's it. Even powerlifters do supplementary work, especially rows to keep their shoulder girdle strength balanced. Training only pushing movements is a recipe for disaster. You should be able to pull at least what you can push.

Even so, I don't know how old you are but sooner or later you'll have to stop being obsessed with how much you lift and pay more attention to function to save your joints.

You find 20 rep squats easy and 5 rep squats hard? Are you serious?

[tropo]

*** With one important exception !!! dont use heavy weights when you do shoulders,

they are delicate stuff you need to be gentle

I disagree with that. Heavy bench presses are more detrimental to the shoulder joint than pressing movements. People are far too obsessed with the bench press - the most dangerous exercise in the gym and one that causes the most injuries - primarily because people are too concerned with how much weight they push and not how they push it.

[poanoi]

I never use bench, or rather, i use handlebars when i do it, otherwise i mess up my shoulders.

[robblok]

Its all about intensity, i can tell you i find 20 reps squat easy. I have done split training most of my life and it did not come close to this. The 10 x 10 did that was also real heavy. Anyway i am doing 5 x 5 Squat, Bench Deads. And i have to increase weights each week. So that kinda makes it close to faillure all the time.

I'm familiar with the Doggcrap 5x5 system and have incorporated elements of it into my own programs, but you've limited it even further by cutting back on important exercises.

You're powerlifting - that's it. Even powerlifters do supplementary work, especially rows to keep their shoulder girdle strength balanced. Training only pushing movements is a recipe for disaster. You should be able to pull at least what you can push.

Even so, I don't know how old you are but sooner or later you'll have to stop being obsessed with how much you lift and pay more attention to function to save your joints.

You find 20 rep squats easy and 5 rep squats hard? Are you serious?

Yes i am serious.. and i pull now around 140kg with deads in the 5 x 5 and bench 112 5 x 5 so that is going ok.

Actually i take the word of famous strenght coach Mark Rippetoe / Bill Star over yours he seems to have a few more credentials under his belt. As far as i see is that your spewing a lot of untruths. Actually powerlifters go lower in reps 5. I also never do singles as i train alone and it would be dangerous. The last time i did it is a couple of months back when i was in better shape. I pressed 150.

Weight is actually not that important to me, but the great thing of the 5 x 5 from Rippetoe is that you have constant extra weights. Its not about the weights but about the extra extertion that keeps you growing. I have never grown as fast as now. With the exercises i do now i train my whole body. Deadlift practically works the whole body, squat is also a good one and bench. There aren't any muscles you don't use in this way.

I understand that older guys have to take it a bit slower, bt 20 reps does nothing for your muscles growth wise. You should read some real books from people who know instead of bodybuilders who need to write a piece and give you workouts that are only good for those on the juice and already really big. There is no need to do many exercises for biceps when your major muscles still lack. Triceps is trained with your presses.

The whole powerlifting versus bodybuilding is that powerlifters go below 5, 5 is good for growth too. You just don't cut it anymore and then you try to shoot down things that work for many people. Just tell us straight out your doing an old mans workout and then we can judge it on its merits.

In the past i done it all, been training since i was 17 or so with unfortunately big breaks too. I did dropsets, pyramids, pre exhaust, 10 x 10 , 4 x 8 split .. push pull ect. I think i know what works for my body.

[robblok]

Tropo,

Just let us compare our bodies in a year to see who was right. That would settle it i think.

[Shurup]

Talking about bulking for a 43 year old to gain 3kg of muscle is ridiculous. If he is a normal 43 year old he's already carrying over 20% bodyfat and you're suggesting he "bulk-up" further... and then to make your point you're comparing him to a bodybuilder who may gain a few percent bodyfat after a competition and a ton of water.

The bodybuilders don't "bulk" during the off season. They normalize their weight from an extremely unnatural 3 - 4% bodyfat and rehydrate fluids which they forced out of their system with diuretics.

Let's say you were correct and Ronnie competed at 297 lbs (he may have competed at 286 lbs max one year). Let's use 300 lbs for ease of calculation. Let's say he was 3% bodyfat at 300 lbs. That's 9 lbs of fat. Then after the competition he gained 5% bodyfat (went up to 8%) - he's now a very lean 330 lbs. In actual fact, considering water gain and food in his gut he'd be very lean at 340 lbs at 8% bodyfat.

Your bulk-up theory went out with the dinosaurs.

It is not difficult to train lean. Just organise your meals and you'll have all the energy you need to train and gain muscle. In actual fact you'll probably have more energy as over-eating makes you sluggish.

If you eat too much and you're over 40 you'll end up with another problem too - a big gut due to visceral fat accumulation. That is something which is nearly impossible to diet away. Have you noticed how many bulky bodybuilders have distended guts? I was one. 120kg with a big gut - which I'm working to get rid of at age 52.

Not sure what we're arguing about? I never suggested he start bulking up. All I said is that he need to eat more and train more and that's all that matters. If you disagree you don't need to say another word here.

[tropo]

Tropo,

Just let us compare our bodies in a year to see who was right. That would settle it i think.

Robblok,

I'm happy to compare our bodies right now and settle it. Why wait a year?

In a year, training like that you'll resemble a post with no muscle separation. You only have to look at your mentor Mark Rippetoe to see how you'll end up looking. You can carry a sign around saying "Hey, I can bench 112 x 5 and dead lift 140 kg". LOL I was pushing more weight than that as part of my regular bodybuilding program last year before I rationalized it in favour of joint safety.

If that is how you want to look, go for it and good luck. I don't think the OP had such a physique in mind when he asked the questions.

Oh yeah - and weight is not important? What a gem. You train with a program which focuses totally on how much you lift yet weight is not important???

You make a point about how long you have been lifting and done it all - yet this is where you ended up?

I've probably done longer in the gym than you have (started in August 1976), but that doesn't count much does it? it's where we are now that is important.

I predict that by next year you'll be back to a higher rep, more varied program after wasting most of this year messing around with Rippetoe dreams.