Army Chief Dismisses April Coup Reports Claimed By Pheu Thai MP Jatuporn

[metisdead]

An off topic post has been removed.

[localsocalman]

Army chief to Red Shirt leader: ‘Who will stage coup?’

BANGKOK, Feb 9 - Thai army chief Gen Prayuth Chan-ocha on Thursday dismissed Red Shirt leader Jatuporn Prompan's claim of a possible coup in April, asking him “Who will stage the coup?”.

The army chief reacted one day after the Pheu Thai party-list MP and key Red Shirt leader Jatuporn Prompan claimed that some members of the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) and his "associates who work with US Intelligence" told him that a coup is likely in April.

Gen Prayuth asked the protest leader to identify the group of military personnel who will conduct the coup as he had no knowledge of it, regardless whether from Thai or foreign intelligence sources.

The army chief said anyone who believe such rumour negatively affects Thai national security can file charges against the person who released it.

Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra commented similarly as the army chief on Thursday, saying she has not been informed of any coup possibility.

Ms Yingluck said she believed that Mr Jatuporn raised the issue as a warning. She noted that everyone has the right to express opinion, but that such expression should not go beyond the legal limit.

The premier stated that all parties should be relaxed as the military has already made its stance clear on the matter.

Defence Minister Air Chief Marshal Sukampol Suwannathat meanwhile criticised Mr Jatuporn as "talking too much", assuring the public that there was no such thing as a coup in the wings as the red shirt leader claimed.

ACM Sukampol dismissed the claim as ridiculous, asking rhetorically why the CIA had not alerted him but the Red Shirt leader.

The minister stood firm that the top brass never wanted to stage a coup. (MCOT online news)

-- TNA 2012-02-09

I love this from the PM Yingluck: "Ms Yingluck said she believed that Mr Jatuporn raised the issue as a warning. She noted that everyone has the right to express opinion, but that such expression should not go beyond the legal limit." Seriously that is your response to one of your direct reports who is spreading rumors and fomenting Red Shirts to be prepared ......." <deleted> --- she should have formally reprimanded him and put on notice, this type of behavior from any member of her team and to the general public is unacceptable and will not be tolerated. Threatening to foment terror is not freedom of speech or in her word "right to express opinion, but that such expression should not go beyond the legal limit". What is the legal limit. Is she incapable of making a claritive statement?

[hellodolly]

Army chief to Red Shirt leader: ‘Who will stage coup?’

BANGKOK, Feb 9 - Thai army chief Gen Prayuth Chan-ocha on Thursday dismissed Red Shirt leader Jatuporn Prompan's claim of a possible coup in April, asking him “Who will stage the coup?”.

The army chief reacted one day after the Pheu Thai party-list MP and key Red Shirt leader Jatuporn Prompan claimed that some members of the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) and his "associates who work with US Intelligence" told him that a coup is likely in April.

Gen Prayuth asked the protest leader to identify the group of military personnel who will conduct the coup as he had no knowledge of it, regardless whether from Thai or foreign intelligence sources.

The army chief said anyone who believe such rumour negatively affects Thai national security can file charges against the person who released it.

Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra commented similarly as the army chief on Thursday, saying she has not been informed of any coup possibility.

Ms Yingluck said she believed that Mr Jatuporn raised the issue as a warning. She noted that everyone has the right to express opinion, but that such expression should not go beyond the legal limit.

The premier stated that all parties should be relaxed as the military has already made its stance clear on the matter.

Defence Minister Air Chief Marshal Sukampol Suwannathat meanwhile criticised Mr Jatuporn as "talking too much", assuring the public that there was no such thing as a coup in the wings as the red shirt leader claimed.

ACM Sukampol dismissed the claim as ridiculous, asking rhetorically why the CIA had not alerted him but the Red Shirt leader.

The minister stood firm that the top brass never wanted to stage a coup. (MCOT online news)

-- TNA 2012-02-09

I love this from the PM Yingluck: "Ms Yingluck said she believed that Mr Jatuporn raised the issue as a warning. She noted that everyone has the right to express opinion, but that such expression should not go beyond the legal limit." Seriously that is your response to one of your direct reports who is spreading rumors and fomenting Red Shirts to be prepared ......." <deleted> --- she should have formally reprimanded him and put on notice, this type of behavior from any member of her team and to the general public is unacceptable and will not be tolerated. Threatening to foment terror is not freedom of speech or in her word "right to express opinion, but that such expression should not go beyond the legal limit". What is the legal limit. Is she incapable of making a claritive statement?

exactly

She should have publicly raked him over the coals for his attempts to create publicly more disunity.

The man is a embarrassment to Thailand and should be striped of his political standing and placed in jail where he belongs. All Yingluck is doing is publicly supporting him.

[z12]

Didn't Jatuporn's dear old mum tell him to "Just shut up" or words to that aeffect? He should listen to his mum, she is obviously by far much smarter than him.

and didnt Jatuporn's supporters tear his red shirt from his back calling him a fake red?

He would be more believable with a bottle of petro in his hand.

Edited February 11, 2012 by z12

[TheyCallmeScooter]

Using the 18 count results in a coup d'etat every 4.4 years. Therefore, pure mathematical probability compounded by all the negative press and on-going incessant bickering and criticism of the sitting PM, would logically point to another coup d'etat.

No offence, just stating irrefutable facts; but you shouldn't really be using phrases like "pure mathematical probability" and "logically" when you're not exactly - cognisant - nor capable, of understanding either mathematics or logic.

If we correctly flip a non-weighted coin 20 times and it comes up Heads 16 times out of 20, the 21st flip does not have an 80% chance of being Heads. History is important because it repeats itself, but you cannot make illogical predictions based on such a ludicrous mathematical fallacy. I bet you dabble in some wonderfully illogical day-trading, though? Do you - play - the stock market? #soulread

Logically, there is zero chance of a coup occurring unless the law is abrogated or simply made to look ridiculous by Thaksin's endless feelers, at finagling a return. Isn't Yingluck and the Immigration Minister facing impeachment at some point over their giving a convicted criminal his passport back? What Jutaporn is doing here is what he's paid to do; pre-emptive bluster and ridiculous rhetorical rumour-mongering that affords his employers to keep as many options as they have, on the table.

Presently, the political climate is not one where a coup could even occur. But then this is not to say that Jutaporn's masters aren't going to attempt to do something which might change the 'weather' - and if they decide to risk forcing a coup, suddenly Jutaporn might not look like the peanut gallery that he effectively is.

The Thai style overthrows of governments have historically been "coup d'etat" and have usually included the element of surprise or suddeness. The last one, in September, 2006 was clearly a sudden tactic by the military, and surprise to "most" people including the incumbent majority government.

Now you're just being silly. Read a Wikipedia page, for Heaven's sake. That coup was coming from a mile away. Thailand was in a Constitutional crisis because Thaksin had parcelled out Shin Corp to 'individuals' in order to avoid paying capital gains tax. Thaksin called a snap election a year after buying an overwhelming electoral victory and if you can come up with a theory for why he was acquitted by the Constitutional Court after pleading guilty (but 'not guilty by virtue of clerical errors' - lol) to lying about his assets (tax evasion), I'd be interested in hearing you make that argument. Logically.

I seem to remember some of Thaksin's lawyers being arrested with millions of baht in their briefcases at the time, but maybe they were just on their way to buy new cars or something.

Thaksin's 1st Asset Concealment case was brought to the Constitutional Court. His TRT party had just won the popular vote by a historic majority, but he had not completely disclosed his assets as required by the law. A false asset disclosure would normally disqualify someone from taking up any political post for five years. But he pleaded with tears in his eyes that it was just a clerical error. The judges voted narrowly by a 7–8 margin, allowing Thaksin to take up the office of Prime Minister.

His calling of the snap election to avoid facing corruption charges and impeachment was a laughably desperate ploy, obviously. The transparency was evident; Thaksin had no reason to call a snap election and the concept of calling for a "vote of confidence" isn't supposed to be used in lieu of judiciary proceedings. No PM in Parliamentary democratic history has ever called a snap election holding such an overwhelming majority.

In February 2006, Thaksin dissolved Parliament and called a general legislative election for the House of Representatives in April 2006. Most major opposition parties boycotted the election, led by Democrat Party. After the elections, King Bhumibol requested that the courts resolve the crisis. Soon afterwards, the Constitutional Court invalidated the elections based on the positioning of voting booths, and the Criminal Court later jailed members of the Election Commission that did not obey the Court's request to resign.

In early 2006, the supporters of Thaksin Shinawatra, claimed supported by the premier himself and his close figures, blockaded the entry of the Nation Group building, threatening to 'burn' the building.

When the opposition parties refused to contest the sham election (quite reasonably), Thaksin got so many abstention votes, he resigned as PM.

He then changed his mind. lolz. I mean, the whole circus had become a joke by this stage. The Constitutional Court invalidated the sham election results, ordering new elections to be held later in the year. So Thaksin just walked back into his job, reneging on his resignation. Which is not actually legal. The entire thing was a Constitutional farce.

[TheyCallmeScooter]

In a rare, televised speech to senior judges, King Bhumibol requested that the judiciary take action to resolve the political crisis. On 8 May 2006, the Constitution Court invalidated the results of the April elections and ordered a new round of elections, later set for October elections.

Thaksin returned to work on 19 May 2006, in the wake of the Constitutional Court's nullification of the April elections and catastrophic flooding in the North. However, political tension remained high. On 22 May, Pairoj Vongvipanon, former dean of the Faculty of Economics, Chulalongkorn University, warned Thaksin of assassination: "Thaksin must be careful or else he might be killed. Don't think that assassinations can not occur in Thailand."

On an unrelated (but related to Jutaporn) note, this public 'warning' business is contemptible. It's unconscionable and occurs in the Philippines a lot as well; all these caring types 'warning' each other they can be killed. It's really quite vile, basically. It's outrageous that the media prints these threats and it's against the law in every nation that is governed by the "rule of law" (whatever that's supposed to mean). But I'm sure no one would disagree that it's unacceptable to be making public 'warnings' which amount to death threats - and to be printing them. The late Seh-Deang was out of control with his threats, gleefully printed by the media in unconscionable fashion, before taking a sniper's bullet that one imagines wouldn't have been fired from a government soldier's rifle - because he could just be arrested? And charged for so many crimes, it was ridiculous actually; that he wasn't. But if they wanted to neutralise him, they could just arrest him for treason - I don't think he was shot by the government; I think the government were happy for him to go on embarrassing his masters.

The ugliness leading up to the sham election and eventual coup was clearly evident on both sides. Note: the two sides were Sonthi v Thaksin, PAD v TRT. The other parties were all victims of the madness. Abhisit was attacked by violent crowds at the airport in Chang Mai for...his 'crime' of boycotting the election. Then 300 Thaksin supporters (claimed by locals to be from "out of town" - i.e. implying they were paid thugs) stormed the stage where Abhisit was making a speech and things got pretty ugly.

This was a power-play between Sonthi and Thaksin and both were way out of line. Sonthi's crowds commandeered the airport, as you may remember; albeit very peacefully. I flew in around that time, and there were unacceptable protests blocking traffic in the city centre for a couple of days by the PAD crowds. It was this pretext that led to the insanity of the Red Shirt riots that went for 7 weeks before the military ostensibly 'cracked' and started firing indiscriminately into the crowd (if you believe the pro-Thaksin media like Prachatai) - thankfully, these soldiers missed everybody basically. A miracle, for indiscriminate automatic rifles fired by professional soldiers. The PAD hijacking the national interests citing the national interest is the sort of slippery slope you cannot allow. But the Red Shirts arguments a few years later - the old "they did it first" justification - was an outrageous and childish excuse for responding with disproportionate terror and violence. But nevertheless, the PAD were way out of line. Sonthi was ruthless, but then it was a high-stakes game and who knows what secretive back-room dealing went sour between those two (former friends).

Then some monks got involved in some really - in my opinion - inappropriately political scathing criticism of Thaksin (very personal, emotive stuff). One imagines Buddhist interests are best served by not getting ferociously involved like that. They could take a cue from the monarchy, and stay above the fray.

In a single protest on 26 February 2006, Buddhist leader Sulak Sivaraksacalled Thaksin a pitiful dog and chairman of the northeastern teachers' group Auychai Watha called for Thaksin's children to "become whores infected with venereal disease."

This is just....the media shouldn't be reprinting it, it's outrageous and unfathomably disturbing that people who say these things are given a voice - or a loudspeaker - by the media.

Then there was a car bomb incident which was certainly not a genuine assassination attempt, but only heaven knows whether it was an attempt to threaten Thaksin or a complete frame job organised by Thaksin - logic leans slightly towards the latter, because the police who magically intercepted the car (good hunch?) started contradicting each other's stories. And if the military wanted to kill Thaksin, Thaksin would be the late PM Thaksin. It's pretty hard not to credit frank statements like this from the ISOC Deputy Director who was instantly fired by Thaksin over the incident:

Pallop denied all involvement, noting that "If had wanted to do it, I would have done it more subtly...In my career, I have led death squads. If I had wanted to kill him, the Prime Minister would not have escaped."

He makes a convincing argument.

The only thing that leaves me uncertain is that after the military coup, 3 of the 5 officers arrested over the incident were released - including the driver of the vehicle (Pallop's former driver), a Lieutenant who claimed he was paid 200 baht to drive the car about and around - 200 baht? <deleted>? My tipping must be out of control, housekeeping gets 500 or a 1000 from my embarrassed face from the mess in my hotel rooms - I could be hiring Army Lieutenants to drive cars full of explosives around.

However Jatuporn's reference to "US intelligence", presumably the CIA, gives rise to questions about collusion and breaches of security within the US government. The "mere idea" that anyone in the US government or CIA would say something like this to Jatuporn is serious, unless Jatuporn was just blustering and puffing in typical Thai style.

This is actually a little bit offensive and out of line. Because "blustering and puffing in typical Thai style" means what, exactly? Are you saying everyone does this sort of thing? That's it's a Thai trait?

I've never read or heard Abhisit or Korn or His Majesty say anything ridiculous or false. This blustering and puffing is a typically Thaksin style, who - after the 'attempt' on his life - claimed it was the third assassination attempt that week. When pressed for details, he didn't have any. This is the sort of thing the dignified element of Thai politics doesn't get involved in. I think it's offensive to call this sort of crap "typical Thai".

And Jutaporn, is breaking the law when he says this sort of nonsense. You cannot made libellous claims like this without referring the serious issue to those in charge of upholding the law. But he didn't tell Yingluck or the Defence Minister, or anyone - he told the media and no one makes him prove his filthy lies. This would not happen anywhere else - in Australia, if you claimed something like this and couldn't - or wouldn't - provide evidence, you'd be arrested.

BANGKOK: -- Pheu Thai MP Jatuporn Promphan should stop speculating about a coup in Thailand because such talk will only lead to serious problems, Defence Minister Sukumpol Suwanatat said yesterday.

"Jatuporn talks too much," he said in reference to the red-shirt leader's remarks on Wednesday claiming a power seizure would take place by April.

Although Jatuporn claimed he had heard about the coup from informants working for US intelligence, he doubted the authenticity of such report.

"I wonder why US intelligence chose to inform Jatuporn but not the government," he said. He said in his capacity as defence minister, he was duty-bound to foil any coup attempts.

----------

Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra said she had checked but found no intelligence report warning about a coup threat.

Jatuporn had the right to air his view and the military had already issued a rebuttal, Yingluck said, to allay anxiety.

She suggested that media professionals not hype the coup scare which could further drive a wedge in society.

The PM said she believed Jatuporn had good intentions in warning about the likelihood of a coup but the issue should be dropped after the military had confirmed its non-intervention stand.

Army chief General Prayuth Chan-ocha said he was unaware "which military units, which armed forces in what country" planned to stage a coup.

Prayuth urged anyone with evidence of a coup plot to file a complaint with police in order to activate legal proceedings against likely power usurpers.

-- The Nation 2012-02-10

It's just ridiculous. He's breaking multiple laws. He doesn't have the right to air slander and raise tensions when it's obvious he's lying, as his own Defence Minister points out - it's a ridiculous joke.

How long will the government, led by the party of which he's a member & MP, continue to stand for Jatupon's unhelpful claims ? Do they actually have the approval of the party-owner/leader ? Or will a Seh-Daeng moment occur ? Jatuporn seems to be stuck in a time-warp, continually trying to stir-up fears of unrest, without having noticed that it's now his own side which is currently running-things, and stands to suffer ?

The government isn't 'standing' for his claims, he's following specific orders from his masters. This isn't a Seh-Daeng situation; because Seh-Daeng was off his rocker. Jutaporn is just a liar. But everything he says is planned, Thaksin doesn't stand for renegades out of control.

It's getting a bit weird because the whole Nitirat thing is obviously Thaksin-sponsored, one wonders whether it was just a hit-and-hope effort or whether it was setup expressly for Yingluck and Chalerm to 'viciously' criticise - in order to show how loyal they are to the monarchy. Meanwhile, the media keeps referring to it as as this issue which has divided Thai society and is being fiercely debated. I could be wrong, but it seems the only people who are debating it are the media having arguments with themselves. Meanwhile, Prem and Yingluck are all smiles and reconciliation and love is in the air. Something shifty is going on, where there appears to be some clearly organised charades of internal 'disunity'. Nitirat and Chalerm getting into wars of words telling each other where to go - as if they weren't on the same team? Jutaporn is being told to shut up by a PTP Cabinet Minister whilst Yingluck speaks of his "good intentions" but now that the military has - not - issued a rebuttal but rather demanded Jutaporn follow the law instead of breaking it - ostensibly putting the nation's security at risk if he wasn't lying through his teeth - (PM Yingluck seemed confused about that the military refusing to take the bait), but she wants the whole affair dropped. She should drop him with a criminal charge for not informing her, the police or the Defence Minister. She went checking after hearing his theory, to see if there was an intelligence report ?

This is insulting stuff.