New Visa Rules For Fathers Of Thai Children

[elliss]

The children are the real victims. The father has to explain to his child that the government has decided that they are not entitled to have a father. But then the children are considered "Lube koong", so their undesirables anyway.

[justaphase]

"so their undesirables anyway."

Hmm.. just like most of the stars in Thailand. Models, actors, singers.

Depends if they're dragged up shoeless in a dust bowl i suppose.

My son's already got offers and he's just 10 months. :-)))))))))))))))))))))))))

[samsiam]

My son's already got offers and he's just 10 months. :-)))))))))))))))))))))))))

You take offers for your child ??

Auctions work better....tenders might also suit.

.

Edited March 4, 2012 by samsiam

[brizzle]

been to the Thai Embassy today in K.L to apply for the visa. The story is correct they will stop issuing the visa's to farangs based solely on being a parent. A birth certificate alone is not acceptable. I was asked if I was married to the mother and I said no. I was also asked about my relationship with my son. It appears that you will not have any problems if you can prove your relationship with the mother of the child, I presented a letter form my partner stating that we had been living as husband and wife (defacto) for 7 years and we both provide equal support to the child. I also prented a copy of her I.D card and house book along with the document stating that I have been legally recognised as the father. You would be in a even better position if you took the wife and child along with you but this is not always possible.

To cut the story short if you applying for the visa and present just a birth certificate you will not get it, the girl at the counter stated that this will be enforced from May.

They told me that they will issue me the visa based on all the combined evidence that I provided. So unless they changed thier minds in the next 24 hours I will collect it tomorrow afternoon.

Thanks for that softgeorge,

Have i got this right?

From what you are saying if I visit the Royal Thai consulate in Cardiff with my partner(not married) and child (where I have received Non 'o' visa's for the last 3 years) then providing I can show I have been continually living with them both since my last visit as a ''husband'' and father both in Thailand and the UK this should, in theory at least ,help my case?

I can produce evidence of pre schooling amongst other things here in Thailand and our passports for the last 5 years show that we travel everywhere as a family together between both countries as well as many destinations in S E Asia.

I realise that nothing is written in black and white but it does sound from your experience that maybe common sense might prevail if you can prove beyond all doubt that you are raising your child together with the Thai mother?

[maprao]

Why would the consulate ask to post a letter here? Shows everyone reads this forum. Every time the visa rules are changed it is probably because people advertise how to "get around things on here". Consulates read this Forum and you can bet Immigration does also!

Just my 2 pennies worth.

Edited March 4, 2012 by maprao

[champken]

Just watch, next it will be you need to have been married for at least 5 years

Seriously though, why is property (condo) ownership not taken into account when applying for a non o visa?

[cowslip]

insane - why not cut off your nose to spite your face? or rather the child's nose - the father may be the main source of support for the child. probably in breach of international law too.

[Mario2008]

insane - why not cut off your nose to spite your face? or rather the child's nose - the father may be the main source of support for the child. probably in breach of international law too.

Neither insane or in breach of international law. All the Thai government wants is that a father legitimises his child and so recognises his own child as his. Most governments will want that.

[brizzle]

insane - why not cut off your nose to spite your face? or rather the child's nose - the father may be the main source of support for the child. probably in breach of international law too.

Neither insane or in breach of international law. All the Thai government wants is that a father legitimises his child and so recognises his own child as his. Most governments will want that.

Well yes Mario which is exactly what the vast majority of unmarried fathers on this forum want .... but the irony of it all.... about 7 days after the birth of our baby I walked into the local Amphur with both her and her mother in order to do just that..to be named on the birth certificate as her proud father and to take full legal responsibility for her future upbringing .At the time (like so many other proud dads no doubt) I thought I had indeed done enough to legitimise my daughter, but as we all now know the same Thai government that so badly wants us to recognise our children as our own also want to make it incredibly difficult to complete the legitimisation process...unless of course you marry the mother.

And what does marrying the mother prove...nothing. History has shown that many married men have and are actually caring for another mans child where the spouse has been unfaithful.

Now the Thai government have decided to bring in this latest twist regarding the visa to the unmarried fathers list of woes.

I am sorry but if this is the Thai governments way of protecting the child then I am having a very difficult time trying to understand

their reasoning.

[ALFREDO]

I am in Vientiane in the moment.

Yesterday, I went to the Thai Consular section with my Thai GF and our two Thai children. I am named in their birth certificate but i am not the legal father.

I decided to go for a Double entry Tourist Visa and filled the papers accordingly, but I wrote also, as reason for my Visa my children and enclosed the.

birth certificates in copy.

I thought, I will let the lady in the office their decide what she wants to give me.

The lady, seeing my written reason for the Tourist Visa and the birth certificates, told me, she could not give me a Tourist visa or double Tourist Visa, instead, she asked if my family is with me and took from my GF copy from ID card and house book

I think I will get a Non Immigrant O, my first , for sure I will know today, anyway, I payed 2.000 Baht.

Will write more after Pick Up.

[Mario2008]

The process of legitimizing your children is indeed more complicated that in a lot of other countries. A lot of countries would accept the declaration of both parents. But difficult the process is not, although it can be costly to go to court. Certainly for a lot of Thai people that i know that make less than 10,000 baht a month.

That the mother doesn't have to proof that she is the mother is logical. She is the one carrying the child untill birth, that she is the mother is not in question.

[4evermaat]

I am in Vientiane in the moment.

Yesterday, I went to the Thai Consular section with my Thai GF and our two Thai children. I am named in their birth certificate but i am not the legal father.

I decided to go for a Double entry Tourist Visa and filled the papers accordingly, but I wrote also, as reason for my Visa my children and enclosed the.

birth certificates in copy.

I thought, I will let the lady in the office their decide what she wants to give me.

The lady, seeing my written reason for the Tourist Visa and the birth certificates, told me, she could not give me a Tourist visa or double Tourist Visa, instead, she asked if my family is with me and took from my GF copy from ID card and house book

I think I will get a Non Immigrant O, my first , for sure I will know today, anyway, I payed 2.000 Baht.

Will write more after Pick Up.

This would suggest that a different written reason like Tour would have been more appropriate. In other words, although you had a reason to be in thailand, the proof you provided fell in the "wrong" category bracket. Surprised they didn't just give it to you anyway. My friend gets single entry visas in Vientiane all the time, this was well before and after multiple entry ED visa. I think his reasons are unstated or just "tour" I will ask him. His passport is loaded with back-to-back visits to thailand.

insane - why not cut off your nose to spite your face? or rather the child's nose - the father may be the main source of support for the child. probably in breach of international law too.

Neither insane or in breach of international law. All the Thai government wants is that a father legitimises his child and so recognises his own child as his. Most governments will want that.

It's funny, after this thread I did some searching. It turns out that in the USA, most states are exactly the same for unwed parents. The mother is always assumed to be the legal mother, given full custody, etc. but the father has to prove himself to be the LEGAL father for child support and visitation rights, etc.

Edited March 6, 2012 by 4evermaat

[Mario2008]

Of course it is, otherwise the mother could just claim that Mr. X is the fahter and demand child support, or mister X could just claim he is the fahter and demand visitation rights etc.

[maprao]

What happens if your wife passes away and you are legally married? And the child is yours and hers not adopted. Does this mean no more Non Imm O visas?

[Mario2008]

You would qaulify based on having a Thai child.

The new rule only is that you need to be the LEGAL father, when married you are that automatically. The fact that the mother is dead doesn't change that.

[ALFREDO]

4evermaat

You are right, if I had nothing written about my children and would they not have been with me at the Consulate I would with good chance had gotten a Tourist Visa, Double possible. But instead, of get rejected to get a Non Immigrant O, I prefered to get rejected a Tourist Visa and offered the Non Immigrant O instead. Last autumn in Singapore, it was the other way around, I was alone in Singapores Thai Embassy and could only get a Tourist Visa.

[mussen]

4evermaat

You are right, if I had nothing written about my children and would they not have been with me at the Consulate I would with good chance had gotten a Tourist Visa, Double possible. But instead, of get rejected to get a Non Immigrant O, I prefered to get rejected a Tourist Visa and offered the Non Immigrant O instead. Last autumn in Singapore, it was the other way around, I was alone in Singapores Thai Embassy and could only get a Tourist Visa.

Hi Alfredo, so did you end up getting the Non-o ?

[Jayman]

this isn't in anyway some special "thai" thing to make life hard on farangs. by the definition of having a child out of wedlock makes this child illegitimate. To legitimize the child you must petition the courts.

http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=define:illegitimate%20child

[Danielsiam]

I don't understand the Alfredo, he get this visa Non "O" ?

So, about me, I have the original of birth certificate of my son, original birth certificate of mother, & copy of Tabian ban but just name of the mother, & her copy ID card.

I have a high change to get a Non-O visa at Vientiane ?

.

And so, two months ago my friend who have baby too get a non O visa at Monaco, small country inside the France just with one copy of BC !. ( so my friend & me, we're not legimitzed our baby )

[Jayman]

I don't understand the Alfredo, he get this visa Non "O" ?

So, about me, I have the original of birth certificate of my son, original birth certificate of mother, & copy of Tabian ban but just name of the mother, & her copy ID card.

I have a high change to get a Non-O visa at Vientiane ?

.

And so, two months ago my friend who have baby too get a non O visa at Monaco, small country inside the France just with one copy of BC !. ( so my friend & me, we're not legimitzed our baby )

It seems that only Hull and a few other consulates "might" be enforcing this now. Some have stated that will take more broader effect on May 1 but my contacts at the NYC embassy still maintain that they will issue a non-imm o to a father if he can demonstrate he is the father and they re-iterated that a birth cert of the child with fathers name on it was good enough for them.

I think that every consulate office can interpret the rules how they see fit and this is why I always recommend emailing the desired office to get their current requirements for your situation and then you print out the email and bring it with you when you apply. Just the way I do it and I have never been disappointed by the results.

[ALFREDO]

I took it easy and went to the Thai Consular section in Vientiane yesterday late, arrived at about 2:15 PM to pick up my Passport.

I was the only customer at that moment, but other people went still in when I came out.

Got a Non Immigrant O without being the legally declared father of my sons.

They took copy of Birth certificates with my name in it, Copy Tabian Ban and copy of ID card of my GF-mother of the children.

That my children and my GF had been with me, helped the cause sure also. If it is necessary, I do not know.

Last time in Singapore 2011, I had only the Birth certificate with me, was alone, without my family, but that Thai Embassy wanted also a written paper confirming that I lived with my children and that I cared, paid for them.

I could not produce that and Non Immigrant O in Singapore was denied.

Also, there where much less people in the Singapore Thai Embassy, I felt much better in Vientiane and also better than in the also crowded Kuala Lumpur Thai Embassy.

Vientiane good, Kuala Lumpur, so la, la but Singapore,never again for me!

Danielsiam

Good possibility, you get a Non Immgrant O Visa in Vientiane, but if it is not possible to bring your GF and child with you, let your GF maybe write a statement on a paper with copy of ID card, that you live with your child and pay for her. And, to call in Vientiane before you go, let your GF speak, is also a good idea.

[Jayman]

Congrats Alfredo!

See guys, even those not even applying for a n on-imm O are getting them with a non legitimized relation to the child. Just need to convince the immigration folks you are not trying to take advantage of the system.

I hope that more of these worried fathers can relax a bit now.

[TIT]

Usual poorly thought out and archaic approach taken by the people in power here. I have a 3 year old Son who I have looked after everyday of his life and neither me or his Thai Mum have ever felt the need to marry with all the nonsense that comes with it (many people think this way now days and Thai's often don't get legally married) as we have been happily together for 6 years now. Like other people have pointed out there is no regard to multiple possible scenarios that could occur that would leave a once married father now seen as no longer eligible for the visa (death of Mother, Divorce, etc.)

There will be a lot of suffering Thai kids because of this nonsense but then as they are Look Kruengs maybe that's their aim. They are scared of them becoming too many in this country. Why would they want a Thai kid here who is at least encouraged to think for themselves and to question authority (especially in this country). That is exactly what they do not want. It's such a shame that such a great country just goes backwards instead of forwards. The day is coming for me and my family when the negatives will out weight the once many positives of choosing to invest and stay in Thailand.

[Mario2008]

You might want to read again.

There is nothing against fahters, the only requirement is that they are the legal father.

[mussen]

Being a father, I suppose I'd prefer it to be that you could apply for a non-o with just the birth certificate. But it is better this way, even having to go to court etc, to get it all done, rather than the government saying there will be no more visa's issued to fathers that have not married the mothers of their children. Reminder, this is 'Thailand'

[hanuman1]

I just got back from Vientiane.

For the past 6 years I got the 90-day non-O visa on the basis of having a Thai child using my son's birth certificate, his tabien baan and my passport picture page. 3 photocopies. That was all and it worked fine.

3 months ago when I applied with the same 3 things, they said that next time I should also bring a photocopy of my wife's ID card.

So this time, that's what I did, and also had the mother write a couple of lines on the photocopy saying that I was indeed the father of the child. Signed by her.

Bearing in mind the discussion on this board about needing to go through courts etc to legitimize fatherhood (I'm not legally married to the mother in Thailand, and he's 5 years old), I asked the woman at the Thai consulate if the documents I was presenting now would also be enough if I came back and applied again in 3 months and she said yes, they would be fine.

She did also say that it would be good if I included a photocopy of the mother's tabien baan, but I didn't ask if its absence would be a deal-breaker or not, and got the impression that it wasn't an absolute necessity, just an added plus point. Got the visa no problem.

So no panic about requiring lawyers, court orders etc either now or in the foreseeable future to get a non-O visa in Vientiane, at least.

Hope this helps someone.

[Jayman]

So glad to hear more confirmations that the sky is not falling after all.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Bottom line seems to be "it depends on the location". I am sure in most cases (Hull being a probably oft-abused exception) things will still be at the discretion of the official.

To be sure, especially as the situation is bound to change over time, and not only for immigration purposes, I would recommend those wanting to be able to take full responsibility for their kids over the long term go to the little bit of trouble necessary to ensure they are recognized legally as the father.

Regarding those with immigration-specific issues pending soon:

I always recommend emailing the desired office to get their current requirements for your situation and then you print out the email and bring it with you when you apply. Just the way I do it and I have never been disappointed by the results.

Very good advice

[Mario2008]

The birth certificate will not be enough anymore, but from the few reports so far with a letter from the mother asking for a visa and confirming you are taking care of the child, copy of mother's ID card and tabien baan as well as the child's, one should be fine at several consulates in the region.

[maprao]

You would qaulify based on having a Thai child.

The new rule only is that you need to be the LEGAL father, when married you are that automatically. The fact that the mother is dead doesn't change that.

Thanks Mario