Fugitive Former PM Thaksin Voices Concern About Conflicts In Thailand

[OzMick]

A quick skim, shows this thread is a God-send for Thaksin Haters indoctrinated by his political enemies.

The Posts predictable tee off with this oppositional agenda.

I would be remiss however, if I at least didn't express my pet peeve, before vacating this thread.

Thaksin is not my issue or interest.

My pet peeve: The agenized misleading use of the descriptor 'fugitive'

This is agenda, pure and simple. I can already hear the Thaksin haters indignantly proclaiming that he is in fact a 'fugitive'.

No he's not!

Politically he is an exile, and this is political.

The term fugitive is laden with innuendo which the Opposition tries to project onto Thaksin. Everybody knows it is a term used for murderers, rapists, terrorists, etc., on the lam.

Used by political enemies, is an attempt to denigrate, besmirch, slander, villify and impugn criminal contemptuousness on a political enemy.

It is their fear of a political opponent which prompts this agenda

IMHO....and I'm outta this thread.

One thing you have never grasped, or refuse to continance,

is that Thakisns own words and actions have been more than

sufficiant reasons to dislike and distrust Thaksin 100%.

The opinions of his political opposites is only reinforcement

to easily understood reasoning. For those not so biased as to refuse reason.

As I understand it a 'fugitive' is a man (or woman) on the run from justice, which means a decision passed by a court of law, which is a higher authority than a mere politician. Now that 'fugitive' may be innocent but he (or she) is still a fugitive.

Where can he find a one-armed man?

Edited February 21, 2012 by OzMick

[tlansford]

If this charge was political, let's throw it away - for now - and ask Thaksin, "why don't you come back home?"

He will still not as there are other charges waiting. No doubt the apologists will claim they are all political. That is the problem with deeply religious people. They lack critical thinking around their faith.

I agree. I also do not think that Thaksin will come back without a negotiated deal that he does not have more charges filed. And whether that is good for Thailand or not, I can't say. But if a deal is struck I am pretty certain that the Thai people will not have a say in it.

Knowing that your religious comment is about political beliefs, i don't take offense as Rubl did. Although you are often correct about religious people, I know that there are some who can also be objective about their religious beliefs.

[tlansford]

.

My pet peeve: The agenized misleading use of the descriptor 'fugitive'

This is agenda, pure and simple. I can already hear the Thaksin haters indignantly proclaiming that he is in fact a 'fugitive'.

No he's not!

Politically he is an exile, and this is political.

The term fugitive is laden with innuendo which the Opposition tries to project onto Thaksin. Everybody knows it is a term used for murderers, rapists, terrorists, etc., on the lam.

Thaksin is a fugitive because he is a convicted criminal on the run from justice. Its not a political issue for this failed politician its a legal one.

You see CalgaryII this is why you lack credibility,

Waza, it sounds like you hold the viewpoint that Thaksin's conviction was not politically motivated. If that is true, then you would be right in calling him a fugitive.

If, on the other hand, his conviction (rightly or wrongly) was politically motivated, then he is a political exile.

It just depends on your point of view.

If it was a political conviction why did he attempt to bribe the judiciary with a chocolate box full of money? Maybe it was a finacially motivated conviction, lol. Also if it was a political conviction why is it still standing with his sister and all his henchmen in government?. They could change the constitution to make his crimes legal. Maybe they are afriad of the military? If that is so maybe he should build his own private army, set up his own war room and start a civil war, but.

The former premier said the political conflict has been continuing in Thailand, the 2006 coup was a tragedy to democracy, and some parts of the constitution are unfair. However, the fugitive premier believes forgiveness is the key to reconciliation in the country.

What am I saying, Thaksin loves himself Thailand too much and money the Thai people to do that, it wouldnt be democratic. We can take this convicted criminal and fugitive from justice at his word when, "He insisted he will not take revenge against others".

As mentioned, it depends on your point of view. My own is that it was political, but also likely that he was guilty. By saying it was political, means that I don't think he was going to get a fair trial - guilty or not. And it is, not, IMO, the worst crime that he could be convicted of.

[animatic]

I love that Calgaryll lives in deny.

It's a lifestyle choice.

But rest assure it IS a choice.

Just as Thaksin made a choice; make a runner under false pretenses.

[animatic]

.

My pet peeve: The agenized misleading use of the descriptor 'fugitive'

This is agenda, pure and simple. I can already hear the Thaksin haters indignantly proclaiming that he is in fact a 'fugitive'.

No he's not!

Politically he is an exile, and this is political.

The term fugitive is laden with innuendo which the Opposition tries to project onto Thaksin. Everybody knows it is a term used for murderers, rapists, terrorists, etc., on the lam.

Thaksin is a fugitive because he is a convicted criminal on the run from justice. Its not a political issue for this failed politician its a legal one.

You see CalgaryII this is why you lack credibility,

Waza, it sounds like you hold the viewpoint that Thaksin's conviction was not politically motivated. If that is true, then you would be right in calling him a fugitive.

If, on the other hand, his conviction (rightly or wrongly) was politically motivated, then he is a political exile.

It just depends on your point of view.

If it was a political conviction why did he attempt to bribe the judiciary with a chocolate box full of money? Maybe it was a finacially motivated conviction, lol. Also if it was a political conviction why is it still standing with his sister and all his henchmen in government?. They could change the constitution to make his crimes legal. Maybe they are afriad of the military? If that is so maybe he should build his own private army, set up his own war room and start a civil war, but.

The former premier said the political conflict has been continuing in Thailand, the 2006 coup was a tragedy to democracy, and some parts of the constitution are unfair. However, the fugitive premier believes forgiveness is the key to reconciliation in the country.

What am I saying, Thaksin loves himself Thailand too much and money the Thai people to do that, it wouldnt be democratic. We can take this convicted criminal and fugitive from justice at his word when, "He insisted he will not take revenge against others".

As mentioned, it depends on your point of view. My own is that it was political, but also likely that he was guilty. By saying it was political, means that I don't think he was going to get a fair trial - guilty or not. And it is, not, IMO, the worst crime that he could be convicted of.

The motivation to charge him was both political and purely legal.

Having a political component does NOT mean the legality is unjust.

His conviction was legal and the wording announcements of the voting

showed that, to dispel to the public the reality of political ranting around it.

The only leg he has to stand on to fight this, besides his money,

is pushing the political angle as hard as he can, other wise it's stay self-exiled or do the time.

His ego won't do the time, he'd rather destroy the country, than lose face over 2 years in jail,

that he could have bribed into total comfort.

Edited February 22, 2012 by animatic

[tlansford]

- sniper -

Waza, it sounds like you hold the viewpoint that Thaksin's conviction was not politically motivated. If that is true, then you would be right in calling him a fugitive.

If, on the other hand, his conviction (rightly or wrongly) was politically motivated, then he is a political exile.

It just depends on your point of view.

If it was a political conviction why did he attempt to bribe the judiciary with a chocolate box full of money? Maybe it was a finacially motivated conviction, lol. Also if it was a political conviction why is it still standing with his sister and all his henchmen in government?. They could change the constitution to make his crimes legal. Maybe they are afriad of the military? If that is so maybe he should build his own private army, set up his own war room and start a civil war, but.

The former premier said the political conflict has been continuing in Thailand, the 2006 coup was a tragedy to democracy, and some parts of the constitution are unfair. However, the fugitive premier believes forgiveness is the key to reconciliation in the country.

What am I saying, Thaksin loves himself Thailand too much and money the Thai people to do that, it wouldnt be democratic. We can take this convicted criminal and fugitive from justice at his word when, "He insisted he will not take revenge against others".

As mentioned, it depends on your point of view. My own is that it was political, but also likely that he was guilty. By saying it was political, means that I don't think he was going to get a fair trial - guilty or not. And it is, not, IMO, the worst crime that he could be convicted of.

The motivation to charge him was both political and purely legal.

Having a political component does NOT mean the legality is unjust.

His conviction was legal and the wording announcements of the voting

showed that, to dispel to the public the reality of political ranting around it.

The only leg he has to stand on to fight this, besides his money,

is pushing the political angle as hard as he can, other wise it's stay self-exiled or do the time.

His ego won't do the time, he'd rather destroy the country, than lose face over 2 years in jail,

that he could have bribed into total comfort.

You think that it is political and just. When I say it was political, even if I think that he was probably guilty, I think that his opponents did not leave anything at risk regarding the result. As others noted, he himself apparently tried to make sure it was not fair. I can't imagine that his opponents did not take measures to assure the same.

Which means that I think it was highly unlikely that he received a fair trial. Nothing more, nothing less.

Hence, if he returns, it will likely be due to a negotiation which, for Thaksin, will mean that he won't face more charges. What he will have to assure in return is anybody's guess.

[Buchholz]

Fugitive Former PM Thaksin Voices Concern About Conflicts In Thailand Serving His Time In Thailand

[animatic]

He broke the law,

he was convicted,

he absconded while on bail,

he didn't appeal the conviction.

But the real threat to him is the other charges he has stalled by refusing to enter the system for this simple charge he is convicted of. That is what the negotiations are about. He couldn't even stop this charge from conviction while his own proxy government was in power.

The other charges are much more serious. He's worried if he went in for the 2 years, out in 11 months for good behavior, would suddenly become life (at his age) in stir for the combined charges.

Edited February 23, 2012 by animatic

[blows]

He broke the law,

he was convicted,

he absconded while on bail,

he didn't appeal the conviction.

But the real threat to him is the other charges he has stalled by refusing to enter the system for this simple charge he is convicted of. That is what the negotiations are about. He couldn't even stop this charge from conviction while his own proxy government was in power.

The other charges are much more serious. He's worried if he went in for the 2 years, out in 11 months for good behavior, would suddenly become life (at his age) in stir for the combined charges.

They should have tried him and convicted him in absentia on the other charges.

[airconsult]

He broke the law,

he was convicted,

he absconded while on bail,

he didn't appeal the conviction.

But the real threat to him is the other charges he has stalled by refusing to enter the system for this simple charge he is convicted of. That is what the negotiations are about. He couldn't even stop this charge from conviction while his own proxy government was in power.

The other charges are much more serious. He's worried if he went in for the 2 years, out in 11 months for good behavior, would suddenly become life (at his age) in stir for the combined charges.

Normally I would stay silent on this.... water under the bridge and all that...

Dancing around the fact that it is illegal to criticise judge's decisions...

Who placed the highest bid for the land?

Who has later had the money refunded (plus 10% interest per year)?

Who wrote the law saying that a husband must countersign a wife's land purchases? (it's been on the books for a long time)

And finally - what amount of influence did Thaksin have over the FIDF? The FIDF was supervised by the Governor of the Bank of Thailand, who was appointed by the military junta to be Minister of Finance in the interim government of 2006 - there was a lot of speculation at the time that they would propose him as interim PM.

Just to clarify, the Chairman (Governor) of the Bank of Thailand is not appointed by the elected government.

Cheers

[Buchholz]

^ perhaps best addressed by reopening one of the other previous 829 threads on the specifics of Thaksin's conviction.

.

[airconsult]

^ perhaps best addressed by reopening one of the other previous 829 threads on the specifics of Thaksin's conviction.

.

You're right, I apologise - I guess I have read and seen many worse things than that done by elected officials (including the subject person) in many countries, so sometimes I get a bit sick of people hammering that particular conviction so much.

Cheers

[Buchholz]

^ perhaps best addressed by reopening one of the other previous 829 threads on the specifics of Thaksin's conviction.

.

You're right, I apologise - I guess I have read and seen many worse things than that done by elected officials (including the subject person) in many countries, so sometimes I get a bit sick of people hammering that particular conviction so much.

Cheers

No worries.

The "worse things" cases are on standby for his return.

If he had not fled and was not a fugitive, there would likely have been more than this particular conviction for people to hammer away on.

.

[animatic]

He broke the law,

he was convicted,

he absconded while on bail,

he didn't appeal the conviction.

But the real threat to him is the other charges he has stalled by refusing to enter the system for this simple charge he is convicted of. That is what the negotiations are about. He couldn't even stop this charge from conviction while his own proxy government was in power.

The other charges are much more serious. He's worried if he went in for the 2 years, out in 11 months for good behavior, would suddenly become life (at his age) in stir for the combined charges.

Normally I would stay silent on this.... water under the bridge and all that...

Dancing around the fact that it is illegal to criticise judge's decisions...

Who placed the highest bid for the land?

Who has later had the money refunded (plus 10% interest per year)?

Who wrote the law saying that a husband must countersign a wife's land purchases? (it's been on the books for a long time)

And finally - what amount of influence did Thaksin have over the FIDF? The FIDF was supervised by the Governor of the Bank of Thailand, who was appointed by the military junta to be Minister of Finance in the interim government of 2006 - there was a lot of speculation at the time that they would propose him as interim PM.

Just to clarify, the Chairman (Governor) of the Bank of Thailand is not appointed by the elected government.

Cheers

I'll try and correct your faulty logic.

You state;

"Governor of the Bank of Thailand,

who was appointed by the military junta to be Minister of Finance

in the interim government of 2006"

This statement clearly invalidates your attempted point,

because the crime he was convicted of was BEFORE the coup.

So there was no appointed by junta person in the FIDF.

Q ) How can Thaksin be the PM and thus be in conflict of interest,

if the coup has already happened?

A ) He can't.

Edited February 23, 2012 by animatic

[animatic]

^ perhaps best addressed by reopening one of the other previous 829 threads on the specifics of Thaksin's conviction.

.

You're right, I apologise - I guess I have read and seen many worse things than that done by elected officials (including the subject person) in many countries, so sometimes I get a bit sick of people hammering that particular conviction so much.

Cheers

No worries.

The "worse things" cases are on standby for his return.

If he had not fled and was not a fugitive, there would likely have been more than this particular conviction for people to hammer away on.

.

And the main reasons for all the violence and political gamesmanship

is not the 2 years conviction, but the fact being in jail for that

prevents him from stalling all the other 7 more serious cases from going forward.

He would be brought to court regularly by prison officials, no delays no excuses,

and thus the stalled ones would start up and the others would commence.

His only choice is to force Thailand into a deal to make it all go away,

or rewrite the constitution to make it all go away, and that means

calling it political often and loudly so he can lump himself in with

all other political figures potential cases, and through all charges

out with the wash.

Thing is there are many who'd rather face their charges than let him off the hook.

Because Thaksin getting off scot free would swell his ego to unmanagible

proportions, and that makes for an unmanageable sense of hubris, fearlessness

and naked power over others to continue his face rebuilding.

Face is built in Thailand by lowering others, while building up yourself.

Sometimes that can be rather dangerous for those being lowered.

Edited February 23, 2012 by animatic

[TAWP]

He broke the law,

he was convicted,

he absconded while on bail,

he didn't appeal the conviction.

But the real threat to him is the other charges he has stalled by refusing to enter the system for this simple charge he is convicted of. That is what the negotiations are about. He couldn't even stop this charge from conviction while his own proxy government was in power.

The other charges are much more serious. He's worried if he went in for the 2 years, out in 11 months for good behavior, would suddenly become life (at his age) in stir for the combined charges.

They should have tried him and convicted him in absentia on the other charges.

I agree, but that isn't the law here.

[rixalex]

^ perhaps best addressed by reopening one of the other previous 829 threads on the specifics of Thaksin's conviction.

.

You're right, I apologise - I guess I have read and seen many worse things than that done by elected officials (including the subject person) in many countries, so sometimes I get a bit sick of people hammering that particular conviction so much.

Cheers

You seem to be of the opinion that the conviction is fairly trivial. The fact that this crime carries a two year prison sentence suggests the justice system doesn't agree with your opinion. Personally i think two years should have been doubled when the accused attempted to bribe the court. It wasn't increased and i seem to recall the refused bribe money was actually returned. Then of course he fled. Should have had his sentence doubled again for that. Takes us to eight years. Time off for good behaviour, might get away with three or four. Of course that works on the assumption of him ever accepting punishment, which i think we can safely say he never will, as he is amart and considers himself above the law.

[rixalex]

No wonder I am inclined to avoid Thaksin hater threads.

I don't think anyone would be required to wonder about why you are inclined that way. It's blindingly obvious.

[CalgaryII]

No wonder I am inclined to avoid Thaksin hater threads.

I don't think anyone would be required to wonder about why you are inclined that way. It's blindingly obvious.

I sincerely hope so.

[Ricardo]

<snip for brevity>

A political figure like him railroaded out of the country by his fearful political enemies is an exile.

<snip for brevity>

"railroaded out of the country by his fearful political enemies"

In the interests of Truth & Justice, you might care to check who was in-government, at the time former-PM Thaksin asked the court for permission to attend the opening-ceremony of the Beijing-Olympics, and subsequently failed-to-return.

It was PPP, one of his own nominee-parties, not the military-junta appointed-government.

And it was the disgraced former-PM, who freely chose not to return, thus "exile" should more-correctly read "self-exile".

[CalgaryII]

<snip for brevity>

A political figure like him railroaded out of the country by his fearful political enemies is an exile.

<snip for brevity>

"railroaded out of the country by his fearful political enemies"

In the interests of Truth & Justice, you might care to check who was in-government, at the time former-PM Thaksin asked the court for permission to attend the opening-ceremony of the Beijing-Olympics, and subsequently failed-to-return.

It was PPP, one of his own nominee-parties, not the military-junta appointed-government.

And it was the disgraced former-PM, who freely chose not to return, thus "exile" should more-correctly read "self-exile".

Yeah, Ok

Self-exile it is then.

Kicking ass in elections > self exile.

Got it.

Ms. Y better be careful....winning elections is injurious to ones political health.

She has one under her belt.

I wonder how many it will take, and she will be the biggest criminal the whole world has ever known.

What was it....three for Thaksin, and the judicial sword fell?

If that is correct, Ms. Y has two to go.

Edited February 23, 2012 by CalgaryII

[Buchholz]

When I spoke of 'indoctrinated Thaksin haters" little did I realise how insightful and precise I was.

I saw an earlier Post referencing over 800 threads of and by Thaksin Haters.

Over 800 threads!,,, un-------believable.

Don't feel left out. There were Thaksin Lovers posts on all of them

btw, None of the threads were "by" Thaksin haters. They were all by Admin.

.

Edited February 23, 2012 by Buchholz

[CalgaryII]

When I spoke of 'indoctrinated Thaksin haters" little did I realise how insightful and precise I was.

I saw an earlier Post referencing over 800 threads of and by Thaksin Haters.

Over 800 threads!,,, un-------believable.

Don't feel left out. There were Thaksin Lovers posts on all of them

.

Everybody needs some love!

[Buchholz]

When I spoke of 'indoctrinated Thaksin haters" little did I realise how insightful and precise I was.

I saw an earlier Post referencing over 800 threads of and by Thaksin Haters.

Over 800 threads!,,, un-------believable.

Don't feel left out. There were Thaksin Lovers posts on all of them

.

Everybody needs some love!

Yep, even fugitive tyrannical despots.

.

[CalgaryII]

When I spoke of 'indoctrinated Thaksin haters" little did I realise how insightful and precise I was.

I saw an earlier Post referencing over 800 threads of and by Thaksin Haters.

Over 800 threads!,,, un-------believable.

Don't feel left out. There were Thaksin Lovers posts on all of them

.

Everybody needs some love!

Yep, even fugitive tyrannical despots.

.

Fugitive, tyrannical despots = indoctrination.

Thaksin haters are irrevocably catagorized by me.

[Reasonableman]

Categorised, actually, and then its still nothing more than meaningless pretentious verbiage. Your fugitive lack of education keeps on shining through.

[metisdead]

A post containing a false statement has been removed.

[waza]

When I spoke of 'indoctrinated Thaksin haters" little did I realise how insightful and precise I was.

I saw an earlier Post referencing over 800 threads of and by Thaksin Haters.

Over 800 threads!,,, un-------believable.

Don't feel left out. There were Thaksin Lovers posts on all of them

.

Everybody needs some love!

Here another glimpse at your honesty, CalgaryII, you miss the truth of your obvious lie when you excluded Buchholz comment.....

"btw, None of the threads were "by" Thaksin haters. They were all by Admin."

This is why you and your comments have no credibility.

[Reasonableman]

And are devoid of candour and integrity. Lies may be OK where you come from, but most TVF posters are expressing their genuine opinions. You, however, are pushing an agenda regardless of the facts. It reflects badly not only on you, but the agenda you are promoting. Your utility for this cause is way past its use by date.

[Nickymaster]

How do you call a person that starts something (change the constitution) that everybody knows will create conflicts and division and then says: "I am worried about conflicts in Thailand, I hope all Thais can reconcile"?

I believe such a person is called a hypocrite.

Edited February 24, 2012 by Nickymaster