Chuwit Demands Govt Take Action To Stamp Out Prostitution In Thailand

[z12]

The difficulty here is in defining who is a prostitute and who isn't. My first encounter with my Thai wife was a financial one, in other words I paid her to have sex with me. But I could just have easily have become married to an estate agent, a hotel receptionist, a manager of an Internet cafe or an optician. I did not pay for sex with them, but all these ladies had one thing in common, they intended to meet and marry a farang to improve their lives and the lives of their families. All are graduates including my spouse. They were from Chonburi, Sri Racha, Bangkok, Phuket and Khorat so no preponderance of Isaan

Can you truly differentiate between these 5 ladies? At the end of the day they will all cost you money in one way or another.

But that's life. Ladies from all parts of the globe sell their bodies in one guise or another. Even women who are of independent means often turn to their male partners for financial support.

Prostitution is here to stay. In UK it's endemic. The important thing is to make sex as safe as possible, and to try to dissuade very young people from engaging in it.

Yes, good observations. A good friend of mine, who is the director of a major foundation here in Bangkok, that helps women infected with HIV told me that per capita, there are more than double the amount of woman involved in the sex trade in the US, than there is here in Thailand. But, the problem is that it is so far underground, that most people do not see it, and therefore assume it does not exist. But there are hundreds of thousands of people invoiced in porn, and I estimate a couple of million escorts and strippers. Also, in the US you cannot get laid, without putting out cash for dinners, gifts and prizes. So, even the normal gals there have a price. It is just less honest, since it is not stated up front. When I was dating back there I often thought it would be a good idea, to bring along a pen and a notebook, hand it to the woman, and ask her for an estimate, of what she thought it was going to end up costing me to get some action.

In Thailand, for instance, a survey in 1990 found that 75 percent of Thai men had had sex with child prostitutes

http://www.psychohis...6a1_incest.html

Edited February 14, 2012 by z12

[spidermike007]

Obviously he is well qualified to talk on this topic, since he made his own substantial fortune from prostitution and there were credible allegations that his massage parlours recruited under age girls to be sold to wealthy customers as a "premium product". Unless he sets a good example by turning himself in for prosecution and confessing to all his crimes, this is all just hot air.

That would be asking a Thai to take responsibility for his actions. When was the last time you saw that happen? When was the last time you saw a Thai turn himself in? When was the last time you saw a Thai admit he has done wrong, or broken the law, or caused someone harm? It simply does not happen here. He is a swine. He is a pervert. He is a low life form, that is now enjoying a prominent political position due to his connections. As is always the case in Thai politics his appointment had nothing to do with merit. It was all about contacts, and connections. For us to listen to him lecturing about morality, is like us listening to Ted Bundy about kindness, or us listening to Kim Jung IL about how to run an effective society, or listening to an American leader about world peace.

[z12]

End prostitution, outlaw marriage, make women pay their own way. It should be illegal for women to charge for sex.

Edited February 14, 2012 by z12

[Pseudolus]

Perhaps all the public hypocrisy is for the benefit of the mom and pops up in the north east who would really love to believe their little darling is indeed clearing 40k a month as a waitress serving cocktails in a reputable bar? Of course they would mostly prefer not to admit that their pride and joy is not selling her ass 5 times a night to the taxi and truck drivers on holiday from the rest of the world, so this kind of story might help them sleep a little better. In actual fact, i think they know and don't really care as long as the brown notes keep getting dumped into their bank accounts and they don't have to try that hard themselves to stay alive. Prostitution really is a foil for natural selection in many ways.

[SomTumTiger]

16k view - sex sells, especially among the Thai Sexpats.

[kerryk]

"the colourful politician said he would go to the US Embassy today to provide information on human trafficking."

Why go to the U.S Embassy what has it got to do with the U.S, They aren't the worlds police or have authority in Thailand.

The guys intentions are probably good but I get the feeling that he may have signed his own death warrant. I lot of powerful and currupt people in Thailand will not like what he plans to do.

The streets do need to be cleaned up a lot with prostitution in your face 24/7 and the image doesn't really fit that of a family holiday destination.

You better contact Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton and tell them......they both "think" they are the worlds police. Both always have a comment on what they consider to be their business no matter where in the world the issue is.

I never figured that one out. Soft George and US politicians are both against prostitution; at least in your face prostitution. Matter a fact most times one hears anti US rhetoric here you can almost bet that poster is solidly a member of the moral majority; you know the, “hang em high bunch.”

Chuwit has it right. The only ones who give a flip about in your face prostitution in Thailand are US politicians in an election year and Soft George.

[kerryk]

16k view - sex sells, especially among the Thai Sexpats.

Say it ain't so. I would not have classified SomTumTiger as a Sexpat!

[kerryk]

Perhaps all the public hypocrisy is for the benefit of the mom and pops up in the north east who would really love to believe their little darling is indeed clearing 40k a month as a waitress serving cocktails in a reputable bar? Of course they would mostly prefer not to admit that their pride and joy is not selling her ass 5 times a night to the taxi and truck drivers on holiday from the rest of the world, so this kind of story might help them sleep a little better. In actual fact, i think they know and don't really care as long as the brown notes keep getting dumped into their bank accounts and they don't have to try that hard themselves to stay alive. Prostitution really is a foil for natural selection in many ways.

Don't worry Adam. Mom and pop never get more than 5 thousand baht a month and 90% of the farmers daughters only speak Thai and work in a Thai establishment. Only 1 in 10 ladies in the business ever meets a Farang. But for discussion sake lets say lovely Lek was doing 5 Farang a night in Bangkok. That would work out to 5 million baht a year or so.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

If nobody wants to sell sex, it is a crime to force anyone to do so. But when men or women do want to sell their bodies, they should have that full right without encountering punishment or discrimination. If the client behaves decently, the relationship between the sex buyer and the sex seller must be considered a purely private transaction.

But the hi-so elite here could never agree to that coming into the open, they want it to remain illegal so they deny it's such a huge part of the economy and real culture here, and so that so many of them can continue to skim money from the corruption opportunities.

"the colourful politician said he would go to the US Embassy today to provide information on human trafficking."

Why go to the U.S Embassy what has it got to do with the U.S, They aren't the worlds police or have authority in Thailand.

You're dreaming, of course the US is the world's police, but only in the areas they care about (=corporate profits). The sex industry in general isn't one of them, but child-sex traficking is, and the US, along with most western governments put a lot of money into combatting this aspect, both through their law enforcement resources and funding of NGOs that directly target those areas that intersect with western customers.

Every effective arrest and prosecution you see here, in Cambodia Laos etc came about because of pressure and funding from western embassies.

That's why so many Thai brothels (coffee houses, barbershops, short-time hotels etc) that have underage workers are off-limits to farang - usually foreign Asian customers are no problem, because their governments aren't applying the same pressures.

> The guys intentions are probably good but I get the feeling that he may have signed his own death warrant. I lot of powerful and currupt people in Thailand will not like what he plans to do.

Apparently he's untouchable because of the extensive blackmail files he has on the rich and powerful, which he's arranged to become public in the event of his sudden "accidental" death.

He probably has a lot of powerful and corrupt people watching his back to make sure he doesn't get run over by a bus 8-)

[captspectre]

Stamping it out is simply impossible, perhaps better to try to discourage under-age prostitution, and to send a stronger message to the world's pedophiles, to go elsewhere ?

just who did he employ in HIS massage parlors? boys? what a hipocrate

[sparebox2]

"the colourful politician said he would go to the US Embassy today to provide information on human trafficking."

Why go to the U.S Embassy what has it got to do with the U.S, They aren't the worlds police or have authority in Thailand.

The guys intentions are probably good but I get the feeling that he may have signed his own death warrant. I lot of powerful and currupt people in Thailand will not like what he plans to do.

The streets do need to be cleaned up a lot with prostitution in your face 24/7 and the image doesn't really fit that of a family holiday destination.

If you feel strongly about it, you should lodge a complaint at the nearest police station. Good luck with that.

Begging for a 2nd chance to get a US visa. Last application - REJECTED.

[TackyToo]

This clown is nuts. A not so good joke.

You are not a cop, are you?

[silsburyhill]

The only reason there is Prostitution in thailand is because foreigners keep going there, No foreigners NO prostitution......Simple really.

I take it that is meant sarcastically, yes? No one is so stupid to really believe that, yes?

The only reason there is Prostitution in thailand is because foreigners keep going there, No foreigners NO prostitution......Simple really.

I take it that is meant sarcastically, yes? No one is so stupid to really believe that, yes?

"course it's sarcasm. I remember years ago whichsoever cartload of monkeys then calling themselves The Government stating that 'if foreigners did not come to Thailand to buy sex, there wouldn't be any prostitution'.

The worrying thing is, they may actually believe the tripe they spout ...

[wolf5370]

All this may be moot if Chewit loses his parliamentary position on Feb 25th http://www.nationmul...5-30175679.html

Edited February 14, 2012 by wolf5370

[z12]

The only reason there is Prostitution in thailand is because foreigners keep going there, No foreigners NO prostitution......Simple really.

I take it that is meant sarcastically, yes? No one is so stupid to really believe that, yes?

"course it's sarcasm. I remember years ago whichsoever cartload of monkeys then calling themselves The Government stating that 'if foreigners did not come to Thailand to buy sex, there wouldn't be any prostitution'.

The worrying thing is, they may actually believe the tripe they spout ...

No doubt, as in this movie quote.

Hank: "Do you actually believe the crap that comes out of your mouth?"

Earl: "I'm not really sure until I'm finished talkin'."

National Security (2003)

Edited February 14, 2012 by z12

[SteeleJoe]

If nobody wants to sell sex, it is a crime to force anyone to do so. But when men or women do want to sell their bodies, they should have that full right without encountering punishment or discrimination. If the client behaves decently, the relationship between the sex buyer and the sex seller must be considered a purely private transaction.

No problem with that. Prostitution is worldwide where there are legal brothels visited by the desparate and lonely. In Thailand it is out in the open, move it into brothels and behind closed doors away from public view. The sex tourist can enter the brothel, dump his load and move on. The girls won't be druugging the victim inside a brothel where he will pass out for hours as they need the bed for the next punter. The punter won't be fleeced of all the valuables unless he is stupid enough to take them all to the brothel. A brothel would be more controlled

It seems you have had some unfortunate experiences. Perhaps you should consider raising the class of establishment and/or partner, as many of us who have lived many years don't seem to have had similar problems.

You must also realise that ALL of the young ladies with whom I have discussed the matter, do not consider themselves to be prostitutes, and the thought of working in a "knocking shop" would be quite abhorrent. The Thai word for prostitute is so-pee-nee. If you shoould choose to use that to refer to a bar-girl or massage parlour attendant the result might well be quite ugly.

Your inference regarding the difference in being a brother worker and a bar girl is pretty spot on. Brothels in Thailand are where the worst abuses are taking place; at the very least girls are servicing multiple clients in one day (a bar girl typically doesn't) have no choice about which customers she services (a bar girl typically does) and are getting only a portion of the money the customer pays (the bar girl typically gets 100% -- and that %100 could be in some situations virtually unlimited; eg she may wind up with a major sponsor or 2. Or a wealthy husband) .

Sometimes the situation for a brothel worker is very grim indeed (forced to work, not allowed to use condoms, imprisoned, physically abused...things that are less likely or prevalent if not impossible for someone working in a bar).

Sure, if brothels were legalized they could -- in theory -- regulate them and make sure it's a decent working environment etc. But at the end of the day, it would be straight ahead sex for sale when in fact many sex workers in Thailand not only sell far more than sex (or seem to) but often sell sex that seems much less impersonal and mercenary than what I'm guessing a typical brothel worker might offer (I honestly wouldn't know) -- hence a significant reason why people fly around the world to find prostitution even though it exists much closer to home. As such, arguably their lifestyle is in some respects potentially better than that of a worker in a brothel. And yes, they can think of themselves as freer,more empowered and somehow better than just a prostitute. And perhaps not without cause.

No there is a vast array of types of commercial sex offered in this country. Some far less palatable (to say the least) than others. To think that ensuring that it's all of one type -- unadulteratedly (sic) commercial and factory like -- is going to be unconditionally a general improvement...I don't think so. And while I'm thinking about the life of the sex worker, SoftGeorge seems to be concerned with the welfare of the (foreign ) consumer so I'll point out that the vast majority of them would NOT be interested in going to brothel (and being customer no. ?) rather than, for example, going for some beers and meeting a girl who charms them and becomes their their GF for the night...or longer.

[SteeleJoe]

Contrary to a common belief, studies from a few years ago have shown that 80% of the prostitution business were purely local (thai customers, thai owners, thai sex workers). I'll try to find the link and update this post with it.

I'd like to see that report -- because 80% is lower than nay estimate I've seen before (by the UN and Chula University among others) and contrary to empirical evidence (and logic).

[SteeleJoe]

Another issue is "freedom to choose". This assumes no economic duress, no physical duress, no family or social pressures, and a world of other options from which to choose "freely". Like a choice between becoming a doctor, an architect, a lawyer, a politician, or a prostitute. There MAY be some who "want" to sleep with a variety clients for money, who are willing to risk physical abuse and disease, but I doubt that the majority have a free choice about it, and are obliged to do so due to socio-economic circumstances they cannot control.

Just an opinion, others welcome.

Sure. No argument there. And in a better -- perhaps achievable world -- a young person would always have better choices than being a prostitute.

But does the average Thai construction worker or servant have a choice to become a doctor, an architect, a lawyer, or a politician instead? Aren't there millions of people all over the world doing horrible jobs -- or just jobs they hate -- because of socio-economic circumstances they cannot control? Or other limitations that most of us face (eg opportunity, education, whatever)?

1) Most of us have done or are doing stuff that we never would have if it weren't for economic need. How much worse it may be -- after looking at cost/benefit -- than selling your body, is relative and debatable.

2) Some would say that all things considered, there are worse jobs than being a prostitute (hence, in some cases, their choice to be one -- rather than a maid, street cleaner...).

Edited February 14, 2012 by SteeleJoe

[SteeleJoe]

If gambling and prostitution was such an important part of the GDP, do you not think that it would be legal and advertised?

Uhmmm...Read up on the phenomena of (illegal and unadvertised) underground economies and then that of this country: some say Thailand's is the largest in the world.

[pastitche]

All this may be moot if Chewit loses his parliamentary position on Feb 25th http://www.nationmul...5-30175679.html

You don't think that is why he is trying to make himself an unassailable hero of the people, fighting against corruption in its various guises?

[SteeleJoe]

In fact; 99% of the young girls & guys coming from the country-side to places like Bangkok, Pattaya, etc. have NO intentions at all to enter the "flesh-trade". However; after weeks of being turned-down for all sorts of menial jobs, they eventually are left with little alternatives. Don't forget the "unwritten-law" of having to send back money to Mum & Dad & Grandma etc. ! !

This puts heaps of pressure on this youngsters to "earn money".

And you can hardly blame them for wanting a life other than in the country-side . . . . . . THAT is a hopeless & totally bereft of any future proposition - I don't blame them.

Believe me: it's the "people with little or no education" which is the real problem here. If the Thai government would improve the level of education [and somehow improve the funding for schools and teachers (!!!)] - we would see a significant drop in prostitution and a huge increase in employment (the RIGHT) kind of employment.

99%?! Where on earth did you come up with such an absurd caim?!

Not. Even. Close.

It's a long known fact verified in dozens of studies (Thai and foreign) that there are plenty of young men and women who come to the cities with the specific intention of working in the sex trade and I know of no evidence whatsoever that thsoe who don't typically spend weeks trying to get menial jobs only to be refused.

And your second paragraph doesn't make much sense in economic terms, I don't think:

Certainly better education and thus greater opportunity would potentially alter the circumstances in which the sex trade currently thrives (leaving aside for the moment that by no means whatsoever are all that work in the trade from poor families or insufficiently educated to get the same sort of job as most Thais have) -- but you claim even menial jobs are unavailable but somehow good jobs (superior to any kind of prostitution) would magically be there for everyone if they all had better educations?

[wolf5370]

If gambling and prostitution was such an important part of the GDP, do you not think that it would be legal and advertised?

Uhmmm...Read up on the phenomena of (illegal and unadvertised) underground economies and then that of this country: some say Thailand's is the largest in the world.

Why? As I suggested it is NOT part fo the GDP of the country - the fact that some people make money from it (and of course do not pay tax on it as it is illegal and there isn't a box on the tax form for illegal income I believe). My point still stands - what you say (by reversing my statement) is exactly the same point - its unadvertised and illegal - and that's how those earning from it (top of the pyramid) want it to stay.

Edited February 14, 2012 by wolf5370

[wolf5370]

All this may be moot if Chewit loses his parliamentary position on Feb 25th http://www.nationmul...5-30175679.html

You don't think that is why he is trying to make himself an unassailable hero of the people, fighting against corruption in its various guises?

Very likely - although he didn't have any qualms being vocasl against some of his old compadres before the complaint was put in either - speaking out against police, gambling dens and so on.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

I'd like to see that report -- because 80% is lower than nay estimate I've seen before (by the UN and Chula University among others) and contrary to empirical evidence (and logic).

Maybe I misunderstand you but you think that catering to foreigners involves **less** than 80% of the industry in Thailand?? I think that number is actually unrealistically high. Considering the male population is what 30 million +, and the majority of Thai men are regular punters, that would put require a heck of a lot of sex tourists to put a dent - perhaps taking into account that they frequent establishments with higher turnover as opposed to farang-style 'me love you long time', or perhaps they're not counting gay guys or??

The foreign part of the business is a tiny fraction, nowhere near 20%. . .

[SteeleJoe]

If gambling and prostitution was such an important part of the GDP, do you not think that it would be legal and advertised?

Uhmmm...Read up on the phenomena of (illegal and unadvertised) underground economies and then that of this country: some say Thailand's is the largest in the world.

Why? As I suggested it is NOT part fo the GDP of the country - the fact that some people make money from it (and of course do not pay tax on it as it is illegal and there isn't a box on the tax form for illegal income I believe). My point still stands - what you say (by reversing my statement) is exactly the same point - its unadvertised and illegal - and that's how those earning from it (top of the pyramid) want it to stay.

Why? Because your posit that industries that are not legal or advertised must not be important parts of the GDP is completely unfounded and illogical. Thailand's underground economy may account for as much as 70% of the GDP. What is certain is that it's massive.

[SteeleJoe]

I'd like to see that report -- because 80% is lower than nay estimate I've seen before (by the UN and Chula University among others) and contrary to empirical evidence (and logic).

Maybe I misunderstand you but you think that catering to foreigners involves **less** than 80% of the industry in Thailand?? I think that number is actually unrealistically high. Considering the male population is what 30 million +, and the majority of Thai men are regular punters, that would put require a heck of a lot of sex tourists to put a dent - perhaps taking into account that they frequent establishments with higher turnover as opposed to farang-style 'me love you long time', or perhaps they're not counting gay guys or??

The foreign part of the business is a tiny fraction, nowhere near 20%. . .

The post said (in part):

Contrary to a common belief, studies from a few years ago have shown that 80% of the prostitution business were purely local (thai customers, thai owners, thai sex workers). I'll try to find the link and update this post with it.

I said 80% was low. Do I think that catering to foreigners involves **less** than 80% of the industry in Thailand? Of course I do. How was that not obvious? Implicit in my comment is the belief (based on a fair amount of study - albeit of quite a while back) that it is less than 20%.that it is less than 20%.

Edited February 14, 2012 by SteeleJoe

[maidu]

Chuwit's grandstanding is similar to the stock blurb from unscrupulous people who want to suck in donations for start-up do-good foundations. In many cases, they get photos of disadvantaged/crippled kids, put them in a brochure/web site, make the lecture tour, and rake in donations. Whether they actually do any good for the kids is doubtful. When money comes in, they first line their own pockets.

Talking about eradicating child prostitution is another 'hot button' issue - similar to mentioning a campaign to eradicate corruption in gov't, or traffic gridlock in Bkk. Everyone likes to hear it, but when the rhetoric dies away, the reality stays much the same. Chuwit, like Thaksin before him, is grandstanding with hopes of gaining notoriety and wealth, and it will probably work for Chuwit like it worked for Thaksin - with scant advamtage for the little people.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Seeing that this guy ranked pretty high among Thaivisa members in pre-election surveys on this forum, I can only imagine his ratings in the expat community will plummet...

[Sateev]

That's the sort of negative attitude that we can do without. Of course it's possible to stamp it out. It will be extremely difficult, but it's possible to clean it up. We need people like Chuvit to make a stand. It takes time to get these things done, but at least he's making a start, which is more than you're doing, which is sniping from the comfort of your armchair.

Who's 'we', Kimosabe? You got a mouse in your pocket?

Really tiresome seeing all the moralists come out of the woodwork.

Chuwit was not only the Massage Parlor Magnate, but the guy who bulldozed an entire block of bars on Sukhumvit in the wee hours, resulting in massive property loss for those who could hardly afford it. And now, the land lies fallow, as "Chuwit Garden". What was the point?

I can only assume he is attempting to be a pain in the ass to those in power, who sanction the very activities he is protesting.

If he were sincere, he'd be saying "Stamp out corruption, and prostitution will take care of itself..."

"Chuwit was not only the Massage Parlor Magnate, but the guy who bulldozed an entire block of bars on Sukhumvit in the wee hours, resulting in massive property loss for those who could hardly afford it. And now, the land lies fallow, as "Chuwit Garden". What was the point?"

Well depends on what sort of spin you want to put on it.

Another way of looking at it, he removed squatters from land he already owned.

As for the land being fallow, there was a sign at the enterance last time I was there that says its a memorial to his mother.

Its one of the few places in that area where its possible to escape the madness of the surrounding area.

There's no spin. I was there, and the people you claim were 'squatters' had valid agreements as sub-lessees. The lessor was in dispute with Chuwit, and he used police/military to raze the place in the wee hours, without ANY notice to those whose livelihoods were lost overnight.

While I'm sure you appreciate the peace and quiet afforded by his memorial park, between bouts of whatever it is you do in that part of Sukhumvit, the fact remains that his original reason/pretext for flattening the place was to build another commercial property there.

Of course, you are entitled to your fantasies.

[kerryk]

Who was the guy that squashed Clinton Plaza or is that what you are all talking about?