More People In Thailand Lose Jobs Due To Last Year's Flood Crisis

[webfact]

More people lose jobs due to flood crisis

The Nation

BANGKOK: -- The number of workers who lost their jobs due to last year's flood crisis rose to 45,873, Labour Protection and Welfare Department's directorgeneral Arthit Isamo said yesterday.

So far, 284 factories employing some 162,552 workers are still closed. However, 120 establishments have paid out Bt2.255 billion in severance pay, he said, adding that another 5,124 workers have been laid off this week. The largest number of layoffs has been recorded in Ayutthaya, Pathum Thani and Chacheongsao.

Arthit said the number of laidoff workers should not exceed 100,000. By the end of March, the overall figure should be clearer because businesses have to come up with new budgets to support the 40percent wage hike that would go into effect nationwide from April 1. This means the daily minimum wage would be Bt300 in seven provinces, including Bangkok, Samut Sakhon and Pathum Thani.

Arthit said Sony Device Technology (Thailand) in Pathum Thani's Bang Kradi Industrial Estate was planning to temporarily move its 2,749 workers to Bangkok's Bang NaTrat area, while its unit in Ayutthaya's Ban Wa Industrial Estate has given its 3,823 workers the chance to decide if they will move to Chon Buri. So far, 2,123 have agreed to move, while 1,267 resigned and the rest remain undecided.

-- The Nation 2012-02-18

[Nisa]

This is sad news. I have to admit, if these figures are accurate, I truly didn't think this many companies and workers would be effected for this long. I really thought they had more time to prepare for the floods and it would just be a month of intense clean-up for many companies. I wonder if part of the issue is lack of availability of the right workers that are needed for clean-up, maintenance, electrical and all that.

[Reasonableman]

A lot of heavy machinery was damaged. Some businesses packed up and left, I believe. Confidence has been severely shaken. These figures are not so surprising, in that context.

This is sad news. I have to admit, if these figures are accurate, I truly didn't think this many companies and workers would be effected for this long. I really thought they had more time to prepare for the floods and it would just be a month of intense clean-up for many companies. I wonder if part of the issue is lack of availability of the right workers that are needed for clean-up, maintenance, electrical and all that.

[zakk9]

Isn't it amazing how Thai authorities always manage to come up with figures that are "exact" down to the last decimal whenever there's a disaster going on? I mean... considering the fact that very few things are really very exact in the Land of Smiles?

I agree that it's sad new, but it's probably only the tip of the iceberg. The loss of future investments due to lack of confidence is probably much more severe.

[Nisa]

Isn't it amazing how Thai authorities always manage to come up with figures that are "exact" down to the last decimal whenever there's a disaster going on? I mean... considering the fact that very few things are really very exact in the Land of Smiles?

I agree that it's sad new, but it's probably only the tip of the iceberg. The loss of future investments due to lack of confidence is probably much more severe.

I don't think there is any serious and worrisome lack of confidence to speak of. When you have a natural disasters like this. It takes a dip and then comes right back for the most part, especially when it is a rare occurrence. Thailand has already regained its "top 20 global destinations for foreign direct investment" position back in late December. Japan on the other hand which is plagued with long lasting worries is also where most investments are coming from followed by China.

As for the numbers. After doing some research on other figures, I am convinced these too come from surveys but in these Thailand news reports that don't mention things like margin of error or polling sample as is often done in the West.

Edited February 18, 2012 by Nisa

[Reasonableman]

Because the figures are probably fudged (estimated to the nearest credible digit). It is not mathematically precise, despite appearances, and is distorted by political interests at all levels. Hence widespread "suspension of belief". Pseudo-facts.

Isn't it amazing how Thai authorities always manage to come up with figures that are "exact" down to the last decimal whenever there's a disaster going on? I mean... considering the fact that very few things are really very exact in the Land of Smiles?

I agree that it's sad new, but it's probably only the tip of the iceberg. The loss of future investments due to lack of confidence is probably much more severe.

I don't think there is any serious and worrisome lack of confidence to speak of. When you have a natural disasters like this. It takes a dip and then comes right back for the most part, especially when it is a rare occurrence. Thailand has already regained its "top 20 global destinations for foreign direct investment" position back in late December. Japan on the other hand which is plagued with long lasting worries is also where most investments are coming from followed by China.

As for the numbers. After doing some research on other figures, I am convinced these too come from surveys but in these Thailand news reports that don't mention things like margin of error or polling sample as is often done in the West.

[Bakseedaa]

A lot of heavy machinery was damaged. Some businesses packed up and left, I believe. Confidence has been severely shaken. These figures are not so surprising, in that context.

This is sad news. I have to admit, if these figures are accurate, I truly didn't think this many companies and workers would be effected for this long. I really thought they had more time to prepare for the floods and it would just be a month of intense clean-up for many companies. I wonder if part of the issue is lack of availability of the right workers that are needed for clean-up, maintenance, electrical and all that.

Hello Burma.....get their electric problems resolved and hello Japanese industry.... Goodbye the Hub of corruption....

[bluebluewater]

^ Amen to that. From everthing I have been reading Burma is the place to be right now. If I were thinking about building a plant or rebuilding from what the floods had damage here I think I would be looking elsewhere.

[geriatrickid]

Hello Burma.....get their electric problems resolved and hello Japanese industry.... Goodbye the Hub of corruption....

Burma has no logistics network and is 5-10 years away from being able to provide the quality and the products required by western markets.

Japan is still in deep trouble due to the earthquake and tsunami. It's electric grid is shakey and many of its manufacturing facilities are operating under difficult conditions. Throw in the Japanese labour problems due to an aging population and you will find Japanese firms looking to locate anywhere except Japan.

[geriatrickid]

^ Amen to that. From everthing I have been reading Burma is the place to be right now. If I were thinking about building a plant or rebuilding from what the floods had damage here I think I would be looking elsewhere.

Burma doesn't have a trained workforce. Nor does it have a logisitics network of warehouses, reliable transport links, port facilities etc.

Burma is still politically far more unstable than Thailand. Don't get fooled by all the western/Burmese hugging and handshakes.

[Reasonableman]

With huge natural gas reserves and as yet undeveloped tourism and natural resources, it is well- poised to move very quickly. Not to be discounted easily as a future economic power to rival LOS. That's a very mixed blessing, however, as we have seen with "development" in other "underdeveloped" countries.

^ Amen to that. From everthing I have been reading Burma is the place to be right now. If I were thinking about building a plant or rebuilding from what the floods had damage here I think I would be looking elsewhere.

Burma doesn't have a trained workforce. Nor does it have a logisitics network of warehouses, reliable transport links, port facilities etc.

Burma is still politically far more unstable than Thailand. Don't get fooled by all the western/Burmese hugging and handshakes.

Edited February 18, 2012 by Reasonableman

[trainman34014]

And the jobless figure after the 2012 floods will be..........?

[TheGhostWithin]

I am not in Thailand at the moment, so have to ask these questions:

Are the army being used to assist in the cleanup still? Ideally, they could provide logistical support and oversight of the group below.

Are prisoners from the prison being used to make up for the lack of free and willing man power on the ground?

Are those locals who suffered damage to their homes and workplaces being employed, or re-employed as temporary state workers to assist in the clean up until either they are re-employed by their previous employer or the government deems clean up in that area complete, at which time if slots were possible the workers could be taken to assist in other areas?

Are these same people being given the opportunity to build new flood defense systems for the next rainy season, to keep a step ahead of the ball so no-one is flooded in this year too.

Has the government spoken with industries affected about up skill training as a way to bypass those factories which are still closed, and intend on continuing operations in Thailand?

Some probably are being done, but the government has now forgotten the floods, not even bothered to notice that they have lost competitiveness over their fast gaining rival Vietnam, or the awarding of contracts which will ensure a more competitive Cambodia being awarded to it by the UN, or the investment which is flowing out of Thailand (both capital and equity investment) and going straight to Burma and have moved onto what Yingluck had for lunch when she was supposed to be at government, and presumably asking who she was there to meet?

[pisico]

With huge natural gas reserves and as yet undeveloped tourism and natural resources, it is well- poised to move very quickly. Not to be discounted easily as a future economic power to rival LOS. That's a very mixed blessing, however, as we have seen with "development" in other "underdeveloped" countries.

^ Amen to that. From everthing I have been reading Burma is the place to be right now. If I were thinking about building a plant or rebuilding from what the floods had damage here I think I would be looking elsewhere.

Burma doesn't have a trained workforce. Nor does it have a logisitics network of warehouses, reliable transport links, port facilities etc.

Burma is still politically far more unstable than Thailand. Don't get fooled by all the western/Burmese hugging and handshakes.

• 
  
• Recently Myanmar has offered 8 years of tax exemption to some investments in the country. That may be the beginning of what could be the rebuilding of the country and emergence of a seious comptetion for Thailand.
  
• For too long Thailand has taken for granted that this country is the number 1 "hub" of investment in SEA.
  
• In the 90s Thailand was the fastest developing economy in the world. Corruption kept pace with the economy. We still see the corruption in the processing of work permits, at the ports, customs and immigration. It began to spread then and nowadays we see it at street level. Nothing has been done and will not be done because every administration has vested interests in the status quo.
  
• Thailand has dismal safety records, not only in traffic, electrocutions and safety of tourists, but also in civil defense (flood preparedness, standards for electrical installations, building and zoning, etc.). Add to that and their laid back attitude regarding personal safety, and that of others. It is becoming common knowledge in the world no matter what TAT says. Thailand is not a safe place for a pedestrian tourist. Motorcycles riding on sidewalks, motorists oblivious to the presence of pedestrians at crosswalks even at red lights, motorcyclists riding with one hand, while on the mobile phone, without helmets and with 2 or more people on board: all at the same time! That should make any sane person cringe. The attitude of the police when a foreigner is affected by criminal activities is appaling. The list of what ails this country and can bring about a recession is long and sad. All this is a matter of record in the news and even here in TV where many members have stated that in numerous postings. Taking for granted the success of yore taints a country that has a rich culture, good decent people as a whole, and its potential of a better future. What I dread the most is a few years from now is to say: Thailand could have been...
  
• Of course that whatever Farangs say about the current situation will have no bearing on the course of the events. One hope that someone in authority some day will bother to read what those foreigners are saying about our country. Then again, will that ever happen?
  
• 
  

[whybother]

I am not in Thailand at the moment, so have to ask these questions:

Are the army being used to assist in the cleanup still? Ideally, they could provide logistical support and oversight of the group below.

Are prisoners from the prison being used to make up for the lack of free and willing man power on the ground?

Are those locals who suffered damage to their homes and workplaces being employed, or re-employed as temporary state workers to assist in the clean up until either they are re-employed by their previous employer or the government deems clean up in that area complete, at which time if slots were possible the workers could be taken to assist in other areas?

Are these same people being given the opportunity to build new flood defense systems for the next rainy season, to keep a step ahead of the ball so no-one is flooded in this year too.

Has the government spoken with industries affected about up skill training as a way to bypass those factories which are still closed, and intend on continuing operations in Thailand?

Some probably are being done, but the government has now forgotten the floods, not even bothered to notice that they have lost competitiveness over their fast gaining rival Vietnam, or the awarding of contracts which will ensure a more competitive Cambodia being awarded to it by the UN, or the investment which is flowing out of Thailand (both capital and equity investment) and going straight to Burma and have moved onto what Yingluck had for lunch when she was supposed to be at government, and presumably asking who she was there to meet?

What cleanup?

[Nisa]

And the jobless figure after the 2012 floods will be..........?

With about 35 million people of working age in Thailand, these numbers out of work due to the flood are minuscule. The flooding also has created numerous jobs.

[Chopperboy]

Hello Burma.....get their electric problems resolved and hello Japanese industry.... Goodbye the Hub of corruption....

Burma has no logistics network and is 5-10 years away from being able to provide the quality and the products required by western markets.

Japan is still in deep trouble due to the earthquake and tsunami. It's electric grid is shakey and many of its manufacturing facilities are operating under difficult conditions. Throw in the Japanese labour problems due to an aging population and you will find Japanese firms looking to locate anywhere except Japan.

Also Burma is hard to import essential supplies into - you need to use agents and the tax is high. If you send money to Burma they take 10% straight of the top. A BOI company in Thailand can import parts at 0% tax. If Burma introduces something like the BOI (foreign ownership, Tax holidays for 10 years etc) its going to take off big time due to location & resources incl labour.

[DGS1244]

This is sad news. I have to admit, if these figures are accurate, I truly didn't think this many companies and workers would be effected for this long. I really thought they had more time to prepare for the floods and it would just be a month of intense clean-up for many companies. I wonder if part of the issue is lack of availability of the right workers that are needed for clean-up, maintenance, electrical and all that.

Having been heavily involved in Loss Control activities in many of the flooded industrial estates I can assure you these figures are ony the tip of the iceburg. Many of the facortoies will never return, they have had enough and are planning to relocate to other countries, as for the others some machinery will take two years to replace and by then the trained emplyees will be long gone. people seem to forget that many of these facotories supplied others down the line, now they cannot produce, the knock on effect will be tremendous. One facory alone supplies the majoritory of the world's camera bodies, try buying a new digital camera shortly and see what happens.

Further some of the loss is being replaced by imports, all that will do is increase costs, reduce profits and create an even worse situation, cost of living set to rise guaranteed.

[marstons]

Isn't it amazing how Thai authorities always manage to come up with figures that are "exact" down to the last decimal whenever there's a disaster going on? I mean... considering the fact that very few things are really very exact in the Land of Smiles?

I agree that it's sad new, but it's probably only the tip of the iceberg. The loss of future investments due to lack of confidence is probably much more severe.

I don't think there is any serious and worrisome lack of confidence to speak of. When you have a natural disasters like this. It takes a dip and then comes right back for the most part, especially when it is a rare occurrence. Thailand has already regained its "top 20 global destinations for foreign direct investment" position back in late December. Japan on the other hand which is plagued with long lasting worries is also where most investments are coming from followed by China.

As for the numbers. After doing some research on other figures, I am convinced these too come from surveys but in these Thailand news reports that don't mention things like margin of error or polling sample as is often done in the West.

Probably because everybody knows nothing will get done to stop it happening again, money will be issued and filtered away into the pigs troughs. also the minimum wage is a big issue, companies like Sanyo have said well we need to re kit the whole factory, newer technology is here lets do it else where. Vietnam will leave thailand in its trail, then theres Myramar and Cambodia. As Sanyo said the skills they need can be easily taught in other countries. then of course the civil unrest. Personally if i were the CEO of a wiped out company, all stock gone, all machinary needing replacing i would be doing it else where. massive insentives to build in neighbouring countries, and its fair to say no civil unrest there, and minimum wages of half the cost. i agree the tip of the ice berg.

[marstons]

RIP the goose that laid the golden egg.

arrogance beyond belief, incompetance at its finest during the floods, it must have had the CEO's of the companies effected weeping.

same incompetance and arrogance still strongly in evidance with the recent terrorist threat.

[TackyToo]

Isn't it amazing how Thai authorities always manage to come up with figures that are "exact" down to the last decimal whenever there's a disaster going on? I mean... considering the fact that very few things are really very exact in the Land of Smiles?

I agree that it's sad new, but it's probably only the tip of the iceberg. The loss of future investments due to lack of confidence is probably much more severe.

That's why even Thai companies are headed for Myanmar to avoid floods and exorbitant wages of 300 THB a day!

[Nisa]

Isn't it amazing how Thai authorities always manage to come up with figures that are "exact" down to the last decimal whenever there's a disaster going on? I mean... considering the fact that very few things are really very exact in the Land of Smiles?

I agree that it's sad new, but it's probably only the tip of the iceberg. The loss of future investments due to lack of confidence is probably much more severe.

I don't think there is any serious and worrisome lack of confidence to speak of. When you have a natural disasters like this. It takes a dip and then comes right back for the most part, especially when it is a rare occurrence. Thailand has already regained its "top 20 global destinations for foreign direct investment" position back in late December. Japan on the other hand which is plagued with long lasting worries is also where most investments are coming from followed by China.

As for the numbers. After doing some research on other figures, I am convinced these too come from surveys but in these Thailand news reports that don't mention things like margin of error or polling sample as is often done in the West.

Probably because everybody knows nothing will get done to stop it happening again, money will be issued and filtered away into the pigs troughs. also the minimum wage is a big issue, companies like Sanyo have said well we need to re kit the whole factory, newer technology is here lets do it else where. Vietnam will leave thailand in its trail, then theres Myramar and Cambodia. As Sanyo said the skills they need can be easily taught in other countries. then of course the civil unrest. Personally if i were the CEO of a wiped out company, all stock gone, all machinary needing replacing i would be doing it else where. massive insentives to build in neighbouring countries, and its fair to say no civil unrest there, and minimum wages of half the cost. i agree the tip of the ice berg.

Already things being done about it and has been for a a long time. They have completed and continue to create infrastructure including huge underground tunnels over the last decade.Let us not forget that Thailand experienced a 50 year high rainfall too and companies are not too concerned with similar rains possibly happening in another 50-years.

Bottom line is what you and I think is irrelevant as real investors continue and will continue to pour money into Thailand over the coming year.

[stickyrice2000]

Thailand is on a downward trend. Burma will definitely drag some businesses out of Thailand due to cheap labor and strong potential growth for businesses. With tourists being scammed from many corners, the country is losing its charm and beauty. Tourists will visits Thailand less often than before. Also, Thailand has too many problems including natural disaster, political unrest and terrorists. Like the old saying what goes up must come down.

[thaicbr]

And the jobless figure after the 2012 floods will be..........?

With about 35 million people of working age in Thailand, these numbers out of work due to the flood are minuscule. The flooding also has created numerous jobs.

They MAY be minuscule in the big picture BUT bear in mind that these job losses are in very small areas SO affecting a great many more people with business etc. The fact that many factories are delaying complete rebuilding tells us a lot about their confidence in this Governments ability to counter another expected flood this year.

[mayday49]

A multinational Japanese copy machine manufacturer has chosen the Philippine Islands as a new location for a state of the art facility. The number of jobs offered will rise to more than 5,500 personnel. Reason for location..........English speaking work pool.......and education base is deep. and Burma what a Joke! Wake up Guys! People are starting say things about your Hillbilly Haiku...

[thanchart]

This is sad news. I have to admit, if these figures are accurate, I truly didn't think this many companies and workers would be effected for this long. I really thought they had more time to prepare for the floods and it would just be a month of intense clean-up for many companies. I wonder if part of the issue is lack of availability of the right workers that are needed for clean-up, maintenance, electrical and all that.

Many companies in Pathum Thani (Bangkadi Ind Park) were not prepared for the floods - not to the level the water came up to. In my case, we had expected maybe 1 m of water but it went above 2~2,5m. Entire 1st floors of literally all the factories were destroyed,

For us, most of the exoensive machnes (all on 1st floor were destroyed) expect thise we had moved to to an old factory (fortunately not yet sold) the day before the floods came in. Those stwuff we had place on tables (floor was akready 1m above the ground level outside) were all submerged.

I'm still amazed how the company (being Thai) manged to recover (mostly) from the flood and move on, buying new much equipment and re-startup. I can see many companies in that Industrial park still not really fully operatiional. Who says all Thai mgt are bad? My expreicne is vrey different, and ironically I have more confidence in the Mgt now than before the floods. We have moved back but retain the old factory as a smaller ooertation, just in case.

Edited February 18, 2012 by thanchart

[Chopperboy]

For us, most of the exoensive machnes (all on 1st floor were destroyed) expect thise we had moved to to an old factory (fortunately not yet sold) the day before the floods came in. Those stwuff we had place on tables (floor was akready 1m above the ground level outside) were all submerged.

I'm still amazed how the company (being Thai) manged to recover (mostly) from the flood and move on, buying new much equipment and re-startup. I can see many companies in that Industrial park still not really fully operatiional. Who says all Thai mgt are bad? My expreicne is vrey different, and ironically I have more confidence in the Mgt now than before the floods. We have moved back but retain the old factory as a smaller ooertation, just in case.

If the machinery was replaced that quickly, then it can't have been that sophisticated! The equipment lost by the big guys is likely high precision, custom made, computer controlled stuff which would need to be ordered and re-manufactured overseas. That equipment would take 9+ months to appear.

Edited February 18, 2012 by Chopperboy

[thanchart]

^ Amen to that. From everthing I have been reading Burma is the place to be right now. If I were thinking about building a plant or rebuilding from what the floods had damage here I think I would be looking elsewhere.

Go and see for yrself,. Would you risk losing all the manies you have and put them there? If yr answers is sincere Yes. then perhaps. What seems to be the place to be may not be what it really is - at least at this point in time, For a country that just opened up, its gonna take a while before they are truly so.

China took a while to get there after Deng XiaoPing declared it open,. If obnly you jnow of the billions lost before policies were adjusted to make it work and commercial compnanies can start to make real profits.

[thanchart]

For us, most of the exoensive machnes (all on 1st floor were destroyed) expect thise we had moved to to an old factory (fortunately not yet sold) the day before the floods came in. Those stwuff we had place on tables (floor was akready 1m above the ground level outside) were all submerged.

I'm still amazed how the company (being Thai) manged to recover (mostly) from the flood and move on, buying new much equipment and re-startup. I can see many companies in that Industrial park still not really fully operatiional. Who says all Thai mgt are bad? My expreicne is vrey different, and ironically I have more confidence in the Mgt now than before the floods. We have moved back but retain the old factory as a smaller ooertation, just in case.

If the machinery was replaced that quickly, then it can't have been that sophisticated! The equipment lost by the big guys is likely high precision, custom made, computer controlled stuff which would need to be ordered and re-manufactured overseas. That equipment would take 9+ months to appear.

that is what you think, We are an ELectroinics manufacurer. Machines are not cheap to replace. What made the difference was a Mgt team and CEO who got right down to work the very next day when the floods came and flooded the factories to the 1st level. They did not waut for the insurance companies or any HQ to give approval. Plans were in place and execution almost immediate. And along the ways, there were modififcations made as the situtations got better or worse. Customers visited us and help shaped the direction with their perpectives.

<p>For a company to be able to recover fully by April when the original target was end of the year, it is a wonderful sight to behold. Honesltly I doubt a similar Wesern or Jap company can move as qiuickl

[thanchart]

For us, most of the exoensive machnes (all on 1st floor were destroyed) expect thise we had moved to to an old factory (fortunately not yet sold) the day before the floods came in. Those stwuff we had place on tables (floor was akready 1m above the ground level outside) were all submerged.

I'm still amazed how the company (being Thai) manged to recover (mostly) from the flood and move on, buying new much equipment and re-startup. I can see many companies in that Industrial park still not really fully operatiional. Who says all Thai mgt are bad? My expreicne is vrey different, and ironically I have more confidence in the Mgt now than before the floods. We have moved back but retain the old factory as a smaller ooertation, just in case.

If the machinery was replaced that quickly, then it can't have been that sophisticated! The equipment lost by the big guys is likely high precision, custom made, computer controlled stuff which would need to be ordered and re-manufactured overseas. That equipment would take 9+ months to appear.

that is what you think, We are an ELectroinics manufacurer. Machines are not cheap to replace. What made the difference was a Mgt team and CEO who got right down to work the very next day when the floods came and flooded the factories to the 1st level. They did not wiut for the insurance companies or any HQ to give approval. Plans were in place and execution almost immediate. The moenies required to execute the plan was also found by the CEO (thai sure make things a lot easier), And along the way, there were modififcations made to the plans as the situtations got better or worse. Customers visited us and help shaped the direction with their perpectives. We also shifted urgent production to oiur China facitory which was forced to grow 4x in `hust 1 quarter,

For a company to be able to recover fully by April when the original target was end of the year, it is a wonderful sight to behold. Honesltly I doubt a similar Wesern or Jap company can move as qiuickly as we did, HQ approvl they need often takes time, and this to mem is money and time lost that we can never get back.

Maybe having one factory to build up, while the flooded factories were being restored has helped, but I thjnk the speed ata which decisions were made and exectuted is the big difference.

The good thing that came out of this situation is that it gave us the chanceto change how things were done - in ways we could not do before,. Some call it reegineering. Its gonna take a lot of hard work and steeely determination, but we will get there. We will coine out leaner and stronger

Edited February 18, 2012 by thanchart